Oaks

[Bubba X]

12 min to post and a couple interesting things.

Rachel A is 2/5. I'm not a chalk player but it's hard to see why she is not 1/5. She looked 2/5 or 1/2 to me before the scratch.

Also, the pick 6 is a carryover with the 1,2 and 3 paying for 4/6.

I will contribute to the Exacta pool with a straight 6-2.

[46zilzal]

:2: :3: :8: might stick around on what is a biased track today but nobody beats the big filly

[Zippy Chippy]

Can someone please put results on this thread after race and how rachel ran. I'm driving in car

[jognlope]

Rachel by 20 lengths. OMG I'm in love.

[Oaklawn]

RA by a mile, 3, 8

[46zilzal]

6/3/8/2

[Oaklawn]

I feel like a wimp for the "big" $50 show bet!

[freehouse2002]

I sure hope we see her against the boys at some point. Simply outstanding!



freehouse2002

[boogazie]

Rachel Alexandra one length off Gabby's Golden Gal, in second position the entire way. Takes over on the turn and says goodbye. Over 20 lengths and without urging :)

[46zilzal]

:2: :3: :8: might stick around on what is a biased track today but nobody beats the big filly
did they offer a super here??

[freehouse2002]

:2: :3: :8: might stick around on what is a biased track today but nobody beats the big filly
Nice call. They did offer a super here.


freehouse2002

[philofbelloni]

20.25 lengths. Unbelievable.

[Bubba X]

did they offer a super here??$215 for a buck.

[classhandicapper]

That was freaky. :eek:

[Relwob Owner]

That was freaky. :eek:


Woah....is it reasonable to question why they didnt run her in the Derby? No armchairing, just a question

[Zippy Chippy]

Anyone know where I can watch a replay

[hencicleva]

I noticed Tom Durkin commentated on TV NBC (Bravo). Is he doing tomorrow's Derby too? Is this usual practice? I'm a newbie to this game.

[Watcher]

U8b8lmbwVnA

[joanied]

ohmygod, ohmygod, ohmygod....I cannot find the right words...I was on my feet, jumping up & down, laughing and crying at the same time...unreal, unbeleivable, awesome, breathtaking, incredible...I am in awe...and I saw Ruffian...this filly may become the greatest filly of all time!!
Calvin did good not going absolutley nuts at about the 16th pole...I know he was wanting to do the Borel-boogie...

:jump: :jump: :jump: :1: Rachel Alexander:1: :jump: :jump: :jump:

[toussaud]

i'll get blasted for this but that owner of rachael alexandra is the most unsporting man I have ever seen in my life. owners like that don't deserve superstars like he has on hand.

people wonder why people love people like baffert and lukas, when they had a rachael alexnadra in their barn, they weren't afraid to let her run against the best.

[FantasticDan]

They didn't accidentally run her against a field of $8K claimers, did they? :eek: ;)

That was a pure joy to watch. :)

[Zippy Chippy]

Is there a website I can watch a replay on?

[toussaud]

just click play above

[Watcher]

i'll get blasted for this but that owner of rachael alexandra is the most unsporting man I have ever seen in my life. owners like that don't deserve superstars like he has on hand.

people wonder why people love people like baffert and lukas, when they had a rachael alexnadra in their barn, they weren't afraid to let her run against the best.
Would have been great to see. But ugh, would have not loved all the negative articles and resurfacing of Eight Belles memories, with another filly running against the boys.

[W2G]

Rachel does that and it's televised on freaking Bravo.

Racing can't catch a break.

[toussaud]

Would have been great to see. But ugh, would have not loved all the negative articles and resurfacing of Eight Belles memories, with another filly running against the boys.


screw the eight belles articles. when you have something like that.... you owe it to the racing public to go up against the best. I'm sorry.

we talk about what we need to do to get people watching horse racing again.. PUT THAT...FREAK... in a race on national TV against a field where she is actually running agsinst someone..a nd there is not a filly or mare in the nation that could give her a race, she has to race against boys.

you don't see greatness very often. that was great. as much as we hate on IeAH and the like at least they are sporting. I'll take sporting crooks over nonsporting nice people any day of the week.

[Watcher]

screw the eight belles articles. when you have something like that.... you owe it to the racing public to go up against the best. I'm sorry.

we talk about what we need to do to get people watching horse racing again.. PUT THAT...FREAK... in a race on national TV against a field where she is actually running agsinst someone..a nd there is not a filly or mare in the nation that could give her a race, she has to race against boys.

you don't see greatness very often. that was great. as much as we hate on IeAH and the like at least they are sporting. I'll take sporting crooks over nonsporting nice people any day of the week.
What about a showdown with Zenyatta?

