Another new low in California Racing!

[andymays]

Former Chairman of the California Horse Racing Board accused of "keying" the Car of Jerry Jamgotchian.......

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-horse-allegation12-2009may12,0,5199327.story

[turfnsport]

According to Billy Mays, with a little Cushion Track and water, you can buff those scratches right out.

[andymays]

According to Billy Mays, with a little Cushion Track and water, you can buff those scratches right out.


But wait! If you call right now we'll throw in a container of Pro Ride absolutely free! Just pay shipping and handling!

[andymays]

If you want to listen to the CHRB meeting the day of the alleged incident....

April 24, 2009: http://www.selectstreaming.com/archive/chrb/090424.asx


You will hear Jamgotchian several times during the meeting (about 3 hours). This guy has been right all along in my opinion. He should be a member of HANA!

[DeanT]

According to Billy Mays, with a little Cushion Track and water, you can buff those scratches right out.

:D

(Pace don't like when we only use smilies, so I am adding this text)

[toussaud]

According to Billy Mays, with a little Cushion Track and water, you can buff those scratches right out.
best post ever

[DarrenClarke]

But wait! It gets even better. Gordon Jones reported on his radio show this weekend about the keying incident and also that Shapiro may have lost money with Bernie Madoff. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

[andymays]

But wait! It gets even better. Gordon Jones reported on his radio show this weekend about the keying incident and also that Shapiro may have lost money with Bernie Madoff. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

I believe that Shapiro came out and admitted that he lost money with Madoff. Given the stuff this guy has put California through over the last several years it's hard to feel sorry for him. Then when you hear about this incident.......

I heard of the incident on the Roger Stein show. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The guy should be banned from attending anything to do with California Racetracks for a year.

[turfnsport]

But wait! It gets even better. Gordon Jones reported on his radio show this weekend about the keying incident and also that Shapiro may have lost money with Bernie Madoff. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Yes that is actually true. I remember seeing an article a few months back that said Shapiro lost $$ with Madoff

[rrbauer]

Pretty dicey stuff if it's true. I had a car keyed at Santa Anita one time and had to "pull teeth" to even get a police report taken. Glad I didn't catch the culprit....I'd still be in jail for murder! $7 grand to paint a Jag?

[turfnsport]

Pretty dicey stuff if it's true. I had a car keyed at Santa Anita one time and had to "pull teeth" to even get a police report taken. Glad I didn't catch the culprit....I'd still be in jail for murder! $7 grand to paint a Jag?

Do you think you could pick him out of a lineup?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02t3g6vc8O7WW/340x.jpg

[toussaud]

i've had my car keyed. but i deserved it.

[turfnsport]

i've had my car keyed. but i deserved it.

Yeah me too, ex-girlfriend, right?

Much more embarrassing when another dude does it. :D

[toussaud]

Yeah me too, ex-girlfriend, right?

Much more embarrassing when another dude does it. :D
won't get into details here but it actually was a guy.

[cj]

won't get into details here but it actually was a guy.

Merci beaucoup!

[so.cal.fan]

Does anyone know if Shapiro is an attorney?
Could he be disbarred?

[miesque]

Yeah me too, ex-girlfriend, right?

Much more embarrassing when another dude does it. :D

Ok, I have to admit that ever since I read this remark I have been trying to figure out exactly what sort of infraction prompted a car keying by a now ex-girlfriend. It got my curiousity since that not my sort of retribution, not because I am a nice person or "above that", but because I like cars too much to do gratuitous damage (I mean at one point in High School my goal was the become CEO of General Motor - really glad that didn't pan out :D ). I am guessing somewhere between the getting stood up and getting dumped since its not a severe enough punishment for getting cheated on.

[andymays]

Does anyone know if Shapiro is an attorney?
Could he be disbarred?

