Ball Four the 8 year old wow

[WinterTriangle]

I'm a huge fan of Ball Four, love the old guy. When he came back to racing last July, after more than a year break.... he was working bullets in prep for his first race back. :)

(Darnit, didn't even know he raced today.:( He's in my stable notifications, which I didn't look at.)


So, looks like he leaves Pletcher's barn, goes back to his original trainer, Patrick Biancone, and kicks butt.

I was told that Ball Four was used as a sort of an exercise pony ... if the barn got a new or a younger horse that could keep up with him they knew they had a good one.

When he won the Fayette in October, it was wire-to-wire. paid $44+

NOw, today, I heard he wins at at $38.

It's great to see mature horses racing, isn't it?

[macguy]

I always like to see the old campaigners.

I bet the 9 year old Shadow of Illinois yesterday at Hollywood Park in the 3rd.
Despite breaking last he was in excellent position behind the leaders all race and came on with a nice kick down the stretch to catch them at the wire. Fast race too, just a hair over 1:09.

Wish we could see more older horses running these days.

[cj's dad]

slightly off topic but, I believe it was Friday that River Downs had an 8 or 9 year old in a race that was 0 for 60 lifetime and there was another that was 0 for 43.

There should be a law against this bulls--t.

[strapper]

I remember reading in DRF Biancone was said to have told Talamo if he gets to the front he'll win. Sure enough, the jock gets the lead and nobody pressured the old vet, and he wins as a huge overlay. The chalk ran 2nd to end his undefeated record. I sat out the race even though I didn't like the favorite and thought he was a 'bet against'. Shoulda danced I guess.

[Relwob Owner]

I'm a huge fan of Ball Four, love the old guy. When he came back to racing last July, after more than a year break.... he was working bullets in prep for his first race back. :)

(Darnit, didn't even know he raced today.:( He's in my stable notifications, which I didn't look at.)


So, looks like he leaves Pletcher's barn, goes back to his original trainer, Patrick Biancone, and kicks butt.

I was told that Ball Four was used as a sort of an exercise pony ... if the barn got a new or a younger horse that could keep up with him they knew they had a good one.

When he won the Fayette in October, it was wire-to-wire. paid $44+

NOw, today, I heard he wins at at $38.

It's great to see mature horses racing, isn't it?

I guess but any happiness I have about the horse is tempered by the fact that a guy like Miancone is back in our game....found with cobra venom, back in a year....must be nice. No wonder noone is scared by the "rules" that exist....reminds me that Mullins suspension from the New York incident is up tomorrow, I believe...

[MaryAinMI]

Anyone have any way to check up on Ball Four?

He's running 2/11 at Penn National Race 6 in a $4,000 claimer.

On 8/2/10, he finished last in a $20,000 claiming race - and was claimed by David Jacobson for Bruce Golden Racing. Put in a $16,000 claimer about two months later and finished 4th of 5. A month after that he runs in a $10,000 claimer and finishes 5th of 10. Two weeks later - a $5,000 claimer - he wins. That was about 3 and 1/2 months ago.

Trainer for the Penn National race is Diane Balsamo - doesn't she train with Jacobson or something?

And why, why, why is the winner of almost 3/4 of a million dollars running in $4,000 claimers at Penn National?? :mad: Why isn't he retired??

[garyscpa]

Anyone have any way to check up on Ball Four?

He's running 2/11 at Penn National Race 6 in a $4,000 claimer.

On 8/2/10, he finished last in a $20,000 claiming race - and was claimed by David Jacobson for Bruce Golden Racing. Put in a $16,000 claimer about two months later and finished 4th of 5. A month after that he runs in a $10,000 claimer and finishes 5th of 10. Two weeks later - a $5,000 claimer - he wins. That was about 3 and 1/2 months ago.

Trainer for the Penn National race is Diane Balsamo - doesn't she train with Jacobson or something?

And why, why, why is the winner of almost 3/4 of a million dollars running in $4,000 claimers at Penn National?? :mad: Why isn't he retired??

If it's cruel to run him in a $4k claimer, isn't it cruel to run other horses in the same race?

[FenceBored]

If it's cruel to run him in a $4k claimer, isn't it cruel to run other horses in the same race?

No.

[MaryAinMI]

It's a question of respect for his accomplishments.

I think putting a 10 year old multiple grade winner, and winner of $720,000+ in a $4,000 claiming race - after his last 5 races have clearly shown him no longer able to compete (because of age, injury or simple wear and tear - whatever) at anything much better clearly shows people using him as a cash machine. He deserves better. He sure as hell doesn't need to run anymore for anybody.

If there are other horses in that race with the same backgrounds, then I'm as outraged about them being there as I am about Ball Four.

[garyscpa]

It's a question of respect for his accomplishments.

I think putting a 10 year old multiple grade winner, and winner of $720,000+ in a $4,000 claiming race - after his last 5 races have clearly shown him no longer able to compete (because of age, injury or simple wear and tear - whatever) at anything much better clearly shows people using him as a cash machine. He deserves better. He sure as hell doesn't need to run anymore for anybody.

If there are other horses in that race with the same backgrounds, then I'm as outraged about them being there as I am about Ball Four.

Shouldn't the vet scratch him if he's not healthy?

[MaryAinMI]

Yes - he or she should. But not all injuries are visible in the best of pre-race exams. At least I guess that's why great runners like Mighty Beau and Sky Diamond broke down in low claiming races after winning several hundreds of thousands of dollars ...

[garyscpa]

You realize he's for sale for $4k, don't you?

[PhantomOnTour]

My namesake and also My Cousin Matt were toiling in the bottom ranks at the end of their careers. Sad.

I think I remember Ball Four's debut race...it may not have been his debut but it was a race at Pimlico on Preakness day a number of years ago. It was the race after the Preakness (last race of the day) and Ball Four had a nice lead in the lane only to be run down on the line by none other than Ramon Dominguez on a first time starter named Fully Engaged. What a race.

[MaryAinMI]

Yes I do.

[garyscpa]

Well, I'm just wondering where you draw the line.

[PhantomOnTour]

Just dug up the chart...Ball Four debuted May 15, 2004 in the last race at Pimlico. He actually ran 3rd to Fully Engaged as the 6-5 favorite.

[MaryAinMI]

Just dug up the chart...Ball Four debuted May 15, 2004 in the last race at Pimlico. He actually ran 3rd to Fully Engaged as the 6-5 favorite.
He broke his maiden the next time out I'm pretty sure.

[garyscpa]

Well, I'm just wondering where you draw the line.

And I just don't mean you personally.

[cj]

If anyone is to be blamed, it should be the connections that first put him in a claimer. Once that happens, everyone involved knew what could, and most likely would, happen.

