The next time someone criticizes an owner/trainer for entering a seemingly hopeless..

[PaceAdvantage]

..runner...you can simply point them to the 2009 Kentucky Derby. Shut them up real good....

[Saratoga_Mike]

..runner...you can simply point them to the 2009 Kentucky Derby. Shut them up real good....

Isn't that the truth!

[Tom]

Well, you could let me bet it again and I STILL wouldn't have that one.
I wouldn't play him in the 4th hole of an ALL ticket. Even now. I guess once you get past class, pace, and speed, he looks good.:rolleyes:

Remind me to pass the Preakness.
This year's crop is hopeless.

[matthewsiv]

..runner...you can simply point them to the 2009 Kentucky Derby. Shut them up real good....

This game is not an exact science.

This is the best thing to happen to the game.

It shows that everybody has a chance.
:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Overlay]

Every year I see past-posted lists of elimination rules that say, "If you had applied these rules in order to all the horses in each Kentucky Derby field until only one horse was left, you would have had the Derby winner for the last XX (pick a number) years." I'll be curious to see what the folks who come up with those lists do with this year's Derby.

[Burls]

I was hoping for a rags-to-riches KD victory from :17: Summer Bird, but it was not to be. Like many of us here, I didn't even contemplate putting the :8: on.

[lamboguy]

before the race i thought that the eventual winner had a better shot at winning the race than FRIESEN FIRE, DUNKIRK or I WANT REVENGE. i didn't pick the winner but knew those of the above mentioned horses would not be found in this race with a search warrant.

the worst part of this is that they reported all those works as being great works, and the horses were doing great, and to me they all looked awful, and enough of a reason that they should never have been in the race.


one thing for sure, you have to give jeff mullins a ton of credit, he scratched his horses knowing he had no chance.

[Nacumi]

Gotta tell you, this one threw me. Mine That Bird took off like he was on rocket fuel at the 1/16th pole. Why wasn't the trainer over the moon excited about the win like his rider was? It was puzzling to see his reaction. Shoot, we win a maiden race and we can't talk the next day because we were screaming so much.
Is it because he now has to go to the test barn?
Don't know...just felt wrong. :confused:

[Saratoga_Mike]

Gotta tell you, this one threw me. Mine That Bird took off like he was on rocket fuel at the 1/16th pole. Why wasn't the trainer over the moon excited about the win like his rider was? It was puzzling to see his reaction. Shoot, we win a maiden race and we can't talk the next day because we were screaming so much.
Is it because he now has to go to the test barn?
Don't know...just felt wrong. :confused:

He was in the state of shock.

[Nacumi]

State of shock, maybe, but you just win the biggest race in the world, and you're not even visibly ecstatic?
Weird Derby. The futures bettors get screwed when I Want Revenge scratches, and every other bettor who handicaps the "good" horses (Friesan Fire, Dunkirk) also gets screwed.
I don't know...it just doesn't smell right.:rolleyes:

[rokitman]

Gotta tell you, this one threw me. Mine That Bird took off like he was on rocket fuel at the 1/16th pole. Why wasn't the trainer over the moon excited about the win like his rider was? It was puzzling to see his reaction. Shoot, we win a maiden race and we can't talk the next day because we were screaming so much.
Is it because he now has to go to the test barn?
Don't know...just felt wrong. :confused:Yeah, he didn't make any sense to me either. Maybe he also got his heart damaged in that car crash because he didn't seem to have one. He was a llittle "better" in the winner's circle though. He got a little choked up there.

[dutchboy]

Take a closer look at the pp's of Mine That Bird. Note the previous trainers and the quality of the races the horse was in. Why he has been at Sunland since Jan with slow workouts seems to be the 64k question to me.

But I guess the same can be said about any longshot after the race is run.

[Saratoga_Mike]

State of shock, maybe, but you just win the biggest race in the world, and you're not even visibly ecstatic?
Weird Derby. The futures bettors get screwed when I Want Revenge scratches, and every other bettor who handicaps the "good" horses (Friesan Fire, Dunkirk) also gets screwed.
I don't know...it just doesn't smell right.:rolleyes:

Was I shocked by the results? Sure. But what doesn't smell right? The trainer's lack of emotion (he was actually very choked up in the winner's circle). I'm not sure if you asserted it, but others have speculated the horse will come up with a positive. I think that's totally unfair. Does anyone know anything about the trainer? Okay he juices the horse up to win the Derby, so the theory goes. It works, so he's disappointed by it and doesn't react? Give me a break and give the man his due and let him enjoy the limelight. I'm as jaded as the next horseplayer, but even this thinking is over the type (not associating all of this to your post).