Getting caught doing something like this (allegedly), and having it put in the LA Times is emabarrassing and humiliating, and I'm sure Shapiro will lose many of his supporters over this. In doing this (allegedly) he basically loses any and all credibility!

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-horse-allegation12-2009may12,0,5199327.story

[Imriledup]

Wicked and Wacky Shapiro!

[andymays]

Wicked and Wacky Shapiro!


And Sneaky to boot (allegedly)!

[MONEY]

According to Billy Mays, with a little Cushion Track and water, you can buff those scratches right out.
Dang!
I saw the name Biily Mays and instinctively dove for the remote to hit the mute button.

money

[Imriledup]

I think wickedandwackyshapiro is a 2,500 maiden claimer at Los Alamitos. The horse can't run a step from what i remember.

Now, wickedandwackyingrid was another story. She wasn't bad.

[andymays]

I think wickedandwackyshapiro is a 2,500 maiden claimer at Los Alamitos. The horse can't run a step from what i remember.

Now, wickedandwackyingrid was another story. She wasn't bad.


WickedandWackyShapiro was bred or owned by ????

[Imriledup]

WickedandWackyShapiro was bred or owned by ????

Not hard to figure that one out!

Mr Keyed Car!

[andymays]

Not hard to figure that one out!

Mr Keyed Car!


That's what I thought. I just wasn't sure. How about that! You think there's a little bad blood between them? Bad blood and then some!

Wickedandwackyingrid was named after (allegedly)????

[samyn on the green]

First he vandalized the track surfaces now he has moved on to cars, stop that man!

[andymays]

First he vandalized the track surfaces now he has moved on to cars, stop that man!


Great Line!!!!

[turfnsport]

Ok, I have to admit that ever since I read this remark I have been trying to figure out exactly what sort of infraction prompted a car keying by a now ex-girlfriend. It got my curiousity since that not my sort of retribution, not because I am a nice person or "above that", but because I like cars too much to do gratuitous damage (I mean at one point in High School my goal was the become CEO of General Motor - really glad that didn't pan out :D ). I am guessing somewhere between the getting stood up and getting dumped since its not a severe enough punishment for getting cheated on.

Let's just say I was dating Banshee Breeze and Xtra Heat came along and leave it at that.

[turfnsport]

First he vandalized the track surfaces now he has moved on to cars, stop that man!

:lol:
And to think I was proud of my line...that was light years better.

[miesque]

Let's just say I was dating Banshee Breeze and Xtra Heat came along and leave it at that.

That's a pretty shrewd answer that I can appreciate. :D

[CincyHorseplayer]

According to Billy Mays, with a little Cushion Track and water, you can buff those scratches right out.

:lol:

That's friggin awesome!!

[ManeMediaMogul]

Jerry Jamgotchian is a wanker.

Richard Shapiro is a fine man.

[andymays]

Jerry Jamgotchian is a wanker.

Richard Shapiro is a fine man.


Is the article false or are we missing something?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-horse-allegation12-2009may12,0,5199327.story

[Imriledup]

Jerry Jamgotchian is a wanker.

Richard Shapiro is a fine man.

:lol:

[Indulto]

http://www.insidesocal.com/horseracing/2009/05/so-shapiro-might-have-the-key.html (http://www.insidesocal.com/horseracing/2009/05/so-shapiro-might-have-the-key.html)
So Shapiro might have the key, huh?
By Art Wilson on May 12, 2009… And what are we talking about in California today? Are we trying to fix these problems and get horse racing back on the right track? Uh, no. What we are forced to talk about is owner Jerry Jamgotchian accusing former CHRB head Richard Shapiro of keying his car on April 24 during a CHRB meeting at Hollywood Park. Shapiro allegedly left the meeting early, went out and keyed Jamgotchian's car, got back in his own car, thought some more about it, and got out and keyed Jamgotchian's car again. There are reportedly eight track security cameras -- EIGHT!!! -- that got all of this on film.

