Gold close to home at Belmont on May 9th

[Imriledup]

There was a late scratch of one part of an entry in this race and they barred the other half of the entry.

I had a wager on GCTH. After the favored entry was barred from the wagering, i knew that the scratch would lower the prices on all the other runners. I waited well over 1 minute after the entry came off the board and the winner (Gold Close to home) was sitting on the board at 7-2. I waited specifically to see if that horse was going to go down in price and it did not....so, i went up and bet more.

Excited at my 9 dollar winner who won fairly easy, i turned ghostly white when i saw i was only getting 5.50 for my troubles.

[onefast99]

There was a late scratch of one part of an entry in this race and they barred the other half of the entry.

I had a wager on GCTH. After the favored entry was barred from the wagering, i knew that the scratch would lower the prices on all the other runners. I waited well over 1 minute after the entry came off the board and the winner (Gold Close to home) was sitting on the board at 7-2. I waited specifically to see if that horse was going to go down in price and it did not....so, i went up and bet more.

Excited at my 9 dollar winner who won fairly easy, i turned ghostly white when i saw i was only getting 5.50 for my troubles.
By the time they figured out the pool distribution you were probably hitting the wire. Good thing is you won.

[the little guy]

While I can understand the feeling that the prices should change instantly when a horse is scratched, and they did change within a minute, I don't understand how anyone betting seriously wouldn't realize the odds were going to drop, and in this case, substantially.

There are obviously issues in the game that need to be dealt with, but throwing common sense out the window to prove a point doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Imriledup]

While I can understand the feeling that the prices should change instantly when a horse is scratched, and they did change within a minute, I don't understand how anyone betting seriously wouldn't realize the odds were going to drop, and in this case, substantially.

There are obviously issues in the game that need to be dealt with, but throwing common sense out the window to prove a point doesn't make a lot of sense.

They took the 1 horse off the board and then about 30 seconds later, they took the other part of the entry off the board. I waited at least one minute, i made sure the odds 'updated' and it said 7-2. I was under the impression that odds update every 60 seconds or less, but the max is 60 seconds.

I don't make these kind of mistakes, especially when i'm looking at the board waiting for the odds to change knowing that all the horses will go down in price.

I think this winner was 4-1 at the time of the scratch and then went to 7-2. I waited more than one minute.

[the little guy]

So, you concluded that the scratch of an 8:5 shot would drive a 4:1 horse's odds down to 7:2?

[onefast99]

So, you concluded that the scratch of an 8:5 shot would drive a 4:1 horse's odds down to 7:2?
TLG, I notice a lot of times that Aqu and Belmont wait a few minutes before they update the tote board when a horse scratches at the gate maybe waiting an extra minute might keep the bettors happy instead of what happened here where this horse dropped significantly in odds late in the race.

[Imriledup]

So, you concluded that the scratch of an 8:5 shot would drive a 4:1 horse's odds down to 7:2?

I wasn't sure what was going to happen, that's why i was waiting for 60 seconds to pass.

[fmolf]

I wasn't sure what was going to happen, that's why i was waiting for 60 seconds to pass.
i have bet numerous horses at both belmont and aqueduct that when the race goes off i am getting 2/1 then when they hit the clubhouse turn i'm getting 7/5 or less! its all the out of state money and the adw moneys that take time to figure in......i think the windows off track should close at least two minutes before the on track wagering does... in this age of electronics and computers this should be able to be accomplished easily... this i think might solve the problem

[ryesteve]

I wasn't sure what was going to happenHow can you not be sure? It's just math. There's nothing veiled or mysterious about how the odds are calculated.

[Imriledup]

How can you not be sure? It's just math. There's nothing veiled or mysterious about how the odds are calculated.

Huh? Its not math. People are re-betting thousands of dollars, no one knows how the odds are going to end up, i'd just as soon wait until NYRA updates their toteboard to the proper odds.......which seems like its too much to ask. How am i supposed to know that all the people who bet on the entry are going to get their money back and bet it on my horse and make him 8-5?