[bushwick]

Her not running in the derby might be best for the sport. Everyone in the country with even a small interest in horse racing is going to be following this filly, as well as the derby winner. This could be a huge boost for the industry down the road ,more so than her winning the derby. The owner of her said it right, "keep the fillies with fillies ,and boys with boys". If she wins the derby it costs the breeding industry alot of money. The buildup that will take place from now until she crushes the boys is going to be tremendous. Lets all just enjoy the months to come and thank them for not running her in derby. I think they should be applauded for not going down that path.

[eastie]

If the man wants to run his filly against fillies, who is anyone to tell him he shouldn't ? Obviously with any racing luck she would be formidable, but Eight Belles bombed the rest of them last year and another tragic ending is not what anyone needs. I still have bad dreams about Go For Wand. Enjoy what you just saw, it was awesome.

[toussaud]

i don't think zenyatta wants any part of that. zenyatta has never come close to replicating that type of performance. she ran 2/5ths off the track record and never broke a gallop.

but even that would be fine, but it just makes me mad as you can see, that people wonder why no one watches horse racing, well hell, no one gives a damn about the horse players or the fans. fans go to tracks on cold wet days hoping to see a drop in the bucket, drag their butts to tracks thousands of miles a way in hte hopes of capturing a special moment in their life, and have that unsporting freaktard say something as boneheaded as that. he's perfectly content running her against scrubs the rest of her life. pisses me off ot no end.

[point given]

What about a showdown with Zenyatta?


First let's see her in the Belmont stakes , ala Rags to Riches, then the Travers.

[toussaud]

i would not blame them for not running in the blemont. 100k is a lot to put up and it is a 12 furlong race. but this man has no intention of putting her up against anyone.

[bushwick]

Toussaud, sounds like you are demanding a match race tommorow with Einstein,Well Armed,Zenyatta, I want revenge and all the other heavy heads. You must be the owner of Stone Legacy. He is the only one that should bitchin about her running in the oaks instead of derby.

[toussaud]

Toussaud, sounds like you are demanding a match race tommorow with Einstein,Well Armed,Zenyatta, I want revenge and all the other heavy heads. You must be the owner of Stone Legacy. He is the only one that should bitchin about her running in the oaks instead of derby.

no if you would actually read my posts you'd know I'm not.
I don't get anything, and i'm not the only one, in watching a filly that is 20 lengths better than her crop and probably against older mares not named zenyatta as well. the only thing they can talka bout on hrtv is will she run in the belmont, i'm not the only one.

[bushwick]

I agree everyone wants to see the best run with best, but the buildup is going to create alot of interest. We will see her run against the best when the time comes.

[joanied]

Rachel does that and it's televised on freaking Bravo.

Racing can't catch a break.

Right...I watched everything today on HRTV, but meantime, I did record the Bravo show....Bravo is in HD, and that's why I recorded it...after I saw the Oaks on HRTV, I turned on the Bravo show...Piont Given said it was going to be a barfo show...it was...all that fashion, food and other stupid BS....but it was super to see Rachel A in high definition....I just did the fast forward for the orher crap:)
let's hope ALL the netorks and ESPN will show the Oaks during their news casts or something...like, just how many people watch Bravo...geeze!

EVERYONE should get to see this filly run.

[bushwick]

Why is it so important to map out her entire future tonite? I am sure the connections are as surprised by the performance she put on today as anyone. If they would have run in derby and ran third they would have got blasted for that. Lets just relax and enjoy whats going to come out of this.

[toussaud]

Why is it so important to map out her entire future tonite? I am sure the connections are as surprised by the performance she put on today as anyone. If they would have run in derby and ran third they would have got blasted for that. Lets just relax and enjoy whats going to come out of this.

I really don't think you get it.

[bushwick]

Joanied,

Be thankful, if bravo didnt show it the race might not of made it into the homes it did make it into. also I heard they owners are planning a switch to TALAMO because of the antics of Borel.
Bushwick

[Skanoochies]

"antics of Borel" can you explain that one please? :confused:

[toussaud]

i didn't get that either. borel could have done his taxes on RA's back today and it would not have made a bit of difference. the only moving he did was to pat RA on the neck while he was 18 in front.

[bushwick]

That was for my friend joanied. We joke around a little and I enjoy her passion for the sport. That post held no factual statements. It was an inside joke.

