I find it hilarious....

[PaceAdvantage]

...that only a few weeks ago, people were on here bashing IEAH as usual, saying how IEAH is bad for racing...that we need "the little guy" to win the Derby and give racing a "boost" and a "feel good stoy."

Well, how much more "feel good" does it get than what happened on Saturday? And what does this place have to show for it?

Nothing but rampant speculation that this horse didn't win on the up and up....

Freakin hilarious if you ask me...and sad at the same time.

http://www.saugus.mec.edu/shs/electivepage/Images/Drama_Masks.gif

[Imriledup]

Write this down and put it in a safe place and refer to it often.

When people say something is good for racing or bad for racing, what they are REALLY MEAN is good or bad for THEM.

People could care less about the mythical beast known as racing. Its all about them.

As it should be.

[cj]

I thought I said so here, but maybe not. I think this is awesome. A horse that cost less than 10,000 beating the blue bloods, some that cost nearly 4 mil! Does it get any better than that?

[DeanT]

Sure it is great.

Horse racing is weird tho. People in North America love the underdog. If I watch the NCAA's I am like most: Cheering for every 22 point dog out there in round one and two. Same with football. I always cheer for the Cards over the Steelers for example (unless my fave team is one of the teams).

Racing? As fans we seem to want to see something magical, and the big horse win. We want to see horses go undefeated. If a horse we think is special is going for a Triple Crown at Belmont and a horse owned by Mother Theresa running for charity is coming at him, most still want to see the superstar win. The only other sport that is like that I think is golf (Tiger against an unknown at the Open always has him taking the bulk of the cheering) and maybe Boxing (we want an Ali, not parity, or unknowns holding titles).

Riled,

If I have a bet against Rachel next start and she is romping, I am cheering for her, because it is good for racing. I want to see her go undefeated the rest of the way, even if it hurts my wallet.

[Bobzilla]

I thought I said so here, but maybe not. I think this is awesome. A horse that cost less than 10,000 beating the blue bloods, some that cost nearly 4 mil! Does it get any better than that?

No, I for one don't believe it can get much better than that. I'm particularly giddy over the fact he's a gelding.

[Relwob Owner]

...that only a few weeks ago, people were on here bashing IEAH as usual, saying how IEAH is bad for racing...that we need "the little guy" to win the Derby and give racing a "boost" and a "feel good stoy."

Well, how much more "feel good" does it get than what happened on Saturday? And what does this place have to show for it?

Nothing but rampant speculation that this horse didn't win on the up and up....

Freakin hilarious if you ask me...and sad at the same time.

http://www.saugus.mec.edu/shs/electivepage/Images/Drama_Masks.gif


Good point Pace.....I also find it interesting that people are singling this horse out so much for not being on the up and up......if these people were so concerned with things not being on the up and up, why were they not questioning the fact that General Quarters ran a 54 Beyer when he was claimed for 20K(from a good trainer, Wesley Ward) and eventually ran a 102?????The reaosn is that everyone wants an explanation and a reason why they whiffed....the reason is its horse racing and what happened Saturday is awesome...


3 year olds improve greatly(just like General Quarters did) in a natural manner all the time and any horse can improve with little changes, like an off track, or like changing tactics and going to last and making one big move, like MTB did....

[Tom]

I gave Tiger a better shot to win than the Bird. :rolleyes:

[Quagmire]

Good point Pace.....I also find it interesting that people are singling this horse out so much for not being on the up and up......if these people were so concerned with things not being on the up and up, why were they not questioning the fact that General Quarters ran a 54 Beyer when he was claimed for 20K(from a good trainer, Wesley Ward) and eventually ran a 102?????The reaosn is that everyone wants an explanation and a reason why they whiffed....the reason is its horse racing and what happened Saturday is awesome...


3 year olds improve greatly(just like General Quarters did) in a natural manner all the time and any horse can improve with little changes, like an off track, or like changing tactics and going to last and making one big move, like MTB did....


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[bcgreg]

I thought I said so here, but maybe not. I think this is awesome. A horse that cost less than 10,000 beating the blue bloods, some that cost nearly 4 mil! Does it get any better than that?

