I dont know who this poster is ....but I dont want to know ...

[BeatTheChalk]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cangamble
If Mine That Bird gets a positive, it will be the best thing that could happen to horse racing.


That is simply brilliant. Who can Top a statement like that ...I actually
didnt even want to appear on the same page with this poster....but there
was no way around it. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:
Now let me throw the hell up and get out of here

[Cat Thief]

Unbelievable people think this way

[Jinxed]

I talked to a friend of mine a little while ago that works in the stables at Churchill. Mine That Bird was tested and all is well. His trainer is still in disbelief, and Borel is the happiest little guy on the planet, as well he should be. What kind of sick mind wants to wish a positive on a horse?

[joanied]

I agree 110%...not a well :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: thought post...maybe a sore looser...thanks for posting that the little Bird tested fine :jump: ...

Wanting a 'postive' is insane thinking...is that what we'd need with everything else racing is going through...geeze.
Instead, we have a feel good story that might just bring some new fans out way.

[DeanT]

Do you guys not get the point of the post?

It is a valid point, imo:

If a horse who wins the Derby like that gets a positive, would the positive be a good or bad thing in the long run?

It's like asking "if Lance Armstrong gets a positive would it be good in the long run for cycling as it would make the sport finally face up to drugs"

Eight Belles breaking down was horrible, however it appears she did not perish in vain as there are changes afoot. His post makes perfect sense to me with a similar premise. If you substituted Eight Belles for Mine That Bird in his question it does not mean we want to see Eight Belles die.

I agree there are a lot of bad posts here from time to time, but that is an interesting question and a good debate question for a board like this.

[joanied]

No, it would not be a good thing...everyone is painfully aware of Eight Belles and all the other horses that break down...the industry is well aware of the huge problem of drugs...Mine That Bird getting a positive would not make any difference in how slow the industry is moving to correct the drug problem...it simply would give fodder to the people that are against horse racing.
That is my opinion...

[DeanT]

That is a fair point.

I am in between. At the recent RCI conference it was put out there that $35M a year is spent on testing and it has gotten us nowhere. We are unwilling to change it seems.

The Dog racing ban in New Hampshire is another one. It is bad for racing because it has now perished there, and horse racing might be next somewhere down the line; unless we get our act together. In fact to drive this point home at a recent conference a presenter showed headlines from a MA newspaper in 1968 about handles in dog racing and how it was a healthy industry. 40 years later it is banned. If more states did it, it would be bad for the people who work in it of course, but maybe it spurs us to make needed changes.

This is a sport that needs to be hit with a hammer to move away from the status quo it seems, and maybe something as nasty as a high profile positive, or state ban is the only way to make it finally move.

[MNslappy]

.the industry is well aware of the huge problem of drugs

Is it? I really don't know. When I look at trainers testing positive 3,4,5 times last summer at CBY and still being allowed to run horses I'm suspicious. I know it's just one anecdotal bit from a minor track and a minor state and doesnt necessarily reflect how things are done elsewhere. All I know is, at least here, the industry doesnt seem to be "well aware of the huge problem". It seems like they're all-but ignoring it actually.

[Bubba X]

Do you guys not get the point of the post?

It is a valid point, imo:

If a horse who wins the Derby like that gets a positive, would the positive be a good or bad thing in the long run?

It's like asking "if Lance Armstrong gets a positive would it be good in the long run for cycling as it would make the sport finally face up to drugs"

Eight Belles breaking down was horrible, however it appears she did not perish in vain as there are changes afoot. His post makes perfect sense to me with a similar premise. If you substituted Eight Belles for Mine That Bird in his question it does not mean we want to see Eight Belles die.

I agree there are a lot of bad posts here from time to time, but that is an interesting question and a good debate question for a board like this.

To be honest, I think racing is now immune to the effects of good or bad events or news.

Despite Eight Belles and Dutrow, 150,000 to 160,000 were at the Derby last year, this year and the same will happen next year.

Rags to Riches won the Belmont. People thought it would be a big boost. In her next race, 8,000 showed up at Belmont on a nice late summer day.

I just don't think single event things, good or bad, have much impact on racing or most things in general.

[DeanT]

I don't know Bubba. The drip-drip seems to be having an effect.

