The other big mare...

[joanied]

Saturday is a huge day for me...Zenyatta makes her come back...and she's giving a lot of weight. Will she remain unbeaten? I think she'll win this and then we can all begin thinking of the incredible match up between Zenyatta and Rachel A somewhere down the line...
Zenyatta:ThmbUp: :jump: :ThmbUp:

MIlady H'cap:

Gambler's Justice Garcia 113
Taste's Sis Sorenson 112
Allicansayiswow Talamo 113
Dawn After Dawn Rosario 116
Champagne Eyes Baze 114
Belair Sizzle Bejarano 114
Life is Sweet Gomez 122
Hot n Dusty Solis 110
ZENYATTA Smith 126

[OFFandRUNNING10]

i am very excited as well for this long anticipated race. i hope i never have to wait 7 months to see this horse run again. especially with a tease at the beginning of the month that we had. i hope she picks up right where she left off

[ghostyapper]

After owning Curlin last year with all the Big Brown nonsense, I hope jackson will grasp the concept that its the new kids job to search out the master, meaning he should not say "RA is racing here, if zenyatta wants her then show up," he needs to find where zenyatta is running and make it happen"

[CincyHorseplayer]

I think Zenyatta's crew will be the one's doing the ducking and they are the one's who need to step up.Zenyatta has yet to even run on dirt and won't leave the California synthetic,plus they probably envision the scenario they just saw in the Preakness with Zenyatta's running style=on unfavorable tactical scenario on an unfavorable surface.

Being the older,established runner,I think it's up to Zenyatta's connections to make somehting happen.Jackson has already stepped up to the plate by sloughing off an easy filly triple crown and taking on the boys.If they had wanted to challenge Rachel Alexandra they could have taken up the challenge by announcing they are running in the Fleur De Lis at Churchill on Stephen Foster day.I guarantee that because of the distance of the Belmont Jackson would have run that race without hesitation.Zenyatta and Co. are the ones taking the safe route.

[RHANDIE]

Zenyatta already blew the doors off Ginger Punch on dirt in the Apple Blossom.

[OFFandRUNNING10]

Zenyatta already blew the doors off Ginger Punch on dirt in the Apple Blossom.

agreed.... and 3 weeks ago she was planned to run on the dirt in kentucky... so by no means are they unwilling to run her on dirt.

[ghostyapper]

I think Zenyatta's crew will be the one's doing the ducking and they are the one's who need to step up.Zenyatta has yet to even run on dirt and won't leave the California synthetic,plus they probably envision the scenario they just saw in the Preakness with Zenyatta's running style=on unfavorable tactical scenario on an unfavorable surface.

Being the older,established runner,I think it's up to Zenyatta's connections to make somehting happen.Jackson has already stepped up to the plate by sloughing off an easy filly triple crown and taking on the boys.If they had wanted to challenge Rachel Alexandra they could have taken up the challenge by announcing they are running in the Fleur De Lis at Churchill on Stephen Foster day.I guarantee that because of the distance of the Belmont Jackson would have run that race without hesitation.Zenyatta and Co. are the ones taking the safe route.

Zenyatta's owners definately leave something to be desired when it comes to the "take on all challengers" attitude but it is the 3yo that must seek out the older horse, not vice versa.

If Rachel is as great as many on here talk her up to be, I don't want to see Jackson running her in restricted races over the summer. Ship to the west coast and beat zenyatta on her own track. Only then would I even consider mentioning her with the top 5 fillies of all time, let alone horses of all time.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Zenyatta already blew the doors off Ginger Punch on dirt in the Apple Blossom.

Yeah over a year ago.

And a track comes up wet and they scratch???

If they're scared,say just they're scared;)

[ghostyapper]

I guarantee that because of the distance of the Belmont Jackson would have run that race without hesitation.Zenyatta and Co. are the ones taking the safe route.

Its nice that you feel that strongly about it but it's pure speculation on your part. And what if Zenyatta's connections were to commit to that race and Rachel doesn't show? They ship their horse east for an extra 10k?

[CincyHorseplayer]

Zenyatta's owners definately leave something to be desired when it comes to the "take on all challengers" attitude but it is the 3yo that must seek out the older horse, not vice versa.

