now I can finally say it.

[toussaud]

Can we please stop calling POTN a great horse. every race he's 'SITTING ON THE BIG ONE' and comes in next to last. right behind fresein fire. empire maker is not a dirt sire like I said, and if anything that sloppy track at churchilll steps his game up.

[Oaklawn]

Can we please stop calling POTN a great horse. every race he's 'SITTING ON THE BIG ONE' and comes in next to last. right behind fresein fire. empire maker is not a dirt sire like I said, and if anything that sloppy track at churchilll steps his game up.

How about "above average" 3 year old?

[toussaud]

How about "above average" 3 year old?
i agree with that. and if this race was at SA it was his to lose.

I've just never seen a horse never run a 100 beyer be so hyped in my life. but in SA i dont' think you need a 100 beyer.

[rrbauer]

He was SLOW when running in Calif and he is SLOW running elsewhere. Where is Betfair when you need it? This is an absolute abominable crop of 3YO. $9K Gelding wins the Derby and Filly shows them her rear end every step of the way in the Preakness with the $9K gelding 2nd. These are the Classics?

BTW, Calvin wasn't happy with the filly's trip. Said she wasn't getting into the track at all. But, according to this board, Calvin doesn't know squat.

Wish I was his banker!

[LemonSoupKid]

I don't think he's slow. I was wrong and the trip was wrong, but not sure if he had it anyway today. He was a May foal and was gutty and the main thing, which I will not disagree with, is that this crop of 3 year olds just isn't that good.

The top two defected and they were real tough, to be certain.

All in all though, it was a good day for racing, although I lost. I smiled. :)

[toussaud]

I don't think he's slow. I was wrong and the trip was wrong, but not sure if he had it anyway today. He was a May foal and was gutty and the main thing, which I will not disagree with, is that this crop of 3 year olds just isn't that good.

The top two defected and they were real tough, to be certain.

All in all though, it was a good day for racing, although I lost. I smiled. :)
today zayat, and baffert and all the POTN crew got what they wanted, a fast dirt track. and he came in next to last.

I don't think he's a bad horse at all. I just don't htink he's a grade 1 calibur dirt horse. there is nothing in his pedigree that suggessts he is, and he runs like a turf horse

[Oaklawn]

I don't think he's slow. I was wrong and the trip was wrong, but not sure if he had it anyway today. He was a May foal and was gutty and the main thing, which I will not disagree with, is that this crop of 3 year olds just isn't that good.

The top two defected and they were real tough, to be certain.

All in all though, it was a good day for racing, although I lost. I smiled. :)

Please everyone remember that I Want Revenge, Quality Road and maybe even Old Fashioned were in this crop and if things had been different with injuries, would likely had something to say in part of the triple crown.

[cj]

If Old Fashioned were in the Preakness I'm pretty sure Mine That Bird wins.

[46zilzal]

The colt excels on a track that FAVORS his running style: LATE, just like Friesen Fire and I WantRevenge (but then we won't fond that out now)

[Greyfox]

He drifted out in the Derby. A sign of exhaustion.
An automatic toss for a race two weeks later.

[Skanoochies]

Wow. Never a mention of The Pamplemousse, if he hadn`t got injured I think he looked as good as any of them. :confused:

[toussaud]

Wow. Never a mention of The Pamplemousse, if he hadn`t got injured I think he looked as good as any of them. :confused:

I think he's a turfy horse too. one of his brothers races in japan and another is ju mping fences.

I do think he was better than POTN however. But I think IWR was far anyway better than anyof them once you got them off the fake.

[oddsmaven]

If Old Fashioned were in the Preakness I'm pretty sure Mine That Bird wins.
Maybe so, but if Big Drama wasn't in, or if she draws inside him instead of that rotten 13, I'm "pretty sure" she wins easier...she did in fact have to cope with a tough pace on the outside and still powerfully opened up four lengths in mid stretch...a lot of winners open up in the lane and then lose ground late when the race is basically over while holding on...and win the next time out often too.