[the little guy]

How am i supposed to know that all the people who bet on the entry are going to get their money back and bet it on my horse and make him 8-5?


You don't honestly think this was the case?

Over 35% of the win pool was removed. That is why the odds dropped. This was more than foreseeable.

[Pace Cap'n]

i have bet numerous horses at both belmont and aqueduct that when the race goes off i am getting 2/1 then when they hit the clubhouse turn i'm getting 7/5 or less! its all the out of state money and the adw moneys that take time to figure in......i think the windows off track should close at least two minutes before the on track wagering does... in this age of electronics and computers this should be able to be accomplished easily... this i think might solve the problem

Then only on-track bettors could change their tickets after a late scratch.

[BombsAway Bob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmolf
i have bet numerous horses at both belmont and aqueduct that when the race goes off i am getting 2/1 then when they hit the clubhouse turn i'm getting 7/5 or less! its all the out of state money and the adw moneys that take time to figure in......i think the windows off track should close at least two minutes before the on track wagering does... in this age of electronics and computers this should be able to be accomplished easily... this i think might solve the problem

Then only on-track bettors could change their tickets after a late scratch.
BINGO! You just might have found a way for tracks to get big bettors back! :cool:

[fmolf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fmolf
i have bet numerous horses at both belmont and aqueduct that when the race goes off i am getting 2/1 then when they hit the clubhouse turn i'm getting 7/5 or less! its all the out of state money and the adw moneys that take time to figure in......i think the windows off track should close at least two minutes before the on track wagering does... in this age of electronics and computers this should be able to be accomplished easily... this i think might solve the problem


BINGO! You just might have found a way for tracks to get big bettors back! :cool:
so be it they get their wager back they do not lose money.....betting a 2/1 at fair value and getting a 7/5...that is not good for my roi or any long term profits i might realize because i would not bet the horse at 7/5 nut am now atuck without recourse...also it would be very rare for enough money to be bet on track to change the odds in this way!this is one way the tracks can begin to take care of their dwindling fan base on track...it would pay to be at the track again!

[fmolf]

Then only on-track bettors could change their tickets after a late scratch.
sorry quoted the wrong person

[bishlap]

don't be a sore winner

[Imriledup]

don't be a sore winner

This has nothing to do with winning or losing, its about NYRA not updating their odds board in a timely fashion. No excuse for that.

If they know that it takes 3 minutes (or whatever) to update the board, the need to remove the odds altogether until they can update them.

I was just an idiot to trust NYRA to feed me updated information

Shame on me, i'll have to learn next time.

[PaceAdvantage]

Did somebody take over Imriledup's account? I don't remember him (or her) ever being this riled up about so many things...or this silly for that matter...

[fmolf]

Did somebody take over Imriledup's account? I don't remember him (or her) ever being this riled up about so many things...or this silly for that matter...
sounds like he needs conditional wagering to alleviate the pain!

[JustRalph]

Huh? Its not math. People are re-betting thousands of dollars, no one knows how the odds are going to end up, i'd just as soon wait until NYRA updates their toteboard to the proper odds.......which seems like its too much to ask. How am i supposed to know that all the people who bet on the entry are going to get their money back and bet it on my horse and make him 8-5?


Wow............so you really think that a 7/2 shot's chances might get worse in the eyes of the pool, if a an 8/5 scratches?

[oddsmaven]

As has been stated, it should've been clear that the odds would drop sharply, but I don't like the way NYRA tote board handles these...this happens every so often and they blank out the scratched horse and seem to always take more time to adjust the odds then one would expect with today's technology...if memory serves they used to modify them faster years ago...they should be able to adjust the odds at the same time that they blank out the scratched entry number, as it does seem confusing in less obvious cases.

[ryesteve]

Huh? Its not mathYes, it's math. If an 8/5 shot gets removed from the pool, and you don't see it reflected on the toteboard for your horse, and you accept this at face value, then you don't understand the math.

