Is Calvin Borel the best jockey of this generation?

[toussaud]

discuss. I think so.

[Relwob Owner]

discuss. I think so.


When you say "This Generation" what years do you mean? I dont think he is even the best jock right now. It is cliche and obvious, but I would take Gomez over Borel on any horse.....

[toussaud]

meaning of the jockies that surround him in these years.

If you had 1 jockey and you had a horse in a big race and while he had a shot he wasn't the odds on favoriate, I'd want calvin on him over any other jock

[lamboguy]

i know he won yesterday, but i am positive that if you asked steve asmussen about the ride he got on rachel alexander yesterday he would not have to many good things to say about it.

he must have had smoke coming out of his ears when he saw her fight with the horse on the lead in the first quarter, i am sure he would have prefered he take hold of her and let the drama horse back up to her.

but of course no one knows this horse better than calvin, so its tuff to criticise him after a win. i think the fight might make her even a tougher girl in the future. remember that the summer races are alot harder than the tripple crown. those are never going to be a cake walk, and its good to see that rachel can take a punch.

no doubt she is the best 3 yo i have ever seen, and i promise she will prove me right.

[toussaud]

but this isnt' about rachael it's about cavlin. I think if you gave him the mounts a gomez or a Prado gets on a daily basis he'd make alot of people look elsewhere for mounts.

[garyoz]

discuss. I think so.
:lol: Geez a lot of trolling on this board lately. At least several dozen other jocks would have won the Preakness yesterday onboard RA. Probably even Jackie Davis.

[stu]

Calvin, like I am, is a member of Generation X. Born in Nov 1966.

Generation X is roughly those born between 1964 and 1974.

Q: Which other jockeys fall in this generation?
A: Mike Smith, Kent Desormeaux, Garrett Gomez, Robby Albarado, John Velazquez, Eibar Coa, Corey Lanerie, Wesley Ward, Edgar Prado, Stewart Elliot, Alex Solis, Corey Nakatani, Donna Barton, Victor Espinoza, Shane Sellers, Rene Douglas, and Patrick Valenzuela to name too many

Just want to make sure that we are comparing the right jockeys with each other

[Relwob Owner]

but this isnt' about rachael it's about cavlin. I think if you gave him the mounts a gomez or a Prado gets on a daily basis he'd make alot of people look elsewhere for mounts.


Ask yourself t...

Would you have asked this before the Derby? I think the answer is yes and you are letting these two rides cloud your overall vision of which jock has done the best overall in this generation


I think Borel is a good jock but I dont really love jocks that consistently stay on the rail....I think they get horses beat a lot and also, it isnt as effective on turf....Corey Nakatani comes to mind

[toussaud]

Ask yourself t...

Would you have asked this before the Derby? I think the answer is yes and you are letting these two rides cloud your overall vision of which jock has done the best overall in this generation


I think Borel is a good jock but I dont really love jocks that consistently stay on the rail....I think they get horses beat a lot and also, it isnt as effective on turf....Corey Nakatani comes to mind


so..

ask myself a question, and if the answer to the question is one answer, then I am ovbiously wrong.

okay.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I love Calvin Borel, and I wish him nothing but the best, but "best jockey of this generation?" Please. At his peak, J.D. Bailey would go 500 races without making a mistake.

[toussaud]

but baily is not in this generation. he's been retired for some years now.

[Relwob Owner]

so..

ask myself a question, and if the answer to the question is one answer, then I am ovbiously wrong.

okay.

That is cute, especially considering how challenged your spelling tends to be on a regular basis----you know what I meant, so your answer is?

[lamboguy]

but baily is not in this generation. he's been retired for some years now.

bottom line is that calvin like other humans has good days and bad days. he gave mtb the ride of his life and got him set up for the preakness.

he gave rachel a rotten ride and she still won, that just goes to show you how good the filly is. if he didn't give mtb the greatest ride of all time we would not be talking about that horse today!

[Relwob Owner]

bottom line is that calvin like other humans has good days and bad days. he gave mtb the ride of his life and got him set up for the preakness.

he gave rachel a rotten ride and she still won, that just goes to show you how good the filly is. if he didn't give mtb the greatest ride of all time we would not be talking about that horse today!