[senortout]

Nobody has mentions this so here I go...Did you know he was Canadian 2 yr old of the year?

No bull!


We simply refused to admit he had a chance.

[senortout]

red-boarding here......2 out of the 3 runners who had their last race at Sunland, counting Oaks Day and Derby day......won! and the 3rd?


SHE WAS FACING RACHEL ALEXANDRA!

Gabby's Golden Gal....this was the filly Rachel cruised up to and went by like she was nothing.....maybe keep an eye out for her next start?

The other winner? Luna Vegas....convincing winner in the 1st on Oaks day.

[ryesteve]

Please ignore the 4th-rate Stooge and save PA the trouble of having to start cleaning up this thread...

[MooseDog]

You would think if Bennie Wooley was smart enough to dope up a horse for the Kentucky Derby with all of the security his record would be a little better than 1 for 32 on the New Mexico circuit.

[Show Me the Wire]

Playing devil's advocate. Plenty of time to do it during that long drive. In the interview, when asked why he drove, he responded, like this, I am a hands on type.

Maybe too hands on :lol:

Just joking, I don't think the horse was drugged

[Relwob Owner]

Gotta tell you, this one threw me. Mine That Bird took off like he was on rocket fuel at the 1/16th pole. Why wasn't the trainer over the moon excited about the win like his rider was? It was puzzling to see his reaction. Shoot, we win a maiden race and we can't talk the next day because we were screaming so much.
Is it because he now has to go to the test barn?
Don't know...just felt wrong. :confused:

I watched all his interviews and the whole post race one--his mood was strange and here is what I think....he kept mentioning everyone asking him about the trip...one possibility is that since he was an "outsider" of sorts, compared with the almight bluebloods and "high class" connections,with a horse noone respected and who some may have thought didnt belong. Wouldnt be surprised if he was treated like crap and he was thinking "Now, everyone loves me?"....he also made a "people know about me now" comment as well that was pointed.....

[Relwob Owner]

Take a closer look at the pp's of Mine That Bird. Note the previous trainers and the quality of the races the horse was in. Why he has been at Sunland since Jan with slow workouts seems to be the 64k question to me.

But I guess the same can be said about any longshot after the race is run.

Also strange that the connections said they paid 400K for him....they must have seen something because that seems high based on where he was dvelopment wise.


Good for all those guys, no matter how they reacted....they are living my dream and are proof that it can happen

[Show Me the Wire]

The $400k wes paid to the Canadian connections. http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1548363

[dutchboy]

I would guess he is in a lot of discomfort. Motorcyle accident shatters his leg. He drives his truck 20 hours from NM to CD. Hobbles around on crutches for days. I assume the pain has not allowed for much sleep. I doubt if the walk from the barn, down the track to saddle the horse, then the race and post race on one leg and two crutches must have been a very uncomfortable situation. I whine if I stub my toe. Can't imagine how he feels.

I watched all his interviews and the whole post race one--his mood was strange and here is what I think....he kept mentioning everyone asking him about the trip...one possibility is that since he was an "outsider" of sorts, compared with the almight bluebloods and "high class" connections,with a horse noone respected and who some may have thought didnt belong. Wouldnt be surprised if he was treated like crap and he was thinking "Now, everyone loves me?"....he also made a "people know about me now" comment as well that was pointed.....

[onefast99]

..runner...you can simply point them to the 2009 Kentucky Derby. Shut them up real good....
With a somewhat less then stellar bunch if it was going to happen this was indeed the year. How about Breen's owner paying 100k to enter WSB and Atomic Rain or a few of the others that really didn't belong. This was the year of the upset and it will continue that way in the Preakness.

[Nikki1997]

I would guess he is in a lot of discomfort. Motorcyle accident shatters his leg. He drives his truck 20 hours from NM to CD. Hobbles around on crutches for days. I assume the pain has not allowed for much sleep. I doubt if the walk from the barn, down the track to saddle the horse, then the race and post race on one leg and two crutches must have been a very uncomfortable situation. I whine if I stub my toe. Can't imagine how he feels.

I've read many comments on forums today regarding the trainer's behavior and I think you are on track.
This guy has screws in his ankle/leg and is probably on painkillers, but he drove the trip with this horse. The horse runs the Kentucky Derby and puts down a performance in spades. The guy's belief in the horse has just been realized and realized big. The big prize has been achieved and one has to know he is in shock or the euphoria has overriden everything else.
As the colts were walking up to be saddled, one of the interviewers asked Mr. Wooley (paraphrasing here) why he felt his colt belonged in the Derby. I'm not reiterating the trip details, but the moron interveiwer was being more than condescending, in my opinion. Reminded me of the first BC Classic when one of the owners of Wild Again was interviewed.
I enjoyed the heck out of the results. For connections who believed in their horse, a trainer who hauled this colt himself and a jockey who is from my state and turned in a terrifically stellar ride. Kudos to all.

