Rachel Alexandra

[cj's dad]

Is she in the midst of being sold and subsequently being entered in the Preakness and Belmont Stakes

TVG- Jess jackson @ $10 million

[Quagmire]

She's worth more than that.

[cj]

You think? It is a lot tougher to make that kind of money back with a top filly than it is a colt.

[GaryG]

I think 10 mil is a lot. She will never make that much racing and who knows how long she will stay sound? Also, there is no guarantee that she will be the second coming of La Troienne. I would take the money and run.

[Relwob Owner]

Is she in the midst of being sold and subsequently being entered in the Preakness and Belmont Stakes

TVG- Jess jackson @ $10 million


I am no authority on values but I will say if this is true, I would be very happy....

[lamboguy]

she could make 2 million or more by the end of the year. she would definately be the favorite in both preakness and belmont.

personally, i hope if jackson gets the horse that steve asmussen trains her.

[Relwob Owner]

I think 10 mil is a lot. She will never make that much racing and who knows how long she will stay sound? Also, there is no guarantee that she will be the second coming of La Troienne. I would take the money and run.


I think I would too.....do you think because Jackson is buying her, he would be more likely to run her in aggressive spots and possibly longer like he did with Curlin? I would think so and with that price tag, he also may have more incentive to race her longer and get some purses....

[Jinxed]

Now there is a filly that can beat the boys. Her being in the Preakness would be great. I certainly wouldn't leave her out of a bet. She reminds me of Serena's Song, and they don't come along that often.

[Quagmire]

I wonder who Calvin would ride in the Preakness if true.

[GaryG]

I wonder who Calvin would ride in the Preakness if true.Robby A would probably ride RA for Asmussen.

[Quagmire]

she could make 2 million or more by the end of the year. she would definately be the favorite in both preakness and belmont.

personally, i hope if jackson gets the horse that steve asmussen trains her.

It looks like thats the plan.
http://www.drf.com/news/article/103544.html

[Quagmire]

It's a gamble but if they race her as a 4YO I could see her making at least half of that offer on the track. Hard to turn down 10M though.

[Watcher]

she could make 2 million or more by the end of the year. she would definately be the favorite in both preakness and belmont.

personally, i hope if jackson gets the horse that steve asmussen trains her.
http://www.drf.com/news/article/103544.html

Should a deal be struck, Steve Asmussen, who trained Curlin for Jackson, would take over the training of Rachel Alexandra, according to the source. Asmussen said Wednesday afternoon that he had not been told that the filly would be joining his stable.

[cj's dad]

The deal is done JJ refuses to confirm $10M and will leave it up to his trainer as to future plans

Currently airing on TVG

[Quagmire]

The deal is done JJ refuses to confirm $10M and will leave it up to his trainer as to future plans

Currently airing on TVG

Better Jackson than IEAH I guess.

[matthewsiv]

Is she in the midst of being sold and subsequently being entered in the Preakness and Belmont Stakes

TVG- Jess jackson @ $10 million

That is a lot of money for a filly.

Jackson was lucky with Curling,and good luck to him with this filly.
:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[KirisClown]

She reminds me of Serena's Song, and they don't come along that often.

She has a LONG way to go to come anywhere near the accomplishments of Serena's Song..

[Quagmire]

From Steve Crist's blog:

Another alternative, if the sale goes through, might be to skip the Preakness and then run her in the Belmont Stakes the same day. Rags to Riches won the Oaks and the Belmont in consecutive starts two years ago, nosing out the Jackson-owned Curlin in the latter race.

If she runs in the Preakness, jockey Calvin Borel would face a probably unprecedented choice between a Derby and Oaks winner. If she went straight to the Belmont, and Borel won the Preakness on Mine That Bird -- would he pass up a chance to win the Triple Crown to stick with a filly he has called "most probably, bar none, the best horse I have ever been on"?

[Bruddah]

I love this thread and topic. I am suprised that no one has mentioned breeding to Curlin. I do think, being the Sportsman he is, he keeps her racing thru next year and then breeds her to Curlin. :eek:

[fmolf]

Better Jackson than IEAH I guess.he will i hope run her but i do think his plan is to probably breed her numerous times to curlin and hope to have a precocious youngster to sell or race himself....ah money goes to money...you have to have it to make it!

[Dahoss9698]

he will i hope run her but i do think his plan is to probably breed her numerous times to curlin and hope to have a precocious youngster to sell or race himself....ah money goes to money...you have to have it to make it!

You don't pay 10 million for a filly to breed her.

[fmolf]

You don't pay 10 million for a filly to breed her.
after he runs her in the big races for a few years... i never heard that the price was officially 10 mil.

[Watcher]

I love this thread and topic. I am suprised that no one has mentioned breeding to Curlin. I do think, being the Sportsman he is, he keeps her racing thru next year and then breeds her to Curlin. :eek:

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090506/SPORTS08/90506035/1002/SPORTS/Oaks+winner+Rachel+Alexandra+sold+to+Jess+Jackson

"Jackson said that after her racing career, he will breed Rachel Alexandra to his two-time Horse of the Year Curlin."

[dutzman]

I feel bad for Calvin, because no way Assmussen keeps him on the horse......

[Dahoss9698]

I feel bad for Calvin, because no way Assmussen keeps him on the horse......

Why not?

[fmolf]

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090506/SPORTS08/90506035/1002/SPORTS/Oaks+winner+Rachel+Alexandra+sold+to+Jess+Jackson

"Jackson said that after her racing career, he will breed Rachel Alexandra to his two-time Horse of the Year Curlin."
i thought of breeding her right away to curlin but i think he will race her for a couple years and i did not read where the price was 10 mil...where did you read this?

[Watcher]

i thought of breeding her right away to curlin but i think he will race her for a couple years and i did not read where the price was 10 mil...where did you read this?
It was speculated to be $10 in an article by DRF, if I remember correctly.

[slewis]

When I first read this I laughed.


First of all, on the prospect of breeding her to Curlin..... I chuckled.

Then I looked at the cross.... it's pretty solid... not sensational... but solid..

It's Mr. Prospector../ Northern Dancer... and you cant go too wrong there.

Then there was the idea of racing in the Preakness....ouch...

Prior to this... and being associated with Musket Man...I thought...

There isn't a horse that scares me in the least....

Now.. here is my revision on that statement:

There isn't a colt or gelding that scares me in the least.

[LemonSoupKid]

The deal is through. Even with such a great horse, you can't turn down the big time money. This should be interesting from here on out.

LemonSoupKid

[Quagmire]

When I first read this I laughed.


First of all, on the prospect of breeding her to Curlin..... I chuckled.

Then I looked at the cross.... it's pretty solid... not sensational... but solid..

It's Mr. Prospector../ Northern Dancer... and you cant go too wrong there.

Then there was the idea of racing in the Preakness....ouch...

Prior to this... and being associated with Musket Man...I thought...

There isn't a horse that scares me in the least....

Now.. here is my revision on that statement:

There isn't a colt or gelding that scares me in the least.

I think she'll sit out the Preakness and go in the Belmont, and if she does run in Baltimore she skips the Belmont. Congrats on Musket Man!

[dutzman]

Why not?