LG,

What was rotten about the RA ride?

[juanepstein]

Win % (In-The-Money %)14% (39%)

nice numbers

hes got cojones the size of coconuts which is always a good thing.

but best of the generation- no

bejarano is better. bejarano knows where he is at all the time and has the best timing.

[Relwob Owner]

Win % (In-The-Money %)14% (39%)

nice numbers

hes got cojones the size of coconuts which is always a good thing.

but best of the generation- no

bejarano is better. bejarano knows where he is at all the time and has the best timing.


I agree most of the time but his ride in the Derby this year on Papa Clem was terrible

[lamboguy]

[QUOTE=Relwob Owner]LG,


calvin made poor judgement. he should have waited for all that drama to come back to him. he used up to much horse in the begining of the race and didn't save anything for later in the race.

as soon as he got off the horse he said if they went around again the bird couldn't get him. don't believe one word of that, he knew he took to much of a chance doing what he did, it was uncalled for.

[Saratoga_Mike]

but baily is not in this generation. he's been retired for some years now.

Oh, your rule is currently riding, not retired for even a few yrs. Got it. None of them stand out then.

[toussaud]

yes, bailey would runcircles around borel I agree. but as far as who is racing now.. borel is the one jockey who I think if I had a 10 to 1 shot in a big race he could get him or her home. he takes chances that others won't

[Relwob Owner]

[QUOTE=Relwob Owner]LG,


calvin made poor judgement. he should have waited for all that drama to come back to him. he used up to much horse in the begining of the race and didn't save anything for later in the race.

as soon as he got off the horse he said if they went around again the bird couldn't get him. don't believe one word of that, he knew he took to much of a chance doing what he did, it was uncalled for.


I would watch the race again....I dont think he used her much at all early...looked like she was doing most of it on her own...

[Relwob Owner]

yes, bailey would runcircles around borel I agree. but as far as who is racing now.. borel is the one jockey who I think if I had a 10 to 1 shot in a big race he could get him or her home. he takes chances that others won't


He does and sometimes, that is great, sometimes, that gets him beat

[Saratoga_Mike]

[QUOTE=Relwob Owner]LG,


calvin made poor judgement. he should have waited for all that drama to come back to him. he used up to much horse in the begining of the race and didn't save anything for later in the race.

as soon as he got off the horse he said if they went around again the bird couldn't get him. don't believe one word of that, he knew he took to much of a chance doing what he did, it was uncalled for.

I sort of agree with what you're saying, so you think she would have rated successfully?

[Golf and Horses]

Oh, your rule is currently riding, not retired for even a few yrs. Got it. None of them stand out then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toussaud
but baily is not in this generation. he's been retired for some years now.

If currently riding is the criterion... Gomez hands down. However, Bailey has been retired only 3 years and Borel has 4700+ wins... so it's not as if he is some new kid on the scene... I'd take Bailey over Borel any day of the week.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Quote:
Originally Posted by toussaud
but baily is not in this generation. he's been retired for some years now.

If currently riding is the criterion... Gomez hands down. However, Bailey has been retired only 3 years and Borel has 4700+ wins... so it's not as if he is some new kid on the scene... I'd take Bailey over Borel any day of the week.

An erudite poster.

[juanepstein]

I agree most of the time but his ride in the Derby this year on Papa Clem was terrible

yeah

there was a ton of terrible rides. wasnt perty.

[lamboguy]

[QUOTE=lamboguy]

I sort of agree with what you're saying, so you think she would have rated successfully?

not only do i think so, but i think the trainer might say the same thing.

i am just calling this the way i see it, calvin rode the kentucky derby like piccaso painted a picture, he rode rachel like a chinaman.

[Saratoga_Mike]

[QUOTE=Saratoga_Mike]

not only do i think so, but i think the trainer might say the same thing.

i am just calling this the way i see it, calvin rode the kentucky derby like piccaso painted a picture, he rode rachel like a chinaman.

Well no one will ever accuse you of being PC - that I can gaurantee.

