I'm convinced Freisan Fire is injured...

[Zippy Chippy]

I just can't believe he could run so poorly with that trip he got. Down the backstrech he was just sitting behind RA/BD. I watched the race 20 times and every time I'm amazed he can't run the stretch. It doesnt' even seem like the same horse.

[Watcher]

I thought he spit the bit?

[Robert Fischer]

very disappointing

it did look like he went to his knees at the break, and then was rushed out of the gate a lot quicker than would be optimal considering the expected pace, and in the process had to grind up against a wide Velazquez/Big Drama.

But he stopped pretty badly. He has never run big in a top class race with the best horses and a fast pace. Both times he tried he was eaten up. Hard to have confidence at this point.

[sonnyp]

I just can't believe he could run so poorly with that trip he got. Down the backstrech he was just sitting behind RA/BD. I watched the race 20 times and every time I'm amazed he can't run the stretch. It doesnt' even seem like the same horse.



he certainly may have been injured during the race, but with l. jones as his trainer, im confident he was 100 % going in.

[badcompany]

He definitely gets this year's Triple Crown Money Burning Award.

[toussaud]

the only thing he injuried are his connection's ego's

[sonnyp]

the only thing he injuried are his connection's ego's

ahhh you're wrong on this one. larry jones is the most hard working, salt of the earth, egoless guy you'll ever find on a backstretch.

[toussaud]

ahhh you're wrong on this one. larry jones is the most hard working, salt of the earth, egoless guy you'll ever find on a backstretch.
yes THAT's why he ran a cut up horse that finished 19th in the derby back 2 weeks later, becuase he's egoless. I get ya

[Watcher]

yes THAT's why he ran a cut up horse that finished 19th in the derby back 2 weeks later, becuase he's egoless. I get ya
Assuming he was healed up, I'm not sure that Derby took much out of him... seeing as he finished 45 lengths back, galloping.

[sonnyp]

yes THAT's why he ran a cut up horse that finished 19th in the derby back 2 weeks later, becuase he's egoless. I get ya



ya know what you got ?

my nomination as the most rude,insulting, obnoxious and, to use your favorite expression, idiotic poster on this entire board.

[toussaud]

ya know what you got ?

my nomination as the most rude,insulting, obnoxious and, to use your favorite expression, idiotic poster on this entire board.


glad to hear it.

but that was a craptastic job on FF from the louisiana derby until now. no other way around it. the horse looks and moves like crap now and now he is is coming out of races cut up and being pushed in a race and FF ovbiously showed what he t hought of it.

so call me what you want.. still think that.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Friesan Fire is just the Fairgrounds version of Pioneer Of The Nile.Good horse but a cut below these.

[lamboguy]

before the kentucky derby i stated that dunkirk had no business being entered in the race. i said that friesen fire looked off on her left side.

i got a total of 27 pm's on this board stating how, to put it a nice way, uninformed i am. you guys made your voices heard right on this board.

i told you before the preakness that rachel alexander might be the best 3 yo of our lives. you knocked me for that statement.

that is fine, everyone is welcome to their opinion's. i just find it odd how there are so many fickled fellows that jump off the ship real quick.

truthfully, i can't wait for the next time i say something controversial and you come down my throat once more..
s

[slewis]

ya know what you got ?

my nomination as the most rude,insulting, obnoxious and, to use your favorite expression, idiotic poster on this entire board.


Damn Sonny, and I thought we were friends.... then you give my award away!

[slewis]

Everyone needs to think about this.


Larry Jones had a sensational filly break down last year. He took enormous heat for it.

Now FF had an injury.... they patch it.... Jones, for the week after the Derby, is on suspension, not even allowed on the grounds.

Legally, he's not supposed to make any calls or be involved with the day to day operation of his horses... I guarantee that had this been Dutrow.... they'd hang him... I could probably pay under $200.00 to personally obtain his cell phone records along with those of the blacksmith, vet, assistants.

Racing closes a blind eye..... the rules are "off".

If Jones were to come out and say "this horse isn't right, but I'm runnin", and something bad were to happen, there would be an uproar unseen in this game.

The fact of the matter is that this colt is owned by people who know more about this game then everyone on this board or any horse racing board, could ever learn in three lifetimes.

Why THEY made this call to run (not Jones), I dont have the slightest idea, but if you run in any Triple Crown races without being 100%, you're probably wasting your time.. and running greater risk....

That's what this was for FF.... a waste of time.....and I certainly cant figure why they ran him.

[toussaud]

Everyone needs to think about this.


Larry Jones had a sensational filly break down last year. He took enormous heat for it.

Now FF had an injury.... they patch it.... Jones, for the week after the Derby, is on suspension, not even allowed on the grounds.

Legally, he's not supposed to make any calls or be involved with the day to day operation of his horses... I guarantee that had this been Dutrow.... they'd hang him... I could probably pay under $200.00 to personally obtain his cell phone records along with those of the blacksmith, vet, assistants.