Well, of course there is a chance. I am just assuming that the way these guys will roll with a $10 million is to put a top class jock on her who Asmussen regularly uses (Gomez/Albarado). I would argue that Borel is a top class jock...he is one of my favorites of all time, but he just never seems to get the respect he deserves. Maybe that changes this year with and Oaks win and his second Derby. I sure hope so, I would hate to see Calvin taken off the horse.........

Hopefully, I am 100% wrong!

[Jinxed]

Who says you don't pay that much for a filly to breed her. Serena's song has produced 6 offspring, 5 of which are winners. Heck, she's even a grandma too.

[Jinxed]

She has a LONG way to go to come anywhere near the accomplishments of Serena's Song..

No doubt she has a long way to go to be another Serena's Song. Did I have to say that this is the beginning of her career, and I think she could well turn out to be another Serena's Song? Would that be a better statement?

[Quagmire]

Anyone think that Asmussen can move her up any? I don't.

[sandpit]

I am probably gonna get bashed for this, but I think this news stinks. First, Calvin will probably lose the mount; how often does he use Borel? Second, the filly's new connections have nothing to do with her breeding/development as a racehorse, but they are gonna get the spotlight from here on out. So, I really feel bad for Hal Wiggins; all these years in the business and he finally gets a superstar, and boom, she's gone.
Third, we are gonna get to here Jackson tell us everything that is wrong with the sport while he races her for the next year or two; but if the previous owners had done the same thing, we may have heard nothing from them because of their low-key profile. Granted, Morrison said boy and girls should not race against each other, but that may have changed as she continued to dominate the fillies. We'll never know.
Lastly, how is changing the trainer and/or jockey gonna move this filly up in any possible way? Maybe some of Asmussen's magic potions will do the trick. The guy rivals some of your top cheaters in terms of suspensions.

Now that I've vented, I guess it was a simple business decision, and how could you pass up that kind of $$$? Tom McCarthy said it best before the Derby, "You don't sell a dream."

[Quagmire]

Better to sell too early than too late I guess. I feel bad for Wiggins as well, he deserves all the credit.

[fmolf]

I am probably gonna get bashed for this, but I think this news stinks. First, Calvin will probably lose the mount; how often does he use Borel? Second, the filly's new connections have nothing to do with her breeding/development as a racehorse, but they are gonna get the spotlight from here on out. So, I really feel bad for Hal Wiggins; all these years in the business and he finally gets a superstar, and boom, she's gone.
Third, we are gonna get to here Jackson tell us everything that is wrong with the sport while he races her for the next year or two; but if the previous owners had done the same thing, we may have heard nothing from them because of their low-key profile. Granted, Morrison said boy and girls should not race against each other, but that may have changed as she continued to dominate the fillies. We'll never know.
Lastly, how is changing the trainer and/or jockey gonna move this filly up in any possible way? Maybe some of Asmussen's magic potions will do the trick. The guy rivals some of your top cheaters in terms of suspensions.

Now that I've vented, I guess it was a simple business decision, and how could you pass up that kind of $$$? Tom McCarthy said it best before the Derby, "You don't sell a dream."
its always about the money

[Dahoss9698]

Who says you don't pay that much for a filly to breed her. Serena's song has produced 6 offspring, 5 of which are winners. Heck, she's even a grandma too.

I say you don't. What does Serena's Song have to do with anything? by the way, she's produced more than 6, but facts aren't your strong suit. You buy colts for that kind of money, because you can recoup it when they go to stud. It's a lot different with fillies. With colts, you get paid everytime they cover a mare that produces a live foal. See the difference?

[Dahoss9698]

I am probably gonna get bashed for this, but I think this news stinks. First, Calvin will probably lose the mount; how often does he use Borel? Second, the filly's new connections have nothing to do with her breeding/development as a racehorse, but they are gonna get the spotlight from here on out. So, I really feel bad for Hal Wiggins; all these years in the business and he finally gets a superstar, and boom, she's gone.
Third, we are gonna get to here Jackson tell us everything that is wrong with the sport while he races her for the next year or two; but if the previous owners had done the same thing, we may have heard nothing from them because of their low-key profile. Granted, Morrison said boy and girls should not race against each other, but that may have changed as she continued to dominate the fillies. We'll never know.
Lastly, how is changing the trainer and/or jockey gonna move this filly up in any possible way? Maybe some of Asmussen's magic potions will do the trick. The guy rivals some of your top cheaters in terms of suspensions.

Now that I've vented, I guess it was a simple business decision, and how could you pass up that kind of $$$? Tom McCarthy said it best before the Derby, "You don't sell a dream."

I'm sure Wiggins will be well compensated through this deal. The trainer usually is.

[PurplePower]

I love this thread and topic. I am suprised that no one has mentioned breeding to Curlin. I do think, being the Sportsman he is, he keeps her racing thru next year and then breeds her to Curlin. :eek:
This "sportsman" goes before Congress and says "Help us" clean up our sport -- then he buys the best 3-year old running (and, as much as I hate the sale for the sake of her previous connections (my son was her assistant trainer - so a definite personal bias too)) and gives her to a trainer that has already done one 6-month suspension for drugs and is scheduled for another one. Had he left her with a trainer that has not had as many suspension days in 40 years as SA had in one year, THEN I would have said he was a true SPORTSMAN that really wanted to "clean up this game". He wants to win and make money and he bought this filly with the hope that he can recoup his investment when her Curlin foal sells at Keeneland or, MAYBE, he will actually keep it and race it. Jess Jackson, Sportsman?? Bah, Humbug!!!

It is a business, and this happens all the time. Hell, someone sold this year's Derby winner for $9500 and that person sold him for $400,000. And, those SPORTSMEN are taking their little gelding to the Preakness.

[joanied]

I won't bash you, sandpit...I was stunned :eek: when I read about this...and don't know what to think...but, first of all, I also feel very bad for Wiggins...she's a once in a lifetime filly, and he's been at this game for a lifetime...so that part of the deal really sucks, IMO.
I don't know amything about her previous owners, except that they didn't plan on running her against the colts...but as mentioned, that may have changed somewhere down the road...as a business desision, they did good...that's an amazing amount of money:faint: ...if Jackson keeps her racing next year and she keeps winning, he'll get some of that back in earnings, then the rest will come as he breeds her...I wonder if they already had her vet checked for breeding soundness...probably, yes.

Then there is Calvin...and this one really gets to me because he loves that filly...Assmussen's go to guys won't love her...she'll just be another good mount. And, I'd bet RA loves Calvin...they have such a wonderful relationship...maybe some of you will laugh at that, but I beleive it to be true...horses do have their preferrances when it comes to the people they are around all the time...
maybe RA won't run the same with another jock on her back....and I hope to hell that Assmussen does the right thing and keeps Calvin on her.
I don't think any trainer could move her up...or do better than Wiggin's has been with her...she may be one of the ones, and they are usually easy to train because they are simply great horses. I hope to hell they don't start pumping her full of 'whatever'....Steve A ain't an alter boy, so that scares me a bit...although, I would hope Jackson will make sure she gets nothing but 'hay & oats'.