[bishlap]

When you say "This Generation" what years do you mean? I dont think he is even the best jock right now. It is cliche and obvious, but I would take Gomez over Borel on any horse.....
Gomez is OVERRATED!!!! Runs out on so many faves it's not worth betting him. Yes he's overbet, not his fault, but that's why he's overrated. Best jockey, there's no definitive answer, it's all about who makes your bankroll grow. I have no fave, but just to back up my argument, I've made more money and hit more big exotics betting Jose Espinoza than any jock in my life.(I go back to Damascus)..and nobody would mention him in the same breath as Gomez, but i'd take Jose any day over Mr. HYPE.

[toussaud]

i think i am partial to borel becuase he has kicked home a plenty 8-12-15 to 1 bombs on weekly basis. some of them i had money on.

[thespaah]

[QUOTE=Relwob Owner]LG,


calvin made poor judgement. he should have waited for all that drama to come back to him. he used up to much horse in the begining of the race and didn't save anything for later in the race.

as soon as he got off the horse he said if they went around again the bird couldn't get him. don't believe one word of that, he knew he took to much of a chance doing what he did, it was uncalled for.
I don't get it. Ok what would YOU have done?
And don't tell us what he "knew". That's hearsay.
How the hell can you criticize a winning ride?
Is that not the goal?
Oh I get it you're a former journeyman rider and your opinions appear in many racing publications.
I read her PP's. RA is on the lead at the first or second call of every victory.
So what is it you'd have done differently?

[lamboguy]

i think i am partial to borel becuase he has kicked home a plenty 8-12-15 to 1 bombs on weekly basis. some of them i had money on.

and he will continue to do just that, he is good. a friend of mine hit the exacta in the derby for $5.00, wheeling calvin top and bottom. he has been betting calvin in churhill downs every single race for 5 years now with some sort of a progressive system. he has won some big money doing it.

he rides longshots better than favorites for some reason.

a week before the kentucky derby he didn't even know the name of the horse he was signed up to ride..

[smokinjoe@bp]

Gomez is OVERRATED!!!! Runs out on so many faves it's not worth betting him. Yes he's overbet, not his fault, but that's why he's overrated. Best jockey, there's no definitive answer, it's all about who makes your bankroll grow. I have no fave, but just to back up my argument, I've made more money and hit more big exotics betting Jose Espinoza than any jock in my life.(I go back to Damascus)..and nobody would mention him in the same breath as Gomez, but i'd take Jose any day over Mr. HYPE.

i agree gomez very overrated. just sitting here trying to figure out why people love him so much. i could name 10 other riders i would choose before gomez.

[Hajck Hillstrom]

Q: Which other jockeys fall in this generation?
A: Mike Smith, Kent Desormeaux, Garrett Gomez, Robby Albarado, John Velazquez, Eibar Coa, Corey Lanerie, Wesley Ward, Edgar Prado, Stewart Elliot, Alex Solis, Corey Nakatani, Donna Barton, Victor Espinoza, Shane Sellers, Rene Douglas, and Patrick Valenzuela to name too many

Just want to make sure that we are comparing the right jockeys with each otherUhhh, I think the last time Wesley rode a horse George Sr. was in office. He won the Eclipse as an apprentice, but he started training shortly after.

[Relwob Owner]

Gomez is OVERRATED!!!! Runs out on so many faves it's not worth betting him. Yes he's overbet, not his fault, but that's why he's overrated. Best jockey, there's no definitive answer, it's all about who makes your bankroll grow. I have no fave, but just to back up my argument, I've made more money and hit more big exotics betting Jose Espinoza than any jock in my life.(I go back to Damascus)..and nobody would mention him in the same breath as Gomez, but i'd take Jose any day over Mr. HYPE.


You are saying he is overrated from a betting perspective....I can agree with that because he is a good bet against. However as a skilled jock, what more does he have to do to prove he is the best right now?

As far as hype goes, can you check out Gomez and his performance last year and tell me how he is Mr. Hype?

[Relwob Owner]

i agree gomez very overrated. just sitting here trying to figure out why people love him so much. i could name 10 other riders i would choose before gomez.


Why people like him so much?-earnings leader the last three years, I believe.