Cj,

Right on, no it doesn't get any better!

Way good for the sport, just not so hot for all those $$$$'s pedigree owner/breeders! And...not so hot for all "handicapping experts" that are scratching their heads right now! :mad:

Regards,
bcgreg

[philcski]

...that only a few weeks ago, people were on here bashing IEAH as usual, saying how IEAH is bad for racing...that we need "the little guy" to win the Derby and give racing a "boost" and a "feel good stoy."

Well, how much more "feel good" does it get than what happened on Saturday? And what does this place have to show for it?

Nothing but rampant speculation that this horse didn't win on the up and up....

Freakin hilarious if you ask me...and sad at the same time.

http://www.saugus.mec.edu/shs/electivepage/Images/Drama_Masks.gif

I think it's great. Just think people are a little confused and frustrated yet about how this horse actually won- because on paper he looked like he had no shot.

But that's why they run the race- and why this is such a great game.

[bucksboy]

Great job by the horse and the connections. A losing day for me ( picked the wrong bird) I think it was great for racing. Mr. Borel has some set of cojones.
I don't think MTB wins with any other jock on board. They should throw him an extra 5%. As far as showing a positive, the only one I can think of is butter. He had to have butter on both sides to get thru hole. Is butter illegal ???

[matthewsiv]

...that only a few weeks ago, people were on here bashing IEAH as usual, saying how IEAH is bad for racing...that we need "the little guy" to win the Derby and give racing a "boost" and a "feel good stoy."

Well, how much more "feel good" does it get than what happened on Saturday? And what does this place have to show for it?

Nothing but rampant speculation that this horse didn't win on the up and up....

Freakin hilarious if you ask me...and sad at the same time.

http://www.saugus.mec.edu/shs/electivepage/Images/Drama_Masks.gif

I congratulated them on this site and I think that this is great for racing,and I am one of the IEAH bashers.

[JustRalph]

I thought I said so here, but maybe not. I think this is awesome. A horse that cost less than 10,000 beating the blue bloods, some that cost nearly 4 mil! Does it get any better than that?


This is a better story than Funny Cide.......... and I love the Funny Cide story.........

I bet the Lonesome Cowboy gets treated worse though............

[Saratoga_Mike]

...that only a few weeks ago, people were on here bashing IEAH as usual, saying how IEAH is bad for racing...that we need "the little guy" to win the Derby and give racing a "boost" and a "feel good stoy."

Well, how much more "feel good" does it get than what happened on Saturday? And what does this place have to show for it?

Nothing but rampant speculation that this horse didn't win on the up and up....

Freakin hilarious if you ask me...and sad at the same time.

http://www.saugus.mec.edu/shs/electivepage/Images/Drama_Masks.gif

How many drug infractions does Rick Dutrow have? Seems like a reason, in part, to question IEAH.

How many post-race positives does The Bird's trainer have? Seems like the speculation about The Bird is totally unjustified and disgraceful.

[fmolf]

How many drug infractions does Rick Dutrow have? Seems like a reason, in part, to question IEAH.

How many post-race positives does The Bird's trainer have? Seems like the speculation about The Bird is totally unjustified and disgraceful.
yes but it is fun and informative to talk about peoples opinions.. i hope its so good for racing that everybody makes mtb the 2/1 favorite in baltimore....i originally thought maybe something wasn't right but have since thought otherwise...he had a perfect setup even if it wasn't by design!In my opinion though any owners are good for racing ...we need more owners whether they be like ieah or tom mcCarthy..

[Rackon]

I thought I said so here, but maybe not. I think this is awesome. A horse that cost less than 10,000 beating the blue bloods, some that cost nearly 4 mil! Does it get any better than that?

I thought it was great, actually.

But the Bird was purchased for $400,000 by his owners last fall, and that after he'd won three 2YO stakes at Woodbine. 400k is a far cry for the 3.7mil paid for Dunkirk, but it's considerably more than the $9500 he brought as a yearling.

I didn't see anything in his recent form to indicate to me he was gonna run big Saturday. But he was Canadian 2YO champion male. And 400k is not chicken feed for a 2 YO gelding. The up side of this is that since he was bought to race, and he's a gelding, if he stays sound he'll stay on the track for awhile. (We'll see at what level.)