If she runs in the Preakness...well, IF Steve A lets him keep her, I beleive he'll choose to ride her...if she skips the Preakness and goes in the Belmont and The Bird wins the Preakness...now that would be extremely hard to decide...but I would assume Calvin would know wether or not The Bird really has a shot at the TC, and decide from that.

Geeze, "what a revoltin' development this is"...
this is sure going to make the rest of this season very interesting...and the bright side is that RA will get to show what she's made of in tougher spots...wonder if they'll go head hunting in CA and look for Zenyatta...WOW!

Bottom line for me is that I hope Calvin stays on her.

[Quagmire]

Calvin on Rachel = Passenger

Calvin on MTB = Pilot

[Smarty Cide]

Tom McCarthy said it best before the Derby, "You don't sell a dream."


great quote

[Jinxed]

Calvin on Rachel = Passenger

Calvin on MTB = Pilot


That is a great description, and why I put a lot of emphasis on the jockey as well as the horse. Some horses are so good they don't need a pilot, but others aren't. Without Calvin, MTB doesn't stand a chance in hell, and I didn't think he stood one anyway.

[matthewsiv]

Calvin on Rachel = Passenger

Calvin on MTB = Pilot

That is clever and funny
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[toussaud]

pilmco is probably pissing on themselves in excitment to get her in the preakness starting gate

[lamboguy]

i doubt if steve takes calvin off the horse. one thing about horseracing if you win on a stakes horse you hardly ever change riders. trainers yes riders no.

he never took robby off curlin. one thing about steve he does the right thing.

in this particular instance this is the bigest trainer change i have ever seen on a horse of this caliber in my life. i wonder how much steve can improve her.

[slewis]

This "sportsman" goes before Congress and says "Help us" clean up our sport -- then he buys the best 3-year old running (and, as much as I hate the sale for the sake of her previous connections (my son was her assistant trainer - so a definite personal bias too)) and gives her to a trainer that has already done one 6-month suspension for drugs and is scheduled for another one. Had he left her with a trainer that has not had as many suspension days in 40 years as SA had in one year, THEN I would have said he was a true SPORTSMAN that really wanted to "clean up this game". He wants to win and make money and he bought this filly with the hope that he can recoup his investment when her Curlin foal sells at Keeneland or, MAYBE, he will actually keep it and race it. Jess Jackson, Sportsman?? Bah, Humbug!!!

It is a business, and this happens all the time. Hell, someone sold this year's Derby winner for $9500 and that person sold him for $400,000. And, those SPORTSMEN are taking their little gelding to the Preakness.


Hey Purple,

Are you dare suggesting that the racing elite talk from of both sides of their mouth's????

Where have I heard this before??? ummm:rolleyes:

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[toussaud]

i doubt if steve takes calvin off the horse. one thing about horseracing if you win on a stakes horse you hardly ever change riders. trainers yes riders no.

he never took robby off curlin. one thing about steve he does the right thing.

in this particular instance this is the bigest trainer change i have ever seen on a horse of this caliber in my life. i wonder how much steve can improve her.


i do agree, hal's a nice guy, but I think steve is a cut above as far as training ability

[Jinxed]

i do agree, hal's a nice guy, but I think steve is a cut above as far as training ability

He's definitely a cut above. He gives the horses special "treats." :lol: He really is a super guy.

[toussaud]

He's definitely a cut above. He gives the horses special "treats." :lol: He really is a super guy.

say what you want about the guy but the guy can train his ass off. so he got caught bending the rules. I mean it's not right, but that does not mean he can't train.

[Jinxed]

say what you want about the guy but the guy can train his ass off. so he got caught bending the rules. I mean it's not right, but that does not mean he can't train.

Your opinion is yours. I'm still trying to make sense of "Pimlico pissing itself" :lol:

[Grits]

I guess we can assume you're as familiar with Steve, as you are with Jeff, and Andy.


He's definitely a cut above. He gives the horses special "treats." :lol: He really is a super guy.

[Jinxed]

I guess we can assume you're as familiar with Steve, as you are with Jeff, and Andy.

I'm familiar with trainers that are bending the rules, and ruining the game. I don't have to know all of these trainers to know what is a known fact in the world of racing. I met Andy and Beyer one time...big deal. I don't think that gives me familiarity with either of them Thank God.

[Relwob Owner]

Is she in the midst of being sold and subsequently being entered in the Preakness and Belmont Stakes

TVG- Jess jackson @ $10 million


Question for you guys....I was up at Charlestown and they announced the RA deal and they said specifically that the owners said they were running RA through this year only and then breeding her....any confirmation on this? Sorry if I am behind a bit if this has already been confirmed...

[matthewsiv]

Question for you guys....I was up at Charlestown and they announced the RA deal and they said specifically that the owners said they were running RA through this year only and then breeding her....any confirmation on this? Sorry if I am behind a bit if this has already been confirmed...

On the Bloodhorse site and DRF site.

Racing and then visiting Curlin.

JJ has a partner in the filly.

[toussaud]

I really don't have much of a problem with that. It's kinda like Zarkava. if she does what I thnk she will do this year.. I mean what else does she need to do?
say she earns horse of the year. that's a going out party for ya.

she will probably race 4 more times, and I would expect the majorty of those 4 times to be against the opposite sex

[Relwob Owner]

On the Bloodhorse site and DRF site.

Racing and then visiting Curlin.

JJ has a partner in the filly.


Good deal...I did read both of those articles but saw nothing about the only running through her 3 year old year angle....but it wouldnt be the first time I heard info at CT that wasnt true....

[westny]

Calvin on Rachel = Passenger

Calvin on MTB = Pilot

Clever....but I think you'll have to revise:

Albarado - Passenger
Borel - Pilot

[PaceAdvantage]

Better Jackson than IEAH I guess.Why? They both employ trainers who have been tagged multiple times for medication violations. Why is one better than the other?

They both go out and buy their way into big events. Why is one better than the other?

If you're going to dump on IEAH, find a better platform to do it from than a guy (Jess Jackson) who is basically practicing the same brand of medicine (no pun intended).

[NY BRED]

While it is doubtful, in my mind, Borel will get the mount
by Mr A., it would be a real blow to this jock if he did get to ride
Rachel in the Belmont and lose to say, Mine That Bird.

And, the reverse of this vision would be just as bad..


If I saw this plot in the movies I'd be telling my wife this could never happen in
the real world of racing, but then again what is real in today's world?

:confused: :bang:

[depalma113]

Why? They both employ trainers who have been tagged multiple times for medication violations. Why is one better than the other?

They both go out and buy their way into big events. Why is one better than the other?

If you're going to dump on IEAH, find a better platform to do it from than a guy (Jess Jackson) who is basically practicing the same brand of medicine (no pun intended).

The big difference is Jackson buys horses to race. He was probably willing to fork over $10 million dollars because of that silly statement the horse's previous owner made after the Oaks.

Rachel Alexandra has earned the right to face colts. At least we have an owner now who is willing to give her that chance. I don't beleive for a minute that IEAH would take that chance. It is not their business model.

[Backwheel]

I think 10 mil is a lot. She will never make that much racing and who knows how long she will stay sound? Also, there is no guarantee that she will be the second coming of La Troienne. I would take the money and run.