[Relwob Owner]

"antics of Borel" can you explain that one please? :confused:

I think he was referring to him looking back a hundred times....I always see this as showboating by the jocks-one look does the trick and as an owner, it would annoy the crap out of me and I would just want the jock looking straight ahead(I dont have to worry about it because no horse of mine has ever had a big enough lead for it to happen), especially on her. Not sure if this was the case, especially since it doesnt seem like a Borel type of move.

[Relwob Owner]

That was for my friend joanied. We joke around a little and I enjoy her passion for the sport. That post held no factual statements. It was an inside joke.


Gotcha but I do find it annoying when jocks do it....I love the patting of the horse but the looking back annoys me

[bushwick]

Borel's connections to this camp go back way beyond rachel. These guys are friends and enjoy and respect each. I think they will stick together through this.

[Relwob Owner]

I really don't think you get it.


Toussaud,

I am coming dangerously close to agreeing with you here....I think this guy gets it, though. We should probably just enjoy it but I see where you are coming from. plus, you never know if it is a trainer decision, too.

One way to look at it is this way. If the owner and trainer thought it was best to run her in the Derby, why wouldnt they? More money, more glory, more history, etc.....so, there is probably a pretty good reason because it is in their selfish best interest to run in the big one,

[toussaud]

I never really had a problem witht hem not running in the derby. Get the grade 1 under your belt first. I honestly understand that arguement.

but and i'll leave it at this, it's owners like that, which is why we have to look for the bravo channel on oaks day.

[Relwob Owner]

I never really had a problem witht hem not running in the derby. Get the grade 1 under your belt first. I honestly understand that arguement.

but and i'll leave it at this, it's owners like that, which is why we have to look for the bravo channel on oaks day.


This is why I rarely understand your posts and how inconsistent they seem to be.....an hour ago, you posted this.....



i'll get blasted for this but that owner of rachael alexandra is the most unsporting man I have ever seen in my life. owners like that don't deserve superstars like he has on hand.

people wonder why people love people like baffert and lukas, when they had a rachael alexnadra in their barn, they weren't afraid to let her run against the best.



Now you post this...



I never really had a problem witht hem not running in the derby. Get the grade 1 under your belt first. I honestly understand that arguement.

but and i'll leave it at this, it's owners like that, which is why we have to look for the bravo channel on oaks day



Strange....

[toussaud]

becuase i'm not talking about him not running in the derby, i'm talking about his post race comments and slamming the door shut on EVER running agsinst colts.

[Relwob Owner]

becuase i'm not talking about him not running in the derby, i'm talking about his post race comments and slamming the door shut on EVER running agsinst colts.


Gotcha....my bad. Didnt see that in the posts and thanks for getting me up to speed on his interview. Now I understand what you were saying....


Wow. So he really said he was never going to riun against the boys? if he did, I totally agree with you.

[toussaud]

Gotcha....my bad. Didnt see that in the posts and thanks for getting me up to speed on his interview. Now I understand what you were saying....


Wow. So he really said he was never going to riun against the boys? if he did, I totally agree with you.

in a nutshell. "colts should run with colts and fillies should run with fillies" and "the classic races are nothing just for the future stallions". I wanted to throw up listening to him.

[bushwick]

I think he was justifying his choice to run in the oaks today instead of derby tommorow. Eventually winning by 20 lengths will get old and human nature will run its course. He will accept the challenge you have put forth to him. By then the stage will be set for what could be a great showdown. I dont know with who it will be. Whoever rises to the top of the boy division I guess.

[Relwob Owner]

in a nutshell. "colts should run with colts and fillies should run with fillies" and "the classic races are nothing just for the future stallions". I wanted to throw up listening to him.


Agreed...ugh

[Bubba X]

I think he was justifying his choice to run in the oaks today instead of derby tommorow. Eventually winning by 20 lengths will get old and human nature will run its course. He will accept the challenge you have put forth to him. By then the stage will be set for what could be a great showdown. I dont know with who it will be. Whoever rises to the top of the boy division I guess.

I doubt she'll win by 20 ever again. She was great and all that but aside from Rachel A, none of them came home the last quarter much under 27 seconds. Some half decent pacers at the Meadowlands will run faster last quarters tonight than the also rans did today. She was wonderful, yes, but she basically beat rats.

And she'd never be able to dominate early in a big field vs colts as she fif today.

The owner can do whatever he wants. But he definitely came off as a know-it-all knob. Maybe he was just being a knob, then again I wonder what a guy like Larry Jones would think of his comments, if Larry Jones cared about that kind of thing.