Looking back, it seems like "Flying Zee Stable" had acquired him privately after his big win in the Mervyn LeRoy Handicap. He ran once, in the G2 Californian, and finished off the board. He was off over a year, then was brought back at Saratoga for 20k. In my opinion, Flying Zee Stable is where the blame lies in this one. I'm sure they were trying to cut losses from a bad private purchase, but I'm not sure that should get them off the hook here. I seriously doubt he needed the money.

http://www.breederscup.com/bio.aspx?id=21549

[MaryAinMI]

Well, I'm just wondering where you draw the line.

That is so hard to answer. garyscpa, I'm first and foremost for the horse. Just so you know.

Any thoroughbred that actually makes it to the track, then actually wins hundreds of thousands of dollars for its connections - well that is a pretty great horse. That horse deserves to be well cared for during its racing career and respected for its abilities and appreciated for the mega bucks it put in its owner's happy pocket. I know the horse couldn't care less if it runs in a G1 or a $2,500 claimer. But every person involved with it should.

And every racehorse, when it's no longer competitive, deserves a chance to be retired - hopefully without injuries that will make him unrideable - and trained for a second career.

If I believed that pre-race exams at tracks - any track - were even remotely sufficient to find an injury that could cause a problem while running, I wouldn't be so concerned. But until there are mandatory radiographs of every horse and until it is a rarity that a trainer is found gulity of some drug offense or another, pre-race exams won't keep horses safe.

[MaryAinMI]

Well, I'm just wondering where you draw the line.

Maybe it's just a question, too, of being comfortable with the horse's connections. And knowing that when the horse says it doesn't want to run anymore, they will do the right thing and find it a good home.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...Any thoroughbred that actually makes it to the track, then actually wins hundreds of thousands of dollars for its connections - well that is a pretty great horse. That horse deserves to be well cared for during its racing career and respected for its abilities and appreciated for the mega bucks...

I'm reluctant to ever get into these conversations because they are rarely civil, but everyone here is being quite reasonable.

I'm not speaking for GarySpca here, but I am recognizing maybe what a shred of his beef is - and it often reflects mine - the innuendo in declaring that this horse has done so much and deserves so much better has a hidden implication that the other horses do not deserve as much. It seems often as though there is a 'caste' system in determining which living animals are deserving of one fate and which deserve another.

It's a dilemma that isn't easily explained, solved, or digested, but I think when people hear someone proclaim that they "only love the horse", yet, there seems to be different rules and accepted outcomes for different horses - it begins to seem like people really are saying that they "only love the horse that they know and love due to familiarity".

I'm sure that isn't the intent, but I must admit - at times it reeks of caring more about one's own emotional attachment to a particular horse than the proclomation that it is about a love for horses in general.

I have total and complete respect for anyone that cares enough to care enough about any single horse, so please do not misinterpret.

In the absence of anything other than the horse's credentials, however, when certain aspersions are cast with a heightened level of venom (not implying that this is the case here, but it seems to happen often) - some of us just can't help but wonder why only horses people remember are worthy of outward and pointed concern.

[cj]

Maybe it's just a question, too, of being comfortable with the horse's connections. And knowing that when the horse says it doesn't want to run anymore, they will do the right thing and find it a good home.

Isn't it clear Flying Zee Stable is the culprit here? If we're are going to lament what has happened to the horse, and we should, lets not pussy foot around.

[cj]

By the way, my point here is that anyone could write letters, send emails, or make calls and ask the owner of Flying Zee Stable about this horse, inform him of what is happening, and ask him to claim and retire the horse. The same could be asked of the original owners, the ones that actually made the money with him.

Wouldn't that time be better spent than posting about it on a message board if you truly want something done to help this horse?

[MaryAinMI]

By the way, my point here is that anyone could write letters, send emails, or make calls and ask the owner of Flying Zee Stable about this horse, inform him of what is happening, and ask him to claim and retire the horse. The same could be asked of the original owners, the ones that actually made the money with him.

Wouldn't that time be better spent than posting about it on a message board if you truly want something done to help this horse?

All of that is in process, cj.

[cj]

All of that is in process, cj.

I am glad to hear that. Post some contact info here if it is publicly available.

[MaryAinMI]

I'm reluctant to ever get into these conversations because they are rarely civil, but everyone here is being quite reasonable.

I'm not speaking for GarySpca here, but I am recognizing maybe what a shred of his beef is - and it often reflects mine - the innuendo in declaring that this horse has done so much and deserves so much better has a hidden implication that the other horses do not deserve as much. It seems often as though there is a 'caste' system in determining which living animals are deserving of one fate and which deserve another.

It's a dilemma that isn't easily explained, solved, or digested, but I think when people hear someone proclaim that they "only love the horse", yet, there seems to be different rules and accepted outcomes for different horses - it begins to seem like people really are saying that they "only love the horse that they know and love due to familiarity".

I'm sure that isn't the intent, but I must admit - at times it reeks of caring more about one's own emotional attachment to a particular horse than the proclomation that it is about a love for horses in general.

I have total and complete respect for anyone that cares enough to care enough about any single horse, so please do not misinterpret.

In the absence of anything other than the horse's credentials, however, when certain aspersions are cast with a heightened level of venom (not implying that this is the case here, but it seems to happen often) - some of us just can't help but wonder why only horses people remember are worthy of outward and pointed concern.

I understand exactly what you're saying. Personally, I try not to operate on a caste system. At the same time, it's hard to know every horse, every horse's history and current situation. But every horse deserves great treatment from its connections, from its first race to its last. Sometimes the best I can do is worry about and follow one horse at a time - I wish that weren't so.

[thaskalos]

I'm reluctant to ever get into these conversations because they are rarely civil, but everyone here is being quite reasonable.

I'm not speaking for GarySpca here, but I am recognizing maybe what a shred of his beef is - and it often reflects mine - the innuendo in declaring that this horse has done so much and deserves so much better has a hidden implication that the other horses do not deserve as much. It seems often as though there is a 'caste' system in determining which living animals are deserving of one fate and which deserve another.

It's a dilemma that isn't easily explained, solved, or digested, but I think when people hear someone proclaim that they "only love the horse", yet, there seems to be different rules and accepted outcomes for different horses - it begins to seem like people really are saying that they "only love the horse that they know and love due to familiarity".

I'm sure that isn't the intent, but I must admit - at times it reeks of caring more about one's own emotional attachment to a particular horse than the proclomation that it is about a love for horses in general.

I have total and complete respect for anyone that cares enough to care enough about any single horse, so please do not misinterpret.