10 million is a lot, but for Jess Jackson it's a drop in the bucket..he just wants a great horse and to breed her to Curlin

[Quagmire]

Why? They both employ trainers who have been tagged multiple times for medication violations. Why is one better than the other?

They both go out and buy their way into big events. Why is one better than the other?

If you're going to dump on IEAH, find a better platform to do it from than a guy (Jess Jackson) who is basically practicing the same brand of medicine (no pun intended).

I have no problem with the way IEAH does business. I was referring to the bad luck they have had recently with IWR and Stardom Bound.

[sandpit]

The big difference is Jackson buys horses to race. He was probably willing to fork over $10 million dollars because of that silly statement the horse's previous owner made after the Oaks.

Rachel Alexandra has earned the right to face colts. At least we have an owner now who is willing to give her that chance. I don't beleive for a minute that IEAH would take that chance. It is not their business model.

I may be wrong with this, but wasn't IEAH talking about running Stardom Bound in the Derby if she progressed during the Spring? And it was Frankel who was tempering the enthusiasm after she eked out a win in the SA Oaks.

[cj]

Why? They both employ trainers who have been tagged multiple times for medication violations. Why is one better than the other?

They both go out and buy their way into big events. Why is one better than the other?

If you're going to dump on IEAH, find a better platform to do it from than a guy (Jess Jackson) who is basically practicing the same brand of medicine (no pun intended).

Well, Jackson spends his own money as an individual, so I would think that is a little different.

[Relwob Owner]

The big difference is Jackson buys horses to race. He was probably willing to fork over $10 million dollars because of that silly statement the horse's previous owner made after the Oaks.

Rachel Alexandra has earned the right to face colts. At least we have an owner now who is willing to give her that chance. I don't beleive for a minute that IEAH would take that chance. It is not their business model.



I am confused....what about IEAH's business model would keep them from buying Rachel Alexandra and running her against the boys or in the Preakness? Didnt they buy Stardom Bound with the idea of pointing her to the Derby if possible?

RA seemed to fit right into IEAH's model....buy a high profile horse(Rachel Alexandra) and run her in a high profile race(The Preakness)

[slewis]

Well, Jackson spends his own money as an individual, so I would think that is a little different.


Correct,

If Jackson's endeavours fail..... he's ok......

If IEAH's fail... Iavarone cant play the game any more.....

It's IEAH that's under much much more pressure to produce...

I think most on PA are suggesting the opposite... that for IEAH it's all fun and games with everyone else's money.

[matthewsiv]

Correct,

If Jackson's endeavours fail..... he's ok......

If IEAH's fail... Iavarone cant play the game any more.....

It's IEAH that's under much much more pressure to produce...

I think most on PA are suggesting the opposite... that for IEAH it's all fun and games with everyone else's money.

Slewis

We agree on something.

You are 100% correct.
:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[joanied]

i doubt if steve takes calvin off the horse. one thing about horseracing if you win on a stakes horse you hardly ever change riders. trainers yes riders no.

he never took robby off curlin. one thing about steve he does the right thing.

in this particular instance this is the bigest trainer change i have ever seen on a horse of this caliber in my life. i wonder how much steve can improve her.

If you guys haven't seen this report...there's a couple of interesting quotes...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/sports/othersports/07racing.html?_r=1&ref=sports



"Her previous owners, Dolphus Morrison and Mike Lauffer, said they were not interested in running Rachel Alexandra against the boys. Jackson said he was considering their wishes. Still, Jackson’s purchase sets up an uncomfortable situation for jockey Calvin Borel, who rode the 50-1 long shot Mine That Bird (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/m/mine_that_bird_race_horse/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) to a Derby victory and also won the Oaks on Rachel Alexandra."
Let's hope Jackson is simply considering but will run her with the colts...
After the Derby, he said he would ride the filly if given a choice between the two.

“I’d ride her,” he said. “I think she’s the best horse in the country right now.”
I hope Steve A gives Calvin the choice, lamboguy...I suppsoe SA could have pulled Robby off Curlin...so, I hope you are right that SA will do the right thing by Calvin...

On another note, still about RA...that 10 million seems wrong for her purchase price...now they say it's between 3 and 4 million...whch sounds more realistic to me!
:)

[MickJ26]

From Steve Crist's blog:

Another alternative, if the sale goes through, might be to skip the Preakness and then run her in the Belmont Stakes the same day. Rags to Riches won the Oaks and the Belmont in consecutive starts two years ago, nosing out the Jackson-owned Curlin in the latter race.

If she runs in the Preakness, jockey Calvin Borel would face a probably unprecedented choice between a Derby and Oaks winner. If she went straight to the Belmont, and Borel won the Preakness on Mine That Bird -- would he pass up a chance to win the Triple Crown to stick with a filly he has called "most probably, bar none, the best horse I have ever been on"?


Looks like either way she'll be at Belmont Park on June 6th.

[toussaud]

If you guys haven't seen this report...there's a couple of interesting quotes...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/sports/othersports/07racing.html?_r=1&ref=sports



"Her previous owners, Dolphus Morrison and Mike Lauffer, said they were not interested in running Rachel Alexandra against the boys. Jackson said he was considering their wishes. Still, Jackson’s purchase sets up an uncomfortable situation for jockey Calvin Borel, who rode the 50-1 long shot Mine That Bird (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/m/mine_that_bird_race_horse/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) to a Derby victory and also won the Oaks on Rachel Alexandra."
Let's hope Jackson is simply considering but will run her with the colts...
After the Derby, he said he would ride the filly if given a choice between the two.

“I’d ride her,” he said. “I think she’s the best horse in the country right now.”
I hope Steve A gives Calvin the choice, lamboguy...I suppsoe SA could have pulled Robby off Curlin...so, I hope you are right that SA will do the right thing by Calvin...

On another note, still about RA...that 10 million seems wrong for her purchase price...now they say it's between 3 and 4 million...whch sounds more realistic to me!
:)


I think it's somewhere in the middle. 3 million is highway robbery, if he was that cash starved he could have held out utnil the november sale and got more than 3-4 million if stardom bound can bring 5.7

think about it. 4 mil. he already sold half of RA for 1.5. so you are already splitting it in half. so 2 million. then you pay hal 10% so 1.8 million. I don't see him selling RA for 1.8 million dollars. a RA/AP Indy mating could make that back on one foal.

I think it's closer to but not quite 10 million

[ezrabrooks]

i doubt if steve takes calvin off the horse. one thing about horseracing if you win on a stakes horse you hardly ever change riders. trainers yes riders no.

he never took robby off curlin. one thing about steve he does the right thing.

in this particular instance this is the bigest trainer change i have ever seen on a horse of this caliber in my life. i wonder how much steve can improve her.

Albarado rides a lot for Asmussen (from memory)...but, not sure about Borel. Does Borel get many of Asmussen's mounts?

Ez

[FantasticDan]

If Rachel were to run in the Preakness, she'd undoubtedly be the betting fave, yes? I'd be surprised if she were anything better than 9/5.