[toussaud]

I doubt she'll win by 20 ever again. She was great and all that but aside from Rachel A, none of them came home the last quarter much under 27 seconds. Some half decent pacers at the Meadowlands will run faster last quarters tonight than the also rans did today. She was wonderful, yes, but she basically beat rats.

And she'd never be able to dominate early in a big field vs colts as she fif today.

The owner can do whatever he wants. But he definitely came off as a know-it-all knob. Maybe he was just being a knob, then again I wonder what a guy like Larry Jones would think of his comments, if Larry Jones cared about that kind of thing.


I dont think anyone is expecting her to win every race from here on out by 20. but she has clearly deminstrated that she is in literarly a league of her own as far as fillies go. think about this, she has ran 4 races this year and the jockey has not used the whip once in 4 races, not asked for run once in 4 races, not urged in 4 races. there is nothing there.

Yes he did come off as being snobish.

My whole point being, avg people who don't watch racing well.. don't normally watch racing. But they see that filly winning like that and anyone will say .."wait.. I want to see THAT run in the kentucky derby or at least run against the boys" I'll tune in and watch that. and it bewilders non horse racing fans that we even have to have this discussion.

[rastajenk]

and anyone will say .."wait.. I want to see THAT run in the kentucky derby or at least run against the boys" I'll tune in and watch that. and it bewilders non horse racing fans that we even have to have this discussion.I think you give the "anyones" out there in the general sports public way too much credit for making that connection.

[bushwick]

She wont win by 20 lengths again? If she races against these same crows she will! If the preakness or belmont would waive the fee for her to start I bet she would race against the boys. It would not be good business sense to pay the exhorbetent amount required to start. You have already tried and convicted these connections for not running in the derby. Even for the best colt the derby is a crapshoot at best let alone a fillie who weighs 200lbs less. Unless everything went her way she would be lucky to be third. Then some of the luster would be gone off the princesses crown. Today she stands unopposed tommorow when we have a derby winner the demand for a show down will run its course. You are more concerned about your curiosity than what is good for racing. Her not racing against colts for awhile will peak the interest in racing.

[toussaud]

I think you give the "anyones" out there in the general sports public way too much credit for making that connection.

yes and no. all my friends ask if any horse they see, rather it is a 2YO filly or a 10 year old gelding if they are running in the derby :lol:

Buswick, I didn't say she wouldn't, i'm just saying I don't think that is the new standard that is all.

[toussaud]

She wont win by 20 lengths again? If she races against these same crows she will! If the preakness or belmont would waive the fee for her to start I bet she would race against the boys. It would not be good business sense to pay the exhorbetent amount required to start. You have already tried and convicted these connections for not running in the derby. Even for the best colt the derby is a crapshoot at best let alone a fillie who weighs 200lbs less. Unless everything went her way she would be lucky to be third. Then some of the luster would be gone off the princesses crown. Today she stands unopposed tommorow when we have a derby winner the demand for a show down will run its course. You are more concerned about your curiosity than what is good for racing. Her not racing against colts for awhile will peak the interest in racing.

read what I told Ol'reb. I think you are misunderstanding me. I said, and I quote, that I actually can see their point about the derby. NO, my gripe is in parituclar the post race. it has nothing to do with the pre race or the race.

I never "crucified" the connections for not running in the derby when she never even had a grade 1 under her belt. I blasted the owner for getting on the center stage and soundling like a snob and making those stupid comments and locking the door on her running aginst the "future stallions"

[bushwick]

Like I said .He was defending his position of running in oaks instead of derby. Believe me the door is open for racing against the boys down the road. The payday will be there, if not in the triple crown. Then some track will put up huge dollars for a matchup. That will be good for racing. That's the best case scenario. In my opinion.

[toussaud]

Like I said .He was defending his position of running in oaks instead of derby. Believe me the door is open for racing against the boys down the road. The payday will be there, if not in the triple crown. Then some track will put up huge dollars for a matchup. That will be good for racing. That's the best case scenario. In my opinion.
no, i'm pretty sure they asked him would he consider running in the belmont off this effort and that's when he made the comment.

they also did ask him about any regrets and he did say he had none, and they asked borel and he said although he thought she could win the derby they made the right decision.

the "future stallions" comment came when asked about future races.


no one is saying she must run in the belmont. I wouldn't run in the belmont to be honest. But assuming the goal is the alabama "(which it always is for 3YO fillies) and the BC Distaff... would it kill him to run her in the jim dandy? or the haskell? might be too close. ESPN would piss on themselves televising a RA / and (insert 2-3 top 3YO's here) matchup.

throw the horse racing public a freaking bone. people talk about not wanting to get any type of eight belles publicity. hell right now we are watching the oaks on freaking bravo! we aren't getting ANY pub. horse racing and boxing have the same demise. no stars. and when you get one that can fight or run a little, they duck and dodge utnil they have no skills no more or retire to shed.