In the absence of anything other than the horse's credentials, however, when certain aspersions are cast with a heightened level of venom (not implying that this is the case here, but it seems to happen often) - some of us just can't help but wonder why only horses people remember are worthy of outward and pointed concern.All horses deserve a better fate than to be running in $2,500 claiming races in their twilight years...one step away from the slaughterhouse.

When we emphasize the earnings of the "classier" horses in this predicament, it is not meant to imply that these horses deserve a better fate than others; it is meant as an indictment against the greedy owners of these once "classier" horses...who profit to the tune of hundreds of thousands - even millions - of dollars from these gallant warriors...and then sell them for "peanuts" - into a life of misery...and an early death.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Both points, Mary and Thasko, understood and yet, also taken in once more and digested.

As I tried to imply a bit, when I react that way - the way that my post describes - it's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction that isn't really on point per se. But it just sort of lingers in the backdrop of many of these discussions and often, I don't know, I guess in an unrealistic way I just wish for all of the concern we have as individuals for the same horse, we could do a better job of spreading the concern to the population at large and head this off.

I'm rambling into a bit of a deflection unintentionally - but suffice it to say - this subject is a prominent reason why I have found it easier and easier to resist running horses anymore.

It can be difficult enought to sleep with solid assurances that you have done the right thing every step of the way - even when the intent is there and the actions reflect the intent. I just want a better solution than what we have and the current environment makes me find a little fault just about everywhere.

[thaskalos]

It can be difficult enought to sleep with solid assurances that you have done the right thing every step of the way - even when the intent is there and the actions reflect the intent. I just want a better solution than what we have and the current environment makes me find a little fault just about everywhere.We all agree with you, and we pray for the day when our esteemed leaders will get together and properly address this very important issue. A stigma like this is not an easy matter for this sport to overcome.

[cj's dad]

What I perceive as a simple solution as I am a simple man - some may say simple minded. If a T'bred has not broke his/her maiden by age 6 or 7 then they are banned from running.

What in the heck could be wrong with that scenario?

[MaryAinMI]

'I guess in an unrealistic way I just wish for all of the concern we have as individuals for the same horse, we could do a better job of spreading the concern to the population at large and head this off."

I agree. And I hope your wish is not unrealistic. It is important that everyone keep racing's "feet to the fire" so that necessary changes in regulations, rules, penalties, etc. are made and so the thoroughbreds we cheer for and love - all of them - are properly treated.

Clearly you've pondered these issues, John. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We need all of us to help solve these problems.

It sounds like you used to have a stable of thoroughbreds?

[Robert Fischer]

What I perceive as a simple solution as I am a simple man - some may say simple minded. If a T'bred has not broke his/her maiden by age 6 or 7 then they are banned from running.

What in the heck could be wrong with that scenario?

good rule

[MaryAinMI]

What I perceive as a simple solution as I am a simple man - some may say simple minded. If a T'bred has not broke his/her maiden by age 6 or 7 then they are banned from running.

What in the heck could be wrong with that scenario?

"... some may say simpleminded ..." :)

I don't see anything wrong with that suggestion. Nor with the suggestion that there be an upper age limit at which all TB's must be retired from racing.

[cj]

"... some may say simpleminded ..." :)

I don't see anything wrong with that suggestion. Nor with the suggestion that there be an upper age limit at which all TB's must be retired from racing.

That would be tough to implement. There have been plenty of good stories about horses racing beyond 10. There would have to be some sort of qualification based on performance.

[cj's dad]

That would be tough to implement. There have been plenty of good stories about horses racing beyond 10. There would have to be some sort of qualification based on performance.

Wouldn't there be a huge difference between a maiden 6-7 years old vs. a T'bred (beyond 10) still racing that has won 5-15 times ??

[cj]

Wouldn't there be a huge difference between a maiden 6-7 years old vs. a T'bred (beyond 10) still racing that has won 5-15 times ??

I was talking about the second part, not the maiden part.

[illinoisbred]

It used to be the rule in Illinois that a 5 yr old maiden couldn't get a stall or start in any maiden races at both Hawthorne and Arlington. It used to be....

[Tampa Russ]

At least I now have a reason to watch the 6th at Penn tomorrow evening. If he runs, I hope he wins.

[CryingForTheHorses]

slightly off topic but, I believe it was Friday that River Downs had an 8 or 9 year old in a race that was 0 for 60 lifetime and there was another that was 0 for 43.

There should be a law against this bulls--t.



Really dont understand your post..Why dont you like the older horses..Old men enter marathons year after year and never win.As long as the horses are sound and have the desire why not let then do what they love? The trainer should know when its time for them to retire.A horse has a right to race as long as he can.Every horse deserves a chance no matter how he runs.IF the huge outfits would give them more of a chance instead of ruining so many to get them to the races.These type of horseman are the ones that are ruining the game giving you bettors smaller fields.Nobody is forcing the public to bet these horses.I also think with the ruining of these young horses,Older horse that have made it thu their problems are called Warriors.Please dont call it "BullSh""t as its very serious to a guy like me.

[cj]

Really dont understand your post..Why dont you like the older horses..Old men enter marathons year after year and never win.As long as the horses are sound and have the desire why not let then do what they love? The trainer should know when its time for them to retire.A horse has a right to race as long as he can.Every horse deserves a chance no matter how he runs.IF the huge outfits would give them more of a chance instead of ruining so many to get them to the races.These type of horseman are the ones that are ruining the game giving you bettors smaller fields.Nobody is forcing the public to bet these horses.I also think with the ruining of these young horses,Older horse that have made it thu their problems are called Warriors.Please dont call it "BullSh""t as its very serious to a guy like me.

I'm not sure how anyone can know a horse "loves to run", especially if they are never competitive and eat dirt for a mile every time out. If a horse is still a maiden at 6 or 7, it is probably way too late to undo what any other horseman has done.

[illinoisbred]

I'm not sure how anyone can know a horse "loves to run", especially if they are never competitive and eat dirt for a mile every time out. If a horse is still a maiden at 6 or 7, it is probably way too late to undo what any other horseman has done.
Agree cj. These kind are not meant to be racehorses-not all thoroughbreds are.

[castaway01]

It's a tough call, obviously. McShell, when we see "0 for 60 maiden", we don't think "likes to run", we think "PETA will be calling soon"....now when you're talking about an 8-year-old claimer who is 10-for-60, that's a lot different. That's what that horse is bred to do, and 99 percent of the time it's a gelding. I personally have no problem with running that horse because that is what he is bred to do. On the other hand, running 0 for 60 maidens who are too slow to win doesn't reflect well on racing.

Just a general statement.