[fmolf]

As has been stated, it should've been clear that the odds would drop sharply, but I don't like the way NYRA tote board handles these...this happens every so often and they blank out the scratched horse and seem to always take more time to adjust the odds then one would expect with today's technology...if memory serves they used to modify them faster years ago...they should be able to adjust the odds at the same time that they blank out the scratched entry number, as it does seem confusing in less obvious cases.
it still takes a while for the out of state moneys to be refigured and calculated into new odds....throw in a few people who make new bets and it does take awhile especially now with net pool pricing!

[FlyinLate]

You don't honestly think this was the case?

Over 35% of the win pool was removed. That is why the odds dropped. This was more than foreseeable.

Agreed. You would have to expect the worst when you have the second choice and the heavy favorite scratches. It's happened to all of us.

[samyn on the green]

This race was a great showcase for the New York rules which are superior to any other jurisdiction. When the favorite entry scratched his overmatched entrymate ran for purse only. Instead of being stuck with a dead horse at a short price all of the grand slam, pick 4 and pick 6 players where transferred over to the favorite. The favorite promptly scored leaving many happy handicappers out there loving the "for purse money only" rule.

[fmolf]

This race was a great showcase for the New York rules which are superior to any other jurisdiction. When the favorite entry scratched his overmatched entrymate ran for purse only. Instead of being stuck with a dead horse at a short price all of the grand slam, pick 4 and pick 6 players where transferred over to the favorite. The favorite promptly scored leaving many happy handicappers out there loving the "for purse money only" rule.
it is agood rule ..the only other way to do it fairly is to not allow coupled entries

[Imriledup]

it is agood rule ..the only other way to do it fairly is to not allow coupled entries

I don't like the rule.

[the little guy]

I don't like the rule.



I can only imagine your thread if you bet an entry and the stronger half, who you liked, was scratched, leaving you with the hopeless half.

[Imriledup]

I can only imagine your thread if you bet an entry and the stronger half, who you liked, was scratched, leaving you with the hopeless half.

I would run up and cancel my tickets. That's why i wish they would let a hopeless horse run as the favorite.

[the little guy]

I would run up and cancel my tickets. That's why i wish they would let a hopeless horse run as the favorite.


At least we now know for sure that you stand on the side of screwing bettors. Thank you for clearing that up.

[Imriledup]

At least we now know for sure that you stand on the side of screwing bettors. Thank you for clearing that up.

How is it screwing the bettors? I'm a bettor and its not screwing me. You bet on an entry and you know the pitfalls. If you know IN ADVANCE that you don't get a refund if one half is scratched, how is that screwing anyone?

[cj]

How is it screwing the bettors? I'm a bettor and its not screwing me. You bet on an entry and you know the pitfalls. If you know IN ADVANCE that you don't get a refund if one half is scratched, how is that screwing anyone?

Because that would be an insane thing to try to force people to attempt to account for when betting. How about if we just stick bettors with any horse that is scratched late, even though they aren't running? That would be a big hit too I'm sure.

[Imriledup]

Because that would be an insane thing to try to force people to attempt to account for when betting. How about if we just stick bettors with any horse that is scratched late, even though they aren't running? That would be a big hit too I'm sure.

in horse betting, there are many variables that you have to account for, its up to the bettor to know the risks they are taking when placing a bet. I was responding to the notion that i'm all for 'screwing' the bettors. I feel that as long as the players know in advance the rules they are playing by, no one is getting 'the shaft'. That's the point i was trying to make.

[cj]

In this case, "screwing the bettor" is avoidable, so why not avoid it? NYRA certainly is losing money when this happens, yet they do it anyway. I'm not sure how any horse player could be against this.

[rastajenk]

I'm amused at the notion that "they" can update the odds whenever they want. I've been in tote rooms, and I've never seen anyone watching a clock with his finger on the UPDATE button.

[Imriledup]

In this case, "screwing the bettor" is avoidable, so why not avoid it? NYRA certainly is losing money when this happens, yet they do it anyway. I'm not sure how any horse player could be against this.

The concept of 'screwing the bettor' is fascinating because unless you are screwing ALL the bettors, you are screwing none of them. Unless every bettor gets screwed, than its not really a case of screwing, its just a case of some bettors being sharper than others.