[Relwob Owner]

Like I said .He was defending his position of running in oaks instead of derby. Believe me the door is open for racing against the boys down the road. The payday will be there, if not in the triple crown. Then some track will put up huge dollars for a matchup. That will be good for racing. That's the best case scenario. In my opinion.

It is interesting...this could set up a scenario that could keep interest going in horses AFTER the Triple Crown....hopefully, the people in racing are paying attention to this as a huge opportunity in this and maybe future years....

[bushwick]

Winning this race in my opinion by 20 lengths was better for racing than if she had won the derby by 2 lengths. Because then she would have been the only star, now tommorow we will have a derby winner and the mystique will still be there. There will be debates all around the country at water coolers, soccer practice ,who is best. The outcome of how this is setting up could be huge for racing if marketed properly. I am convinced this could be huge for racing baring any injuries to those involved which is always a possibility.

[BlueShoe]

Taking nothing away from RA and her stunning performance today,but perhaps we should wait a few months before proclaiming her the queen of female runners.Assume a swift,contested pace against older fillies and mares,and then see what happens when an in form,healthy Zenyatta comes calling.Sure would like to see these two hook up later,it would be a real treat.

[bushwick]

We are talking 3yr olds right now forget Zenyatta forget Einstein

[toussaud]

Winning this race in my opinion by 20 lengths was better for racing than if she had won the derby by 2 lengths. Because then she would have been the only star, now tommorow we will have a derby winner and the mystique will still be there. There will be debates all around the country at water coolers, soccer practice ,who is best. The outcome of how this is setting up could be huge for racing if marketed properly. I am convinced this could be huge for racing baring any injuries to those involved which is always a possibility.
the problem with that arguement is that the general public doesn't consider a filly a star unless they win a classic race.

serena's song wasn't great becuase she lost to flanders in the juve distaff. she was great because she bumped heads and beat the boys.


horse racing would not know how to market a superstar if it fell in it's lap. and it has.

you run the best against the best. legends, fans and money are made though classic matchups, not watching a 1/5 RA go up against stardom bound "(who culdn't come within 10) and what a pear in the coaching club and win in a laugher.

[Bubba X]

the problem with that arguement is that the general public doesn't consider a filly a star unless they win a classic race.

serena's song wasn't great becuase she lost to flanders in the juve distaff. she was great because she bumped heads and beat the boys.


horse racing would not know how to market a superstar if it fell in it's lap. and it has.

you run the best against the best. legends, fans and money are made though classic matchups, not watching a 1/5 RA go up against stardom bound "(who culdn't come within 10) and what a pear in the coaching club and win in a laugher.

Frank Whiteley might disagree with you.

[toussaud]

No, Frank's issue was the match race, not necessarily going against the boys. If I recall, he had no problem with it, but he knew that their entire goal was to pit the derby winner (foolish pleasure) against ruffian and everything else was just a ploy. he did not want ruffian running full speed at that distance with no race strategy, just dueling for that long.

[Bubba X]

Ok, but I don't remember Ruffian ever running at anything other than full speed.

[toussaud]

no there is a HUGE difference between a front running ruffian in a race doing what RA was able to do, coast and then turn it on at will and kill th compititon, and a ruffian running full throttle stride for stride with a horse she cannot allow to shake lose and he the same.
which is why Frank was against it, and I don't blame him and I wouldnt' blame ra's connections if they were suggesting either.

heck they even ran personal ensign (and took a perfect record into the race, in the slop no less) and rain her in the whitney. that's what great connections do with great horses. you run in great races.

[Bubba X]

no there is a HUGE difference between a front running ruffian in a race doing what RA was able to do, coast and then turn it on at will and kill th compititon, and a ruffian running full throttle stride for stride with a horse she cannot allow to shake lose and he the same.
which is why Frank was against it, and I don't blame him and I wouldnt' blame ra's connections if they were suggesting either.

heck they even ran personal ensign (and took a perfect record into the race, in the slop no less) and rain her in the whitney. that's what great connections do with great horses. you run in great races.
Exactly my point. RA would have a FAR harder time vs colts than she had against the rats she beat today.

Maybe she'd trounce good colts but I'd bet against it. I just think you're overstating the positive impacts on the sport (fans, money, legends were the words you used, I believe you used) might occur.