[812crew]

Preakness bound! With Borel as Jockey:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/50683/borel-commits-to-rachel-filly-to-preakness

[Show Me the Wire]

I don't understand why everybody is concerned about the ownership change of RA and her new trainer. Horse racing is a business first and a sport second. Horses are a commodity and everyone has its price tag.

The new connections bought the horse, because they beleive they can make a profit by making her more valuable. The speculation should be how do you increase her worth and for what. Do you want to increase her worth as a racehorse, increase it as a potential broodmare, or do you think she is valuable enough for you to breed to your own stallion to race your own stock. She is a filly and can only produce one foal per season.

Maybe retirement would be better for the sport as she may produce some great future perfromances, without having to risk life threatening injuries that are possible every time a horse races. But of course foaling has its own dangers.

Bottom line let the investors decide how they want to risk their investment to maximixe value. What is good for the sport is never considered in an investment of this magnitude, only how do I maximze my return on investment.

[W2G]

Preakness bound! With Borel as Jockey:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/50683/borel-commits-to-rachel-filly-to-preakness

I have to assume that a rider jumping off the Derby winner to ride a rival in Baltimore is unprecedented. Anyone know for sure?

[sonnyp]

I have to assume that a rider jumping off the Derby winner to ride a rival in Baltimore is unprecedented. Anyone know for sure?

first time ever. "the times......they are a-changin!!!"

[Smarty Cide]

gotta figure she will be the favorite

[SmartyLane]

I know this is very early/premature but what does some of you think her odds would go off at? I do believe she will probably be the favorite with POTN, Papa Clem, close behind. MTB somewhere about 3rd-4th probably. My thoughts, yours?

[Zenyatta To Crush]

I know this is very early/premature but what does some of you think her odds would go off at? I do believe she will probably be the favorite with POTN, Papa Clem, close behind. MTB somewhere about 3rd-4th probably. My thoughts, yours?
As much as I want to throw my entire bankroll on her, she will be extremely overbet. I'm guessing her final odds will be around 4/5. In my mind, she wins this race 75% of the time, so maybe 4/5 aren't the worst odds in the world. If you want to try to beat her, you'll get great prices on everyone else. I'm thinking Musket Man might run big again at around 15-1.

[Show Me the Wire]

Why should she go off as the favorite? Do you think the former connections knew something when they said she belongs with her own sex? Isn't the female horse historically at a disadvantage running against the males? I know there are exceptions, with the most rececnt one Rags to Riches. The most recent TC race was Eight Belles. That one did not end well.

Just based on history, and leaving out the previous's reluctance to run her against the boys, why would the female horse be favored?

Just asking?

[sonnyp]

we should not forget one major factor about her running. she was NOT nominated to the triple crown races, therefore, she must be supplimented.

should 14 others enter, who were nominated, she's OUT !

it seems as though more have commited in recent days.

anyone keeping tabs on those that are likely ???

[Smarty Cide]

i love musket man. if i can get 15-1 im putting $200 to show

[Zenyatta To Crush]

Why should she go off as the favorite? Do you think the former connections knew something when they said she belongs with her own sex? Isn't the female horse historically at a disadvantage running against the males? I know there are exceptions, with the most rececnt one Rags to Riches. The most recent TC race was Eight Belles. That one did not end well.

Just based on history, and leaving out the previous's reluctance to run her against the boys, why would the female horse be favored?

Just asking?
She should go off as favorite because she has been destroying weaker competition with ease and still running fast times. There is way too much hype on her not to make her favorite. Her previous owners were being extra careful with her. Had she won a few more races against her own gender, they would've eventually given into the pressure of running her against males.

For those who think Rachel has been beating up on allowance fillies...sure a lot of them aren't quality stakes horses, but Just Jenda and Four Gifts came back to run 1-2. Also, Afleet Deceit, who Rachel has crushed twice now, came back to run a great race beating Hooh Why on the polytrack. She has yet to face the kind of competition she'll see in the Preakness, but I have no doubt she can be successful.

Everyone has the fear of another filly breakdown against the males, but the Eight Belles tragedy isn't that common. The odds of it happening aren't very high. How do you know that Eight Belles wouldn't have broken down against older female horses later in the year? I look at it like this...the 2 last fillies to try the males in triple crown races have basically succeeded.

[ghostyapper]

I will be licking my chops to bet others if this filly goes off odds on favorite first time against the boys and first time a distance this far.

[ghostyapper]

but the Eight Belles tragedy isn't that common. The odds of it happening aren't very high.

Its also not common to run a top filly against the boys, at least in america it isn't so its not fair to rule out the Eight Belles incident because its "not common"

[Show Me the Wire]

Actually, if you do your research you will see, it is unfortunately too common for top female horses to breakdown competing against the top boys.

European racing is a different story.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

Actually, if you do your research you will see, it is unfortunately too common for top female horses to breakdown competing against the top boys.

European racing is a different story.
I would like to see some statistics of female horses breaking down running against the males. I actually don't have any proof of it being uncommon, but I just believe that the people who don't watch racing very often who happened to see the Eight Belles breakdown, think the risk of a breakdown is significantly higher when a female horse runs against the males. It may be higher, but I can't imagine it being that much higher.

[Show Me the Wire]

Let's put it this way. The previous connections did not want to risk racing her against the boys. Nuff said.

[Zenyatta To Crush]

It seems to me that the trainer would know the horse better than the owners. If the owners were torn whether to nominate her to the TC, Wiggins probably would've swayed them into entering the derby. He even said right after the Oaks that the Belmont was a possibility, but the owners wanted no part of that. I'm glad these owners are gone, they obviously care more about choosing easier spots and making safe cash. There is no chance I'd sell her if I was owner, unless of course Shiek Muhammed offered something ridiculous like 100 million.

[matthewsiv]

i love musket man. if i can get 15-1 im putting $200 to show

He will be the horse who gives her a run for her money.

[sandpit]

Horse racing is a business first and a sport second. Horses are a commodity and everyone has its price tag.

This may be true, but it is not always the case. Harry Aleo, the owner of Lost in the Fog, was asked why he didn't sell his colt when he was offered multi-millions for him. He responded, I've waited all my life for a horse like this, what the hell would I do with the money, go buy another one?

None of us know the circumstances surrounding the sale of RA, but I'm sure the underlying current of discomfort is because the story has lost some of its "warm and fuzzy" feeling that you don't get from the Jackson-Asmussen connections.

If anybody is in a position to judge the qualities of Mine That Bird vs. Rachel Alexandra, it's Borel. And if he has committed to ride a filly that blew away a moderate group vs. a gelding that had to come from last in a 19 horse field, I'd say it's a pretty strong endorsement for RA's talent. If she does run, every woman at Pimlico will bet on her and she will be the favorite at post time.

[Grits]

I have to assume that a rider jumping off the Derby winner to ride a rival in Baltimore is unprecedented. Anyone know for sure?

With a little help from a former editor friend who has been watching and wagering on the game for 45 years, he notes a bit of history from racing columnist, Bill Christine.