10 other riders over the guy who has been on top for three years? Doesnt seem like a good bet

[Grits]

This net you're casting is mighty wide. You have a major jockey colony on each coast and one in the midwest. New York, Kentucky, and SoCal. (Of course, you have smaller ones throughout as well.)

In my opinion, no one knows or rides Churchill Downs better than Calvin Borel. And its been this way since his mentor, Pat Day retired. And I include in this, Theriot and LeParoux, who are not of Calvin's generation as they're much younger. Same goes for Bejarano.

This is not to say, though, that Calvin is far, far better a rider than some others who make their home on either coast. These men all converge in the same jock's room when Keeneland opens, and when Derby Week comes around. Then, after its all behind them, they go back to their respective circuits.

I don't think Calvin has any burning desire to pick up his tack, and leave Kentucky. Why would he? Then too, I don't see Johnny V, or Edgar leaving NY either. Gomez, he's another story. Seems like he moves every time the rent comes due.

Talent abounds among these men. We praise their skill one day, no make that--one race--turn around thirty minutes later, and cuss 'em like dogs. Some of you, may even treat your dogs better than you do these guys. LOLOL

I don't think anyone doubts, or needs to be sold on Calvin's gift as rider. The fine thing is--you'll get the same work from him whether he's on Bird, Rachael, or a 20K claimer running in the day's last race. There are more than a few jocks one cannot say this about.

The same comparison could have been made between Day and Bailey. On a coin toss, I would've taken either. They were both, that good. And Day, like Calvin, would ride in the last race. Bailey, not a chance. In the shower after the feature, looking at his tailights before the next post. Again, they rode different circuits.

[toussaud]

jockies are like presidents. they are always better when they are not around anymore.

[stu]

Uhhh, I think the last time Wesley rode a horse George Sr. was in office. He won the Eclipse as an apprentice, but he started training shortly after.

i just wanted to see who was really reading all of the responses :)

[redshift1]

Leparoux is as good as anyone. Second in total money won and does not get the best horses to ride yet.

[JustRalph]

nobody has bigger balls that Calvin.............

I miss Eddie D............even though I didn't get to see him that much......he sure had timing

P4ry3E-tXwg

[SMOO]

Why people like him so much?-earnings leader the last three years, I believe.


10 other riders over the guy who has been on top for three years? Doesnt seem like a good bet:ThmbUp:

Gomez also broke Bailey's stakes wins record for one year, thats a lot of big races won.

[fmolf]

my personal theory about why he does so well in the big races and i have said it before and been lambasted by others here on a different post is that he is the only one not afraid of making a mistake and costing his mount all hope of the win...if you watch all the other jocks in the big races ..its all about doing the safe thing...swinging wide.....laying back off the pace....calvin kept rachel on the pace away from traffic and won the race...good tactics...i am not a big calvin fan i think as an everyday rider i would take gomez/dominguez/desormeaux/leparoux/talamo/r.baze/j.rose/dettori...its all subjective.....every track, every meet has its best riders and its journeyman/woman most jockey colonies have three or four really good riders and the rest journeyman/woman....as always it comes down to who gets on the best horses so to me a jockeys roi is most important...because it means he brings in more longer priced horses!

[Relwob Owner]

:ThmbUp:

Gomez also broke Bailey's stakes wins record for one year, thats a lot of big races won.


You got that right....I am partial because I really like him and his story....he hit rock bottom in 2002 with a drug issue and worked his way back to the top.....in my opinion, his comeback story has not been covered enough, passed over for coverage of all the negative stuff.

I dont know of any other sport where the leader in earnings for three years could ever be considered overhyped....

[Robert Goren]

For what it is worth I think Gomez is the best by quite a wide margin. Leparoux is a clear second. The picture for third is a bit muddled. Borel is the mix. When he is getting live horse he does seam to win a bit more than he should. Generally top jockeys are over bet. Gomez is. But I still believe that he increases a horse's chances of winning more than any other jockey.

[dvlander]

I think Calvin is a good jock who is on a great roll lately. Within a couple years, he'll go on a cold streak like all jocks do. Once that happens, some owners may not throw the premium mounts his way temporarily.