If this is true, if in fact Shapiro -- a respected man in the industry who quit his post on the CHRB in recent months and was holding down a position that reportedly pays $350,000 per year to help California racing when this alleged incident happened -- committed this act against a man who, granted has been a thorn in the man's side for years now, well, it just shows why California horse racing is in the shape it's in. Folks, we have no leadership in the state. Will somebody please stand up and end all this nonsense before this great sport of our's fades away?

I'm getting tired of writing about stuff that I shouldn't have to write about. I want to write about the great people in this game, the great horses, the great storylines that abound during Triple Crown season. Instead, I have to waste precious minutes writing about childish acts because it's news that needs to be reported. I thought all these guys graduated from high school 20 or 30 years ago.

[Imriledup]

You would think that Shapiro would know there are security cameras everywhere and he would hire someone to do the keying instead of doing it himself.

[andymays]

You would think that Shapiro would know there are security cameras everywhere and he would hire someone to do the keying instead of doing it himself.


When you're ON FULL TILT, as Shapiro obviously was (allegedly), you don't think!

[so.cal.fan]

If it's true Shapiro lost money with Madoff?
Could he be having a nervous breakdown?

[InsideThePylons-MW]

He lost most of his money in the Madoff ponzi scheme.

He resigned from CHRB so he could take $350,000 a year job with CHRMA (California Horse Racing Moron Alliance).

If/when he loses that free $350K after he gets fired, what's next? I would be sure to install metal detectors and armed security at the CHRB meetings. This lunatic is one sick human being.

[PaceAdvantage]

best post everDefinitely wins the reply of the month award (if I had one). :lol:

[Bruddah]

a "get even" story I heard.

Two business men have known each other since college and have a huge Business rivalry for over 25 yrs.. Bus. Man #1 is a real "prick" with a beautiful but bought and paid for "slut" for a wife. Bus. Man #2 has a lunch with her and offers her $50k to have sex with him. She agrees. Bus. Man #2 goes to Bus. Man #1 and tells him he has won the rivalry, he is in financial difficulty and needs to borrow $50k to pay off a Mobster Loan Shark. Gloating over his long awaited "victory" over his friend and competitor, he agrees to loan Bus Man #2 the money.

Bus. Man #2 has the arranged sexual encounter with Bus. Man #1 wife. He gives her the $50k as agreed. A day or so later, Bus. Man #2 goes to Bus. Man #1 and tells him. "you were not at home, so I gave your wife the $50k I borrowed. She said she would be sure and give it to you. I hope that was O.K.. :eek: :rolleyes:

[Imriledup]

a "get even" story I heard.

Two business men have known each other since college and have a huge Business rivalry for over 25 yrs.. Bus. Man #1 is a real "prick" with a beautiful but bought and paid for "slut" for a wife. Bus. Man #2 has a lunch with her and offers her $50k to have sex with him. She agrees. Bus. Man #2 goes to Bus. Man #1 and tells him he has won the rivalry, he is in financial difficulty and needs to borrow $50k to pay off a Mobster Loan Shark. Gloating over his long awaited "victory" over his friend and competitor, he agrees to loan Bus Man #2 the money.

Bus. Man #2 has the arranged sexual encounter with Bus. Man #1 wife. He gives her the $50k as agreed. A day or so later, Bus. Man #2 goes to Bus. Man #1 and tells him. "you were not a home, so I gave your wife the $50k I borrowed. She said she would be sure and give it to you. I hope that was O.K.. :eek: :rolleyes:


That's a great story, is it true?

[Bruddah]

That's a great story, is it true?

I know NUUUTHINNNG!!! :D

[rwwupl]

Replace the entire CHRB Board with "Sportsmen" and not a majority of licensed "Horsemen.

We need new direction and leadership. We have seen enough.

Arnold, are you there?

[Indulto]

Replace the entire CHRB Board with "Sportsmen" and not a majority of licensed "Horsemen.

