Guess who's fingerprints are all over the smoking gun?

[Valuist]

I've been saying this all along......why the media, for the most part has ignored this is beyond me. There was far more paid to counterparties than went for bonuses:


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Even-Jack-Bauer-couldnt-stop/story.aspx?guid=%7BBE0D1772-A628-454D-80BF-C4484CEBA7DF%7D

[slewis]

I've been saying this all along......why the media, for the most part has ignored this is beyond me. There was far more paid to counterparties than went for bonuses:


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Even-Jack-Bauer-couldnt-stop/story.aspx?guid=%7BBE0D1772-A628-454D-80BF-C4484CEBA7DF%7D


Ummmm When I traded in the Intl banking market.... The SMALLEST ..SMALLEST trades institutions will do with each other (creating your "counterparty").. was 10 million US or equiv.

Most trades were 50's and 100's at a clip (as in millions of dollars, Pounds, CHF, Euros, etc).. Yen was traded in YARDS ,, as in BILLION yen.

Valuist.. understand how the counterparty payouts ( if they were losses) would dwarf bonuses???

When I started in the business, I couldn't believe the numbers thrown around... and when you said "I need a price on 50" it was understood as 50 Million.

[Valuist]

Ummmm When I traded in the Intl banking market.... The SMALLEST ..SMALLEST trades institutions will do with each other (creating your "counterparty").. was 10 million US or equiv.

Most trades were 50's and 100's at a clip (as in millions of dollars, Pounds, CHF, Euros, etc).. Yen was traded in YARDS ,, as in BILLION yen.

Valuist.. understand how the counterparty payouts ( if they were losses) would dwarf bonuses???

When I started in the business, I couldn't believe the numbers thrown around... and when you said "I need a price on 50" it was understood as 50 Million.

Exactly. My whole point was that Paulson had a very strong conflict of interest in getting AIG bailed out. The media hasn't said a whole lot about the fact that his previous job before being Treasury Sec was as the CEO of Goldman, where he made $38 million in 2006. Add the fact that AIG CEO Liddy is on the Board at GS and owns several million shares........why didn't AIG tell their counterparties they'd only get 50% or 60% of their payouts? THat's far better than nothing. They didn't HAVE to make Goldman (or Deutsche Bank or any of the other paid back counterparties) whole.

[PaceAdvantage]

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[slewis]

Exactly. My whole point was that Paulson had a very strong conflict of interest in getting AIG bailed out. The media hasn't said a whole lot about the fact that his previous job before being Treasury Sec was as the CEO of Goldman, where he made $38 million in 2006. Add the fact that AIG CEO Liddy is on the Board at GS and owns several million shares........why didn't AIG tell their counterparties they'd only get 50% or 60% of their payouts? THat's far better than nothing. They didn't HAVE to make Goldman (or Deutsche Bank or any of the other paid back counterparties) whole.


Because the ENTIRE world banking system would have collapsed.

This has been debated on another thread, as you may or may not have read.
The reason we have SOME form of stability today is because they took the steps they did.
Look at what's just taken place in Somalia, with a bunch of pirates, how we and other countries are freezing assets. Now imagine if ALL German, French, Swiss, Dutch, etc banks, freeze US assets.. (not only banks, ALL assets) of the US banks, citizens and businesses until the US govt covered AIG debt.
(Im convinced, when sued, these foreign banks would go into THEIR countries courts and argue that the US Govt was lax in proper oversight, therefore responsible for AIG's cavalier ways.) This is also just one of many scenarios.

[Tom]

So let them go whine and cry.
France gonna do something about it? :lol:

Seriously, screw Europe.
Let them fail.

[delayjf]

Ummmm When I traded in the Intl banking market
Slewis,
I admire your experience and expertise - I've read and reread the AIG thread a few times and it still gives me a head ach. I'm not sure which is thicker, the FOG of war or the FOG of Business / Economics.

[slewis]

So let them go whine and cry.
France gonna do something about it? :lol:

Seriously, screw Europe.
Let them fail.

Tom,

If you owned 13 McDonalds in another country (or other), or a large beverage distributorship, and that country seized those assets because you're an american corporation, you'd be screaming bloody you know what.
Now Im not saying this exactly is what would happen, but it certainly is a possibility, (or one of many)

Years ago, the Clinton administration froze ALL assets of Montenegro, including legit businesses here in the states.

In world crisis, anything goes....

[slewis]

Slewis,
I admire your experience and expertise - I've read and reread the AIG thread a few times and it still gives me a head ach. I'm not sure which is thicker, the FOG of war or the FOG of Business / Economics.


I think Im starting to give everyone a headache.....:bang:

Incl myself.

[Tom]

Tom,

If you owned 13 McDonalds in another country (or other), or a large beverage distributorship, and that country seized those assets because you're an american corporation, you'd be screaming bloody you know what.
Now Im not saying this exactly is what would happen, but it certainly is a possibility, (or one of many)

Years ago, the Clinton administration froze ALL assets of Montenegro, including legit businesses here in the states.

In world crisis, anything goes....

But I don't own any, and at this point, I really don't care about anyone who does. In a world crisis, take care of your own. I stand up for the right of corporations, and argue the left's folly of trying to rape them, but I do not give a hoot if any of them go under or go broke. And I certainly have zero interest in what happens to Europe. NO TAX DOLLARS anywhere except right here to benefit taxpayers.

[ddog]

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.


PA ,

alert alert alert

I agree with YOU 100%.

I hope we don't just let this thing drop if and when the dust settles.

I am convinced that U.S. law was broken and that Paulson and Bernake took and in bernake case are taking a most disasterous course.

I do agree that we couldn't let AIG die in that timeframe but it MUST not happen again.

The real problem to me was that AIG was providing capital cover for many banks that if not made whole would have wiped out 50-70% or more of some BIG banks Tier1 cap.

That , happening everywhere overnight would have been the end of financial life as we have known it.

I wonder if the Fed and the other gvts could have just stepped in and backed the banks capital like has been done since and then let AIG die?

We will never know now i guess?

As to the foreign banks, we are tied at the hip to them and them to us as well as China. We can't function in the short term without them.

China is doing some interesting moves.

I am convinced they see a way to make a currency market between them and some other resource rich countries and slowly cutting the greenback out of the mix.

It is starting and they will do it slowly but I think it's coming.

I fear our world will turn on a dime after that is accomplished.