Racing closes a blind eye..... the rules are "off".

If Jones were to come out and say "this horse isn't right, but I'm runnin", and something bad were to happen, there would be an uproar unseen in this game.

The fact of the matter is that this colt is owned by people who know more about this game then everyone on this board or any horse racing board, could ever learn in three lifetimes.

Why THEY made this call to run (not Jones), I dont have the slightest idea, but if you run in any Triple Crown races without being 100%, you're probably wasting your time.. and running greater risk....

That's what this was for FF.... a waste of time.....and I certainly cant figure why they ran him.
the fact that there is some grand conspiracy that FF ran does not change the fact that it was not a good move whcih is my point.

quite honestly I don't get your point. I'm sure it's a verygood one I just don't understand exaclty what you are saying. I also didnt' know he was on suspension.

that he was suspsended, ran a unsound horse but for whatever reason, it was a good one? there is never a good reasont o run a horse that has no chance IMHO.

[lamboguy]

Everyone needs to think about this.


Larry Jones had a sensational filly break down last year. He took enormous heat for it.

Now FF had an injury.... they patch it.... Jones, for the week after the Derby, is on suspension, not even allowed on the grounds.

Legally, he's not supposed to make any calls or be involved with the day to day operation of his horses... I guarantee that had this been Dutrow.... they'd hang him... I could probably pay under $200.00 to personally obtain his cell phone records along with those of the blacksmith, vet, assistants.

Racing closes a blind eye..... the rules are "off".

If Jones were to come out and say "this horse isn't right, but I'm runnin", and something bad were to happen, there would be an uproar unseen in this game.

The fact of the matter is that this colt is owned by people who know more about this game then everyone on this board or any horse racing board, could ever learn in three lifetimes.

Why THEY made this call to run (not Jones), I dont have the slightest idea, but if you run in any Triple Crown races without being 100%, you're probably wasting your time.. and running greater risk....

That's what this was for FF.... a waste of time.....and I certainly cant figure why they ran him.

they fooled everyone with that race including myself. my word was that the work for ff was giant, i made a trick box with him and rachel. if i knew ff was bad for the preakness it would have made the race alot easier to play,
this is what's wrong with the game, the trainer should have been called in after the race to explain why he put a bad horse on the track. if they did that there would be no bad horses on racetracks, and the racetracks would have 50,000 people there every saturday watching the sport.

think about it, aren't we all sick of baseball players hitting homeruns with their bodies loaded up with steroids. the guys that got caught won't even get in the hall of fame, yet there probably are plenty still on them.

how come this guy ortiz on the red sox hasn't hit a home run all year?

i would love that answer

[sonnyp]

Everyone needs to think about this.


Larry Jones had a sensational filly break down last year. He took enormous heat for it.

Now FF had an injury.... they patch it.... Jones, for the week after the Derby, is on suspension, not even allowed on the grounds.

Legally, he's not supposed to make any calls or be involved with the day to day operation of his horses... I guarantee that had this been Dutrow.... they'd hang him... I could probably pay under $200.00 to personally obtain his cell phone records along with those of the blacksmith, vet, assistants.

Racing closes a blind eye..... the rules are "off".

If Jones were to come out and say "this horse isn't right, but I'm runnin", and something bad were to happen, there would be an uproar unseen in this game.

The fact of the matter is that this colt is owned by people who know more about this game then everyone on this board or any horse racing board, could ever learn in three lifetimes.

Why THEY made this call to run (not Jones), I dont have the slightest idea, but if you run in any Triple Crown races without being 100%, you're probably wasting your time.. and running greater risk....

That's what this was for FF.... a waste of time.....and I certainly cant figure why they ran him.

slewis,
i wasn't aware larry jones had to serve days. what was that about ? please fill me in.

[slewis]

the fact that there is some grand conspiracy that FF ran does not change the fact that it was not a good move whcih is my point.

quite honestly I don't get your point. I'm sure it's a verygood one I just don't understand exaclty what you are saying. I also didnt' know he was on suspension.

that he was suspsended, ran a unsound horse but for whatever reason, it was a good one? there is never a good reasont o run a horse that has no chance IMHO.


My point was that I'm 99% certain it wasn't Jones's idea to run...

FF is owned by The Vinery and Fox Hill... top notch operations...

I dont know why your labeling it as a "conspiracy"... it's a decision.. and those making it are as informed as any in this game...

It just didn't make sense to me... that is my only point.

[toussaud]

My point was that I'm 99% certain it wasn't Jones's idea to run...

FF is owned by The Vinery and Fox Hill... top notch operations...

I dont know why your labeling it as a "conspiracy"... it's a decision.. and those making it are as informed as any in this game...

It just didn't make sense to me... that is my only point.
gotcha

[slewis]

slewis,
i wasn't aware larry jones had to serve days. what was that about ? please fill me in.

