Leftist propaganda NOT down the drain.

[hcap]

PA sut down the thread "Another piece of leftist propaganda down the drain"

I thought I would rebut his opening post # 1

Another piece of leftist propaganda down the drain...
...and by one of Obama's top guys no less...
Quote:
Intel chief: Harsh techniques brought good info

Private memo says interrogation methods helped nation in terrorism fight

By Peter Baker

updated 1 hour, 6 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists.

“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.
View the rest here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30335592

.................................................. ...........................................

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/11/ig-report-waterboarding-w_n_201733.html

IG Report: Waterboarding Was Neither "Efficacious Or Medically Safe"


A CIA inspector general's report from May 2004 that is set to be declassified by the Obama White House will almost certainly disprove claims that waterboarding was only used in controlled circumstances with effective results.

On Monday, the Washington Post reported the impending release of a May 7, 2004 IG report that, the paper added, would show that in several circumstances the techniques used to interrogate terrorist suspects "appeared to violate the U.N. Convention Against Torture" and did not produce desired results. It is difficult, the report will conclude, "to determine conclusively whether interrogations have provided information critical to interdicting specific imminent attacks."

[Tom]

It would appear the reality rebuffs your posting.
We used it many times on one guy, with no ill effets, and we got valuable information from it. Everything else is hooey!

[ArlJim78]

of course they cherry picked the information that they want to release.
let's see what the memo's say that Cheney has called for releasing.

Obama has opened up a can of worms on this that will haunt him forever. it served no purpose to release those memo's and damaged our intelligence gathering system. he's already exposed the liars in his own party like Pelosi.

[hcap]

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/15-6

We Tortured to Justify War
Dick Cheney keeps saying "enhanced interrogation" was used to stop imminent attacks, but evidence is mounting that the real reason was to invent evidence linking Saddam Hussein to al-Qaida.

by Joe Conason

"The single most pertinent question that Dick Cheney is never asked -- at least not by the admiring interviewers he has encountered so far -- is whether he, Donald Rumsfeld and George W. Bush used torture to justify the illegal invasion of Iraq. As he tours television studios, radio stations and conservative think tanks, the former vice-president hopes to persuade America that only waterboarding kept us safe for seven years.

Yet evidence is mounting that under Cheney's direction, "enhanced interrogation" was not used exclusively to prevent imminent acts of terror or collect actionable intelligence -- the aims that he constantly emphasizes -- but to invent evidence that would link al-Qaida with Saddam Hussein and connect the late Iraqi dictator to the 9/11 attacks."




Would Darth ever do such a thing? :rolleyes:

[toetoe]

evidence is mounting

When it reaches the size of a mouse's dunghill, please let me have a look.



Q.: How can you know when Nancy Pelosi is lying ?

A.: Her face isn't moving.

[PaceAdvantage]

commondreams?

When you stop laughing at WND, I'll give you a break on commondreams...

[hcap]

commondreams?

When you stop laughing at WND, I'll give you a break on commondreams...

A list of WND bullshit.

http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2009/wndliar09.html


I guess you believe in all sorts of hilariously wrong stuff.
A perfect example. Go Chucky......

http://www.alternet.org/images/managed/topstories_picture23_1242448944.jpg_thumbs_315x225

[hcap]

http://www.bartcop.com/cheney-quiz.jpg





http://www.bartcop.com/sparky--tort-TV.jpg

[hcap]

commondreams?

When you stop laughing at WND, I'll give you a break on commondreams...

I am still laughing at WND and it's support for Obamas missing birth certificate. Meanwhile....


"McClatchy has another important contribution to the torture/Cheney/Iraq story, revisiting Cheney's justifications for the invasion and reinforcing the idea that the Bush administration proposed and implemented torture to find Iraq/Al Qaeda ties."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/68315.html


WASHINGTON — Then-Vice President Dick Cheney, defending the invasion of Iraq, asserted in 2004 that detainees interrogated at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp had revealed that Iraq had trained al Qaida operatives in chemical and biological warfare, an assertion that wasn't true.