$700B will be bet in 2010, online only, on skill games. Racing will be $12B of it in NA. If we would have grown it at only the rate of inflation the last ten years we should be at 20B.

ESPN has left us. We are on Bravo, or nowhere now. Through NTRA funding we are having our events shown on TV - we are paying people now to show our races.

A recent study by the NTRA by a web firm showed that 50-60% of the watchers think horses are running on something, and that can not be good for the growth of the sport.

I'd love to be optimistic, but the metrics are telling us the opposite. If we were a stock, traders would be hitting the short button, imo.

[Dave Schwartz]

In my humble opinion, the poster's intention was not to spit on holy ground. Rather, he was making a point that horses' drug use in this country is out of control.

I think an obvious analogy is to MLB, with one of its top stars recently in the news (not to mention) many of its recent past stars).

His post was meant to convey the idea that a corruption at this level might force change.

I choose to give this poster the benefit of the doubt. He is a poster who has consistently made excellent posts on a variety of handicapping topics. Although I do not always agree with him, I respect his opinion.

IMHO, I'd say that while you might criticize him for bad taste I would just not vilify him.

Just my opinion.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Bubba X]

Dean,
I just attribute the lack of growth or decline in racing to it being less competitive for the player, especially for the online bettor. I think integrity issues have always been there in racing and they hurt just as they always have.

But you can play online poker for far lower cost than going to a casino. You can now bet football or other sports with 5% juice. Betting horses on line is cheaper online vs live by the cost of gas and admission, if any. But you are still giving 15-20% playing horses on line and part of racing's appeal has been the live experience.

I think takeout creeping up hurts far more than anything else. I do not see much chance for tremendous growth through online betting. To me the main things are takeout, reducing race dates, reducing the number of race tracks and much more night racing.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Do you guys not get the point of the post?

It is a valid point, imo:

If a horse who wins the Derby like that gets a positive, would the positive be a good or bad thing in the long run?

It's like asking "if Lance Armstrong gets a positive would it be good in the long run for cycling as it would make the sport finally face up to drugs"

Eight Belles breaking down was horrible, however it appears she did not perish in vain as there are changes afoot. His post makes perfect sense to me with a similar premise. If you substituted Eight Belles for Mine That Bird in his question it does not mean we want to see Eight Belles die.

I agree there are a lot of bad posts here from time to time, but that is an interesting question and a good debate question for a board like this.

What did Eight Belles tragic breakdown have to do with drugs? Sorry if you aren't making that connection.

[DeanT]

What did Eight Belles tragic breakdown have to do with drugs? Sorry if you aren't making that connection.
I'm not. Eight Belles opened our eyes to the brittleness of the breed, track safety and so on. It spurred the NTRA safety alliance and that was put place within 12 months with tracks like KEE 100% behind it.

Without the breakdown on national TV I am of the opinion that the safety alliance, studying racetrack safety and looking at breeding would have not been implemeted in a decade. It might be over the top to say, but I will say it anyway - Eight Belles death will save the lives of many horses over the next decade. And from someone who gets sick to his stomach when I watch a horse break down, I can not hold her in high enough esteem and reverence. She should have a statue right beside Barbaro at Churchill.

[Niko]

I think CanGamble's point is a good one and many people take it the wrong way. Here's someone that's a huge fan of the sport that wants something terrible to happen so racing finally cleans up and starts growing again....that's kind of a sad statement but an indication of the state of horse racing for many. I understand his point and it's a valid one.

Don't let the lessons of harness racing go unoticed.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I'm not. Eight Belles opened our eyes to the brittleness of the breed, track safety and so on. It spurred the NTRA safety alliance and that was put place within 12 months with tracks like KEE 100% behind it.

Without the breakdown on national TV I am of the opinion that the safety alliance, studying racetrack safety and looking at breeding would have not been implemeted in a decade. It might be over the top to say, but I will say it anyway - Eight Belles death will save the lives of many horses over the next decade. And from someone who gets sick to his stomach when I watch a horse break down, I can not hold her in high enough esteem and reverence. She should have a statue right beside Barbaro at Churchill.

Okay, I thought you were intimating that Eight Belles was on steriods. She was not. Sorry for the confusion.

[DeanT]

Okay, I thought you were intimating that Eight Belles was on steriods. She was not. Sorry for the confusion.
Sorry on my part for not being clearer.