We need new direction and leadership. We have seen enough.

Arnold, are you there?rw,
Exactly what do you mean by "Sportsmen?"

Are you happy with Arnold's appointments so far?

Is there a better functioning model for the equivalent of the CHRB in some other State?

[theiman]

The Shapiro losses to Madoff and his prior run in with owner Jerry Jamgotchian were mentioned in Ray Paulicks report earlier in the year


http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/tag/richard-shapiro/

[andymays]

The Shapiro losses to Madoff and his prior run in with owner Jerry Jamgotchian were mentioned in Ray Paulicks report earlier in the year


http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/tag/richard-shapiro/

Exerpt from article:http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/tag/richard-shapiro/


“The destruction of California racing,” Jamgotchian said. “My inability to race in California. The destruction of the California breeding industry. The inability to race on dirt tracks. Millions of dollars he’s cost me as an owner. Loss of purses in California. The ADW mess. Reduced track attendance. Closing of racetracks in California. Increased training and vet fees. When I sold all my horses at a huge loss at Barretts. He’s solely responsible for it. He and his stupid decisions with synthetic racetracks, heel nerving and other mistakes he’s made. The last thing he did was get the CHRB budget thrown out in front of the GO (Governmental Organization) Committee.”

In a later email, Jamgotchian wrote: “Shapiro vacuous decisions has put track employees, tote sellers and many horseracing people out of work and took away their dreams!”

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Very strange that there has been no mention of the car-keyed incident on Paulick's site.

[andymays]

Very strange that there has been no mention of the car-keyed incident on Paulick's site.


I thought the exact same thing yesterday.

[Indulto]

Very strange that there has been no mention of the car-keyed incident on Paulick's site.It's right under Shapiro's picture in the left-most column

JAM GOT YA? Jamgotchian claims Shapiro keyed his car (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-horse-allegation12-2009may12,0,5199327.story)

[InsideThePylons-MW]

It's right under Shapiro's picture in the left-most column

JAM GOT YA? Jamgotchian claims Shapiro keyed his car (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-horse-allegation12-2009may12,0,5199327.story)

Very strange that he would have it in the Preakness/Triple Crown column :D

[Indulto]

Jamgotchian apparently really had it in for Shapiro:

http://www.barntowire.com/smf/index.php?topic=24080.0;prev_next=next#new

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/16/1s16horses95721-california-horse-racing-chairman-s/ (http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/dec/16/1s16horses95721-california-horse-racing-chairman-s/)

http://www.insidesocal.com/southbay/2009/05/hawthorne-agitators-car-allege.html (http://www.insidesocal.com/southbay/2009/05/hawthorne-agitators-car-allege.html)
Hawthorne agitator's car allegedly keyed
By Sandy MazzaMay 12, 2009Jerry Jamgotchian is the wealthy owner of over 100 racehorses and a Hawthorne retail strip, and he is feared and loathed at City Hall for filing numerous aggressive lawsuits over the past two decades.

Apparently, city officials aren't the only ones frustrated by his litigiousness.

… Jamgotchian's latest suit against Hawthorne is now in the courts, after two lengthy City Council hearings over whether he could erect a billboard on his retail strip at 5117 El Segundo Blvd.

Billboards aren't allowed in that part of the city but, until last year, a billboard managed by Clear Channel Outdoors stood on the property. The billboard was allowed because it was built before the city outlawed them. But, Jamgotchian ended Clear Channel's lease of the billboard and the company tore it down. Jamgotchian wanted to build his own sign, but the city said no. …

[andymays]

Very strange that there has been no mention of the car-keyed incident on Paulick's site.


My opinion from my experience over the last few years is that this synthetic surface debate has gotten extremely hot and devisive. Proponents of sythetics are in one camp and the opponents are in another.

Many Journalists and Racing Executives love the synthetic surface concept and even though it hasn't quite panned out many in the synthetic surface camp refuse to acknowlege the problems. I don't know if it's ego or what. I do know that most regular Horseplayers don't like synthetic surfaces and I am in that camp.