********************************

A little explicative history from Bill Christine:


Quote:

In all the years the Preakness has been run after the Derby, this will be only the fourth time that a Derby winner picks up a new jockey in the Preakness. The last time was 1945, when Eddie Arcaro underwent an appendectomy after the Derby and Al Snider took over for Hoop Jr.'s second-place run at Pimlico. In 1936, the Churchill Downs stewards were unhappy about Babe Hanford's rough but winning ride aboard Bold Venture, but they still didn't disqualify the colt. The stewards reportedly told Hanford that if he attempted to ride Bold Venture back in the Preakness, they would suspend him. There was never a ruling, just an understanding between the parties. George Woolf rode Bold Venture as he won the Preakness.

In 1933, Don Meade, aboard Brokers Tip, and Herb Fisher, riding Head Play, literally slugged it out in the stretch of the Derby. They tried to pull one another out of the saddle. Brokers Tip won by a nose, and afterward the stewards, unable to isolate culpability, suspended both riders. Joe Smith rode Brokers Tip to a 10th-place finish in the Preakness, which was won by Head Play with Charles Kurtsinger deputizing for Fisher.

In 1948, Snider was lost at sea, along with the trainer Tobe Trotter and Don Frazier, a Canadian who was their host for a fishing trip in the Gulf of Mexico. Frazier had first asked Arcaro to come along, but he was too busy with stakes assignments at Santa Anita. "Get Al Snider," Arcaro told Frazier. "He loves to go fishing."

[fmolf]

This may be true, but it is not always the case. Harry Aleo, the owner of Lost in the Fog, was asked why he didn't sell his colt when he was offered multi-millions for him. He responded, I've waited all my life for a horse like this, what the hell would I do with the money, go buy another one?

None of us know the circumstances surrounding the sale of RA, but I'm sure the underlying current of discomfort is because the story has lost some of its "warm and fuzzy" feeling that you don't get from the Jackson-Asmussen connections.

If anybody is in a position to judge the qualities of Mine That Bird vs. Rachel Alexandra, it's Borel. And if he has committed to ride a filly that blew away a moderate group vs. a gelding that had to come from last in a 19 horse field, I'd say it's a pretty strong endorsement for RA's talent. If she does run, every woman at Pimlico will bet on her and she will be the favorite at post time.i hope she is i think they are bringing her back to quickly...

[Show Me the Wire]

sandpit;

Jocks make wrong choices all the time. Not saying that RA isn't worthy of the hype, but a jock choosing to ride for a large sucessfull outfit's star versus riding for a small barn's star is not a great measuring stick for differentiang the horses.

Yes, there are exceptions to all rules. However, it is a business where generally every commodity has its price and horse are fragile perishable commodities.

[ezrabrooks]

I like this filly. Her Oaks was impressive, but, she will not have every thing her own way in Baltimore. If she wins, I am onboard and wish her the best.....but I see more downside than up.

Ez

[joanied]

i doubt if steve takes calvin off the horse. one thing about horseracing if you win on a stakes horse you hardly ever change riders. trainers yes riders no.

he never took robby off curlin. one thing about steve he does the right thing.

in this particular instance this is the bigest trainer change i have ever seen on a horse of this caliber in my life. i wonder how much steve can improve her.

Hey Lambo...right on...Calvin keeps RA...and I agree, Wiggins & Assmussen...night and day...and I hope Steve A can improove on her because 'they' are all going to be gunning for her and The Bird come Preakness day...I beleive RA is going to be in her first real race:)

[joanied]

10 million is a lot, but for Jess Jackson it's a drop in the bucket..he just wants a great horse and to breed her to Curlin

I think that 10 million was a bit on the high side...I heard on HRTV that Jackson paid between 3 & 4 million...still, that's a chunk of change:eek:

[matthewsiv]

I think that 10 million was a bit on the high side...I heard on HRTV that Jackson paid between 3 & 4 million...still, that's a chunk of change:eek:
Joanie

That is not too many bottle of Californian Cab for a Princess.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[joanied]

I think it's somewhere in the middle. 3 million is highway robbery, if he was that cash starved he could have held out utnil the november sale and got more than 3-4 million if stardom bound can bring 5.7

think about it. 4 mil. he already sold half of RA for 1.5. so you are already splitting it in half. so 2 million. then you pay hal 10% so 1.8 million. I don't see him selling RA for 1.8 million dollars. a RA/AP Indy mating could make that back on one foal.

I think it's closer to but not quite 10 million

Maybe so, toussaud...I watched HRTV yesterday morning and they quoted the 3-4 million...so, who knows...it'll come out eventually...oh, I wouldn't count on a RA/APIndy mating...she'll go to Curlin...and I'd bet Jackson keeps the foal...if it's a colt anyway. I also read that the 'nick' for RA/Curlin is quite good.

[joanied]

I know this is very early/premature but what does some of you think her odds would go off at? I do believe she will probably be the favorite with POTN, Papa Clem, close behind. MTB somewhere about 3rd-4th probably. My thoughts, yours?

Besides her race record and having Calvin on her...you can bet that every female at the Preakness is going to bet on her;)

[fmolf]

Hey Lambo...right on...Calvin keeps RA...and I agree, Wiggins & Assmussen...night and day...and I hope Steve A can improove on her because 'they' are all going to be gunning for her and The Bird come Preakness day...I beleive RA is going to be in her first real race:)
he'll probably keep him on till he loses....i think she is gonna have a rough go of it if she gets in...on another thread someone posted a scenario that went like this ...what if baffert or somebody else entered their triple crown nominated horse just to fill out the field and shut rachel out of the field!...would baffert or pletcher do it.....or any of the other trainers for that matter?....interesting right...would not be very sportsmanlike but perfectly legal!

[joanied]

Actually, if you do your research you will see, it is unfortunately too common for top female horses to breakdown competing against the top boys.

European racing is a different story.

Yes, like Zenyatta to crush...show me the stats. I can think of only 2 off hand...Eight Belles, which had zero to do with running with the colts...IMO, she just happened to find a bad spot on the track during her gallop out...she was pretty close to the outside rail when it happened and I beleive the track had some bad spots along that area...and the other was Ruffian...

[joanied]

Let's put it this way. The previous connections did not want to risk racing her against the boys. Nuff said.

OK, guess you can't come up with any stats to proove your statement.
:)

[SmartyLane]

I know times are hard to compare but when they are on the same track on back to back days it is a little more realistic to compare times. She ran 1:36 4/5 for the mile and finished up at 1:48 4/5......

In the derby they came through the mile at 1:37 3/5 and finished it at 2:02 3/5............

Hard for me not to believe she couldn't of continued another 1/16 in 14 seconds.

Maybe I am just hoping for a superstar but I really and truly believe she is THAT GOOD and will have no problem with the distance or coming back in 2 weeks.

I am hoping MTB can be up in front along with POTN. I think Papa Clem will be tough as well as Musket Man.

Can't for the race.

[joanied]

Joanie

That is not too many bottle of Californian Cab for a Princess.
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

mathewsiv...I am honored to have made your day;) ...thing is, I agree, it isn't too many bottles of Cal.Cab....for a Queen :)

[WinterTriangle]

I really don't have much of a problem with that. It's kinda like Zarkava. if she does what I thnk she will do this year.. I mean what else does she need to do?
say she earns horse of the year. that's a going out party for ya.

she will probably race 4 more times, and I would expect the majorty of those 4 times to be against the opposite sex

Aga Khan's unbeaten 'super-filly' Zarkava was retired following her victory in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe. She's a turf horse. Races against the boys.......on turf.