[CryingForTheHorses]

It's a tough call, obviously. McShell, when we see "0 for 60 maiden", we don't think "likes to run", we think "PETA will be calling soon"....now when you're talking about an 8-year-old claimer who is 10-for-60, that's a lot different. That's what that horse is bred to do, and 99 percent of the time it's a gelding. I personally have no problem with running that horse because that is what he is bred to do. On the other hand, running 0 for 60 maidens who are too slow to win doesn't reflect well on racing.

Just a general statement.


Would love to see that horses form..I dont ever recall seeing a "Maiden" 0-60.
Peta what for?.The horse passed the vet in the morn,The jockey wants to ride him..Id say he was pretty sound just not fast enough.

[cj]

Would love to see that horses form..I dont ever recall seeing a "Maiden" 0-60

Well, they are out there. Surely you have heard of Zippy Chippy.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Well, they are out there. Surely you have heard of Zippy Chippy.

Didnt Zippy win a race?..I can honestly say I have never saw a 0-60 maiden

[garyscpa]

Gobbler's Knob recently broke his maiden at age 6. It was about his 25th race. Thing was, he was making money as a maiden, he may not make any against winners.

[cj]

He did not, and seriously, there are more out there. 60 probably isn't that common, but it isn't rare either.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
It sounds like you used to have a stable of thoroughbreds?

I prefer the word 'string'... stable makes it sound more grandiose than necessary. :)

I currently hold an owner/trainer license. I really haven't used it in several years other than to make sure I don't remain licensed as an official or jock agent any longer than I need those licenses to work. My heart is in the O/T license, but as you seem to glean, I'm conflicted about using it anymore on a number of levels.

I'm a cynic, a pessimist, and at times, a borderline clinical maniac. I try to use it to my advantage by setting a convoluted example for others around me that are oblivious to anything but a status-quo - because above all, I am passionate. Insanely passionate. Occassionally people notice when I do something wildly abrupt out of passion cloaked as (anger/frustration/fear/etc.) and I tend to absorb the consequences. I'm in a great position to screw myself by being insanely passionate, so all I hope for is an audience, no matter how minute.

Odd answer to a simple question, but...

[illinoisbred]

This saturday at Hawthorne an 0-32, 7 yr old maiden hits the track. We had one here a couple years ago that was damn near 0-50. Track clutter-thats all they really are at this point.

[Robert Fischer]

The problem in this case, relates to whether or not Ball Four is a 4K claimer when sound("nagging"injuries, age has simply taken away "pace advantages" if you will... anything non life threatening) or if his drop is caused by a life threatening injury.

Pros::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:
He did race for 5K in his last race and did win.
His drops have been fairly incremental (20,16,10,5)
It is possible they looked out for him, let him recover and heal minor nagging injuries and simply gave him the winter off.

Cons::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:
The fairly rapid descent in class
The sizeable total drop from allowance to lower claimer
The year off 09-10 with a drop
the layoff off a win and a slight drop

If he isn't dangerously injured it's no "worse" than the other guys in the field.

The possibility that a 700k earner may be injured is what is most significant, not that the good fella was a cash cow or a sentimental favorite. Unless of course the owners choose to be sentimental.

:confused:How do we solve these issues????

is it realistic to have a "flag" system in place that monitors class drops?

what do we do with a "flagged" horse?

[MaryAinMI]

I prefer the word 'string'... stable makes it sound more grandiose than necessary. :)

I currently hold an owner/trainer license. I really haven't used it in several years other than to make sure I don't remain licensed as an official or jock agent any longer than I need those licenses to work. My heart is in the O/T license, but as you seem to glean, I'm conflicted about using it anymore on a number of levels.

I'm a cynic, a pessimist, and at times, a borderline clinical maniac. I try to use it to my advantage by setting a convoluted example for others around me that are oblivious to anything but a status-quo - because above all, I am passionate. Insanely passionate. Occassionally people notice when I do something wildly abrupt out of passion cloaked as (anger/frustration/fear/etc.) and I tend to absorb the consequences. I'm in a great position to screw myself by being insanely passionate, so all I hope for is an audience, no matter how minute.

Odd answer to a simple question, but...

How ironic. YOU are exactly the kind of person we would like to see out there, racing his horses - because you are aware of what can happen to them. But because you are aware, you are (not surprisingly) conflicted - and choose not to race for the time being. What (often) remains? ... the "others around you oblivious to anything but the status quo."

[garyscpa]

How ironic. YOU are exactly the kind of person we would like to see out there, racing his horses - because you are aware of what can happen to them. But because you are aware, you are (not surprisingly) conflicted - and choose not to race for the time being. What (often) remains? ... the "others around you oblivious to anything but the status quo."

Sounds like Cratos. :)

[Steve 'StatMan']

Didnt Zippy win a race?..I can honestly say I have never saw a 0-60 maiden

He outran a fast minor league baseball player once, lost to same also. I believe Zippy might have won another match race vs a standard bred.

[JustRalph]

where's all the rich players on this board when we need them.....?

Somebody claim him ...... end of story.......

[nijinski]

If his story gets out in the blogs the exposure will help.
He kind of reminds of Danthebluegrassman , there was alot of buzz
on the boards and blogs and I know some people who pm'd Michael
Blowen. I wish I knew the name of the man with angels wings who donated the money .
I believe $7,500 to buy him and he was sent to OF. He was once owned
by Pegram .
We really need some legislation to get moving with this ongoing matter ,
and where the responsibility lies.

By the way can we change the title to Ball Four , the ten year old.

[FenceBored]

If his story gets out in the blogs the exposure will help.
He kind of reminds of Danthebluegrassman , there was alot of buzz
on the boards and blogs and I know some people who pm'd Michael
Blowen. I wish I knew the name of the man with angels wings who donated the money .
I believe $7,500 to buy him and he was sent to OF. He was once owned
by Pegram .
We really need some legislation to get moving with this ongoing matter ,
and where the responsibility lies.

By the way can we change the title to Ball Four , the ten year old.

He was eight when the thread started. :D

[FenceBored]

Didnt Zippy win a race?..I can honestly say I have never saw a 0-60 maiden

Zippy Chippy ran in an even 100 sanctioned thoroughbred races.

100-0-8-12

http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbHorseInfo.cfm?refno=1347194&registry=T

How many unique horses did he beat?

[MaryAinMI]

Sounds like Cratos. :)

Who/what is Cratos? the only Cratos I know is from Greek mythology ... brother of Nike, enforcer for Zeus ...

[MaryAinMI]

If his story gets out in the blogs the exposure will help.
He kind of reminds of Danthebluegrassman , there was alot of buzz
on the boards and blogs and I know some people who pm'd Michael
Blowen. I wish I knew the name of the man with angels wings who donated the money .
I believe $7,500 to buy him and he was sent to OF. He was once owned
by Pegram .
We really need some legislation to get moving with this ongoing matter ,
and where the responsibility lies.