I love Larry and his wife and what they are about. If everyone was like them in our biz I truly believe we would not be having this discussion.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I think CanGamble's point is a good one and many people take it the wrong way. Here's someone that's a huge fan of the sport that wants something terrible to happen so racing finally cleans up and starts growing again....that's kind of a sad statement but an indication of the state of horse racing for many. I understand his point and it's a valid one.

Don't let the lessons of harness racing go unoticed.

Could you please expand on "lessons of harness racing" comment?

[joanied]

In my humble opinion, the poster's intention was not to spit on holy ground. Rather, he was making a point that horses' drug use in this country is out of control.

I think an obvious analogy is to MLB, with one of its top stars recently in the news (not to mention) many of its recent past stars).

His post was meant to convey the idea that a corruption at this level might force change.

I choose to give this poster the benefit of the doubt. He is a poster who has consistently made excellent posts on a variety of handicapping topics. Although I do not always agree with him, I respect his opinion.

IMHO, I'd say that while you might criticize him for bad taste I would just not vilify him.

Just my opinion.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Ok then... the original post was just too short... when I read it, it kinda shocked me...but now that this thread is going...I forgive you cangamble;) for simply making a very sharp point... that stung...at least it did me...

But, I still say a Mine That Bird positive wouldn't have been a good thing for the sport... and I doubt it would make any difference...afterall, we still have horses breaking down, we still have trainers getting the proverbial slap on the hand, we are still giving horses drugs on top of drugs (geeze, it makes my blood boil)
seems pretty obvious the industry is sitting on it's collective ass and doing jack... they keep creating all these damned organizations, 'task forces', safety councils et all....yet when a trainer gets a positive, or does some other underhanded thing...not much happens. Mullins and his idiotic 'mistake' at the D Barn on Gotham day is a good example...he should not have been given a 'stay' and allowed on the backside of Churchill...
I don't think a drug postitive on MTB would move the powers that be any faster...I really don't... they do know what's going on...they do know what drugs should be totally banned and which ones can be used, safely, for theraputic reasons...they do know which trainers are the one's to watch...they know all this, and have for at least 10 years...and they know what to do to 'fix' all this....they simply are not willing to throw the hammer down and get tough as f**%%#@*&# nails :bang:

Same rules and regulations at every track in the USA, and if a trainer screws up...then he gets a suspension for a good period of time, in which none of his horses will be allowed entry in any race in anyone's name or under anyone in his employ...no exceptions...then the owner can decide wether he wants to stay with said trainer, or give his horses to someone that's 'clean'.

I just don't think you need to have more bad publicity for racing in order for the 'no drugs rules' to be top priority for this industry...

oh,hey,industry leaders...I know...we need more safety council's...yeah, that'll do it :rolleyes:
:faint:

[Relwob Owner]

Okay, I thought you were intimating that Eight Belles was on steriods. She was not. Sorry for the confusion.


I referred to Eight Belles too....it is amazing that her breakdown, which hasnt been proven to have anything to do with drugs or steroids, led Churchill to do thir whole drug/safety thing.....funny that there wasnt too much of an uproar when a horse who finished third in the biggest filly and mare turf race of the year(Wait a While) blew a test....

[joanied]

I referred to Eight Belles too....it is amazing that her breakdown, which hasnt been proven to have anything to do with drugs or steroids, led Churchill to do thir whole drug/safety thing.....funny that there wasnt too much of an uproar when a horse who finished third in the biggest filly and mare turf race of the year(Wait a While) blew a test....

I wondered about that also...it was printed, but not much was said about it or Pletcher....hhhhmmmmm:confused:

[riskman]

Same rules and regulations at every track in the USA, and if a trainer screws up...then he gets a suspension for a good period of time, in which none of his horses will be allowed entry in any race in anyone's name or under anyone in his employ...no exceptions...then the owner can decide wether he wants to stay with said trainer, or give his horses to someone that's 'clean'.


Joanied--Always enjoy your posts. Your words come straight from the heart and your love of the sport. As one who leans more in the direction of handicapper/gambler but who respects and admires the thoroughbred breed why is the owner not in some way responsible for the sins of the trainer. After all the trainer is his agent or do I have this wrong?