I happened to be at Belmont for the Gazelle in 2007 when Rags to Riches got beat by Lears Princess in her first race after the Belmont. The weather was good. And 8,000 people showed up.

[bushwick]

Rachel will be remembered for the race today. What she did before today was a pitance compared to her performance today. No one expected this. Even her connections.

[bushwick]

Toussaud, No offense my opinion is you are getting way ahead of the game. This as I said earlier wont be sorted out tonite. It has a chance to set up one of the biggest races in the last 25 years. Which is what the sport needs get people behind the filly or the colt. deciding it overnight is too quick here is a chance to draw an audience. I think that is what best for racing.

[toussaud]

Toussaud, No offense my opinion is you are getting way ahead of the game. This as I said earlier wont be sorted out tonite. It has a chance to set up one of the biggest races in the last 25 years. Which is what the sport needs get people behind the filly or the colt. deciding it overnight is too quick here is a chance to draw an audience. I think that is what best for racing.


I think you are missing my point. I know it's not going to be decided in one day or night or weekend.

But it just peeves me to see owners have that type of snobish attitude when NO ONE IN AMERICA GIVES A DAMN ABOUT HORSE RACING.

look on espn. n one utside of the state of kentucky gives a crap about the kentucky derby this weekend. it says so in a poll. I have watched espn all day and i haven't seen one highlight or mention of what is probably the most breath taking race I've seen in years.

My point isn't that she will or wont' race against the colts, although that I would hope would happen, but truth be told a match against zenyatta would be a match for the ages as well. I'm not stupid.

my point is, who in the hell gives that man the right to have that snobish "we won't even consider" it attitude with the state of our game is in now?

the fact that he even came off the way he did, like we should be lucky if he even considers running her against the best of 3YO colts in the country, is what is pissing me off and it's what is wrong.

I jsiut got done watching the oaks on freaking bravo and in I've seen all of 2 mintues of coverage of the kentucky derby on ESPN all day long. that's why I'm hot. then the same people turn around and wonder why no one wants to cover horse racing and why we can't draw fans and why espn would rather show a rerun of rome is burning instead of the future event for 3YO fillies in the country. It's not the breakdowns, it's not the "drug trainers"... our owners don't even want to run in the best races. If the owners don't want to run in the best, why should fans want to WATCH the best? It's proud spell, the best 3YO filly in the country retirning earliy to dodge zenyatta in the distaff. It's commentator not shipping west to run int he championship race. It's when a undefeated 5YO champion mare scratches out of a race with a crowd of 100k people there becuase the track is "good" and not "fast". when 20 years ago personal ensign took on the boys in the slop and won.
It's owners afraid of compitition becuase they are scared they are going to lose a mythical crown if they have a blimish on their record.
i"m sure he's a fine guy, the owner. But that purist, you will be so lucky if I consider her to run against the boys attitude is what is killing the sport. At least in my opinion

[Charli125]

I'm sorry to interrupt all of your arguing, but I've had a very long day, and I just got home and watched the replay.

That was incredible. It looked like everyone else was standing still. So, go back to your arguing, but I'm going to watch the replay again because that was awesome.

[toussaud]

I'm sorry to interrupt all of your arguing, but I've had a very long day, and I just got home and watched the replay.

That was incredible. It looked like everyone else was standing still. So, go back to your arguing, but I'm going to watch the replay again because that was awesome.

i was on the phone with my girlfriend who was also watching the race. when rachael alexandra was on the outside of GGG getting ready to pounce on her, and GGG was all out and RA was still galloping and RA pulled up right next to her and you could see just how much bigger she was than her, she summed it up perfectly...

"that's just not fair"

[WinterTriangle]

I guess i disagree. I have no desire to push the Ruffian-Eight Belles-Three Ring envelope. Rags to Riches won the Belmont outdueling Curlin, was exhausted for 3 months afterward, and then was injured in her first race back and had to be retired.

Because RA is *fast*, isn't enough reason to run her against the boys. It is about strength and stamina, too. Just because she's winning doesn't *mean* she should, from a genetics standpoint, run against boys. There's a LOT more to it than that.

Baffert, for instance, is pretty much against doing this, and he's a good trainer. I'm sure there are others.

Also, perphaps because I'm a female, but I'm somewhat uncomfortable with why a filly is considered "proving something" by running against the boys? What's wrong with being the greatest filly on earth? Isn't that proving something? Why isn't it considered an accomplishment, having run against your own and completely annhililated them..... ALL of them? Until you run out of competitors. So what. Everything ends. I just enjoy it for what it is.