Are you talking about Zenyatta?

As for Steve Assmussen, Curlin would have done better with Helen Pitts, IMHO.

Steve didn't do so great at Oaklawn this year. :confused:

You know, we say there will never be another Secretariat. If you read about how his trainer worked with him, the horse had his undivided attention. Horses don't get that in the *large* barns. I like the smaller barns myself. To me, the stats of the big barns are skewed, i mean, you have hundreds of horses entered, so your ITM percentages go up. I study how many horses they have, then evaluate the stats appropriately.

[WinterTriangle]

OK, guess you can't come up with any stats to proove your statement.
:)

Ruffian. There have been other fillies who either never were the same afterward, or were barren afterward. Besides, like I said, US racing isn't European or Aussie racing. Different animal.

Now, as a horse person, would you agree that a filly or colt is not fully developed until at least age 4??? I'm sure you will.

So, the natural disadvantage of a filly racing against males is, therefore, magnified at age 3.

Along with the drugs, the inbreeding, the speed dominance, etc. I see no reason to *add* pushing the tolerance of their skeletal/muscular systems to the mix.

[newtothegame]

Aga Khan's unbeaten 'super-filly' Zarkava was retired following her victory in the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe. She's a turf horse. Races against the boys.......on turf.

Are you talking about Zenyatta?

As for Steve Assmussen, Curlin would have done better with Helen Pitts, IMHO.

Steve didn't do so great at Oaklawn this year. :confused:

You know, we say there will never be another Secretariat. If you read about how his trainer worked with him, the horse had his undivided attention. Horses don't get that in the *large* barns. I like the smaller barns myself. To me, the stats of the big barns are skewed, i mean, you have hundreds of horses entered, so your ITM percentages go up. I study how many horses they have, then evaluate the stats appropriately.


I agree with most you said winter with the exception of one.....I didn't follow what I have made bold from you. The more horses you have entered just means you have to hit the money alot more to keep your percentages up. Volume doesnt raise your percentages. Just means your have more horses.
For example to help clarify my position...if you have 100 horses and your ITM percentage is 15%, you would have to have 15 horses hit the board. If you have a 1000, you need 150 to maintain that 15%. So I am not following where you were going?

[newtothegame]

I agree with most you said winter with the exception of one.....I didn't follow what I have made bold from you. The more horses you have entered just means you have to hit the money alot more to keep your percentages up. Volume doesnt raise your percentages. Just means your have more horses.
For example to help clarify my position...if you have 100 horses and your ITM percentage is 15%, you would have to have 15 horses hit the board. If you have a 1000, you need 150 to maintain that 15%. So I am not following where you were going?

I would probably even go one step further and suggest to you that the smaller barns numbers from a percentage standpoint could be skewed alot more then a larger barn. If a smaller barn were to get lucky a few times ( ie have only ten horses and have say two hit the money...thats a whopping 20%), and have thewir numbers skewed alot more then a larger barn. If you were only observing percentages in a form and saw a higher percentage say 50% (but you didnt notice the guy only had two horses and one of them got ITM at fairmount park) versus an amussen horse where his percentage ITM might be closer to 30%....well you see how it could be misconstrued. I believe this is why most people when "testing" their programs and what no ALWAYS require a LARGER sample as it is much more reflective of realistic percentages.

P.S nothing against Fairmount Park horses :lol:

[fmolf]

I would probably even go one step further and suggest to you that the smaller barns numbers from a percentage standpoint could be skewed alot more then a larger barn. If a smaller barn were to get lucky a few times ( ie have only ten horses and have say two hit the money...thats a whopping 20%), and have thewir numbers skewed alot more then a larger barn. If you were only observing percentages in a form and saw a higher percentage say 50% (but you didnt notice the guy only had two horses and one of them got ITM at fairmount park) versus an amussen horse where his percentage ITM might be closer to 30%....well you see how it could be misconstrued. I believe this is why most people when "testing" their programs and what no ALWAYS require a LARGER sample as it is much more reflective of realistic percentages.

P.S nothing against Fairmount Park horses :lol:
i look more to a barns roi with a particular angle..... most racing statistics fall into a broad and general area around 10% to 20% unless their is a large ,large statistical amt in the %'s their is basically no difference from 12% to 18%..with a with a 25 horse sample one trainer won three the other won 2... in most cases i would look for the trainer with the higher roi which means his horses are getting better odds

[joanied]

he'll probably keep him on till he loses....i think she is gonna have a rough go of it if she gets in...on another thread someone posted a scenario that went like this ...what if baffert or somebody else entered their triple crown nominated horse just to fill out the field and shut rachel out of the field!...would baffert or pletcher do it.....or any of the other trainers for that matter?....interesting right...would not be very sportsmanlike but perfectly legal!

Gary Stute actually called Baffert to see if he didn't have another colt to enter so RA won't get in:eek: :D

[joanied]

Ruffian. There have been other fillies who either never were the same afterward, or were barren afterward. Besides, like I said, US racing isn't European or Aussie racing. Different animal.

Now, as a horse person, would you agree that a filly or colt is not fully developed until at least age 4??? I'm sure you will.

So, the natural disadvantage of a filly racing against males is, therefore, magnified at age 3.

Along with the drugs, the inbreeding, the speed dominance, etc. I see no reason to *add* pushing the tolerance of their skeletal/muscular systems to the mix.

Winter...yep, it's a scientific fact that horses, colts or fillies, are not fully developed until they are 4 years old. RA was foaled Jan 29th...she's just about 4 months into her 3rd year (she's older than a few of the Derby colts)...all the 3 yr olds are still developing, so I suppose we could call it 'even'...as far as actual age and development between RA and the colts she'll face in the Preakness, they are all on the same page...she's 'older' than Pioneer and probably several other colts.
At this point in time, there really is no disadvantage between RA and the colts as far as bone/tendon/muscular development goes...then, needless to say, you'd have to toss in the element of the 'individual' horses...each will have devloped at a different rate, so it's kinda hard to make an argument that a 3 yr old filly is at a disadvantage to a 3 yr old colt...and they way she's built, she sure looks stronger and more imposing than most of the colts.

Not sure if all that helps or not...but, there ya go:)

[PurplePower]

Winter...yep, it's a scientific fact that horses, colts or fillies, are not fully developed until they are 4 years old. RA was foaled Jan 29th...she's just about 4 months into her 3rd year (she's older than a few of the Derby colts)...all the 3 yr olds are still developing, so I suppose we could call it 'even'...... they are all on the same page.......there really is no disadvantage between RA and the colts as far as bone/tendon/muscular development goes...then, needless to say, you'd have to toss in the element of the 'individual' horses...each will have devloped at a different rate, so it's kinda hard to make an argument that a 3 yr old filly is at a disadvantage to a 3 yr old colt...and they way she's built, she sure looks stronger and more imposing than most of the colts...........:)
So, what do you think is the reason she will carry 5 pounds less than the males she faces in the Preakness? The Rules of Racing REQUIRE that 2-year old fillies carry 3 pounds less than their male counterparts and older females carry 5 pounds less from January 1 through August 31 and 3 pounds less the last 4 months of a year.