By the way can we change the title to Ball Four , the ten year old.

What blogs are you thinking of? It would be so cool if Coolmore Stud - where Grand Slam stands - claimed him, then retired him at Old Friends together with a nice financial donation ...

I would LOVE to see Ball Four up close and personal at OF!!

[FantasticDan]

He did not, and seriously, there are more out there. 60 probably isn't that common, but it isn't rare either.The heir to Zippy:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2011/02/08/old-horses-eligibility.aspx

[cj]

Wow, now this is funny from the article:

Monserrate will have to look elsewhere in 2011. Fort Delaware reached her seventh birthday on January 1, and Finger Lakes does not accept entries for maidens older than six. Monserrate said on February 1 that he would consider shipping Fort Delaware to race at Beulah Park instead. “I know she will break her maiden there because it’s a cheap track, and then she can come back here [to race at Finger Lakes],” Monserrate said. “Every time she runs they tell me, ‘Here comes the bride of Zippy Chippy.’



A guy from Finger Lakes busting on Beulah!

[FantasticDan]

It's not a totally unfair shot since I think Beulah's avg daily purses are about half of Finger Lakes, but it's still pretty funny.. :D

[cj]

It's not a totally unfair shot since I think Beulah's avg daily purses are about half of Finger Lakes, but it's still pretty funny.. :D

I know, but it is like the Wizards telling the Cavaliers they stink.

[Mineshaft]

so does everyone have there money straight, there licenses updated and all the paperwork filled out correctly to claim this horse tonite?

[Mineshaft]

oh damn and hes the favorite tonite 5/2 ML

[MaryAinMI]

Hoping someone does!

[horsepro]

It is a great thing to still see the older horses who are no longer high profile still going out there and trying hard. It takes guts and HEART to win these days, but ultimately it is up to the trainer or conditioner to find the right races where these horses fit and not embarrass them sleves in an over matched field. No need to put an 8year old or 6 year old in a race where he or she is over their head and has to feel a whip for no reason after they gave their best years to this sport of kings.

[Mineshaft]

It is a great thing to still see the older horses who are no longer high profile still going out there and trying hard. It takes guts and HEART to win these days, but ultimately it is up to the trainer or conditioner to find the right races where these horses fit and not embarrass them sleves in an over matched field. No need to put an 8year old or 6 year old in a race where he or she is over their head and has to feel a whip for no reason after they gave their best years to this sport of kings.


Trainers put there horses in over there head all the time. Those trainers are called buffoons or mo-mo's.

[nijinski]

Such a shame to look at his graded race stats. Beating Rail Trip and Dakoka Phone two years ago at age eight and now this as a ten year old.!!!

[MaryAinMI]

It is a great thing to still see the older horses who are no longer high profile still going out there and trying hard. It takes guts and HEART to win these days, but ultimately it is up to the trainer or conditioner to find the right races where these horses fit and not embarrass them sleves in an over matched field. No need to put an 8year old or 6 year old in a race where he or she is over their head and has to feel a whip for no reason after they gave their best years to this sport of kings.

Took them awhile to find this sweetheart's new competitive level. Came back a little over a year after the Californian Stakes - put him in a $20K claiming race. He finished last. Let's try $16K, they say. He comes in second to last. $10K they wonder? He finishes in the middle of the field. $5K should be the winnner, they say! Indeed, he wins. So I guess today's $4K claiming race is because they decided to either humiliate him more, or hoped that someone would take him off their hands.

[Robert Fischer]

So I guess today's $4K claiming race is because they decided to either humiliate him more, or hoped that someone would take him off their hands.

this is too goofy.

either the horse has a serious injury or he doesn't

if he has a tendon or something and they are drugging him up and hoping to be claimed then they are a POS. If he can no longer control the pace because he isn't as quick/ has to work harder and has some non-life threatening non-suffering issues than they have as much right to race him as any other horse.

the question is whether the quick descent in class signals a serious injury issue.

It very well may.

[MaryAinMI]

this is too goofy.

either the horse has a serious injury or he doesn't

if he has a tendon or something and they are drugging him up and hoping to be claimed then they are a POS. If he can no longer control the pace because he isn't as quick/ has to work harder and has some non-life threatening non-suffering issues than they have as much right to race him as any other horse.

the question is whether the quick descent in class signals a serious injury issue.

It very well may.
Isn't that one of the biggest problems in racing?? We never KNOW if there's an injury or not. Of course they have a right to race him anywhere and any time they want - the problem is we never know if they have the horse's best interests at heart or just want to make back whatever they've paid for him.

[Robert Fischer]

Isn't that one of the biggest problems in racing?? We never KNOW if there's an injury or not. Of course they have a right to race him anywhere and any time they want - the problem is we never know if they have the horse's best interests at heart or just want to make back whatever they've paid for him.

agreed

[Mineshaft]

well he won but did they claim him?

[Knowclew]

No claim

[nijinski]

What blogs are you thinking of? It would be so cool if Coolmore Stud - where Grand Slam stands - claimed him, then retired him at Old Friends together with a nice financial donation ...

I would LOVE to see Ball Four up close and personal at OF!!
Mary I believe it was one or more of the female writers from the Thoroughbred Bloggers Association, possibly Foolish Pleasure. Myself and another from a small forum
also pm'd OF , the pressure was really on. I'm hoping a private buyer does right by him.

[craigbraddick]

Ball Four seemed to enjoy the race and he ran well.

No one in older age is going to be the same as they were but if he is still enjoying the races he is in and enjoying being a race horse and is healthy, more power to him.

I think it is great and I look forward to seeing the old boy continue to enjoy doing his thing at a level he can compete at.

Craig

[nijinski]

Ball Four seemed to enjoy the race and he ran well.

No one in older age is going to be the same as they were but if he is still enjoying the races he is in and enjoying being a race horse and is healthy, more power to him.

I think it is great and I look forward to seeing the old boy continue to enjoy doing his thing at a level he can compete at.

Craig

I can't help it , I still think it's a shame. The owner still has to make his
money on his $20,000 investment plus upkeep fees. The named trainer
is Diane Balsamo which means he's likely still in Jacobsen's barn. I just
hope thay don't push the old fella as his race history suggests he has
had problems . We'll see how happy he remains.

[craigbraddick]

I can't help it , I still think it's a shame. The owner still has to make his
money on his $20,000 investment plus upkeep fees. The named trainer
is Diane Balsamo which means he's likely still in Jacobsen's barn. I just
hope thay don't push the old fella as his race history suggests he has
had problems . We'll see how happy he remains.