[JustRalph]

I would guess he is in a lot of discomfort. Motorcyle accident shatters his leg. He drives his truck 20 hours from NM to CD. Hobbles around on crutches for days..

I got the feeling he was hurting too............ and medicated.

I also think you are right that he was treated like shit all week............I hope he ignores the blue bloods and goes home happy.....

[David-LV]

Just to remind everybody.

_______
David-LV

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sovereign Award for Champion 2-Year-Old Male Horse

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Sovereign Award for Champion 2-Year-Old Male Horse is a Canadian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) Thoroughbred (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoroughbred) horse racing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_racing) honor. Created in 1975 by the Jockey Club of Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jockey_Club_of_Canada), it is part of the Sovereign Awards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Award) program and is awarded annually to the top 2-Year-Old male (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male) Thoroughbred horse competing in Canada.


2008 - Mind That Bird

[PaceAdvantage]

Is it because he now has to go to the test barn?Why freakin' enter in the first place if you're going to juice your horse up, win, and get caught?

Maybe the guy just has a low key personality.

Have you EVER seen anyone as loony as Calvin (and I say this with all the love in the world for Calvin, but man, he looked like he was auditioning for one of those Ol' Milwaukee, huge beer can dropping out of the sky commercials) after a race?

This world is full of all sorts of personalities...maybe he was on painkillers for his broken leg...maybe that dulled his senses a bit...who knows?

[MNslappy]

I wouldn't play him in the 4th hole of an ALL ticket.

:D that's classic....

[lamboguy]

I've read many comments on forums today regarding the trainer's behavior and I think you are on track.
This guy has screws in his ankle/leg and is probably on painkillers, but he drove the trip with this horse. The horse runs the Kentucky Derby and puts down a performance in spades. The guy's belief in the horse has just been realized and realized big. The big prize has been achieved and one has to know he is in shock or the euphoria has overriden everything else.
As the colts were walking up to be saddled, one of the interviewers asked Mr. Wooley (paraphrasing here) why he felt his colt belonged in the Derby. I'm not reiterating the trip details, but the moron interveiwer was being more than condescending, in my opinion. Reminded me of the first BC Classic when one of the owners of Wild Again was interviewed.
I enjoyed the heck out of the results. For connections who believed in their horse, a trainer who hauled this colt himself and a jockey who is from my state and turned in a terrifically stellar ride. Kudos to all.

good one, brings back memories of black chip stable and the infamous bill allen

[Nacumi]

Why freakin' enter in the first place if you're going to juice your horse up, win, and get caught?


For the sake of the sport, I hope not, and this was the first Derby without steroids, if you recall.
Believe me, I found absolutely no reason to include this horse in the wagering.
In hindsight, his sire did win in the off-going twice...the Belmont and the Travers, no less.
So the propensity was there, for sure. He's a lighter-boned, smaller horse, and just floated over that track from the 1/4 pole in, plus he has no testicles to hamper his movement either! ;)
I was just fascinated (watching the overhead replay) by how FAST he accelerated past some very good company who looked like they were all standing still.
There is no question Borel outmaneuvered everyone with a ride for the ages.
The trainer must be on massive painkillers, which I really didn't consider. Adrenalin and the thrill of winning the most famous race in the world apparently didn't overcome the effects of those, or this guy simply has no blood pressure! LOL.

[Relwob Owner]

I've read many comments on forums today regarding the trainer's behavior and I think you are on track.
This guy has screws in his ankle/leg and is probably on painkillers, but he drove the trip with this horse. The horse runs the Kentucky Derby and puts down a performance in spades. The guy's belief in the horse has just been realized and realized big. The big prize has been achieved and one has to know he is in shock or the euphoria has overriden everything else.
As the colts were walking up to be saddled, one of the interviewers asked Mr. Wooley (paraphrasing here) why he felt his colt belonged in the Derby. I'm not reiterating the trip details, but the moron interveiwer was being more than condescending, in my opinion. Reminded me of the first BC Classic when one of the owners of Wild Again was interviewed.
I enjoyed the heck out of the results. For connections who believed in their horse, a trainer who hauled this colt himself and a jockey who is from my state and turned in a terrifically stellar ride. Kudos to all.