Cheney's 2004 comments to the now-defunct Rocky Mountain News were largely overlooked at the time. However, they appear to substantiate recent reports that interrogators at Guantanamo and other prison camps were ordered to find evidence of alleged cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein — despite CIA reports that there were only sporadic, insignificant contacts between the militant Islamic group and the secular Iraqi dictatorship....

The Rocky Mountain News asked Cheney in a Jan. 9, 2004, interview if he stood by his claims that Saddam's regime had maintained a "relationship" with al Qaida, raising the danger that Iraq might give the group chemical, biological or nuclear weapons to attack the U.S.

"Absolutely. Absolutely," Cheney replied....

"The (al Qaida-Iraq) links go back," he said. "We know for example from interrogating detainees in Guantanamo that al Qaida sent individuals to Baghdad to be trained in C.W. and B.W. technology, chemical and biological weapons technology. These are all matters that are there for anybody who wants to look at it."

No evidence of such training or of any operational links between Iraq and al Qaida has ever been found, according to several official inquiries.

[PaceAdvantage]

A list of WND bullshit.Stop acting like I endorse the site. You're way too simple sometimes.

[Snag]

hcap, what does it take or at what point do you stop the Hate the Bush campaign?

[Tom]

One would think he would be too busy singing the praises of his guy, the one that won........no?

[hcap]

Stop acting like I endorse the site. You're way too simple sometimes.
You dismiss Commondreams out of hand. Comparing it to WND as tho' there is parity. Please find the bullshit stories they post.

Cheney and the "Wonder Years" of George W. Churchill were in pursuit of justification for their war. First Joe Conason**** writes about it and now McClatchy.

Vs the parade of hacks on WND.


****Joe Conason is national correspondent for The New York Observer, where he writes a weekly column distributed by Creators Syndicate. He is also a columnist for Salon.com, and the Director of the Nation Institute Investigative Fund

[NJ Stinks]

hcap, what does it take or at what point do you stop the Hate the Bush campaign?

Perhaps when Cheney stops whining about how being wrong is still right, Hcap? :confused:

[cj's dad]

Perhaps when Cheney stops whining about how being wrong is still right, Hcap? :confused:

WTC Twin Towers 3000+ dead by - fire - explosion - fall - concussion - etc..

waterboarding - 0 dead

Next question/statement !?

[PaceAdvantage]

You dismiss Commondreams out of hand.I dismiss them because of their obvious slant...just like you dismiss sources of news and opinion because of THEIR obvious (or not so obvious) slant...

You are as guilty as I...once you become more open minded and you stop "reducing those with differing views to caricature" as Obama recently pleaded with you to do (when I read that line from Obama, I immediately thought he was talking directly to Hcap), then I will do the same...

[hcap]

hcap, what does it take or at what point do you stop the Hate the Bush campaign?

Perhaps when Cheney stops whining about how being wrong is still right, Hcap? :confused:I "hate" George W. Bush because of his 8 year record of failure. Chief among all failures is the falsely justified invasion of Iraq, the awful aftermath of that failed war, and a brand of "cowboy" foreign policy that has made us less safe. We have had 8 years of available facts and history to see just how dismal the record really is. Of course the Katrina non-response must be included as ranking failure number # 2.

Our "hate" is a rational and balanced reaction to the last 8 years. Whereas the last 120 days or so of the new administration as viewed by the right here and such venues as faux noos is real hate. 10 x as much crap from the hysterical right.

Save the outrage. My real "hate" will probably grow as more and more of the idiotic rationalizations of bushco are outed. Do us a favor and wait at least a year before your false whining hatred of Obama reaches the 100 x bush level.

ODRS=100x BDRS. And counting

[hcap]

I dismiss them because of their obvious slant...just like you dismiss sources of news and opinion because of THEIR obvious (or not so obvious) slant...

You are as guilty as I...once you become more open minded and you stop "reducing those with differing views to caricature" as Obama recently pleaded with you to do (when I read that line from Obama, I immediately thought he was talking directly to Hcap), then I will do the same...Where are the false stories of Commondreams? Where are the outright made up claims and lies? No comparison.