If Rachel is as great as many on here talk her up to be, I don't want to see Jackson running her in restricted races over the summer. Ship to the west coast and beat zenyatta on her own track. Only then would I even consider mentioning her with the top 5 fillies of all time, let alone horses of all time.

That's a bunch of hoo-ha.Spoken from a fellow who might be a little embittered after touting the filly to fail bigtime before the Preakness.

If an older mare is that scared of a 3yo filly that's weak.Jackson has already stepped up,manned up.Zenyatta's connection treat her with kid gloves.SHE has something to prove not RA.

[FenceBored]

agreed.... and 3 weeks ago she was planned to run on the dirt in kentucky... so by no means are they unwilling to run her on dirt.

Did she run, or was she scratched?

If she runs on dirt you can say that they are willing to run her on dirt.

If they enter her on dirt, and then scratch, you can't say they're willing to run her on dirt. You can only say they're willing to ENTER her on dirt.

I don't blame them for not wanting to take a chance of injury on an off track.
But, it doesn't seem to me that they are that willing to run her on dirt.

[ghostyapper]

That's a bunch of hoo-ha.Spoken from a fellow who might be a little embittered after touting the filly to fail bigtime before the Preakness.

Yes anyone that thinks she has more to prove to be top 5 like some already say she is, is just a bitter better from the preakness. Get real

And jackson has not stepped up yet when it comes to facing older since RA has only run against her own age. Again the new shooter must SEEK OUT the champion, not vice versa. They do not hand out championships in may so last I checked zenyatta is still the champ. Don't get all angry and bent outta shape, its the way the world works.

[FenceBored]

And jackson has not stepped up yet when it comes to facing older since RA has only run against her own age. Again the new shooter must SEEK OUT the champion, not vice versa. They do not hand out championships in may so last I checked zenyatta is still the champ. Don't get all angry and bent outta shape, its the way the world works.

Jackson has owned RA for what, 2 weeks, and successfully run her against colts in a Classic. He hasn't stepped up by facing older? What is his problem? :rolleyes:

[toussaud]

yawn...

zenyatta has 9 wins against crap 200k fields in socal. wake me up when she takes on a challenge for once.

[miesque]

yawn...

zenyatta has 9 wins against crap 200k fields in socal. wake me up when she takes on a challenge for once.

Zenyatta absolutely decimated Ginger Punch in the Apple Blossom at Oaklawn on dirt and Ginger Punch went on to win a few graded stakes races last year in New York. Zenyatta ran against everyone in her division and the result was always the same, she won, even when she ran on the dirt and one could argue that she was more impressive on the dirt.

[toussaud]

Zenyatta absolutely decimated Ginger Punch in the Apple Blossom at Oaklawn on dirt and Ginger Punch went on to win a few graded stakes races last year in New York. Zenyatta ran against everyone in her division and the result was always the same, she won, even when she ran on the dirt and one could argue that she was more impressive on the dirt.

yawn

[miesque]

yawn

Yawn?

Thank you very much for saving me time that I would have wasted in this thread attempting to have a proper debate with you on the subject.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

yawn
I'm sorry that you don't enjoy watching possibly the best horse in the world continue to run big races time after time. Who cares that she's been facing some weaker competition, her rivals will get tougher as the year rolls on. Would you rather she be retired and not run at all? Why even post on this thread if you could care less about her races? Just to make people mad?

[toussaud]

I'm sorry, is this where I was supposed to be im pressed?

Is she great? of course, no one is saying other wise.. but there is no drama in watching her beat the snot out of helpless socall mares

[Oaklawn]

Has Zenyatta won carrying 126 before? Who is her main competition to beat in the next one?

[Pace Cap'n]

Did she run, or was she scratched?

If she runs on dirt you can say that they are willing to run her on dirt.

If they enter her on dirt, and then scratch, you can't say they're willing to run her on dirt. You can only say they're willing to ENTER her on dirt.

I don't blame them for not wanting to take a chance of injury on an off track.
But, it doesn't seem to me that they are that willing to run her on dirt.