I hope the same. But FWIW, there are thousands of horses older than Ball Four in the UK running in jumps racing over much further than this.

Let us hope he keeps safe, keeps enjoying his racing and continues to have fun and giving race fans pleasure.

Craig

[Robert Fischer]

Ball Four seemed to enjoy the race...

...if he is still enjoying the races he is in

and enjoying being a race horse...

look forward to seeing the old boy continue to enjoy...
Craig

Let us hope he keeps safe, keeps enjoying...

continues to have fun...

Craig

oh boy....:rolleyes:

:bang::bang::bang:
ok this is as bad as saying he "humiliated" himself in the prior win at 5k claiming.

If it wasn't an attention grab, it would still be a pisser because frankly, Ball Four had a better Saturday than I did!!!:D

[Wingtips]

I people want to worry about horses running at the bottom, how about worrying about the ones that finished in the back by double digit lengths.

[MaryAinMI]

I people want to worry about horses running at the bottom, how about worrying about the ones that finished in the back by double digit lengths.

Agreed. Many of us worry about both. Am still tryting to find out how Trippedoutofadream fared. He bobbled at the start in Ball Four's race, clipped heels and stumbled later, then was eased up. Poor guy.

[MaryAinMI]

oh boy....:rolleyes:

:bang::bang::bang:
ok this is as bad as saying he "humiliated" himself in the prior win at 5k claiming.

If it wasn't an attention grab, it would still be a pisser because frankly, Ball Four had a better Saturday than I did!!!:D

Aw c'mon Robert - give people a break - is it so bad for folks to have feelings about these horses? :) Especially since racing as it exists now doesn't allow anyone who finds themselves following or appreciating or, for whatever crazy reason, growing attached to a particular animal to really know how healthy it is or isn't - especially when its running in the lower levels.

[Mineshaft]

Agreed. Many of us worry about both. Am still tryting to find out how Trippedoutofadream fared. He bobbled at the start in Ball Four's race, clipped heels and stumbled later, then was eased up. Poor guy.





The connections of that horse that was eased post on here you might try contacting them. Yep poor guy looks like a private purchase then they threw him to the wolves in a N1X. Bunch of buffoons

[johnhannibalsmith]

The connections of that horse that was eased post on here you might try contacting them. Yep poor guy looks like a private purchase then they threw him to the wolves in a N1X. Bunch of buffoons

The horse nearly fell in the turn after running onto heels, recovered, and the rider didn't persevere shortly thereafter as a consequence. The previous race he was a winner at the 4k claiming level. Previously ran 5th of 12 again at the 4k claiming level at 8-1.

Whatever your vendetta is about, you seem to be very unconvincing to anyone remotely objective.

[Mineshaft]

The horse nearly fell in the turn after running onto heels, recovered, and the rider didn't persevere shortly thereafter as a consequence. The previous race he was a winner at the 4k claiming level. Previously ran 5th of 12 again at the 4k claiming level at 8-1.

Whatever your vendetta is about, you seem to be very unconvincing to anyone remotely objective.




Thanks.....

[duncan04]

Old Friends is trying to raise funds to retire graded stakes winner, and former Turfway Park regular, Ball Four. With over 500k in lifetime earnings, he is still racing at age 10 but is now lingering in bottom claimers. Old Friends is trying to give him the dignified retirement he deserves while he's still healthy. Follow the link below if you're interested in donating.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/note.php?note_id=155138151206692&id=1076543440

Saw it on facebook. In case the link doesn't work, I will copy and paste the info.



His name is Ball Four. He ran a race at Penn National yesterday in a $4,000 claiming race. Ball Four is by Grand Slam and out of Making Faces. He is 10 years old. Ball Four has run in 31 races, and has finished 1st in 9, 2nd in 3 and 3rd in 4 races with an earnings to date of $740,470. His accomplishments include:

1st 2006 Kentucky Cup Classic

1st 2009 Mervyn Leroy Handicap

1st 2008 Fayette Stakes


1st 2006 Tejano Run Stakes

2nd 2005 Kentucky Cup Classic

2nd 2007 San Antonio Classic

2nd 2006 Fayette Stakes

3rd 2008 Native Diver Stakes



In 2004 Ball Four also set a new track record at Belmont for 7.5 furlongs and 2006 at Turfway Park for 9 furlongs. Ball Four had a very prominent career until June of 2009 when he was claimed and did not show up on a track again until August of 2010, fourteen months later. Now he is running in $4,000 and $5,000 claimers.



Ball Four needs to be retired while he can still enjoy retirement.



We are fundraising for $5,000 to retire Ball Four. Won’t you please help????



Won't you please help us to retire Ball Four??



Donations can be mailed to: (please make a note on either that it is for Ball Four)



Please make checks out to "Old Friends" and mail to:

Old Friends, Inc.

1841 Paynes Depot Rd.

Georgetown, KY 40324



Or Paypal to: michael@oldfriendsequine.org

[Mineshaft]

Agreed. Many of us worry about both. Am still tryting to find out how Trippedoutofadream fared. He bobbled at the start in Ball Four's race, clipped heels and stumbled later, then was eased up. Poor guy.






Mary did you contact them? They have a phone number on there website. If you can ask them what happened to those 2 horses they ran last nite i would appreciate it. Thanks...

[MaryAinMI]

Mary did you contact them? They have a phone number on there website. If you can ask them what happened to those 2 horses they ran last nite i would appreciate it. Thanks...

I found the contact information but haven't called yet, Mineshaft. I will today. What are the names of the other two you'd like me to check on. I'd be happy to do so. :)

[Mineshaft]

I found the contact information but haven't called yet, Mineshaft. I will today. What are the names of the other two you'd like me to check on. I'd be happy to do so. :)





Mary i was being sarcastic. I know what happened to the 2 last nite. They are slow..

[MaryAinMI]

:blush: I guess I'M the slow one, too! :)

[TonyK@HSH]

Old Friends is trying to raise funds to retire graded stakes winner, and former Turfway Park regular, Ball Four. With over 500k in lifetime earnings, he is still racing at age 10 but is now lingering in bottom claimers. Old Friends is trying to give him the dignified retirement he deserves while he's still healthy. Follow the link below if you're interested in donating.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/note.php?note_id=155138151206692&id=1076543440

Saw it on facebook. In case the link doesn't work, I will copy and paste the info.