I'm not dissing him at all. I think he's a very good rider. Likely, he made all the difference in the Derby but I think any number of jocks could have won on Rachel in the Preakness.

Dale

[horses721]

If you play Borel enough, you will find he gets into a lot of trouble getting shutoff on the rail. He does good on longshots because jockeys don't worry about shutting him off on the rail which is his only/main riding style. How many jockeys in the derby do you think were worried about Mine That Bird? If MTB was a real threat, the other jockeys would have been aware of not letting Borel use his usual rail riding tactics and would have tried to shut him off. The other jockeys were not going to let MTB get a dream trip again in the Preakness. I'm sure if Borel rode MTB in the Preakness, he would have got shutoff on the rail like he usually does and people would once again realize he is a good jockey but not a great one. Play him enough and you will see what I mean.

[Wickel]

Gomez is far and away the best right now--great mind, aggressive, fearless. If Pioneerof the Nile skips the Belmont, which he most likely will, here's hoping Pletcher has the smarts to put Gomez back on Dunkirk. Prado gave this horse such a horrendous ride in the Derby that it pains me to think about it. The Big Gray will cruise with Gomez.

After Gomez, I still think P Val has to be given his due as one of the best, also Bejarano an JR Velasquez. Meanwhile, jocks like Rosario and Lezcano are waiting in the wings.

[Cratos]

nobody has bigger balls that Calvin.............

I miss Eddie D............even though I didn't get to see him that much......he sure had timing

P4ry3E-tXwg

You should be commended for your recognition of Eddie Delahoussaye timing talent. Today the jockey that I see with that sort of talent is Javier Castellano.

However when it comes to jockeys and horses on the racetrack I believe in the adage that says “jockeys lose races and horses win races.”

I realize that there is an exception to any adage and the interpretation of the aforementioned adage is that a good jockey can’t make a bad horse win, but a bad jockey can make a good horse lose.

[RHANDIE]

discuss. I think so.


He's not even the best jockey in Kentucky, I would take Garrett Gomez among some others any day of the week over him, he's had the big fortune of landing 2 hot horses right now, by the end of the year he'll still be way behind Gomez in earnings, Gomez does it everywhere on several horses, no question who I would prefer in a big race, not even close.

[RHANDIE]

Why people like him so much?-earnings leader the last three years, I believe.


10 other riders over the guy who has been on top for three years? Doesnt seem like a good bet


The thing about Gomez is he is so consistent, his stats last year were 21% turf, 21% dirt, 21% synthetic. There is no better finisher than him in a race and he is very intelligent on horseback, he can tell you how everything unfolded with every horse in the race, yeah he loses on a lot of chalk, but the fact is most of the horses are probably chalk because he is on them, same thing happened with Bailey and any top tier rider, some people just bet jockeys, the thing is theres a reason the top trainers want the top jockeys, they didn't win the lottery to get the mounts they got, they all had to initially prove themselves, and in Gomez case, he had to do it twice, when he came back from his drug problem in late 2004, he was actually having to ride at Fairplex, it's amazing how quickly he went from the absolute rock bottom, all the way up to the top of the heap, I really admire his dedication and commitment, he could have just as easily been another PVAL or Antley, I commend the guy.

[samyn on the green]

Calvin Borel 1981 at the bush tracks. (http://www.maryjeanwall.com/wallblog/?page_id=742&preview=true)

[JWBurnie]

I don't disagree; Gomez is a great rider, no doubt. However, please look at who he rides for...first call. Look at the sale prices and breeding on the horses he is riding. Personally, I find it difficult to compare riders based on earnings and riding statistics w/o also including a number of other factors (or R. Baze's name will start being thrown around). We're talking true riding talent. It's like comparing Cigar to Curlin solely based on earnings. Cigar, hands down.

Over the past couple years...does Gomez have the lowest avg. true odds of any rider in stake races? What is his ROI?
Throwing a name out there...Mario "Pino on the Greeno"...if he got the opportunity to ride the same horses that Gomez does, I'd bet he would be in the top 10, maybe five in nation.

[ManeMediaMogul]

Calvin is the jockey of the week.