Just cuz the connections wear black cowboy hats and handlebars, don't underestimate 'em. The owners are millionaires, just down home rich guys.:D

I loved that they passed out roses to fans Sunday from MTB's Derby blanket. I say hooray for them. There's way to much griping on this forum sometimes. Horseplayers are hard to please. So no doubt some will be thrilled that there's an alleged faint whiff of scndal attached to Mr. Allen.

BTW, CJ, you're "da man" for your pace figure on MTB in the Sunland Derby. Went right by me. Too bad I threw this horse out. But congrats on an astute call.

[cj]

I wish I could say that pace figure led me to bet him, but it didn't. It does let understand his win, even if I'm wrong. :)

As for the price, I know he was sold, but the original buyers made a huge score, and now so did the second owners.

[Relwob Owner]

I thought it was great, actually.

But the Bird was purchased for $400,000 by his owners last fall, and that after he'd won three 2YO stakes at Woodbine. 400k is a far cry for the 3.7mil paid for Dunkirk, but it's considerably more than the $9500 he brought as a yearling.

I didn't see anything in his recent form to indicate to me he was gonna run big Saturday. But he was Canadian 2YO champion male. And 400k is not chicken feed for a 2 YO gelding. The up side of this is that since he was bought to race, and he's a gelding, if he stays sound he'll stay on the track for awhile. (We'll see at what level.)

Just cuz the connections wear black cowboy hats and handlebars, don't underestimate 'em. The owners are millionaires, just down home rich guys.:D

I loved that they passed out roses to fans Sunday from MTB's Derby blanket. I say hooray for them. There's way to much griping on this forum sometimes. Horseplayers are hard to please. So no doubt some will be thrilled that there's an alleged faint whiff of scndal attached to Mr. Allen.

BTW, CJ, you're "da man" for your pace figure on MTB in the Sunland Derby. Went right by me. Too bad I threw this horse out. But congrats on an astute call.


Everything this trainer has said and done since the Derby has been cool and this quote is even better...from the drf.com article today..



It is good for the sport," Woolley said. "You cannot have a Triple Crown winner without having the Derby winner in the Preakness. That played into our decision, but the horse looks super."


After starting the day reading a disturbing thread saying they should ask for an appearance fee, ending it reading this quote was cool....

[Valuist]

Good point Pace.....I also find it interesting that people are singling this horse out so much for not being on the up and up......if these people were so concerned with things not being on the up and up, why were they not questioning the fact that General Quarters ran a 54 Beyer when he was claimed for 20K(from a good trainer, Wesley Ward) and eventually ran a 102?????The reaosn is that everyone wants an explanation and a reason why they whiffed....the reason is its horse racing and what happened Saturday is awesome...


3 year olds improve greatly(just like General Quarters did) in a natural manner all the time and any horse can improve with little changes, like an off track, or like changing tactics and going to last and making one big move, like MTB did....

When did General Quarters run the 54? Last June? That was nearly a year ago; plenty of time for him to develop. And 54 wasn't his "top" last year; not by any means. MIne that Bird improved about 17-18 lengths in a month. Two dirt races: a 80 and 81 Beyer. He beat Advice by a length and a half in the Sunland Derby. He beats him by 21 lengths on Saturday. All I said on another thread was it looks very suspicious......and if he WASNT juiced, what the hell kind of games were they playing in Texas? You can't hit the board in the Sunland Derby yet you win the KY Derby by a bigger margin than Secretariat, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed and Seattle Slew. Add to the fact one of the owners is a vet; all he needs to do to shut up critics like me is go to Pimlico run a 100 or more Beyer (I gave him a 108; Beyer gave him a 105). If he wins or runs a solid 2nd or close 3rd, we'll say we were wrong. FWIW, I was NOT one of the people ripping on IEAH a couple weeks ago.