His name is Ball Four. He ran a race at Penn National yesterday in a $4,000 claiming race. Ball Four is by Grand Slam and out of Making Faces. He is 10 years old. Ball Four has run in 31 races, and has finished 1st in 9, 2nd in 3 and 3rd in 4 races with an earnings to date of $740,470. His accomplishments include:

1st 2006 Kentucky Cup Classic

1st 2009 Mervyn Leroy Handicap

1st 2008 Fayette Stakes


1st 2006 Tejano Run Stakes

2nd 2005 Kentucky Cup Classic

2nd 2007 San Antonio Classic

2nd 2006 Fayette Stakes

3rd 2008 Native Diver Stakes



In 2004 Ball Four also set a new track record at Belmont for 7.5 furlongs and 2006 at Turfway Park for 9 furlongs. Ball Four had a very prominent career until June of 2009 when he was claimed and did not show up on a track again until August of 2010, fourteen months later. Now he is running in $4,000 and $5,000 claimers.



Ball Four needs to be retired while he can still enjoy retirement.



We are fundraising for $5,000 to retire Ball Four. Won’t you please help????



Won't you please help us to retire Ball Four??



Donations can be mailed to: (please make a note on either that it is for Ball Four)



Please make checks out to "Old Friends" and mail to:

Old Friends, Inc.

1841 Paynes Depot Rd.

Georgetown, KY 40324



Or Paypal to: michael@oldfriendsequine.org

I'd suspect it will take a bit more than $5k to acquire Ball Four right now. He won convincingly and will be one of the favs if entered back in the open $4k, which carries a $16k purse. Winners share in that race exceeds $7700 (after jock and trainers fees).
The old boy galloped out well and returned to the winners circle bouncing. Several trainers were disappointed they decided to pass on a claim that eve. I'm all for finding good homes for retired runners but this guy may not be ready for the pasture just yet.

TonyK

[Mineshaft]

I'd suspect it will take a bit more than $5k to acquire Ball Four right now. He won convincingly and will be one of the favs if entered back in the open $4k, which carries a $16k purse. Winners share in that race exceeds $7700 (after jock and trainers fees).
The old boy galloped out well and returned to the winners circle bouncing. Several trainers were disappointed they decided to pass on a claim that eve. I'm all for finding good homes for retired runners but this guy may not be ready for the pasture just yet.

TonyK






He had 2 1/2 months in between starts i doubt they jump him up. I only know of one trainer that would jump him up and right now there luck is not too good. The trainers who passed did so for a reason. If the horse was any good they would of run him for Starters, but back in for 4K and a 2 1/2 break tells me to run away from this horse.

[Robert Fischer]

this thread has kind of brought to the light what should have already been clear.

1. we need a (public) system of flagging horses with questionable drops

2. we need to refer these situations to experts. By necessity (because of lack of a system) some of us have bravely (or driven by emotion) given our own amateur suggestions. In a perfect situation we would have a "cabinet" or panel who's responsibility would be screening the flagged droppers and postponing those awaiting a screening. Unfortunately some of the amateur comments have been cringe worthy:blush: and could potentially be used in opposition by the malintentioned or otherwise(even logical thinking well intentioned observers could be thrown astray by some of the unfortunate innacuracies).

Proposal:
Having determined that the crux of the issue here is related to the TRUTH that the claiming game is driven by hard cold economics, I propose the following:
All claims and purchases of horses shall automatically include an insurance clause. Should the horse become injured at anytime (within a years time [subject to expert adjustment]{of the master rule, not on a case by case basis}) the purchaser has the option to be reimbursed 75%[subject to expert adjustment]{of the master rule, not on a case by case basis}) of the purchase or claiming price.
This STOPS the knuckleheaded "band-aid" tactic, and addresses actual strategy of the ECON0MIC SYSTEM itself. What this does is eliminate the incentive for owners to "trick" other owners, and it eliminate the risk of the owners who would like to claim a 'scary' horse. MORE RELEVANT to those emotionally involved here: It eliminates the incentive of running-back a hurt horse to "break even" on a rotten horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

its your birthday
you love me

future problem solving will be private at a rate of $300/hr and cost of snacks.

[Mineshaft]

this thread has kind of brought to the light what should have already been clear.

1. we need a (public) system of flagging horses with questionable drops

2. we need to refer these situations to experts. By necessity (because of lack of a system) some of us have bravely (or driven by emotion) given our own amateur suggestions. In a perfect situation we would have a "cabinet" or panel who's responsibility would be screening the flagged droppers and postponing those awaiting a screening. Unfortunately some of the amateur comments have been cringe worthy:blush: and could potentially be used in opposition by the malintentioned or otherwise(even logical thinking well intentioned observers could be thrown astray by some of the unfortunate innacuracies).

Proposal:
Having determined that the crux of the issue here is related to the TRUTH that the claiming game is driven by hard cold economics, I propose the following:
All claims and purchases of horses shall automatically include an insurance clause. Should the horse become injured at anytime (within a years time [subject to expert adjustment]{of the master rule, not on a case by case basis}) the purchaser has the option to be reimbursed 75%[subject to expert adjustment]{of the master rule, not on a case by case basis}) of the purchase or claiming price.
This STOPS the knuckleheaded "band-aid" tactic, and addresses actual strategy of the ECON0MIC SYSTEM itself. What this does is eliminate the incentive for owners to "trick" other owners, and it eliminate the risk of the owners who would like to claim a 'scary' horse. MORE RELEVANT to those emotionally involved here: It eliminates the incentive of running-back a hurt horse to "break even" on a rotten horse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

its your birthday
you love me

future problem solving will be private at a rate of $300/hr and cost of snacks.





ur joking right? i hope you are..


does this proposal also include horses that you buy privately? I know a stable who bought 2 horses sight unseen and within a week had to give one away.

[Robert Fischer]

ur joking right? i hope you are..


does this proposal also include horses that you buy privately? I know a stable who bought 2 horses sight unseen and within a week had to give one away.
wtf?? wowwwwwwwwww

not exactly sure what the "i hope you are" is supposed to mean. Or how that jives with some of the things you have said in this and similarly emotionally-driven threads. However I don't take the comment seriously as any type of a "slight".

(also not exactly sure what the 2 horses sight unseen comment means in this context. )

To clarify I don't take the proposal seriously in terms of SPECIFICS. However the generalized CONCEPT that I offer for the good of the game is like a lively donkey in that it is a "KICK-ASS" idea.

PUT ASIDE THE LOVE YOU HAVE FOR THE GOOD OLD BOY WHO YOU SAW RUN BRAVELY FOR A WHILE.

PUT ASIDE THE EMOTIONS ASSOCIATED WITH HUMAN BEINGS WHO HAVE SACRIFICED FOR OTHERS ONLY TO BE UNDER~APPRECIATED, EVEN DISCARDED!... WHEN THEY CAN NO LONGER PLEASE THEIR MASTER! :(
- this may be even more difficult than simply the horse-lover who sees an injustice happening.