[Relwob Owner]

Joanied--Always enjoy your posts. Your words come straight from the heart and your love of the sport. As one who leans more in the direction of handicapper/gambler but who respects and admires the thoroughbred breed why is the owner not in some way responsible for the sins of the trainer. After all the trainer is his agent or do I have this wrong?


In my opinion, you have hit the nail on the head...suspend the owner or suspend the horse...either way, hitting the owner directly is the only way things will change....

[riskman]

In my opinion, you have hit the nail on the head...suspend the owner or suspend the horse...either way, hitting the owner directly is the only way things will change....

Thank you Relwob Owner for your directness and honesty. By the way, I also enjoy your insights on this board.

[Jinxed]

If you don't think they were right on the testing of The Bird, you would have to nuts. The jocks and trainers all threw a small fit when that horse beat the million dollar horses. They were happy for Borel, but thought the horse had been juiced. He was tested for everything and came up clean.

Like I said I have a friend that works the stables at Churchill, and he hears a lot. It's also not true that the other horses who ran well are pulling out of the Preakness, and in fact Larry Jones said that FF's only problem were some superficial nicks that would be healed well in two weeks. He isn't really "hurt" at all, but the jock took it easy on him because he was bleeding so bad...good move on his part, but the horse is fine, or so Larry says, and he's one of the most honest guys in horseracing.

Rumors abound, and everyone thinks a longshot winning is because he is juiced, so how about just saying wow that was an excellent ride by an excellent jockey who knew enough to "ge to the rail"...if some of the other jocks would get that through their head they might get a clue what it takes to win.

[fmolf]

If you don't think they were right on the testing of The Bird, you would have to nuts. The jocks and trainers all threw a small fit when that horse beat the million dollar horses. They were happy for Borel, but thought the horse had been juiced. He was tested for everything and came up clean.

Like I said I have a friend that works the stables at Churchill, and he hears a lot. It's also not true that the other horses who ran well are pulling out of the Preakness, and in fact Larry Jones said that FF's only problem were some superficial nicks that would be healed well in two weeks. He isn't really "hurt" at all, but the jock took it easy on him because he was bleeding so bad...good move on his part, but the horse is fine, or so Larry says, and he's one of the most honest guys in horseracing.

Rumors abound, and everyone thinks a longshot winning is because he is juiced, so how about just saying wow that was an excellent ride by an excellent jockey who knew enough to "ge to the rail"...if some of the other jocks would get that through their head they might get a clue what it takes to win.
where did you get the results of these tests?.. i have not heard about it yet ?.....but who better to mask the presence of performance enhancing drugs than an owner who is a veterinarian????

[joanied]

Joanied--Always enjoy your posts. Your words come straight from the heart and your love of the sport. As one who leans more in the direction of handicapper/gambler but who respects and admires the thoroughbred breed why is the owner not in some way responsible for the sins of the trainer. After all the trainer is his agent or do I have this wrong?

Thanks:blush: , riskman....that's a nice compliment...but concerning my post...
YES, YES, YES....don't know why I forgot the OWNERS... unless an owner is totally oblivious to what his trainer is doing...go after the owner too...and hard...after all, they do get the greater share of the money involved in racing and breeding the horse...regardless that they pay the bills...so, I am in complete agreement with you.:ThmbUp:
:)

[joanied]

In my opinion, you have hit the nail on the head...suspend the owner or suspend the horse...either way, hitting the owner directly is the only way things will change....

Well, crap...should read further...didn't see your post Relwob...:ThmbUp: well said, straight from an owner's mouth...I was gonna say, horse's mouth...but that'd make me a horse's ass;)

[fmolf]

Thanks:blush: , riskman....that's a nice compliment...but concerning my post...
YES, YES, YES....don't know why I forgot the OWNERS... unless an owner is totally oblivious to what his trainer is doing...go after the owner too...and hard...after all, they do get the greater share of the money involved in racing and breeding the horse...regardless that they pay the bills...so, I am in complete agreement with you.:ThmbUp:
:)
agreed the owners need to be hit in the pocketbook it's all they will understand.....but we also need uniform country wide rules regarding lasix use ...bute ...and other now legal some places illegal next....administered day of here at least 24 hrs prior to there ...its ludicrous ....all other sports have uniform rules!

[Dave Schwartz]

But, I still say a Mine That Bird positive wouldn't have been a good thing for the sport

Joanied,

I could not agree with you more, just as baseball has been irreparably damaged by the scandals surrounding A-Rod, Bonds, and potentially all the other great "new era" homerun hitters.