[Relwob Owner]

When did General Quarters run the 54? Last June? That was nearly a year ago; plenty of time for him to develop. And 54 wasn't his "top" last year; not by any means. MIne that Bird improved about 17-18 lengths in a month. Two dirt races: a 80 and 81 Beyer. He beat Advice by a length and a half in the Sunland Derby. He beats him by 21 lengths on Saturday. All I said on another thread was it looks very suspicious......and if he WASNT juiced, what the hell kind of games were they playing in Texas? You can't hit the board in the Sunland Derby yet you win the KY Derby by a bigger margin than Secretariat, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed and Seattle Slew. Add to the fact one of the owners is a vet; all he needs to do to shut up critics like me is go to Pimlico run a 100 or more Beyer (I gave him a 108; Beyer gave him a 105). If he wins or runs a solid 2nd or close 3rd, we'll say we were wrong. FWIW, I was NOT one of the people ripping on IEAH a couple weeks ago.

I had read people saying that MTB ran a 46 in his life and the 54 from General Quarters referenced that....also, to your point about quick improvement and that MTB improved 17-18 Beyer points in a month(actually 23-24), General Quarters had almost the exact same Beyer improvement in a month and half, going from a 78 to a 102....Summer Bird jumped 34 points in about 40 days(and these were very recently, not last year)....so, where are all the conspiracists there? Were General Quarters and Summer Bird's connections "playing games" as you would say before he they improved so much??? The answer is no....they are 3 year old horses and they improve...

I wouldnt bet MTB if teh race was run 100 more times...however, I am amazed at everyone and their theories about what the connections were "up to". It was a sloppy track, he is a 3 year old and crazy things happen. Plus, as with every time a horse performs way above previous efforts, you can look at what he/she did differently that may have led to it....First, the slop, the the drastic change of tactics. This horse had never laid all the way back and made one run. Could be as simple as that.

I think that implying the connections were "up to something" and saying it looks "suspicious" really isnt cool.....you are implying some pretty bad stuff and your only real proof is that he improved a lot, just like many other horses in the field had in the past and will in the future.....these are horses and weird stuff happens all the time.

[cj]

Mine That Bird ran a 78 at Woodbine as early August of 2 yo season. Beyer himself states young horses improve, on average, about 1.5 points per month. So, that would project to about a 91 in early May. Considering we all know synthetic figures are on the low side for better horses, that is about the equivalent of a 95 on dirt. I don't see this huge improvement when you put it in perspective.

[toussaud]

becuase you are skipping almost a year's worth of racing. he ran an 86 on dirt in sunland in his last "prep" for the derby

[Relwob Owner]

becuase you are skipping almost a year's worth of racing. he ran an 86 on dirt in sunland in his last "prep" for the derby

I think it was even lower, an 80....

What I find interesting and relatively underreported is the trip and how different it was with his past races......this was the first time he was way, way back and I wonder if it was because of the break and just lucky or it was planned....the Preakness will definitely answer a lot of questions

[Pell Mell]

I thought I said so here, but maybe not. I think this is awesome. A horse that cost less than 10,000 beating the blue bloods, some that cost nearly 4 mil! Does it get any better than that?

This is not a Blue Blood?

http://www.pedigreequery.com/mine+that+bird

Now check this....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nearco

Lukas, from the LA Times 1984; "We look at the athlete, never mind the bloodlines".

Many trainers, most talking heads and handicappers know little about breeding.:jump:

[GaryG]

this was the first time he was way, way back and I wonder if it was because of the break and just lucky or it was planned..Calvin said in a post-race interview that the strategy was planned, that he thought MTB was a natural deep closer.

[cj]

becuase you are skipping almost a year's worth of racing. he ran an 86 on dirt in sunland in his last "prep" for the derby

Yes, but it showed his potential. If you judge a horse's improvement on a race to race basis, you will always have huge swings.

[Tom]

When you are evaluating 3yos, you have to look their whole records and expect gains and regression. The overall trend is what counts, not race by race. It would appear one guy decided to gain on a day when everyone else regressed.

[cj]

When you are evaluating 3yos, you have to look their whole records and expect gains and regression. The overall trend is what counts, not race by race. It would appear one guy decided to gain on a day when everyone else regressed.

Exactly...look at this race as if Dunkirk, Friesan Fire, and I Want Revenge were all scratched since none of them actually ran a lick. What is really left?