I never hear people say this about the Olympics. Or tennis, either.

If fillies "should" compete against colts, then shouldn't the same thing happen in human sports? Would Chrissie Everett be *greater* had she played against John Conners?

[ryesteve]

Would Chrissie Everett be *greater* had she played against John Conners?You mean Jimmy, right?

But since you brought up the tennis analogy, let me ask you: what do people remember Billie Jean King for? All of her grand slam titles, or her match against Bobby Riggs?

[eastie]

as long as there is an undefeated filly named Zenyatta, there is no reason for her to run against the boys. It's a much better story for the 2 undefeated girls to meet up eventually in the distaff at the end of the year.
When there are no fillies left to run against.....that's one thing, but the champ is still the champ till she gets beaten, and RA hasn't done that. Zenyatta would be the fave too.

[Charli125]

i was on the phone with my girlfriend who was also watching the race. when rachael alexandra was on the outside of GGG getting ready to pounce on her, and GGG was all out and RA was still galloping and RA pulled up right next to her and you could see just how much bigger she was than her, she summed it up perfectly...

"that's just not fair"

I showed my fiance the video, and she said about the same. She doesn't even watch horse racing, but she let out an, "Oh My God, it looks like she's jogging!".

[toussaud]

i'm just telling it like it is. and only really in america is this even a real issue. we live our lives in fear of PETA. the sunlines, the Makaybe Diva's, the six perfections, miesque's, my flag's, goldikova's, zarkava's,personal ensigns, the oujia board's aren't great becuase they beat fillies, no matter how many times they do it.

fans want to see the best go against the best, regardless of what sex that might be.

RA could beat Zenyatta by 15 lengths and the public still would not have an idea who she was for the most part. the vast majroity of people would say why isn't she running agsinst the boys.

not saying that fillies have to race against boys but it is what it is.


as big of an issue as it is here, they just ran the 2000 guiness overseas and heart shaped a (gasp) filly was in the race owned by coolmore. you run the best horses, regardless of sex, in the best races.

[Relwob Owner]

i'm just telling it like it is. and only really in america is this even a real issue. we live our lives in fear of PETA. the sunlines, the Makaybe Diva's, the six perfections, miesque's, my flag's, goldikova's, zarkava's,personal ensigns, the oujia board's aren't great becuase they beat fillies, no matter how many times they do it.

fans want to see the best go against the best, regardless of what sex that might be.

RA could beat Zenyatta by 15 lengths and the public still would not have an idea who she was for the most part. the vast majroity of people would say why isn't she running agsinst the boys.

not saying that fillies have to race against boys but it is what it is.


I think I agree with you here for the most part. I also dont buy the analogy to men vs. women in other sports...these are animals and there is a much more proven track record of female horses running against males and running well when compared with men vs women in sports

[toussaud]

i guess you are right.
oh BTW, RA got a 107 beyer

[Relwob Owner]

i guess you are right.
oh BTW, RA got a 107 beyer


wow. if pressed, could have been a 110 or 111....who are you going with today?

[toussaud]

Dunkirk. Hell I have no choice even if I wanted one.

[Relwob Owner]

Dunkirk. Hell I have no choice even if I wanted one.

Gotcha...best of luck to ya....I am probably going with POTN but may drop a West Side Bernie bomb....


Do you think you will get 7 to 2?

[toussaud]

if he's under 5 to 1 i'll actually sit the derby out.

[joanied]

I am simply going to enjoy this great race moment....any speculation concerning RA running with the boys and meeting up with Zenyatta comes too soon after her incredible run in the Oaks...but as WinterTriangle mentioned...what's wrong with RA being the greatest filly:ThmbUp:

[toussaud]

I am simply going to enjoy this great race moment....any speculation concerning RA running with the boys and meeting up with Zenyatta comes too soon after her incredible run in the Oaks...but as WinterTriangle mentioned...what's wrong with RA being the greatest filly:ThmbUp:

because the great fillies beat the boys. that's the general measuring stick.

you can't put her in the same class as the oujia boards, six perfections, my flags, etc utnil she does what they did. you just can't call her great for the hell of it.
that's like say, the USC trojans beating up on pac 10 teams all day long and never going to the bCS championship game, and then being asked to be called great in spite of never beating the best. doesn't work that way in sports.