If she has raced on dirt in the past, then undoubtedly they are willing run on the dirt.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

Well at this moment, looking away from the TC, who would you consider to be among the world's best? Einstein? Any European horses? If Zenyatta was in a field that included Rachel Alexandra and Mine That Bird, she might go off as favorite. Don't penalize her for beating up on weak competition. She's beaten everything thrown at her so far and there doesn't appear to be any other superstar horses besides RA...and maybe MTB.

Why are there people still down on this horse? I don't understand.

[Derbyman32]

Well at this moment, looking away from the TC, who would you consider to be among the world's best? Einstein? Any European horses? If Zenyatta was in a field that included Rachel Alexandra and Mine That Bird, she might go off as favorite. Don't penalize her for beating up on weak competition. She's beaten everything thrown at her so far and there doesn't appear to be any other superstar horses besides RA...and maybe MTB.

Why are there people still down on this horse? I don't understand.

It looks like racing is in big trouble. I can't think of any colts that are that good right now. Where are all the million dollar babies at. It is kinda sad when all the potentially great horses are quickly retired or injured before the public even knows who they are.

[Derbyman32]

It is getting so bad I sometimes think of a 4 year old as too old to compete :bang:

[joanied]

Jackson has owned RA for what, 2 weeks, and successfully run her against colts in a Classic. He hasn't stepped up by facing older? What is his problem? :rolleyes:

I gotta say one thing here...we need to remember that RA has a new trainer...she won the Preakness and it took a little hutzpa for Jackson to enter her....but, Assmussen didn't train her...Wiggins did....and I only mention this because Jackson owned her for only 2 weeks. (of course, she may be such a good horse that she's easy to train:) )

[joanied]

Yeah over a year ago.

And a track comes up wet and they scratch???

If they're scared,say just they're scared;)

Cincy....I doubt they are scared...if you had a mare like Zenyatta, and she'd been away for 6 months, would you take a chance and run her back for the first time on an off track?

[joanied]

Zenyatta absolutely decimated Ginger Punch in the Apple Blossom at Oaklawn on dirt and Ginger Punch went on to win a few graded stakes races last year in New York. Zenyatta ran against everyone in her division and the result was always the same, she won, even when she ran on the dirt and one could argue that she was more impressive on the dirt.

Thank you, miesque:ThmbUp:

Does anyone ever consider :bang: this...when a horse is heads above the company he/she races against...the rest always seem like 'not much'.

[ghostyapper]

Jackson has owned RA for what, 2 weeks, and successfully run her against colts in a Classic. He hasn't stepped up by facing older? What is his problem? :rolleyes:

It's important to read every post in a thread, especially the one I am replying to before you comment on mine.

It is not Zenyatta's turn to step up and face rachel after her preakness win since all RA did was win a restricted race

[joanied]

yawn

We'll wake you up after Zenyatta :jump: wins the Milady on Saturday....have a nice snooze:sleeping:

[toussaud]

she should be in the pacific classic or the hollywood gold cup. and it's not like we have a steller group of older horses.


I mean it's great she's back, it is, but I'm not losing sleep over watching her rump home in the milady

[CincyHorseplayer]

Cincy....I doubt they are scared...if you had a mare like Zenyatta, and she'd been away for 6 months, would you take a chance and run her back for the first time on an off track?

I love Zenyatta.I thinks she's a truly good mare.She doesn't deserve to be a big fish in a small pond but in reality that is what she is.

Do we love this game???What is best for it then???

What Jackson did was great for it and we saw an 85 yr skid snapped.That's awesome for the game.

Kepping one of the top talented horses in training isolated in synthetic obscurity vs is just overrationalized fear IMO.

Great horses face the best competition at multiple venues.Zenyatta is a thing of beauty to watch but her connections have done zilch to change the stigma that she might be just a synthetic anomaly or just a great "Girl" horse.I wish she had a chance to shed those tags because I think she can.

And at this point,a wet track??facing a 3yo??C'mon...