:ThmbUp:

[Ian Meyers]

before the race i thought that the eventual winner had a better shot at winning the race than FRIESEN FIRE, DUNKIRK or I WANT REVENGE. i didn't pick the winner but knew those of the above mentioned horses would not be found in this race with a search warrant.

the worst part of this is that they reported all those works as being great works, and the horses were doing great, and to me they all looked awful, and enough of a reason that they should never have been in the race.

My real mistake was not liking POTN enough.

For me it was a process of elimination. Freisan Fire's work was awful based upon what I had been told by those that saw it in person, and Dunkirk was 'all skin and bones' (which is why I guess Gomez chose POTN) and I hated the Godolphin horses and Chocolate Candy. I thought MTB was plausible, not likely but plausible enough to use him in key boxes with those I liked (Hold Me Back, Mr. Hot Stuff). I handicapped the race to play to late pace types but I couldn't key POTN and his big flat non-mud feet (though I had been told he was the training star all week) which means I didn't have any exacta tickets with POTN and MTB together.

Now if MTB won and Hold Me Back had stayed on (way premature move on a tiring track) I kill the race... :(

Congrats to the connections for having faith in their horse and to Calvin for an amazing ride. :)

[fmolf]

i hope he was nit juiced up... the trainer seemed strange to me the owners seemed a bit off and edgy....maybe i am just a conspiracy theorist... but you know when something feels wrong..one owners daddy tried to bribe alaska senators!...the other owner is a veterinarian.....the trainer is 2/32 this year the horse has the beyers of a 20k claimer! there are not too many vets that own horses are there?a vet may be just the guy to come up with a way to mask a drug in a horses system...athletes have trainers and designer performance nehancing drugs that operate outside the parameters of the testing in place..why not a horse?

[Robert Fischer]

before the race i thought that the eventual winner had a better shot at winning the race than FRIESEN FIRE, DUNKIRK ... . i didn't pick the winner but knew those of the above mentioned horses would not be found in this race with a search warrant.

You had the opportunity of a lifetime. You knew 2 of the Kentucky Derby favorites wouldn't be in the money.

[David-LV]

i hope he was nit juiced up... the trainer seemed strange to me the owners seemed a bit off and edgy....maybe i am just a conspiracy theorist... but you know when something feels wrong..one owners daddy tried to bribe alaska senators!...the other owner is a veterinarian.....the trainer is 2/32 this year the horse has the beyers of a 20k claimer! there are not too many vets that own horses are there?a vet may be just the guy to come up with a way to mask a drug in a horses system...athletes have trainers and designer performance nehancing drugs that operate outside the parameters of the testing in place..why not a horse?


The reports out of Chuchill this morning are that he tested 100% clean after the race so let's give this little horse a pat on the back for one of the most unbelievable moves in Derby history. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :8:

_______
David-LV

[Mineshaft]

I for one threw the horse out immediately when i got the racing form. I ddint like his Beyer figures and i didnt like that he had not run in a Graded race this year and the fact he couldnt win at Sunland.



The only angle i could see that would be worth playing the horse was it was this horses 3rd start off the layoff and we all know that is usually a horses best race. Other that that i couldnt play the horse with your money.

[CryingForTheHorses]

You guys are too much...Give the man credit.Just because his horse wasnt owned by the shiek or another very rich person,The horse still had some paper behind his name..You guys are worse then the media!!..Just because Todd 0 for 23 didnt win it.I think you all need to respect what has happened in this years derby.Guess the big boys got spanked good.Also makes me wonder how these big trainers keep bulls--tting the owners.

[Mineshaft]

anyone know?

[Spendabuck85]

anyone know?

105

From Crist blog at DRF.com:
For the first time in the 19-year published history of Beyer Speed Figures, the Kentucky Oaks has received a better figure than the Kentucky Derby. Rachel Alexandra's 20 1/4-length victory Friday received a BSF of 108, making it the highest ever by a point over Silverbulletday's 107 a decade ago. Mine That Bird's 6 3/4-length victory Saturday received a 105, tied with Sea Hero's as the second lowest (to Giacomo's 100 in 2005) during that span.

[Mineshaft]

105

From Crist blog at DRF.com:
For the first time in the 19-year published history of Beyer Speed Figures, the Kentucky Oaks has received a better figure than the Kentucky Derby. Rachel Alexandra's 20 1/4-length victory Friday received a BSF of 108, making it the highest ever by a point over Silverbulletday's 107 a decade ago. Mine That Bird's 6 3/4-length victory Saturday received a 105, tied with Sea Hero's as the second lowest (to Giacomo's 100 in 2005) during that span.





Thanks Buck...