Slant is expected. Nothing wrong necessarily.

Obvious total bullshit and lunacy is not.

[PaceAdvantage]

and a brand of "cowboy" foreign policy that has made us less safe.Oh stop it...there are no hard facts to suggest that this is even remotely true. More far-left mumbo-jumbo lifted from the "if they say it often enough, it must be true" playbook.

Less safe...yeah, I see that all around me in the bombed out ruins that once was the U.S.A....The way you guys act, I should be typing this from my local fallout shelter....

[hcap]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/world/middleeast/24terror.html

Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terrorism Threat

By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: September 24, 2006

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

.................................................. ..........................................

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/18/washington/18assess.html

News Analysis
6 Years After 9/11, the Same Threat

By SCOTT SHANE
Published: July 18, 2007

WASHINGTON, July 17 — Nearly six years after the Sept. 11 attacks, the hundreds of billions of dollars and thousands of lives expended in the name of the war on terror pose a single, insistent question: Are we safer?

On Tuesday, in a dark and strikingly candid two pages, the nation’s intelligence agencies offered an implicit answer, and it was not encouraging. In many respects, the National Intelligence Estimate suggests, the threat of terrorist violence against the United States is growing worse, fueled by the Iraq war and spreading Islamic extremism.

The conclusions were not new, echoing the private comments of government officials and independent experts for many months. But the stark declassified summary contrasted sharply with the more positive emphasis of President Bush and his top aides for years: that two-thirds of Al Qaeda’s leadership had been killed or captured; that the Iraq invasion would reduce the terrorist menace; and that the United States had its enemies “on the run,” as Mr. Bush has frequently put it.

.................................................. ......

Btw, track down the false stories by Commondreams yet?

[PaceAdvantage]

You can post whatever theoretical mumbo-jumbo security memos you wish...perhaps the Bush policies that have improved our intelligence agencies in the wake of 9/11 have made them more effective in discovering more threats...it may not be that more threats have been created...yeah, I can spin too...

Show me some real world examples of how less safe the US homeland is...list all those attacks that have killed civilians here at home and leveled cities...

As for commondreams, it took me two seconds to find my first bullshit piece:

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0913-03.htm

[PaceAdvantage]

And another, which purports that Bush "expected and desired" attacks on the US mainland, but did not expect the "magnitude" of what happened on 9/11:

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0427-29.htm

The Busheviks were forewarned (“Bin Laden determined to strike in the US”), but they expected attacks on the scale of the USS Cole and the African embassies: perhaps a few dozen casualties -- "acceptable." They did not take countermeasures because they saw a strategic advantage in such a “mini-Pearl Harbor.” For such a purpose, the attack on The Pentagon would suffice. They did not expect the destruction of the World Trade Center. Do you really want me to continue?

[hcap]

I posted 2 accounts of why we are less safe by issued by American intelligence agencies-The National Intelligence Estimate. That is not enough?

I will admit that Commondreams is guilty here. The 911 controversy raged throughout the media and here on off topic. There was many reasonable sounding reasons to doubt the official version. You admitted investigating the conspiracy theories yourself. Most of us came out of all of it doubting the conspiracy angles. Post some more Commondreams stuff not about 911.

Meanwhile a list of WNDs' crap.

http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2009/wndliar09.html

[mostpost]

And another, which purports that Bush "expected and desired" attacks on the US mainland, but did not expect the "magnitude" of what happened on 9/11:

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0427-29.htm

Do you really want me to continue?

Why do some people believe Bush & company had some knowledge of the attacks before they happened? Perhaps becuse of their own words.
From The Project For The New American Century's paper on rebuilding America's defenses
http://www.webcitation.org/5e3est5lT

Particularly this paragraph on page 63
Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor.

Perhaps, they did not have preknowledge of the attacks, or the seriousness thereof. They certainly used them to advance their agenda, one of the main tenets of which was regime change in Iraq.

[PaceAdvantage]

Expect and desire are two way different concepts...try not to obscure what was posted from good ol' commondreams...