[rwwupl]

rw,
Exactly what do you mean by "Sportsmen?"

Are you happy with Arnold's appointments so far?

Is there a better functioning model for the equivalent of the CHRB in some other State?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Many years ago, John Hay Whitney predicted when Sportsmen lose control of racing, racing would suffer. It has come to pass.

California is the only State that that I know of that allows for a majority of licensed horseman to sit on the Board. Most states restrict that obvious conflict of interest. Every licensed Board member is automatically a member of the horsemens organization ,the TOC.

Most rule changes in Ca. are supported by the TOC ,racetrack or they do not pass. Have you noticed any changes that are supported by the public or its pari-mutuel customers?

CHRB members regularly run their horses at their home tracks under favorable conditions. Have you ever seen the Stewards D.Q. a Board members horse?

Most State Boards have problems, but none more than the CHRB due to various conditions in their State.

I have no problem with any indvidual on any Board,but I think Horse racing is in a mess and we need a bold fresh approach,and we need to start at the top and reorganize.

I like Arnold, but I think he has not paid attention to his Board appointments as he should because he has larger problems on his plate(Like 21 billion in the hole).

I have been a long time supporter of a National Central Authority for horse racing that all State Boards would answer to in a uniform manner.

[Indulto]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Many years ago, John Hay Whitney predicted when Sportsmen lose control of racing, racing would suffer. It has come to pass.

California is the only State that that I know of that allows for a majority of licensed horseman to sit on the Board. Most states restrict that obvious conflict of interest. Every licensed Board member is automatically a member of the horsemens organization ,the TOC.

Most rule changes in Ca. are supported by the TOC ,racetrack or they do not pass. Have you noticed any changes that are supported by the public or its pari-mutuel customers?

CHRB members regularly run their horses at their home tracks under favorable conditions. Have you ever seen the Stewards D.Q. a Board members horse?

Most State Boards have problems, but none more than the CHRB due to various conditions in their State.

I have no problem with any indvidual on any Board,but I think Horse racing is in a mess and we need a bold fresh approach,and we need to start at the top and reorganize.

I like Arnold, but I think he has not paid attention to his Board appointments as he should because he has larger problems on his plate(Like 21 billion in the hole).

I have been a long time supporter of a National Central Authority for horse racing that all State Boards would answer to in a uniform manner.I'm familiar with the Whitney quote, but wasn't it delivered before a body controlled by wealthy horse owners? ;)

Basically you seem to be echoing what several turf writers in San Diego have been saying about the CHRB for years -- and which the Shapiro era has apparently confirmed -- that horseowners can't/won't regulate themselves.

Certainly we horseplayers are unlikely to benefit from continued CHRB/TOC/Big 4 ADW collaboration.

Should racetrack operators be allowed to sit on the board of directors for ADWs that are supposed to be competing for their business?

From what I've gleaned from listening to board meetings and/or reading the transcripts, one doesn't need hands-on knowledge of horses or the DRF to perform their function competently and equitably. How to get someone from any background/profession to do it ethically and transparently is another thing; especially when there's no compensation for serving.

[rwwupl]

Indulto,

The compensation thing for the CHRB is a problem. The "Sportsmen" element could come from the many fine writers of this sport, or maybe just a couple of citizens or maybe just two or three horseplayers on the Board.

It is strange that no pure horse players(without connections to the industry) have ever been appointed(to my knowledge) to the CHRB. I think HANA or other pro horse player people could recommend a suitable candidate or two.

All State Boards have been used for political patronage and the result is not satisfactory in my opinion. The CHRB is a prime example.

It is time for change.

[andymays]

Indulto,

The compensation thing for the CHRB is a problem. The "Sportsmen" element could come from the many fine writers of this sport, or maybe just a couple of citizens or maybe just two or three horseplayers on the Board.