[joanied]

Ruffian. There have been other fillies who either never were the same afterward, or were barren afterward. Besides, like I said, US racing isn't European or Aussie racing. Different animal.

Now, as a horse person, would you agree that a filly or colt is not fully developed until at least age 4??? I'm sure you will.

So, the natural disadvantage of a filly racing against males is, therefore, magnified at age 3.

Along with the drugs, the inbreeding, the speed dominance, etc. I see no reason to *add* pushing the tolerance of their skeletal/muscular systems to the mix.

WT...you do realize I was referring to 'Show me the Wire's' post...about coming up with the stats that proove his statement?
:) :) :) :)

[judd]

its great shes entered-will be heavy fav---she wont win

[sonnyp]

its great shes entered-will be heavy fav---she wont win

really do not believe she will be the heavy favorite with POTN,MUSKET MAN,PAPA CLEM and possibly FREISAN FIRE in there.

[goforgin]

its great shes entered-will be heavy fav---she wont win
I agree- I agree-- I disagree. Our sport needs her, she will be the heavy favorite, but I disagree, she will win. She is not unique. Genuine Risk, Eight Belles, Winning Colors, Rags to Riches, etc. However, she is heads and shoulders above this group, at least in this "slice in time". The pre-Derby favorites have fallen along the wayside. We're left with a 50-1 gelded Derby winner from Sunland Park and a bunch of the usual suspects. She will win the Preakness, not by 20 lengths, but by a good 2 to 5. She is that much better. Compared to this group, again at this point and time, she is a "Monster". Scary, scary, scary.

[GaryG]

I just hope she comes out of the race healthy. Losing her at this point, given the attitude of the media, would be an absolute killer.

[joanied]

So, what do you think is the reason she will carry 5 pounds less than the males she faces in the Preakness? The Rules of Racing REQUIRE that 2-year old fillies carry 3 pounds less than their male counterparts and older females carry 5 pounds less from January 1 through August 31 and 3 pounds less the last 4 months of a year.

Oh, I don't know...because all through history females have been considered the weaker sex:faint: ;) ...just kidding:D ....rules are rules, and I completely agree with the weight for age rule...but I do really think that the weight allowance rules for fillies/colts were made at a time when females were simply considered no match for the males (regardless of the sport)...and if you think about it, in the case of RA (and any other filly as good as she is),does she need to carry less weight to be competitive with the colts? IMO...no. But if she gets in, and wins, in a fairly close one, a lot of folks will say it was the 5 lbs that allowed her to win...IMO, if that is how it ends up at the wire...she will have still won at even weights.
Take two horses of the same height and build, each weighs 1,000 lbs...one's a filly, one's a colt...ask them each to do the exact same thing...run a mile or, for the sake of argument, pull a weighted wagon on skids...I would be willing to bet that the filly will run as fast, stay as long or get the wagon pulled the same distance as the colt.
Back in the days when we farmed with horse teams...they all did the exact same work, and some teams were geldings, some teams were mares...
:) :) :)

PS...I weigh in at around 120lbs...about 25 years ago, I was probably weighing a little less...I have always worked at jobs that men generally took...and this is simply to make a point about females/males...I worked for Burlington-Northern Rail Road...as a 'gandy dancer'...I worked out on the tracks...pulling up the old rails and laying down new rails...it was me, one other woman (she was a big one) and 35 men...and I did everything the guys did...everything and needed no help. :jump:

[joanied]

I just hope she comes out of the race healthy. Losing her at this point, given the attitude of the media, would be an absolute killer.

Why would you say that... because RA is a filly...are filles the only horses to break down? Wouldn't it be possible for one of the colts to break down...
don't you think most folks watching the Preakness will be thinking about Barbaro?

I hope they ALL come under the wire safe & sound...isn't that better:)

[GaryG]

Why would you say that... because RA is a filly...are filles the only horses to break down? Wouldn't it be possible for one of the colts to break down...
don't you think most folks watching the Preakness will be thinking about Barbaro?

I hope they ALL come under the wire safe & sound...isn't that better:)I think racing against colts is more stressful. Take a good look at Rags in the Belmont....she was done after that race. I'm just saying that after the media frenzy over the Eight Belles tragedy we just can't have another.

[Imriledup]

Why? They both employ trainers who have been tagged multiple times for medication violations. Why is one better than the other?

They both go out and buy their way into big events. Why is one better than the other?

If you're going to dump on IEAH, find a better platform to do it from than a guy (Jess Jackson) who is basically practicing the same brand of medicine (no pun intended).

The difference is that IEAH's main trainer is a guy who's hard to like. At least the Jess Jackson's main trainer isn't going out of his way to insult at least one person on every interview he gives.

[sonnyp]

I think racing against colts is more stressful. Take a good look at Rags in the Belmont....she was done after that race. I'm just saying that after the media frenzy over the Eight Belles tragedy we just can't have another.

top, top mares are few and far between. but when they appear, IMHO, they are the toughest creature in racing to beat.

ta wee, shuvee, winning colors, ruffian, safely kept, personnel ensign, rags to riches and on and on.

a lot of them are "witches" or the same word starting with a "b" and they take that attitude to the track.

mean, bad attitude and tough as nails.

[Relwob Owner]

top, top mares are few and far between. but when they appear, IMHO, they are the toughest creature in racing to beat.

ta wee, shuvee, winning colors, ruffian, safely kept, personnel ensign, rags to riches and on and on.

a lot of them are "witches" or the same word starting with a "b" and they take that attitude to the track.

mean, bad attitude and tough as nails.

Thank you for bringing up Safely Kept and bringing back great memories....loved that horse and she is often forgotten in discussions

[sonnyp]

Thank you for bringing up Safely Kept and bringing back great memories....loved that horse and she is often forgotten in discussions

wonderful, wonderful mare. who could ever forget her race against european sensation dajur ???

[joanied]

I think racing against colts is more stressful. Take a good look at Rags in the Belmont....she was done after that race. I'm just saying that after the media frenzy over the Eight Belles tragedy we just can't have another.

Absolutely...we can't have another...but being a filly, IMO has nothing to do with the possibility of a breakdown in the Preakness...or in any race for that matter.
Is the stress factor you are talkin' about for the people involved...or for RA...if it's for RA, I think the stress she'll be going through is the move to a new barn, racing again in 2 weeks and that if she runs, she'll only have enough time at Pimlico to gallop maybe twice on the surface.

[joanied]

top, top mares are few and far between. but when they appear, IMHO, they are the toughest creature in racing to beat.

ta wee, shuvee, winning colors, ruffian, safely kept, personnel ensign, rags to riches and on and on.

a lot of them are "witches" or the same word starting with a "b" and they take that attitude to the track.

mean, bad attitude and tough as nails.

Agreed:ThmbUp: ...ah, Safely Kept....incredible mare:) , another that is forgotten, Beautiful Pleasure:) ...you are right on about great race mares and that 'attitude'.... Rags was not going to let Curlin get by...if you look at photos of that finish, you can see it in her face...great stuff:jump: