California to discuss takeout raise

[rrbauer]

At this Friday's CHRB meeting. I have read the "analysis" prepared by one of the CHRB staff members and it assumes NO DECLINE IN HANDLE WHEN TAKEOUT IS RAISED. Unreal.


From Friday's agenda:
"6. Discussion and action by the Board regarding an increase in the take-out on conventional and exotic wagers on races conducted by thoroughbred racing associations as permitted by Business and Professions Code section 19601.01 and the modification of California advance deposit wagering (ADW) distributions on thoroughbred races as permitted under Business and Professions Code section 19604(f) (5)(E)."

The top dog:

Kirk Breed, Executive Director, KEBreed@chrb.ca.gov

[andymays]

I will refuse to go to or wager on any of these tracks in California if they raise the take!

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Raise takeout and lower minimums.......This will bring racing back to it's glory years.

[andymays]

Raise takeout and lower minimums.......This will bring racing back to it's glory years.


It worked for Laurel. They were only down 26% from last year.

How many geniuses does it take to run California racing?

[point given]

I don't play polycrap anyway, just another reason to stay away from cali racing. Thats assuming they have enough horses to run in races too. What a combo, small fields, polycrap, and higher takeout , a trifecta.

[BELMONT 6-6-09]

I don't play polycrap anyway, just another reason to stay away from cali racing. Thats assuming they have enough horses to run in races too. What a combo, small fields, polycrap, and higher takeout , a trifecta.

Nice one Point...maybe one day they will have their usual close to match race fields and no one will bet and no one will care.(LOL)

[fmolf]

nice point...i stopped betting maryland because they raised their takeout ...their 14% p3 was one of the best wagers in the game....and the brain surgeons had to ruin it.....i do not wager cal. tracks now since the poly has skewed all the results...... look what happened in the eight tody at keeneland...35/1 shot led all the way in a route race!....horse no way figured at all as far as i'm concerned...

[kenwoodallpromos]

I do not think CHRB is too worried about driving away bettors who look for excuses not to bet Ca anyway.
IMO if they want to raise takeout they should do it by figuring more types of exotics to bet!!
Email them and tell them to invent a progressive carryover longshot bet for the feature race of the day.

[Indulto]

Sounds to me as if they're about to pull a NYRA -- raise takeout and then offer cash rewards based on volume. I hope I'm wrong, but the small bankroll bettor is going to get screwed once again. A player-owned ADW is the only hope. I'd put up a grand to get one off the ground. Where are the other 499 of you? ;)

[lamboguy]

why don't they just raise the takeout to 90% and keep everyone away. or leave the buckets outside the parking lot like i have said before and never mind putting on a horseracing program.

i have no idea how they have some good horses there this year. i have no idea how anyone bets their money there either. i see horses dropping on the lead every single race there.

personally i hardly ever play anything there. i think i bet a grand total of 3 maiden races in santa anita for the last meet. 2 of them i happened to have won and the other i ran second.

i saw an exacta payoff drop in the winners circle there from $530 to $350 by the time they unsaddled the horse. that is probably the main reason i don't play the track. of course everyone is going to accuse me of having sour grapes. my grapes are green, and i go nowhere near california racing!!!
i promise that they will remain green.

[BlueShoe]

Perhaps this should go on the General forum,but Obamamania may be spreading to our sport.The idea that letting people keep less somehow equals more at some vague time in the future.California is a very Liberal state.Should know this since I live here,but just how do CHRB members get their positions?Assume they are political appointees,but who does the appointing?Aahnoold probably has the final say,and have never heard him say much about horseracing.

[rwwupl]

California needs new management.

[Imriledup]

Hopefully they'll raise the takeout,that will give me an excuse to not follow california racing anymore.

[turfnsport]

Racing in California is becoming more irrelevant to horseplayers each and every day.

There are just too many better options out there.

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

Obviously, raising takeout isn't a good thing but Cali's takeout will still be lower than most other states.

[NJ Stinks]

I don't play polycrap anyway, just another reason to stay away from cali racing.

I couldn't have said it better. :ThmbUp:

[Hajck Hillstrom]

What a bunch of muppets.

[rrbauer]

nice point...i stopped betting maryland because they raised their takeout ...their 14% p3 was one of the best wagers in the game....and the brain surgeons had to ruin it.....i do not wager cal. tracks now since the poly has skewed all the results...... look what happened in the eight tody at keeneland...35/1 shot led all the way in a route race!....horse no way figured at all as far as i'm concerned...

That race was on the turf!

[rrbauer]

Obviously, raising takeout isn't a good thing but Cali's takeout will still be lower than most other states.

Fair point (although takeout on exacta's and double's is lower than Cal in many venues). An across-the-board, 1-point increase, pushes them down the lowest-takeout list.

http://www.trackthieves.com/TakeoutType.html

And they have earned this price increase by: (Your list)

[Dave Schwartz]

Let me see if I have this right.

California's racing is in pure decline - number of horses, attendance, ability of ADWs to carry them, predictability of the races (at Santa Anita) - even the number of tracks is in decline.

And the solution is to make the wagering less attractive?

That is the equivilent of a retail store saying, "Times are hard for us right now. Let's raise the prices!"


These people are acting like idiots.

[rrbauer]

Let me see if I have this right.

California's racing is in pure decline - number of horses, attendance, ability of ADWs to carry them, predictability of the races (at Santa Anita) - even the number of tracks is in decline.

And the solution is to make the wagering less attractive?

That is the equivilent of a retail store saying, "Times are hard for us right now. Let's raise the prices!"