[cmoore]

He's a lighter-boned, smaller horse, and just floated over that track from the 1/4 pole in,

When I rewatched the prerace shots of each horse...I did notice also how short and compact Mind That Bird is..His legs looked shorter, thicker and much more put together in a smaller frame..Pioneer of the Nile is much taller and has longer legs. He was up towards the front end the whole race and ran a good race..But Mind That Bird did just float over that surface. An amazing run!!!!!

[samyn on the green]

To be honest I think that if I found a bottle on the beach and a genie popped out and granted me three wishes my first wish was give me the derby winner right now. If he told me Mine That Bird I would have tossed the bottle back into the ocean before the second wish was granted and preceded to bet the same plugs that I did sans genie.

[Nacumi]

I've been talking with our trainer about this horse since the race, and she said it was clearly an advantage that MTB had been racing/training in N. Mexico (though not winning), because the aerobic conditioning he likely received as a result is much greater once you return to sea level. High altitude conditioning does have benefits, as several have pointed out with the analogy to other sports and athletes.
Having gone skiing out west, versus here in the east, there's a HUGE difference in lung capacity once you get used to the change in altitude, and "drop down" in class. LOL.

[fmolf]

I've been talking with our trainer about this horse since the race, and she said it was clearly an advantage that MTB had been racing/training in N. Mexico (though not winning), because the aerobic conditioning he likely received as a result is much greater once you return to sea level. High altitude conditioning does have benefits, as several have pointed out with the analogy to other sports and athletes.
Having gone skiing out west, versus here in the east, there's a HUGE difference in lung capacity once you get used to the change in altitude, and "drop down" in class. LOL.
that is why the kenyans win so many marathons.... still though this was a perfect storm for this horse everything broke right ...and because borel missed the break with him and got pinched back he changed his running style...he was never this far back in any of his races and in the one where he was he never closed like that!

[Quagmire]

Well, you could let me bet it again and I STILL wouldn't have that one.
I wouldn't play him in the 4th hole of an ALL ticket. Even now. I guess once you get past class, pace, and speed, he looks good.:rolleyes:

Remind me to pass the Preakness.
This year's crop is hopeless.


It seems like just a few days ago that people were saying this years crop was one of the best in years and that Big Brown would have finished up the track if he had ran this year instead of last. The scratches of QR and IWR definitely weakened the field but thats racing.

[OTM Al]

To be honest I think that if I found a bottle on the beach and a genie popped out and granted me three wishes my first wish was give me the derby winner right now. If he told me Mine That Bird I would have tossed the bottle back into the ocean before the second wish was granted and preceded to bet the same plugs that I did sans genie.

I was thinking the same thing. You could have sent me into the future and let me see him win and I still would have bet against him.

To go with what PA said though starting the thread, that is dead on. Its just like I've been saying to people who talk about baseball teams built for the season rather than the playoffs. The best way to win the WS is to make the playoffs. You don't start the race you got 0 chance of winning. Runn the race 100 times he probably doesn't win any of the others, but then the race is run just once, so the rest simply doesn't matter. And I'll be betting against a repeat in the Preakness.....unless its really wet and the rail looks good......

[ghostyapper]

Sorry despite the kentucky derby result, I can't fathom why lukas would run Luv Gov in the preakness

[Imriledup]

I think responsible owners will enter horses where they have a realistic chance of winning. If a slew of your horses go into the gate at 50-1 you're probably an owner who is in the red. In order to turn a profit as an owner, you have to really classify your runners properly.

Just because a longshot wins the Derby, doesn't mean you need to toss all caution to the wind and just enter your animals where they probably aren't going to win.

SO, you strike with one 50-1 shot and the other 49 horses you own get badly classified, get beaten up, discouraged and injured.

You can be a hero once, but the other 49 times you are putting your fragile thoroughbred in harms way by not being smart about where he really belongs classwise.

[joanied]

Sorry despite the kentucky derby result, I can't fathom why lukas would run Luv Gov in the preakness

:D because he can!!!

[Relwob Owner]

I think responsible owners will enter horses where they have a realistic chance of winning. If a slew of your horses go into the gate at 50-1 you're probably an owner who is in the red. In order to turn a profit as an owner, you have to really classify your runners properly.

Just because a longshot wins the Derby, doesn't mean you need to toss all caution to the wind and just enter your animals where they probably aren't going to win.

SO, you strike with one 50-1 shot and the other 49 horses you own get badly classified, get beaten up, discouraged and injured.

You can be a hero once, but the other 49 times you are putting your fragile thoroughbred in harms way by not being smart about where he really belongs classwise.



Right, but some owners dont have to make money and many times, that is where these entrants come from.....Whitney would fall into that category, I assume.....