Dave

[Saratoga_Mike]

Joanied,

I could not agree with you more, just as baseball has been irreparably damaged by the scandals surrounding A-Rod, Bonds, and potentially all the other great "new era" homerun hitters.


Dave

This is a great analogy Dave! Thanks.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Joanied,

I could not agree with you more, just as baseball has been irreparably damaged by the scandals surrounding A-Rod, Bonds, and potentially all the other great "new era" homerun hitters.


Dave

Yes, yes. Baseball is damaged but will survive because it is funded by admissions, sponosors dollars, advertising, merchandising, etc. Horse racing being primarily funded by betting, if the betting public lost confidence in the integrety, that would pretty much kill off the sport with perhaps a few surviving pieces. Would be a horrible thing for our sport. There are problems that still need to be corrected, but the cure would be started too late to save the patient at that point.

[Jinxed]

where did you get the results of these tests?.. i have not heard about it yet ?.....but who better to mask the presence of performance enhancing drugs than an owner who is a veterinarian????


Please get with the program. I have a friend at Chuchill that told me this morning the horse tested clean. The owner of the horse has no inflence on the Track Vet at Churchill, and they know how to test of all illegal substances. So, you think there is a conspiracy here, and even the track vet is in on it? How funny :lol:

[joanied]

Joanied,

I could not agree with you more, just as baseball has been irreparably damaged by the scandals surrounding A-Rod, Bonds, and potentially all the other great "new era" homerun hitters.


Dave

Oh, thank you, Dave...that's good to hear coming from you:ThmbUp: If it's at all possible...the industry can 'fix' things without any more negative scenarios playing out on the track or on the backside.

[joanied]

Yes, yes. Baseball is damaged but will survive because it is funded by admissions, sponosors dollars, advertising, merchandising, etc. Horse racing being primarily funded by betting, if the betting public lost confidence in the integrety, that would pretty much kill off the sport with perhaps a few surviving pieces. Would be a horrible thing for our sport. There are problems that still need to be corrected, but the cure would be started too late to save the patient at that point.

And that, Steve, is another excellent analogy...
:ThmbUp:

[JustRalph]

...but who better to mask the presence of performance enhancing drugs than an owner who is a veterinarian????

How many times are you going to repeat this crap?

If a Veterinarian could mask things.............they would all be doing it.

Just because an owner is the vet doesn't make a damn bit of difference.

[Niko]

Please get with the program. I have a friend at Chuchill that told me this morning the horse tested clean. The owner of the horse has no inflence on the Track Vet at Churchill, and they know how to test of all illegal substances. So, you think there is a conspiracy here, and even the track vet is in on it? How funny :lol:

I have no idea if the horse is clean or not, I have no idea on any of the horses. But to say they know how to test ALL illegal substances? All prescriptions, designer drugs, growth hormones, blood doping etc. I'm not an expert but from what I've read they still can't test for everything...

Baseball can't do it, Cycling can't do it...but horse racing can? They can only test what they know how to test for....if that makes any sense. Thus the freezing of blood samples.

It's just as important to know about an owners history as it is a trainers history.

[Skanoochies]

Jinxed....just wondering, every time I`ve heard of a suspension for a drug positive, it has been literally months after, because of the time to send to a lab, do all the tests for the different types etc. :confused:

And you say this has been done in less than 24 hours? I hope your right about the results as we don`t need this. Besides I am happy for all the connections involved, great story.

[WinterTriangle]

but that is an interesting question and a good debate question for a board like this.

DeanT, I see your point, a debate is always interesting to ponder.

But that is not how the poster *framed* it.

He *targetted* a specific horse, and a specific trainer, and less than a few hours after they won a special race. And wanted to use them for an example of something that had absolutely NOTHING to do with them.

Therefore, the poster came off as a mal-content mean-spirited person.


BTW, my mom, who is 85 and an excellent judge of character, who doesn't follow racing, calls me this morning: "I really liked that guy with the horse..he was so down-to-earth. I loved the jockey, and I loved the horse!"

I said "Mom, it was a 51-1 longshot. A lot of people have said bad stuff about them, that the horse didn't *belong* in the race, blah blah blah."