MTB closed belatedly...when horses come charging out of the clouds and finish like a wild horse at the very end, it "looks" impressive and sometimes they win but when that happens I generally find them to be a booming longshot that benefited from a hot pace...the Derby offers a big chance to a dead closer because it is almost a cinch to be hotly contested on the head end with a full field...the Preakness had a pretty full field this year too...so in a normal race with 8 - 10 horses, and a normal pace, MTB, to win, better be capable of making his move earlier...I'm not saying that most closers that win are lucky, I'm saying that they generally catch up to the leaders sooner than MTB has done so far...he has put in back-to-back strong efforts, so I don't doubt he's developed into a top class horse but a fair statement to make is "yesterday, Rachel was the best horse."

[LemonSoupKid]

I'm still trying to figure out what was "hot" about this pace.

[andymays]

The one thing I hope after all this is that we won't have to listen to John White (who is a very nice guy) talk about POTN as a super horse any more!

[toussaud]

The one thing I hope after all this is that we won't have to listen to John White (who is a very nice guy) talk about POTN as a super horse any more!


THANK YOU. I can actually watch HRTV in peace now. dude takes it too far

I think it's part of their responsbility to provide accurate handicapping for it's fans.. you can forget it with john white when there is a horse he likes for whatever reason.

[The Judge]

James Quinn said many years ago that good 3 year olds all seem to have 1 bad race in them and I have seen this to be true. They seem to throw in one bad race out of the clouds, no rhyme or reason, then they settle back down.

This could be POTN his next race will tell the story.

[tucker6]

James Quinn said many years ago that good 3 year olds all seem to have 1 bad race in them and I have seen this to be true. They seem to throw in one bad race out of the clouds, no rhyme or reason, then they settle back down.

This could be POTN his next race will tell the story.
May be true, but in the KD, he had nothing left in the tank at the end, and finished around 2:04. I think he's a tired horse. They should skip the Belmont with him as I don't believe he has that distance in him. He might be better at 1-1/8 mile.

[Cat Thief]

PON never beyered over 100. In the Preakness I wrote down a list of horses with beyers over 100 (I did not have very many as i recall, don't have my paper handy) and I used them in my tri's, had them all but in the wrong places lol. Musket Man is the only one I used and can't remember if he beyered over 100 but I didn't care because he is always in the money somewhere.

[Watcher]

PON never beyered over 100. In the Preakness I wrote down a list of horses with beyers over 100 (I did not have very many as i recall, don't have my paper handy) and I used them in my tri's, had them all but in the wrong places lol. Musket Man is the only one I used and can't remember if he beyered over 100 but I didn't care because he is always in the money somewhere.
Someone posted this earlier:

1. Big Drama high Beyer 108 record 7-5-1-1 $850,258

2. Mine That Bird high Beyer 105 record 9-5-1-0 $1,791,581

3. Musket Man high Beyer 98 record 7-5-0-2 $772,600

4. Luv Gov high Beyer 87 record 10-1-3-1 $62,896

5. Friesan Fire high Beyer 104 record 8-4-1-1 $603,265

6. Terrain high Beyer 91 record 8-3-1-1 $512,034

7. Papa Clem high Beyer 101 record 7-2-2-0 $850,943

8. General Quarters high Beyer 102 record 12-3-3-1 $641,735

9. Pioneerof the Nile high Beyer 96 record 9-5-1-1 $1,634,200

10. Flying Private high Beyer 94 record 11-1-4-0 $193,080

11. Take the Points high Beyer 99 record $156,190

12.Tone It Down high Beyer 87 record 6-2-2-1 $54,720

13. Rachel Alexandra high Beyer 108 record 10-7-2-0 $568,354

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm still trying to figure out what was "hot" about this pace.Nothing hot about it at all.

RA basically jogged into the stretch, completely unchallenged early through turtle-like fractions...you're 100% dead on....

[ghostyapper]

the Preakness had a pretty full field this year too...so in a normal race with 8 - 10 horses, and a normal pace, MTB, to win, better be capable of making his move earlier...I'm not saying that most closers that win are lucky, I'm saying that they generally catch up to the leaders sooner than MTB has done so far...he has put in back-to-back strong efforts, so I don't doubt he's developed into a top class horse but a fair statement to make is "yesterday, Rachel was the best horse."

MTB had the lead at the 8th pole in the derby so I don't know how much quicker you wanted him to catch up to the leaders there. And with small fields also come less traffic problems around the turn.