It is strange that no pure horse players(without connections to the industry) have ever been appointed(to my knowledge) to the CHRB. I think HANA or other pro horse player people could recommend a suitable candidate or two.

All State Boards have been used for political patronage and the result is not satisfactory in my opinion. The CHRB is a prime example.

It is time for change.


Makes too much sense for it to work!

[Indulto]

Indulto,

The compensation thing for the CHRB is a problem. The "Sportsmen" element could come from the many fine writers of this sport, or maybe just a couple of citizens or maybe just two or three horseplayers on the Board.

It is strange that no pure horse players(without connections to the industry) have ever been appointed(to my knowledge) to the CHRB. I think HANA or other pro horse player people could recommend a suitable candidate or two.

All State Boards have been used for political patronage and the result is not satisfactory in my opinion. The CHRB is a prime example.

It is time for change.rw,
I'm sure the car keying incident will be a catalyst for change, but I have doubts whether success at playing the game of racing either as a horse owner or a horse bettor is the best qualification for an industry regulator. If they do either professionally, then by definition they're industry-connected.

As one who bets for entertainment, I'd be concerned that a professional player on the board MIGHT support maintaining the advantage(s) that big bankroll bettors enjoy over small bankroll bettors rather than level the playing field. Worse, he/she might influence its being tilted further in favor of that vast minority of players.

I'd like to see someone who's observed all facets of racing like former L.A. Times columnist, and curremt HRI blogger, Bill Christine, be given a shot.

[andymays]

I'll nominate rwwupl to the CHRB board!

[rrbauer]

Very strange that he would have it in the Preakness/Triple Crown column :D

Paulick doesn't get straight A's for organization or for "live" links.

[rrbauer]

From what I've gleaned from listening to board meetings and/or reading the transcripts, one doesn't need hands-on knowledge of horses or the DRF to perform their function competently and equitably. How to get someone from any background/profession to do it ethically and transparently is another thing; especially when there's no compensation for serving.

You haven't lived until you've attended some of those meetings and experienced the unbeliveable put-downs from board members when you make a presentation (3-minute limit) and then endure the "fun" that they make of your suggestions. I complained about IRS withholding (15 years ago) from P6 cashes that involved multiple-combination wagers that, when the total bet was considered, did not breach the 300-1 limit. Their response: "You should be glad that you had a big score. Wish I could hit a few of those." Now the NTRA sees that as a "confiscation of capital" (my term to the letter) and wants to enable legislation. Better late than never.

I wanted to be able to opt-out of a live multi-race bet (refund) when there was a late scratch (instead of getting the post time favorite). They didn't understand what I was talking about. In fact, the Chairman at the time (KCBS Station Manager-don't remember his name-George something) thought I was trying to pull a fast one and chastized me for my conduct. After a "time out" at the head table for someone to explain it to him, he apologized and said that they would get back to me. They never did. Assholes!

From my perspective, California horse racing made its bed and now they can sleep in it. Shapiro, or no Shapiro. Jerry Jag, or no Jerry Jag. When the big news is somebody getting their car keyed in the parking lot, how important is the racing product?

[rwwupl]

Indulto,

Suits me. Bill Christine would be a fine candidate.

I think the addition of a horse player or two would help bring some balance to the Board.

What we have had is a rubber stamp for the interests of the State, racetrack and horsemen. The interests of the customer(the pari-mutuel participant) has been tokenism.

I do not view horse players(customers) with any less integrity as anyone else.

The horse players are the short leg of a 3-legged stool and I do not fear their participation and having a say so in their own affairs any more than anyone else.

It is apparent that the people on the board now are not up to speed on the customer issues ,if they were we may have gained customers instead of losing them.

When last did any commissioner go to the legislature and make the case for take out reduction or anything else for the customer of racing ?