I could be wrong but I could swear I read he had to serve 7 days the week after the derby....

[toussaud]

you are correct actually

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/could-mullins-suspension-move-morning-after-press-conference/

[Zippy Chippy]

I swear on the life of rachel alexandra when I started this thread I didn't mean to open a can of worms :-)

[strapper]

I don't know what to think about Freisian Fire. I was so high on him and didn't want to get off of him. He was in absolutely perfect striking position in the Preakness but just didn't have it for whatever reason. A rest might've been prudent in hindsight, but Larry Jones is a fine trainer and it's hard to fault the way he's managed his string in the last few years.

[slewis]

I don't know what to think about Freisian Fire. I was so high on him and didn't want to get off of him. He was in absolutely perfect striking position in the Preakness but just didn't have it for whatever reason. A rest might've been prudent in hindsight, but Larry Jones is a fine trainer and it's hard to fault the way he's managed his string in the last few years.

It was just explained to you what was wrong with him....

You can't run in these very difficult races and not be 100%.... they are too grueling.

If a horse has an injury, it misses training. A day or two isn't the end of the world... but this was a case of more than a day or two PLUS NOT BEING ABLE TO TRAIN HARD....

[Saratoga_Mike]

It was just explained to you what was wrong with him....

You can't run in these very difficult races and not be 100%.... they are too grueling.

If a horse has an injury, it misses training. A day or two isn't the end of the world... but this was a case of more than a day or two PLUS NOT BEING ABLE TO TRAIN HARD....

SL,

I believe it was you who said FF didn't work well b/f the Derby, too. That was a great call. MM's racing well. Will he be in the Belmont?

[sonnyp]

SL,

I believe it was you who said FF didn't work well b/f the Derby, too. That was a great call. MM's racing well. Will he be in the Belmont?


thought i heard trainer of MM say they were looking at haskell at their home track.

[PaceAdvantage]

i got a total of 27 pm's on this boardTo be nice, I am going to assume you are using hyperbole in this case to make a point.

[plainolebill]

You're likely pretty young if RA is the best 3YO of your lifetime.

[slewis]

thought i heard trainer of MM say they were looking at haskell at their home track.


Correct.... MM is stabled there and loves that surface... Absolutely no Belmont.

[slewis]

SL,

I believe it was you who said FF didn't work well b/f the Derby, too. That was a great call. MM's racing well. Will he be in the Belmont?


I heard conflicting things of FF... but there was clocker jibberish that had him not workiing well.....

Sometimes it can be tricky..... Same clockers had MM working poorly....

MM is a horse that never works real well cause he stops trying after he catches the horse Derek works him with....

Anyway, he's going to the farm for 3 weeks or so to relax.. then back to Monmouth to target the Haskell.
He's a late May foal (I think May 23rd so he's still only 2 yrs old) he can use a break...

[Cat Thief]

Yeh he got some of my money and I had a gut feeling he would not be around but because he was my derby horse I put him in some tri's eg 13 w/125 than I had 13 3 5 , go figure

[oddsmaven]

I believe a horse can suddenly string together some awful tries at times without being injured...excuses are generally forthcoming but IMO a reversal of form can often be the case and not always easily explained.

I liked him in the Derby but not afterwards and accepted that he probably tailed off form...but some highly regarded Derby horses have flopped badly in the past and rebounded to win the Preakness...I wouldn't bet them myself but it happens so can't blame them for taking a shot.

[joanied]

Read all the posts in this interesting thread...I was rather surprised by FF's poor showing in the Preakness...I don't know if Larry was serving his time or not...but, I do beleive that the owners were running that horse, and not Larry Jones...no doubt FF's cuts healed up since the Derby, but maybe that place he grabbed wasn't fully healed up yet....I just don't know what to make of it...BUT...two things, someone (lamboguy?) mentioned FF looking off oh his left during his last work before the Preakness...I watched the video of that work, and didn't see anything wrong or off....BUT.... a day or two before the Preakness, on the Pursuit of the Crown show, they showed a video clip of FF walking the shed row and he looked to me like he was walking awful wide in front...which is the sign of a sore horses...might not have been anything, and I never did post this observation...

[magwell]

We talked about ff before the Derby and he was sore going in. then still sore before the Preakness, Jones must not be calling the shots with this colt...

[onefast99]

before the kentucky derby i stated that dunkirk had no business being entered in the race. i said that friesen fire looked off on her left side.

i got a total of 27 pm's on this board stating how, to put it a nice way, uninformed i am. you guys made your voices heard right on this board.

i told you before the preakness that rachel alexander might be the best 3 yo of our lives. you knocked me for that statement.

that is fine, everyone is welcome to their opinion's. i just find it odd how there are so many fickled fellows that jump off the ship real quick.

truthfully, i can't wait for the next time i say something controversial and you come down my throat once more..
s
I called you for your help on this race and you told me to look at RA and that was it. I did what you said thanks....