Mom: "That horse was very FOCUSSED." ;)

[BombsAway Bob]

DeanT, I see your point, a debate is always interesting to ponder.
But that is not how the poster *framed* it.
He *targetted* a specific horse, and a specific trainer, and less than a few hours after they won a special race. And wanted to use them for an example of something that had absolutely NOTHING to do with them.
Therefore, the poster came off as a mal-content mean-spirited person.
BTW, my mom, who is 85 and an excellent judge of character, who doesn't follow racing, calls me this morning: "I really liked that guy with the horse..he was so down-to-earth. I loved the jockey, and I loved the horse!"
I said "Mom, it was a 51-1 longshot. A lot of people have said bad stuff about them, that the horse didn't *belong* in the race, blah blah blah."
Mom: "That horse was very FOCUSSED." ;)
well put... Cangamble is a PA member that I enjoy reading regularly. Unfortunately, this post just doesn't pass 'the smell test'. Chuck it out!
I've posted a few things where a day later I said.."Hmmm. that really wasn't the best written interpretation of my thoughts" :rolleyes:

[DeanT]

He *targetted* a specific horse, and a specific trainer, and less than a few hours after they won a special race. And wanted to use them for an example of something that had absolutely NOTHING to do with them.

Therefore, the poster came off as a mal-content mean-spirited person.

That is your opinion, and fair enough. I did not take it that way. I took it as 'if a horse wins a race he is not 'supposed to win' on the worlds stage and if it is proven faulty would the fall out help or hurt racing in the long run.'

Personally I love the story and of course am happy for the folks who won. I think the debate we are seeing now virtually everywhere with this horse is truly the debate I dont find worthwhile - namely that somehow he does not deserve to be a derby champ. Did he deserve to win? Of course he did - he won.

As for CG, he can take care of himself. I am glad he posted it tho. It has generated some interesting responses and much better ones than the deserve to win stuff has.

[PaceAdvantage]

where did you get the results of these tests?.. i have not heard about it yet ?.....but who better to mask the presence of performance enhancing drugs than an owner who is a veterinarian????Jeez...for the second time, ALL HORSES HAVE VETS....many of them working exclusively for a certain barn....what's your point?

[kenwoodallpromos]

If you want to place blame , place blame on the track super or track. If CD had Polyfake the it would not be affected so much by rain, floating, sealing, etc. and your horse probably would have won!LOL!!
Problem with drugs is not at this point so much with regulations but with the regulators with the subjective power to toughen or mitigate punishment. Mullins could have been banned for a long time from getting stalls in NY; instead he gets a 1-week vacation in between TCs (his suspension will be over after Friday, in time for the Saturday stakes in the USA).
Even if MTB tested positive, POTN will be declared winner like everybody in racing wants, and nobody outside racing will care. In fact, only Andrew Beyer will care!!LOL!!

[chickenhead]

I could not agree with you more, just as baseball has been irreparably damaged by the scandals surrounding A-Rod, Bonds, and potentially all the other great "new era" homerun hitters.


To be fair to CG in the spirit of his post -- I'd say baseball has been irreparably damaged due to the widespread use of steroids and human growth hormones -- the scandals are merely the process by which "we've" come to know that hidden truth in an inarguable way -- and the public scandals are the sole thing that led to anything being done about it.

In the same way -- if you believe drugging is a major, fundamental problem in racing -- as CG likely does -- a major scandal is likely required to fix it.

I take CGs post more as a basic criticism of racing officialdom. I think you could rewrite it as:

Until the Kentucky Derby is won by a horse that fundamentally fails a drug test, in a completely inarguable and blatant fashion, nothing will be done about the drug problem in racing.

[chickenhead]

I guess I could add I don't have strong feelings either way.

JB over on TG made an interesting post over on his board -- that when the procedures and testing methods for this year were laid out to the trainers on Friday, one trainer got very agitated and started asking a lot of questions.

I hope that is true, it means the testing is at least somewhat meaningful.

[Golf and Horses]

I guess I could add I don't have strong feelings either way.

JB over on TG made an interesting post over on his board -- that when the procedures and testing methods for this year were laid out to the trainers on Friday, one trainer got very agitated and started asking a lot of questions.

I hope that is true, it means the testing is at least somewhat meaningful.
I guess he didn't out the inquisitive trainer?