[toussaud]

RA to race in the acorn on the belmont undercard :sleeping:

[Relwob Owner]

RA to race in the acorn on the belmont undercard :sleeping:


I read that.....amazing to me that they are so set on not even trying it......I just watched the Oaks again and wow

[toussaud]

that's not even going for the trile tiara.

color me disappointed

[joanied]

because the great fillies beat the boys. that's the general measuring stick.

you can't put her in the same class as the oujia boards, six perfections, my flags, etc utnil she does what they did. you just can't call her great for the hell of it.
that's like say, the USC trojans beating up on pac 10 teams all day long and never going to the bCS championship game, and then being asked to be called great in spite of never beating the best. doesn't work that way in sports.

Well, I was going to ignore this thread for today...but I'll jump in with a few lines...except that I won't start using comparisons like the USC trojans or tennis matchups...comparing human and horse athletes is comparing apples & oranges...
so far, it's not that RA hasn't run against some top fillies (I agree she didn't beat much in the Oaks)...it's how she wins...it's that she does everything on her own, it's that she worked in 46 and then went out and won, galloping, by 20 lengths...we don't know what this filly really is yet...but I beleive we will be putting her up there with the likes of the fillies you mentioned....including Ruffian...and speaking of Ruffian...the only colt she faced, well, we know how that turned out...so in context, she was proclaimed the greatest filly ever and all she did was race with other fillies...it was the way she won her races.

I think that some fillies/mares should run with the boys...and do so with no ill effects...
but, let's wait and see what will happen...I do hope the owner of RA will be more like Allen Paulson, Jess Jackson and several others and while putting his filly first, also thinks about the sport and the fans and shows he's a true sportsman.
By the way...you're point concerning the scratch of Z yesterday...you must agree that the horse has to come first...and IMO, considering Z hasn't raced in 6 months...an off track prob'ly wasn't the best thing for her first out of the season...I only hope that they'll ship her out of CA again.

By the way...best of luck with your bets today:ThmbUp:

[toussaud]

yes the horse ALWAYS comes first, you will never hear me say otherwise. however I think alot of z's scratch has to do with her unblimished racing record than the actual track. there was nothign WRONG with big z whatsoever.

anyway I'm not the only one that feels that wayu

great performance and the first thing i did afterwards was power up the laptop and watch Secretariat at the Belmont on Youtube. I thought the owners comments on the filly/colt divide was silly and hopefully we see her take on the boys.



http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/west_points/2009/05/how-good-is-rachel.html

http://msn.foxsports.com/horseracing/story/9526320/What-if-Rachel-Alexandra-had-run-in-the-Derby



the mistake you are making is thinking I am taking a right or wrong stand. All I am doing is telling you what the public cares about and wants to see. everyone and their momma wants to see RA take on the top 3yO colts.

[depalma113]

I guess gelding's have no business running in any Classic.

[joanied]

No, Frank's issue was the match race, not necessarily going against the boys. If I recall, he had no problem with it, but he knew that their entire goal was to pit the derby winner (foolish pleasure) against ruffian and everything else was just a ploy. he did not want ruffian running full speed at that distance with no race strategy, just dueling for that long.

Yes...he hated the idea of a match race...it wasn't supposed to be a match...the trainers of the colts all opted not to run against her...Jolley took up the challenge, but he wasn't thrilled about it either.

[joanied]

I guess gelding's have no business running in any Classic.

Don't see what geldings have to do with fillies vs the colts:confused:

[joanied]

yes the horse ALWAYS comes first, you will never hear me say otherwise. however I think alot of z's scratch has to do with her unblimished racing record than the actual track. there was nothign WRONG with big z whatsoever.

anyway I'm not the only one that feels that wayu

great performance and the first thing i did afterwards was power up the laptop and watch Secretariat at the Belmont on Youtube. I thought the owners comments on the filly/colt divide was silly and hopefully we see her take on the boys.



http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/west_points/2009/05/how-good-is-rachel.html

http://msn.foxsports.com/horseracing/story/9526320/What-if-Rachel-Alexandra-had-run-in-the-Derby



the mistake you are making is thinking I am taking a right or wrong stand. All I am doing is telling you what the public cares about and wants to see. everyone and their momma wants to see RA take on the top 3yO colts.

I agree with you, toussaud...the public would clammer for a fillies vs the colts scenario...me too, for the most part...I wouldn't want to see a little thing like Proud Spell run with the colts...but mares like Zenyatta and Rachel A, big, strong, powerful mares can sure as hell compete with the colts...

[depalma113]

Don't see what geldings have to do with fillies vs the colts:confused:

The man said the race is to showcase future stallions.

[PaceAdvantage]

RA to race in the acorn on the belmont undercard :sleeping:On a selfish note, I'm glad to hear this..since I'll get to see her in person.