The great horse who only races when the stars lineup,in the 3rd phase of the moon,and only on "Moondust"!!!;)

[Zenyatta To Crush]

As much as I love watching Zenyatta run, her owners, and probably Shirreffs too, seem like her winning streak is the most important thing in the world. They took the effort to ship her all the way to Churchill only to scratch, afraid that sloppy conditions might jeopardize her winning streak. Sure enough, the track was drying out fast over the day, and by the time her race was run, it was labeled as "good." And then the heavy favorite, One Caroline, fails to fire.

Zenyatta would've run that race with ease and if they weren't so afraid to take a minor risk of running her on a non-fast track, she wouldn't be in this situation of having to run against her stablemate, Life is Sweet, on Saturday. That's what Shirreffs gets forbeing afraid of the slop.

It sucks too because they've thought all along that she likes the dirt more than the synthetics, but now she'll most likely stay on the synthetics through the breeders cup and then retire. They better run her in the Classic if she remains undefeated...or maybe I should hope for a loss so that her connections loosen up a bit.

[DanG]

Plenty of $3 dollar bills to go on about in racing. We just saw a counterfeit in the 8th at Belmont today (Unbridled’s Heart), but a drive by on this monster is just something I don’t get. These are rare beasts…enjoy them while we can.

If this isn’t awesome grade-1 power; I’ve never seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X9171jxrlE

[toussaud]

Plenty of $3 dollar bills to go on about in racing. We just saw a counterfeit in the 8th at Belmont today (Unbridled’s Heart), but a drive by on this monster is just something I don’t get. These are rare beasts…enjoy them while we can.

If this isn’t awesome grade-1 power; I’ve never seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X9171jxrlE

what's the point of having a ferrari if you never take it out of your cul de sac? HOw can I possibly enjoy that?

[DanG]

what's the point of having a ferrari if you never take it out of your cul de sac? HOw can I possibly enjoy that?
Last I looked she was entered after flying across country. I don’t think they spend 10k just to scratch. Returning undefeated champions used to be commended; not criticized.

You sound as if these are Cal bred races; you want her…go get her.

You can’t deny Personal Ensign’s brilliance, but by your standards she “ducked” horse’s right and left by never passing the Mississippi. Off the top of my head at least 85% of her races were in one state.

I don’t get it…

[OFFandRUNNING10]

Yeah over a year ago.

And a track comes up wet and they scratch???

If they're scared,say just they're scared;)


their original target was the milady when she started training. she was training so well that they decided to move her start up earlier in the month and had the opportunity to in kentucky. if they didnt have full intentions of running her that day, please tell me why they would pay an entry fee and fly her to kentucky just to scratch her. obviously it wasnt their intention. they wanted to run her. they clearly saw the off track as a bit of an issue...whether it be performance or possible injury...and decided it would be in the horses best interest to pull her out and go back to the original plan. if this happened with any other horse you wouldnt think a thing of it but suddenly because its zenyatta you have to bash them and say they are scared to run. thats just assanine thinking really. why would they go through all that with the intention to scratch her. makes absolutely no sense.

[freehouse2002]

It's what I call the Azeri effect. Azeri was in the same position a few years back....won the Apple Blossom three years in a row. No respect until Lukas ran her to the ground. They ran her against the boys too late when she was not as in form as she used to be.

As of now, I too believe that Zenyatta should face the boys. However, to say that she is not great is blasphemy. She has done all asked of her, all pretty effortlessly. It sucks that two of my faves (azeri & zenyatta) get no respect.


freehouse2002

[toussaud]

no one said she isn't great. I am saying that this is not very exciting and I'm not going to be more impressed by her when she does what everyone knows she wil do in the milady

[Nikki1997]

Excellent post. *Off and Running 10) For those who have their noses out of joint because the connections don't run a horse the way THEY think they should, oh well.
Don't appreciate this mare. It's o.k. When she's off the track and raising babies, there's going to be a few of us that knew what a very, very special horse Zenyatta is.

[PaceAdvantage]

No respect until Lukas ran her to the ground. They ran her against the boys too late when she was not as in form as she used to be.What? You actually expected her to beat Ghostzapper, whom many consider to be the best older horse seen since God knows when?

A repectable fifth in the BC Classic behind Ghostzapper isn't exactly "running into the ground."