IF it is possible to put those emotions aside ....

... first you may realize that my insight was a benefit YOUR cause

... second you may realize that what I said was concise and TRUE.


THE REASON THESE HORSES ARE BEING RUN IN SPITE OF LIFE-THREATENING INJURIES IS FINANCIAL:eek:!:mad:

the horses are being run back in hopes they will be claimed, and/or win back purse money. In layman's terms: :mad:There is an INCENTIVE to run horses who have life-threatening injuries, especially newer claims.:mad:

MY CONCEPT IS AS FOLLOWS:
Eliminate that INCENTIVE! :jump:
ELIMINATE THE INCENTIVE TO RUN

please be a big enough(mature?) person to look past my AMATEUR specifics(and the eccentric manner with which I work my infatuating magic) regarding time periods and the like (SPECIFICS require EXPERT(s) in the claiming field, not just a horseplayer with the vision to see the financial basics at play in this terrible recurring nightmare)

THE FOLLOWING IS A VERY BASIC EXAMPLE OF SPECIFICS THAT EXPERTS MAY COME UP WITH SIMILAR PROTOCOL


certain class drops should raise an automatic computerized "FLAG".
THE CURRENT OWNER is notified upon entering a claiming race that their horse will be "FLAGGED"
should the horse be CLAIMED, the new owner shall have some insurance that removes a good bit of the incentive of the new owner(by some responsibility of the former owner) to "recoup" by running an unsound horse down in class in order to sell-off or win a purse at the risk of the horses life.
THE FACT IS THAT THIS IS AN ECONOMIC DECISION. The system will not work if there is ECONOMIC INCENTIVE! to risk these horse's lives. Doing the "right thing" simply isn't as strong an incentive.

The idea that a "good guy" should step in and play benefactor, and "save" these horses time after time isn't a long-term wining solution.

No this is NOT a JOKE. :cool:

[Mineshaft]

wtf?? wowwwwwwwwww

not exactly sure what the "i hope you are" is supposed to mean. Or how that jives with some of the things you have said in this and similarly emotionally-driven threads. However I don't take the comment seriously as any type of a "slight".

(also not exactly sure what the 2 horses sight unseen comment means in this context. )

To clarify I don't take the proposal seriously in terms of SPECIFICS. However the generalized CONCEPT that I offer for the good of the game is like a lively donkey in that it is a "KICK-ASS" idea.

PUT ASIDE THE LOVE YOU HAVE FOR THE GOOD OLD BOY WHO YOU SAW RUN BRAVELY FOR A WHILE.

PUT ASIDE THE EMOTIONS ASSOCIATED WITH HUMAN BEINGS WHO HAVE SACRIFICED FOR OTHERS ONLY TO BE UNDER~APPRECIATED, EVEN DISCARDED!... WHEN THEY CAN NO LONGER PLEASE THEIR MASTER! :(
- this may be even more difficult than simply the horse-lover who sees an injustice happening.

IF it is possible to put those emotions aside ....

... first you may realize that my insight was a benefit YOUR cause

... second you may realize that what I said was concise and TRUE.


THE REASON THESE HORSES ARE BEING RUN IN SPITE OF LIFE-THREATENING INJURIES IS FINANCIAL:eek:!:mad:

the horses are being run back in hopes they will be claimed, and/or win back purse money. In layman's terms: :mad:There is an INCENTIVE to run horses who have life-threatening injuries, especially newer claims.:mad:

MY CONCEPT IS AS FOLLOWS:
Eliminate that INCENTIVE! :jump:
ELIMINATE THE INCENTIVE TO RUN

please be a big enough(mature?) person to look past my AMATEUR specifics(and the eccentric manner with which I work my infatuating magic) regarding time periods and the like (SPECIFICS require EXPERT(s) in the claiming field, not just a horseplayer with the vision to see the financial basics at play in this terrible recurring nightmare)

THE FOLLOWING IS A VERY BASIC EXAMPLE OF SPECIFICS THAT EXPERTS MAY COME UP WITH SIMILAR PROTOCOL

certain class drops should raise an automatic computerized "FLAG".
THE CURRENT OWNER is notified upon entering a claiming race that their horse will be "FLAGGED"
should the horse be CLAIMED, the new owner shall have some insurance that removes a good bit of the incentive of the new owner(by some responsibility of the former owner) to "recoup" by running an unsound horse down in class in order to sell-off or win a purse at the risk of the horses life.
THE FACT IS THAT THIS IS AN ECONOMIC DECISION. The system will not work if there is ECONOMIC INCENTIVE! to risk these horse's lives. Doing the "right thing" simply isn't as strong an incentive.

The idea that a "good guy" should step in and play benefactor, and "save" these horses time after time isn't a long-term wining solution.

No this is NOT a JOKE. :cool:






Ok so you are serious. Ok here we go.



1-I dont liike your system. Just my opinion but i dont like it. Maybe you can tweak it some more.

2-It will never fly with the horseman(trainers or owners)

3-This will never pass.

[Robert Fischer]

Ok so you are serious. Ok here we go.



1-I dont liike your system. Just my opinion but i dont like it. Maybe you can tweak it some more.

2-It will never fly with the horseman(trainers or owners)

3-This will never pass.

Ok I see where the confusion is coming from.

This isn't a system.
It's an idea (a concept).

The concept is very simple and is as follows:
Right now there is incentive (financial motivation... you get paid money) to run lame horses in situations. The concept revolves around removing that incentive.

1st people have to say "We have a problemo"

if people agree "yes we do" then the problem moves on to the brainstorm phase

in the brainstorm phase Intelligence Agencies hack my internet provider and copy ideas from debates i have with other internet people.

then those raw concepts are developed by actual horseman who come up with realistic applications of the concepts

and then finally Jeff Mullins crushes the final system with his pinky

COMPRENDO!? :mad:

[TonyK@HSH]

Ball Four has been entered for $5000 in the 8th race at Penn National on March 4th. He is listed at 5-1 on the morning line.

TonyK

[nijinski]

Ball Four has been retired to Old Friends !!!

Not sure it has been mentioned here .


Thanks to the cooperation of David Jacobsen , Bruce Golden and Maggie Moss
and to all those who sent out poblic appeals for the veteran who ran his
little heart out for so many years. :)

[duncan04]

Ball Four has been retired to Old Friends !!!

Not sure it has been mentioned here .


Thanks to the cooperation of David Jacobsen , Bruce Golden and Maggie Moss
and to all those who sent out poblic appeals for the veteran who ran his
little heart out for so many years. :)


Good to see it worked out for them!! Hope she enjoys her retirement!

[cj]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/62063/ball-four-retired-sent-to-old-friends