Why The Decrease in Derby Card Handle?

[Watcher]

You thoughts?

[Tom]

The economy.
Too many people out of work.

[miesque]

I voted the economy but I don't think that was the only factor, I think the offtrack conditions had to contribute at least partially. I may be in the minority, but I pretty much always pare back my wager when the track is sloppy/muddy (whereas on a synthetic track I will bet at full strength no matter what the weather conditions) and I did so yesterday (in retrospect I should have pared a lot more since the Derby results blew such a big chunk of my bets :D )

[hencicleva]

Isn't it always tough to handicap? Sort of related to this issue I heard an interesting comment on the radio. When licensing the TV coverage Churchill Downs should insist that the payouts are superimposed on all TV replays. It doesn't sound much to say the winner paid $100 but if the general public sees $1 Super paid $225,000 they might take a little more interest in the potential of this game.

[toussaud]

handle will go down when you spend days if not months handicapping a race and the two logical choices are scratched. I am willing to bet that the majority of the money not wagered came from actual horse players.

I was going to put a grand on quality road. I think I ended up playing like 100 bucks just for the hell of it instead.

[andymays]

Some of the headliners being scratched was a problem.

Off track was a problem.

Not having 10 cent supers was a problem.

[hencicleva]

You might be right there. TV audience for the race was highest in 17 years apparently.

[michiken]

I think it all has to do with the long tradition and media hype. All the babes dressed to the 9's may help some too.

[1st time lasix]

It must be the poly.....oh that's right, they don't have it!

[46zilzal]

Pamplemousse Quality Road and I Want Revenge, the heart of the line up out
Economy
Weather

[Watcher]

Some of the headliners being scratched was a problem.

Off track was a problem.

Not having 10 cent supers was a problem.
I lumped the scratching of Quality Road and IWR into "hard to handicap", but you're right, it should be a separate reason.

With regards to the $0.10 supers... I'm not sure including those would yield a larger superfecta pool. I'd have to look at this from a more analytic standpoint, but I would assume without research, that the additional income from the $0.10 supers would not make up the defection of the $1 bettors dropping to the $0.10 level.

[LottaKash]

I suspect the economy would be the #1 reason for the decline, as it appears to be symptomatic at many other venues as well, these days.....

But for me, the terrible "off going", was and always is reason enough for me to withhold my hard earned money when so much uncertainty is in play....

As for the Derby, 3yo's, in and of themselves, on an honest track, are hard enough to predict at times, let alone the added weight carried, and the extra (new) distance looming so large as well......And with so many entrants coming from other surface types, it would be like playing the lottery to some degree ...

I don't play the lottery with any serious intent, so for me, by my standards for play, the condition of the track just didn't allow for any serious handicapping and presented me with some lottery like guesstimates......I withheld my Kash....This is my normal way of going, at any track, when the going is suspect...

I thought, I Want Revenge was the real deal, and I just loved the way he came up to the Derby, but even so, in the GOO who knows what the outcome would've been (now, we'll never know)....I still believe that IWR is a major force to be reckoned with further down the road..He has sheer "Horsepower" (no pun intended) and after reviewing his replays I think he has some very-big races in him, and I am anticipating future races that contain him....

best,

[BlueShoe]

The swine flu scare.Many stayed home that would have gone to their local track or simulcast facility.

[Valuist]

1. The economy
2. Track condition
3. Increasing number of runners with synthetic form moving to real dirt.

[Bruddah]

I lumped the scratching of Quality Road and IWR into "hard to handicap", but you're right, it should be a separate reason.

With regards to the $0.10 supers... I'm not sure including those would yield a larger superfecta pool. I'd have to look at this from a more analytic standpoint, but I would assume without research, that the additional income from the $0.10 supers would not make up the defection of the $1 bettors dropping to the $0.10 level.


Having 10 cent supers Derby Day at Churchill would only add to the human mass trying to bet and slowing down the larger bets to be made on Derby Day. However, if the "Blue Bloods" want to swell their coffers for the Derby, they should allow 10 cent Supers the Monday thru Friday before the Derby on Saturday. Naturally they would be allowed only at Twin Spires.com. Thereby not appreciably shrinking the Super pool on track. It would also create an opportunity for the novice players which need to be introduced to the Sport. It would be almost like an Irish SeepStakes on line. (JMHO)

Naaah! That would make just too much sense for the InBreds to fathom. :rolleyes:

[Indulto]

Some of the headliners being scratched was a problem.