It was Ralph Scurfield in 1997, and he was turned down on his request for take out reduction for the fans when the State had a 4 billion dollar surplus at the time.

S/B27 was adopted to give the horsemen for purses another 3%--All it did was raise prices for horses and services and the fans got nothing.

California,as a result, is one of the most expensive jurisdictions to maitain a horse for racing.

If you want balance,you need the key players from all segments of the game
to have a say the way the game is conducted.

There is only one person that will speak up for racings customers, and that is another racing customer who cares about the problems and the game as a whole.

The CHRB limits customers to 3 minutes or less,depending on their attitude.

I think most will agree that has not worked out to well.

[DeanT]

You haven't lived until you've attended some of those meetings and experienced the unbeliveable put-downs from board members when you make a presentation (3-minute limit) and then endure the "fun" that they make of your suggestions. I complained about IRS withholding (15 years ago) from P6 cashes that involved multiple-combination wagers that, when the total bet was considered, did not breach the 300-1 limit. Their response: "You should be glad that you had a big score. Wish I could hit a few of those." Now the NTRA sees that as a "confiscation of capital" (my term to the letter) and wants to enable legislation. Better late than never.

I wanted to be able to opt-out of a live multi-race bet (refund) when there was a late scratch (instead of getting the post time favorite). They didn't understand what I was talking about. In fact, the Chairman at the time (KCBS Station Manager-don't remember his name-George something) thought I was trying to pull a fast one and chastized me for my conduct. After a "time out" at the head table for someone to explain it to him, he apologized and said that they would get back to me. They never did. Assholes!

From my perspective, California horse racing made its bed and now they can sleep in it. Shapiro, or no Shapiro. Jerry Jag, or no Jerry Jag. When the big news is somebody getting their car keyed in the parking lot, how important is the racing product?
Super post Rich.

[andymays]

Super post Rich.


Between rwwupl and rrbauer we have the makings of a great Board. Both are right on the money in opinions and experiences with the Board.

I only listened to one meeting in my life and it happened to be the one on 4-24. I was emabarrassed for the Board.

[Relwob Owner]

You haven't lived until you've attended some of those meetings and experienced the unbeliveable put-downs from board members when you make a presentation (3-minute limit) and then endure the "fun" that they make of your suggestions. I complained about IRS withholding (15 years ago) from P6 cashes that involved multiple-combination wagers that, when the total bet was considered, did not breach the 300-1 limit. Their response: "You should be glad that you had a big score. Wish I could hit a few of those." Now the NTRA sees that as a "confiscation of capital" (my term to the letter) and wants to enable legislation. Better late than never.

I wanted to be able to opt-out of a live multi-race bet (refund) when there was a late scratch (instead of getting the post time favorite). They didn't understand what I was talking about. In fact, the Chairman at the time (KCBS Station Manager-don't remember his name-George something) thought I was trying to pull a fast one and chastized me for my conduct. After a "time out" at the head table for someone to explain it to him, he apologized and said that they would get back to me. They never did. Assholes!

From my perspective, California horse racing made its bed and now they can sleep in it. Shapiro, or no Shapiro. Jerry Jag, or no Jerry Jag. When the big news is somebody getting their car keyed in the parking lot, how important is the racing product?


Being an East Coaster who follows California racing, I appreciate the picture you painted of how it is there.....seems like your typical, bloated, buddy/buddy, big corporation type of environment that would make my skin crawl....ugh.

[Imriledup]

rw,
I'm sure the car keying incident will be a catalyst for change, but I have doubts whether success at playing the game of racing either as a horse owner or a horse bettor is the best qualification for an industry regulator. If they do either professionally, then by definition they're industry-connected.

As one who bets for entertainment, I'd be concerned that a professional player on the board MIGHT support maintaining the advantage(s) that big bankroll bettors enjoy over small bankroll bettors rather than level the playing field. Worse, he/she might influence its being tilted further in favor of that vast minority of players.

I'd like to see someone who's observed all facets of racing like former L.A. Times columnist, and curremt HRI blogger, Bill Christine, be given a shot.

What advantages do big bankroll bettors enjoy over small bankroll bettors?

[Indulto]

Indulto,

Suits me. Bill Christine would be a fine candidate.

I think the addition of a horse player or two would help bring some balance to the Board.

What we have had is a rubber stamp for the interests of the State, racetrack and horsemen. The interests of the customer(the pari-mutuel participant) has been tokenism.

I do not view horse players(customers) with any less integrity as anyone else.

The horse players are the short leg of a 3-legged stool and I do not fear their participation and having a say so in their own affairs any more than anyone else.

It is apparent that the people on the board now are not up to speed on the customer issues ,if they were we may have gained customers instead of losing them.

When last did any commissioner go to the legislature and make the case for take out reduction or anything else for the customer of racing ?

It was Ralph Scurfield in 1997, and he was turned down on his request for take out reduction for the fans when the State had a 4 billion dollar surplus at the time.

S/B27 was adopted to give the horsemen for purses another 3%--All it did was raise prices for horses and services and the fans got nothing.

California,as a result, is one of the most expensive jurisdictions to maitain a horse for racing.

If you want balance,you need the key players from all segments of the game
to have a say the way the game is conducted.

There is only one person that will speak up for racings customers, and that is another racing customer who cares about the problems and the game as a whole.

The CHRB limits customers to 3 minutes or less,depending on their attitude.

I think most will agree that has not worked out to well.rw,
My previous remarks should not be construed as impugning the integrity of horse bettors of any bankroll size. What I've come to understand is that none of the terms "horseplayer," "bettor," "customer," and" racing fan" represents a participant group with common complaints and objectives. A common agenda among them would be very narrow even assuming one could eventually agree on a common merged interpretation of all those terms.

I would prefer that if multiple horsemen are retained that they be offset by multiple horseplayers representing as broad a base as possible. Unfortunately, getting even one on would be a feat of major proportions. The main problem, as rrb pointed out, is getting board members to accept input from informed sources, give it due consideration, and actually act on it.

[Indulto]

What advantages do big bankroll bettors enjoy over small bankroll bettors?You're being disingenous, IRU, since we've already had this discussion.

I think this qualifies as a re-bait. :jump:

Do you need my help in finding those threads again? ;)

[Imriledup]

You're being disingenous, IRU, since we've already had this discussion.

I think this qualifies as a re-bait. :jump:

Do you need my help in finding those threads again? ;)

You said:
I'd be concerned that a professional player on the board MIGHT support maintaining the advantage(s) that big bankroll bettors enjoy over small bankroll bettors rather than level the playing field.

I have no idea what that means. When you want the playing field leveled, what exactly are you suggesting? I could have sworn the playing field is perfectly level as it is, every bettor in the country has the same opportunities as every other bettor, the playing field for bettors is level imo.

[andymays]

Since we're talking about a new low in California how about we have a chariot race between Jamgotchian and Shapiro. Anyone rembember Ben Hur? Hell, having a match race is about what we have anyway on a daily basis. With all the publicity they could probably get 25 thousand people for Friday Night racing. They could both carry whips and keys.

Oh yeah, and how about having no takeout in this race?

[Indulto]

Since we're talking about a new low in California how about we have a chariot race between Jamgotchian and Shapiro. Anyone rembember Ben Hur? Hell, having a match race is about what we have anyway on a daily basis. With all the publicity they could probably get 25 thousand people for Friday Night racing. They could both carry whips and keys.

Oh yeah, and how about having no takeout in this race?Is this what they mean by a "key race?"

If one of them gets to dress up as the Haya Harareet character, would that make it a "drag race?" ;)

[andymays]

Is this what they mean by a "key race?"

If one of them gets to dress up as the Haya Harareet character, would that make it a "drag race?" ;)


That is sooooo good!