In fact, here's what Azeri accomplished with Lukas, after de Seroux mistakenly thought Azeri had injured herself and should be retired:

1st. Apple Blossom Handicap, G1
1st. Go For Wand Handicap (http:///wiki/Go_For_Wand_Handicap), G1
1st. Spinster Stakes, G1
2nd. Humana Distaff Handicap (http:///wiki/Humana_Distaff_Handicap), G1
2nd. Personal Ensign Handicap (http:///wiki/Personal_Ensign_Handicap), G1

[DrugS]

Laura de Seroux is Hal Wiggins with a vagina.

[freehouse2002]

What? You actually expected her to beat Ghostzapper, whom many consider to be the best older horse seen since God knows when?

A repectable fifth in the BC Classic behind Ghostzapper isn't exactly "running into the ground."

In fact, here's what Azeri accomplished with Lukas, after de Seroux mistakenly thought she had injured herself and was through:

1st. Apple Blossom Handicap, G1
1st. Go For Wand Handicap (/wiki/Go_For_Wand_Handicap), G1
1st. Spinster Stakes, G1
2nd. Humana Distaff Handicap (/wiki/Humana_Distaff_Handicap), G1
2nd. Personal Ensign Handicap (/wiki/Personal_Ensign_Handicap), G1
I know what she did when she was with Lukas. No I didn't expect her to win against Ghostzapper, but if you remember, they also tried her in one of the New York mile races....the exact race escapes me at the moment.

Anyhow, my point is that she won tons of grade ones, absolutely demolished a good field in the BC Distaff at Arlington, and was always given negative press for not "proving" herself. My argument is that she was way sharper when with DeSeroux and that Lukas got too ambitious at that point in her career. He ran her in races against the males that she didn't belong in, again at that point in her career.

I see the same thing happening with Zenyatta. People saying that she beats up on the same fillies and mares, that she won't travel, that she won't run on dirt. Well, she did run on dirt, and beat them handily. She has done everything thrown her way, and we've seen throughout the years that when you're the best, very few want to take on you.

That being said, I think the time is NOW for her to run against the boys, before she ends up going off form and no longer has it to excel at that level. Of course, this is all pending her start this Saturday, where I fully expect her to dominate as she has in the past, and that is now yawning matter.


freehouse2002

[toussaud]

Laura de Seroux is Hal Wiggins with a vagina.
i just spit my tea out on my laptop. thanks

[depalma113]

Zenyatta had better watch out for the Goose.

Georgeous Goose is coming after her at some point this season. If that horse takes to the synthetic like she runs on the turf, those two coming down the stretch will be fun to watch.

[ghostyapper]

1st. Apple Blossom Handicap, G1
1st. Go For Wand Handicap (http:///wiki/Go_For_Wand_Handicap), G1
1st. Spinster Stakes, G1
2nd. Humana Distaff Handicap (http:///wiki/Humana_Distaff_Handicap), G1
2nd. Personal Ensign Handicap (http:///wiki/Personal_Ensign_Handicap), G1

That looks impressive but you left out her 8th place finish in the met and 11 length defeat in the ogden phipps.

[OFFandRUNNING10]

no one said she isn't great. I am saying that this is not very exciting and I'm not going to be more impressed by her when she does what everyone knows she wil do in the milady

If you arent excited to see her run... then why even bother wasting your time posting in this thread? just to start controversy? A few of us are excited to see a good horse run... personally i wouldnt care who she is running against... she can run against my dog for all i care...im just looking foward to seeing the beautiful speciman run. what is the big deal that you feel you have to post about it being a pointless race and boring and all?!?

[toussaud]

because there is no sign outside the thread stating I can't offer my opinion. And i'm not the only one with the opinion either

[FenceBored]

It's important to read every post in a thread, especially the one I am replying to before you comment on mine.

It is not Zenyatta's turn to step up and face rachel after her preakness win since all RA did was win a restricted race


You need to reread what you wrote before responding to me. You said
Yes anyone that thinks she has more to prove to be top 5 like some already say she is, is just a bitter better from the preakness. Get real
And jackson has not stepped up yet when it comes to facing older since RA has only run against her own age. Again the new shooter must SEEK OUT the champion, not vice versa. They do not hand out championships in may so last I checked zenyatta is still the champ. Don't get all angry and bent outta shape, its the way the world works.
Jackson has shown a general willingness to step up, with both Curlin and now with Rachel. He has stepped up when it comes to running her against males. I have no doubt he will step up and run her against older horses in stiff competition when the time comes to do so. How many owners these days would rush to buy a horse, so they could run them back in the stiffest race of the horse's life in less than 2 weeks?