Off track was a problem.

Not having 10 cent supers was a problem.I think MTB’s victory will change CDI policy on dime supers in the Derby. The uncertainty of the outcome due to field size and other factors including now questionable speed figures make it the closest thing to a national lottery that horse racing can muster to increase its share of the gambling dollar.

There are several ways to handle these bets on-track on Derby day.including:
1) Queues, e.g., assign specific wagers (in combination) to specific windows and terminals to facilitate straight bets and exotics other than dime supers. All bets could be taken at all other windows and terminals.
2) Only accept dime supers at a limited number of designated windows and terminals following the race preceding the Derby. Since the approx. odds for the Derby (incliding the Oaks-Derby Double will-pays) are available continuously prior to the Derby itself, most people would feel thay had enough time to get their bets in.

Isn’t it likely that player’s who would only play the super for a dollar would simply put their money into other pools on the card? It isn't as if the dime super wasn't already available on other days at CD.

[SMOO]

A lack of poly and the poor stretch call.

[NJ Stinks]

The 5th race Saturday scratched down to 7 horses. Not exactly a full field of turf runners to bet into.

The 8th race wasn't my idea of a grade 2 turf race.

The Derby itself was discussed here already.

The 13th was an unplayable (on most days) off the turf.

So take away the I want Revenge factor, add a mostly sloppy main track, and offer 2 so-so turf races and a third taken off the turf, and you get a decrease in the handle.

[Watcher]

Having 10 cent supers Derby Day at Churchill would only add to the human mass trying to bet and slowing down the larger bets to be made on Derby Day. However, if the "Blue Bloods" want to swell their coffers for the Derby, they should allow 10 cent Supers the Monday thru Friday before the Derby on Saturday. Naturally they would be allowed only at Twin Spires.com. Thereby not appreciably shrinking the Super pool on track. It would also create an opportunity for the novice players which need to be introduced to the Sport. It would be almost like an Irish SeepStakes on line. (JMHO)

Naaah! That would make just too much sense for the InBreds to fathom. :rolleyes:
This idea is being thrown in the back of my mind for safe keeping. I tend to like it very much.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't think the economy has much to do with it at all...

We have seen lately that more than a few tracks have posted increases in handle, right in the middle of our country's hard economic downturn.

Surely if tracks like Oaklawn and Gulfstream can experience handle growth during terrible economic times, a marquee race like the Derby can do the same...

Obviously, something other than the economy is to blame here...

[kenwoodallpromos]

Then reason- Racetrack programs online, OTB, simulcast, and live track do not include photos of the runner staring back at you beside the number.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Then reason- Racetrack programs online, OTB, simulcast, and live track do not include photos of the runner staring back at you beside the number.
" A good mud rider will frequently bring a bad horse home.-Pittsburg Phil.

[JohnGalt1]

I voted other.

The muddy track was a factor, and for me, I put my bets in on Friday, and will get about 33% of what I bet returned from the scratches.

[jballscalls]

I know at Portland, our handle on the actual Derby race was up, overall was down a bit.

but food and beverage and merchendise sales were way up, so based on our numbers, i would say for us, the weather, scratches, and maybe just the card itself lent to a slight reduction in handle, cause certainly more people were out and spending money, atleast in our little neck of the woods.

[exactatom]

This was only the second year I attended the Derby, but compared to last year the lines were not nearly as long. The longest I waited on the the 3rd floor was 12 people while last year I waited for over 50 people to place wagers. I think the majority ofthe pople that go will spend their Derby budget money in the following order ticket, drink, food, wardrobe, souvenirs (Derby Glasses, etc.) and only what is left over will be wagered. If the economy is bad and the budget for each person is smaller it would only make sense that if wagering is their lowest priority, then the handle will suffer. I think it would creat nightmare to have 10 cent superso n derby Day. The number of people that attend that do not know how to bet based on the Derby being the one and only time they go to the track a year would create long lines, teller errors and shut out gamblers. I waited behind one old lady befopre the 8th race to put in a $36 pick 3 ticket. I got right behind her while she was at the window with 4 minutes to post and darn near got shut out. She bet a grand total of $4. I am not saying I am the biggest bettor around, but I view betting like I do golf " I might not be the best, but I am at least quick." Quite simply the economy effected the Derby this year. Tickets were also much easier to get.