There is no denying that he is a super guy, but...

He is not the best jockey of his generation or any other generation.

[joanied]

Calvin Borel 1981 at the bush tracks. (http://www.maryjeanwall.com/wallblog/?page_id=742&preview=true)

I ain't even gonna try to pick the best jockey of this X generation...but, samyn...thanks for that link...it was fun to read and see the photos:)

[RHANDIE]

I don't disagree; Gomez is a great rider, no doubt. However, please look at who he rides for...first call. Look at the sale prices and breeding on the horses he is riding. Personally, I find it difficult to compare riders based on earnings and riding statistics w/o also including a number of other factors (or R. Baze's name will start being thrown around). We're talking true riding talent. It's like comparing Cigar to Curlin solely based on earnings. Cigar, hands down.

Over the past couple years...does Gomez have the lowest avg. true odds of any rider in stake races? What is his ROI?
Throwing a name out there...Mario "Pino on the Greeno"...if he got the opportunity to ride the same horses that Gomez does, I'd bet he would be in the top 10, maybe five in nation.



Well, here in lays the question, it's like the chicken and the egg, your right, Gomez does ride for racings elite and all that, but why exactly? It's not like they all don't start from ground zero, and in Gomez's case he had to start twice from the bottom, the reason is some riders like any top athlete's have the propensity to rise to the occasion on racings big days, they become the much sought after money riders, I can see where as a handicapper you have your own idea of " value" riders, and of that Gomez is now at this point in his career certainly not that, but from an owners standpoint they don't want a value rider, they want whom ever they consider to be the best rider, hence all the top mounts being thrown to him, sure there are less known and mid level riders that are all excellent riders, but the top ten riders and most certainly the top 5 riders have proven over time their consistency to bring in the money, thats why they get the choice mounts, it's really as simple as that. In the end it's a given that cream rises to the top, and if you truly are as talented as the top riders than you will get the mounts, Russell Baze has proven over the years that he is the kingpin of a lackluster riding colony, to be the best you have to beat the best, thats why Jerry Hollendorfer, his main man, is currently waiting on Garrett Gomez to decide if he wants to ride Chocolate Candy and not Russell Baze, Baze has way more wins than Garrett, but Garrett dwarfs him in stakes wins, he delivers significantly more at the top level, thats the difference between the class levels, same as horses you have Grade 1 horses and allowance horses.

[Derbyman32]

Going back to Calvin Borel and is he the best jockey of the generation. While at certainly like Calvin but I don't really think he is the best jockey of the generation. He is on a roll right now and is the jockey of the year probably. I never really had a "best jockey" pick and I think it would be really hard to name just one. Calvin has made some great rides, especially at Churchill but I think he really fits MTB style of running and he looks great riding Rachel this year but he is very familiar with her and her style of running. I hope he continues to have a great year because I think the publicity he has brought to racing really is priceless.

[jasperson]

I think Calvin is a good jock who is on a great roll lately. Within a couple years, he'll go on a cold streak like all jocks do. Once that happens, some owners may not throw the premium mounts his way temporarily.

I'm not dissing him at all. I think he's a very good rider. Likely, he made all the difference in the Derby but I think any number of jocks could have won on Rachel in the Preakness.

Dale

When did any top owners and trainers use Borel? I don't know of any top trainers that he is their go to jockey. I think Borel is the top jockey right now. Whether he is better than Jerry Bailey is another question. As an ex harness horse owner trainer and driver he use all the right moves that I would do on a horse. He reminds me of the best 1/2 driver that I every saw and that was Buddy Reed. He could win on the front end he could win from behind and when he had horse with a bad post he would not use his horse until he got a break of some kind. Back in the 50's we didn't tri and supers but in watching week after week he would being in a horse for 2nd or 3rd that I didn't think had a chance to be in the money. Borel does the same thing. He the go to guy for Bowman, Naufger, and he brother Cecil. Boy he sure get the Cream of the crop of trainers. There is no doubt in my mind that if I had a horse I would want Borel on him over any other jockey riding today.
Jack

[jasperson]

i know he won yesterday, but i am positive that if you asked steve asmussen about the ride he got on rachel alexander yesterday he would not have to many good things to say about it.

he must have had smoke coming out of his ears when he saw her fight with the horse on the lead in the first quarter, i am sure he would have prefered he take hold of her and let the drama horse back up to her.

but of course no one knows this horse better than calvin, so its tuff to criticise him after a win. i think the fight might make her even a tougher girl in the future. remember that the summer races are alot harder than the tripple crown. those are never going to be a cake walk, and its good to see that rachel can take a punch.

no doubt she is the best 3 yo i have ever seen, and i promise she will prove me right.
Ok you are riding Rachel and you try to take her back off the lead, but Big Drama takes back along with you. Are you going kill her momentum and take back to the field? Why is getting checked such a big deal? It is because it kill big M and that is one of the worst things that can happen in a race. It easy to criticise a rider or driver after the race but when you are out there and have to make a oecision in a couple of seconds it is a lot different.
Jack

[Alyblakester]

Borel has been underappreciated I think in the past. He won on Street Sense a couple of years ago in the national spotlight but this is obviously his time in the sun and breakout year. I've watched him ride for a very long time. Sure not everyone of his rides pans out but whose does? Jerry Bailey may have been the most perfect race rider of the last 20 years. Many top riders have taken time to develop and gain acceptance. Borel is finally accepted for his true horse savvy. His heart is golden I assure you.

[JustRalph]

If you play Borel enough, you will find he gets into a lot of trouble getting shutoff on the rail. He does good on longshots because jockeys don't worry about shutting him off on the rail which is his only/main riding style. How many jockeys in the derby do you think were worried about Mine That Bird? If MTB was a real threat, the other jockeys would have been aware of not letting Borel use his usual rail riding tactics and would have tried to shut him off. The other jockeys were not going to let MTB get a dream trip again in the Preakness. I'm sure if Borel rode MTB in the Preakness, he would have got shutoff on the rail like he usually does and people would once again realize he is a good jockey but not a great one. Play him enough and you will see what I mean.

Then what the hell happen when he was on the Derby Favorite "Street Sense" ???? I think you give the jocks way too much credit for worrying about the other guy...........

[Hank]

i know he won yesterday, but i am positive that if you asked steve asmussen about the ride he got on rachel alexander yesterday he would not have to many good things to say about it.

he must have had smoke coming out of his ears when he saw her fight with the horse on the lead in the first quarter, i am sure he would have prefered he take hold of her and let the drama horse back up to her.

but of course no one knows this horse better than calvin, so its tuff to criticise him after a win. i think the fight might make her even a tougher girl in the future. remember that the summer races are alot harder than the tripple crown. those are never going to be a cake walk, and its good to see that rachel can take a punch.

no doubt she is the best 3 yo i have ever seen , and i promise she will prove me right.

If RA had drawn better I would agree 100% ,But given her post He had to send. You did mean best 3yo filly right?

[Zippy Chippy]

If you talk about him being the best of the generation you have to ask yourself if you would have considered him the best lets say.. a month ago.. Id say a month ago you would have said he was a good/very good jockey. By riding argueably the best horse in the Derby and Preakness I dont think you can go from good to the best.

[jasperson]

If you talk about him being the best of the generation you have to ask yourself if you would have considered him the best lets say.. a month ago.. Id say a month ago you would have said he was a good/very good jockey. By riding argueably the best horse in the Derby and Preakness I dont think you can go from good to the best. Every trainer think so highly of him that the only ride he could get is on a horses most comentators said should have been in a pony ride in stead of the derby.

[pandy]

:lol: Geez a lot of trolling on this board lately. At least several dozen other jocks would have won the Preakness yesterday onboard RA. Probably even Jackie Davis.

You're right.

[justin13892002]

Not sure if he is the best but....

Wins Oaks
Wins Derby
Wins Preakness


If he wins the Belmont?


In my opinion, he is the SMARTEST jockey as far as bias and trips go!
But not THE BEST!

[pandy]

Rail riders like Borel, and there are few, often get blocked. So for everyone of those amazing rail wins, you also end up pulling your hair out when they get blocked on a horse that could've won easily on the outside. I've seen Ramon Dominguez get blocked on the rail several times on horses that would've won had he went outside coming into the stretch. That's the main reason why most jockeys prefer to go outside in dirt races. Turf racing is different.

[horses721]

Then what the hell happen when he was on the Derby Favorite "Street Sense" ???? I think you give the jocks way too much credit for worrying about the other guy...........
When they straightened out for home, street sense was in second place. Only 1 horse could block him. All I can say is play him on a regular basis. He will get shutoff so many times that you will lose money playing him.

By the way, do you think the other jockeys were aware of MTB in the Preakness and did there best not to give him another dream trip on the rail or was it just a coincidence that he couldn't get through on the inside like he did in the derby?

[Bobzilla]

Andy Beyer wrote a good piece about Calvin Borel and his ride on RA this past weekend. He praised Calvin for not being tentative once out of the gate ensuring that she would be able to establish a good early position. Anyway, if anyone is interested:

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=103870&subs=0&arc=0

[46zilzal]

No

Good but not best

Brilliant riders make a horse lengths better like a Laffit or Shoe

[andymays]

Calvin Borel is one of those people in sports that can rise to the occasion!

Calvin is a better than average Jock but a cut below the best on a daily basis. He performs better than normal when the stakes are the highest.

Barry Bonds or A-Rod are examples of people who seem to wilt when the stakes are the highest.

[smokinjoe@bp]

Why people like him so much?-earnings leader the last three years, I believe.


10 other riders over the guy who has been on top for three years? Doesnt seem like a good bet

gomez gets nothing but the best,all he has to do is hang on lol. i would bet my left nut if you put him against 10 jocks all on horses with similar numbers like they do in jock challenges he would not win. a guys that wins at lil above 20 percent with the stock he rides i call average.

[garyoz]

Had to get this one back at the top of the forum. Calvin comes to the Big Apple, makes a premature move and is undressed (and unmasked) by the Big Boys. Whether it is Kent on Summer Bird or Johnny V. on Dunkirk he was way outclassed.

[FenceBored]

Had to get this one back at the top of the forum. Calvin comes to the Big Apple, makes a premature move and is undressed (and unmasked) by the Big Boys. Whether it is Kent on Summer Bird or Johnny V. on Dunkirk he was way outclassed.

I'll grant that Kent schooled him, but a neck (Johnny V.) is undressing him?
Please.

And really, do you really want to go here? Based on the DRF Belmont jockey standings through June 2, there were 6 of Belmont's top 10 jockeys in this race. Borel (3rd) got beat by 2, he beat 4 (Maragh 7th, Lezcano 10th, Prado 8th, Garcia 4th). That ain't unmasked in my book. That's showing he belongs.

[garyoz]

Don't get the standings stuff. What is that supposed to prove? Outfinishing in one race when you have the odds-on favorite.

As far as Dunkirk is concerned, JV set a decent pace, took advantage of a modest track bias, and still outfinished what is supposed to be the fastest horse and big-time closer.

[toussaud]

michael jordan once missed a game winning shot. he ovbiously isn't deserving of all the praise he gets.

[judd]

:ThmbDown:

[Valuist]

Borel is a good rider and he is probably one of the smarter ones but by no means is he the best of the generation. The guy that beat him yesterday (Desormeoux) is definitely better. Borel went head to head how many times against Pat Day and I don't know if he ever won a race meet where Day rode the entire time. I doubt Borel would beat Bejarano, Gomez, Velazquez or Dominguez if he rode against them on a daily basis. Bailey and Stevens are relatively recently retired so I'd consider them part of the generation and he wasn't better than either of those two guys either.

[Stillriledup]

Congratulations Calvin, well done!

:ThmbUp:

5,000th win.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Congratulations Calvin, well done!

:ThmbUp:

5,000th win.

You just couldn't bring yourself to bump the thread that's about ten below this one on page one instead of page 9,235 of the archives.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Stillriledup]

You just couldn't bring yourself to bump the thread that's about ten below this one on page one instead of page 9,235 of the archives.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol:

Oops. Sorry.

I know you guys love when i bump em up, gives you something to get excited about!