Seeming to knock Jess Jackson for not having run her against older horses in the first two weeks of his ownership made you sound more unreasonable about things than CincyHorseplayer, if that's possible. OK, maybe it's not possible. :)

As to Rachel winning only running in "restricted races." What does that circled "F" in front of every one of Zenyatta's races mean? Zenyatta has NEVER run in anything other than a restricted race. Claiming she's run in unrestricted races as compared to Rachel is just silly. The gender barrier in this country is a lot stronger than the 3 yr old/3 & up barrier.

Neither one needs to "seek out" the other, it's a distraction. Zenyatta will race where her connections want. Rachel will race where her connections want. If they face each other, fine. If they don't face each other, fine. As long as neither is deliberatly changing their schedule to avoid the other, I don't care. At the end of the year, the Eclipse voters will look at everyone's schedules and decide who's made a biggest impact.

[OFFandRUNNING10]

because there is no sign outside the thread stating I can't offer my opinion. And i'm not the only one with the opinion either

im not saying you cant offer your opinion. i just dont get the point. why does it matter that we are excited to see a talented and beautiful horse run? no one said anything about this being a big challenge for her or that this will move her up into the elite of all horses. we simply just said we are looking foward to seeing her come back and running. i am just struggling with the concept that you have to bring negativity to that.

[miesque]

On a side note, Zenyatta is one of those horses that you just really have to see at least once in person, she is really quite the specimen and the TV just doesn't do her justice. I consider myself fortunate to have seen her run in person twice and was able to see her at close range both in the mornings coming up to BC and also from inside the paddock when she was being saddled for the Vanity last year. Also, as far as I am concerned while it would be nice if Zenyatta tackled the boys, I am actually more interested in seeing her run against Rachel Alexandra. After Rachel Alexandra won the Oaks in dazzling style, I thought to myself, "Finally we have a filly that can push Zenyatta into giving a truly spectacular performance" because we all know Zenyatta only does what she has to do, she is one serious Diva, with a capital D, and you just have to take a look at her behavior before some of her races to see that.

[joanied]

On a side note, Zenyatta is one of those horses that you just really have to see at least once in person, she is really quite the specimen and the TV just doesn't do her justice. I consider myself fortunate to have seen her run in person twice and was able to see her at close range both in the mornings coming up to BC and also from inside the paddock when she was being saddled for the Vanity last year. Also, as far as I am concerned while it would be nice if Zenyatta tackled the boys, I am actually more interested in seeing her run against Rachel Alexandra. After Rachel Alexandra won the Oaks in dazzling style, I thought to myself, "Finally we have a filly that can push Zenyatta into giving a truly spectacular performance" because we all know Zenyatta only does what she has to do, she is one serious Diva, with a capital D, and you just have to take a look at her behavior before some of her races to see that.

I'm for both...facing the colts and hooking up with Rachel..WOW!! If Sherriff's had run Zenyatta just one tim last year with the colts, no doubt she would have beat them, and she'd been HotY...as much as I'm crazy about John S., I think they did a great injustice not running her against colts last year...
but, that's water under the bridge.
I haven't seen Zenyatta is person, and know I never will (I hope all of you that have the opportunity to SEE our best horses in person know how damned lucky you are...it kills me I never have that chance:( )...but just watching Z on TV, I can see her attitude, she has such great presence, and that little funny thing she does when she's walking...kinda kicks her front leg out, hard to explain it...but I love that...this mare knows who she is...all the great ones do, IMO. Yes, Diva is a good word to describe her...with a capitol D:)

[DanG]

On a side note, Zenyatta is one of those horses that you just really have to see at least once in person, she is really quite the specimen and the TV just doesn't do her justice. I consider myself fortunate to have seen her run in person twice and was able to see her at close range both in the mornings coming up to BC and also from inside the paddock when she was being saddled for the Vanity last year.

Also, as far as I am concerned while it would be nice if Zenyatta tackled the boys, I am actually more interested in seeing her run against Rachel Alexandra. After Rachel Alexandra won the Oaks in dazzling style, I thought to myself, "Finally we have a filly that can push Zenyatta into giving a truly spectacular performance" because we all know Zenyatta only does what she has to do, she is one serious Diva, with a capital D, and you just have to take a look at her behavior before some of her races to see that.
Well put!

People who watched her pre-race in last years BC said she won that race before it happened. While each mare was being saddled she walked by staring a hole in each of them doing her classic war dance. She is the queen and she knows it.

Friday daydreaming…Open Oaklawn for one weekend in July. Winner take all 9f match race of Zenyatta vs. Rachel and watch the ratings explode.

[joanied]

im not saying you cant offer your opinion. i just dont get the point. why does it matter that we are excited to see a talented and beautiful horse run? no one said anything about this being a big challenge for her or that this will move her up into the elite of all horses. we simply just said we are looking foward to seeing her come back and running. i am just struggling with the concept that you have to bring negativity to that.

Exactly:ThmbUp: ...when I started this thread, it was simply because finally, we get to see the Champ :jump: race again...been a damned long wait, and now I am counting the minutes until the Milady is run.

All the debate about racing against colts, away from CA, dirt, rubber, Rachel...it's all sidedressing right now...I (we) are just excited that she's running.
:)

[OFFandRUNNING10]

Exactly:ThmbUp: ...when I started this thread, it was simply because finally, we get to see the Champ :jump: race again...been a damned long wait, and now I am counting the minutes until the Milady is run.

All the debate about racing against colts, away from CA, dirt, rubber, Rachel...it's all sidedressing right now...I (we) are just excited that she's running.
:)

exactly,you got it! unfortunately, it seems like someone on every thread in here has to turn everything into a big controversial debate just because "they can"...kinda sad in my opinion

[joanied]

exactly,you got it! unfortunately, it seems like someone on every thread in here has to turn everything into a big controversial debate just because "they can"...kinda sad in my opinion

Well, ya know what they say about 'one in every crowd';) ...

but, having a debate/discussion is fine...that's one reason we all enjoy being a part of a forum like this one...but, yeah, it is kinda sad when the shine is taken off because one or two folks are hell bent on tossing in negative opinions on everything and anything they can....
"to each his own"... maybe this is appropriate: :p heehee!

[PaceAdvantage]

That looks impressive but you left out her 8th place finish in the met and 11 length defeat in the ogden phipps.As I said in the reply, "here's what Azeri ACCOMPLISHED under Lukas...."

I don't think 8th place finishes would count on a list of accomplishments...

[tucker6]

I don't think 8th place finishes would count on a list of accomplishments...
Unless it was a seven horse field. That would certainly be notable. :lol:

[joanied]

I read a little interview with John S. today...it was about running fillies against colts... basically, what it boiled down to was that John S thinks it's fine to run fillies against colts as long as the filly/mare is big and strong enough to withstand any 'bullying' she might encounter from the colts during a race...

hhhmmmmm...I'd have to think Zenyatta is sure big and strong enough to push back if she was bumped by a colt...hell, she'd prob'ly be bigger and stronger than most colts she would run against!!!

Maybe there is hope on the horizon that John & the Mosses will face the colts with her:)

[PaceAdvantage]

Isn't Mine That Bird on the small side? How does he cope? :lol:

[tucker6]

Isn't Mine That Bird on the small side? How does he cope? :lol:
Honestly, I get pieved that the fillies are disparaged due to the thinnest of reasons while colts of similar size/issues receive nary a word of disapproval. A mighty big double standard has developed. Why?? Are people afraid that fillies may show that they can beat the boys consistently?? Why don't we want our best facing off on the same track?? No wonder racing is F'd up.

[rastajenk]

I think the reason fillies don't run with colts very often is because the people around them know they aren't fast enough to win. It's the know-nothings like us that are always clamoring for some overhyped battle of the sexes, but the truth is, I repeat, they aren't fast enough to win. Especially at the highest levels. When the top fillies and mares start Beyering in the 115-120 range, I will change my stance, but as long as they earn in the 100-105 range, with rare forays up towards 110, you won't see as many of these hook-ups as you'd like.

[tucker6]

I think the reason fillies don't run with colts very often is because the people around them know they aren't fast enough to win. It's the know-nothings like us that are always clamoring for some overhyped battle of the sexes, but the truth is, I repeat, they aren't fast enough to win. Especially at the highest levels. When the top fillies and mares start Beyering in the 115-120 range, I will change my stance, but as long as they earn in the 100-105 range, with rare forays up towards 110, you won't see as many of these hook-ups as you'd like.
How do you then explain RA or Rags To Riches?? Was Rags fast enough for Curlin? I personally do not buy the Beyer system at some point. Yeah, it separates the claimers from the classic horses, but even that isn't foolproof. Look at MTB. He couldn't sniff a legit Beyer, and then pulls off 100+ numbers in the classics. Beyer has a hard time separating horses in a similar class. Then you're left to add other factors into the equation. I believe if more fillies would race colts, you'd see more "upsets". Once a filly gets to late 3 year old stage, I do believe the colts take over physically, so we agree at a certain age. For the triple crown I do not agree. Fillies can perform.

[rastajenk]

I certainly wasn't claiming that no filly could ever win against colts, because obviously, as you pointed out, it happens; so I don't have to "explain" anything. And I don't care if you respect the Beyer system or not; there are plenty of other ratings systems out there that provide similar insight: they are generally slower, up and down the class ladder. Most people realize this, especially the ones that race horses with the goal of earning money.

[WinterTriangle]

with rare forays up towards 110

Speaking of 110's, Indian Blessing is working bullets at SA .... smoked a 6F w/o this week. :jump:

[WinterTriangle]

I am actually more interested in seeing her run against Rachel Alexandra.


Rachel is only 3....by the time she's 4, she may bury the records of other fillies.

But put me down on the side of patience and letting RA develop. Pressure-coooking a young super-talent into "match races", whether it be against boys or girls, while exciting for us....is that the best thing to do with a still-developing talent?

Zenyatta got to mature a bit more and also get racing experience, and hence has developed "racing intelligence" where she's figured out how to toy with her prey, and had the likes of Ginger Punch and Hysterical Lady to "practice on" and the other 9 G1 winners she buried.

Problem for RA is that there really isn't any competition for her in her own gender/age group to practice against, she is so far above them. Still....."talent" is a great thing, but experience is still essential, don't you think?


It would be a fun race to watch, since the runinng styles are so different. The way Zenyatta pricks up her ears, storm-troops w/that big stride and devastating closing kick. Would RA get out front far enough that Z wouldn't catch her? Who knows. Z usually breaks kinda slow, but if you let her "get close", by the time you see her in the rearview mirror, she has already run past you. This is where experience comes in ......

I guess I just don't get the "rush" here. That's what I feel when people ask me if I think she should race in the BM or against Zenyatta. I'm sure she will go on to great things, but I don't need it to happen "tomorrow". :confused:

[joanied]

Isn't Mine That Bird on the small side? How does he cope? :lol:

There's an old saying..."Good things come in small packages"...
he copes because he has no idea he's smaller than most, and because he has a huge heart!!

He's just a bit over 15H....but Mike Smith said when you're on his back, he is wide in front...and I like his hip...it's way nice...so, he may not be a tall horse, but he has a well balanced, strong body. OH...and, obviously, a very good mind set.

[joanied]

Speaking of 110's, Indian Blessing is working bullets at SA .... smoked a 6F w/o this week. :jump:

Amazing:eek: , WT....I was just going to open a thread and ask if anyone knew what was going on with Indian Blessing...she's another one that has stolen my heart (and millions more, I hope)...
thanks for posting this news...I was going to ask about her for obvious reasons, but also because of this fillies vs colts thing...Indian Blessing ain't affriad of the boys...and niether is Baffert...if she'd have gotten a better post over in Dubia, she'd have won that race..
cannot:jump: wait for IB to run again...