These people are acting like idiots.

David, you're right on all counts!

[Niko]

look what happened in the eight tody at keeneland...35/1 shot led all the way in a route race!....horse no way figured at all as far as i'm concerned...

That would never happen on a dirt track :rolleyes:

[BillW]

That would never happen on a dirt track :rolleyes:

That rarely happens on the KEE turf either. That turf course is usually a killer for front end speed.

[Imriledup]

Let me see if I have this right.

California's racing is in pure decline - number of horses, attendance, ability of ADWs to carry them, predictability of the races (at Santa Anita) - even the number of tracks is in decline.

And the solution is to make the wagering less attractive?

That is the equivilent of a retail store saying, "Times are hard for us right now. Let's raise the prices!"


These people are acting like idiots.

They are only idiots if we all stop betting on their product. We all have to take a stand. If we don't take a stand, we're just the sheep they think we are.

Just say no to California.

[SMOO]

Let me see if I have this right.

California's racing is in pure decline - number of horses, attendance, ability of ADWs to carry them, predictability of the races (at Santa Anita) - even the number of tracks is in decline.

And the solution is to make the wagering less attractive?

That is the equivilent of a retail store saying, "Times are hard for us right now. Let's raise the prices!"


These people are acting like idiots.
:ThmbUp:

[DeanT]

Jeff's letter to the CHRB on behalf of HANA members about the possible hike at CA tracks.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/04/platt-letter-to-chrb-and-miller.html

[andymays]

Jeff's letter to the CHRB on behalf of HANA members about the possible hike at CA tracks.

http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/04/platt-letter-to-chrb-and-miller.html


Atta Boy Jeff!

[kenwoodallpromos]

I cannot find either, can someone direct me?

[rrbauer]

I cannot find either, can someone direct me?

If you went to the meeting, you had 3 minutes to provide fan input. :lol:

[trying2win]

If the CHRB thinks that raising the takeout on California racing is a good idea to raise revenue, I think they're crazy! How dumb can they get? I wonder if the TOC or Tracknet is somehow involved in influencing the CHRB to consider this money-grabbing scheme from bettors?

Regarding the criticism of trying to handicap California thoroughbred tracks with their polytrack surfaces. I'm guessing the majority of handicappers, if asked their opinion, would say :ThmbDown: to polytrack in California and other racetracks in the USA and Canada. In my experience, regular handicapping doesn't work on polytrack. Maybe these two options might:

1. A crystal ball or

2. An ouiji board

T2W
---------------------------------------------------------------------
~"A nickel isn't worth a dime today."

Yogi Berra

[andymays]

The webcast of their meeting starts in 4 minutes(2:00pm WST).

You can get it at http://www.chrb.ca.gov/

[Overlay]

At this Friday's CHRB meeting. I have read the "analysis" prepared by one of the CHRB staff members and it assumes NO DECLINE IN HANDLE WHEN TAKEOUT IS RAISED. Unreal.

Reminds me of the debate over supply-side economics and the Laffer curve when Reagan took office, where some people couldn't understand that the way to increase revenue was to cut tax rates, rather than to keep raising them.

[andymays]

If anyone is listening to the CHRB webcast Jerry Jamagotchian rocks!

[Cangamble]

If anyone is listening to the CHRB webcast Jerry Jamagotchian rocks!
I'm listening, and it appears that they are already set to up the takeout 1% or so. What they seem to have put aside is the idea to put it up around 2%.

[andymays]

To tell you the truth I have no idea what they're gonna do. I'm just very impressed with Jamagotchian sticking up for the Horseplayer and not the Racetrack.

[rrbauer]

No increase in takeout. It's all about the distribution split on bets taken by ADW's for California players. Unfortunately, the item was misrepresented on the Agenda which makes me think that was intentional to see what protests came from it. A "trial" balloon.

We just need to keep raising Hell with these people. Jerry Jamgotchian (owner) is the only positive thing at this meeting.

[rwwupl]

If anyone is listening to the CHRB webcast Jerry Jamagotchian rocks!


GO GO J.J. ! (Jamgotian) :cool:

[rwwupl]

No increase in takeout. It's all about the distribution split on bets taken by ADW's for California players. Unfortunately, the item was misrepresented on the Agenda which makes me think that was intentional to see what protests came from it. A "trial" balloon.

We just need to keep raising Hell with these people. Jerry Jamgotchian (owner) is the only positive thing at this meeting.

------------------------------------------------------------
Item 6 on the agenda is confusing if there is no raise in take out. What the ?
-------------------------------------------------------------
6. Discussion and action by the Board regarding an increase in the take-out on conventional
and exotic wagers on races conducted by thoroughbred racing associations as
permitted by Business and Professions Code section 19601.01 and the modification of
California advance deposit wagering (ADW) distributions on thoroughbred races as
permitted under Business and Professions Code section 19604(f) (5)(E).

I love to hear Jamgotian give them the business.

[andymays]

------------------------------------------------------------
Item 6 on the agenda is confusing if there is no raise in take out. What the ?
-------------------------------------------------------------
6. Discussion and action by the Board regarding an increase in the take-out on conventional
and exotic wagers on races conducted by thoroughbred racing associations as
permitted by Business and Professions Code section 19601.01 and the modification of
California advance deposit wagering (ADW) distributions on thoroughbred races as
permitted under Business and Professions Code section 19604(f) (5)(E).

I love to hear Jamgotian give them the business.


Why don't they let him run things. This guy is great!

[rrbauer]

------------------------------------------------------------
Item 6 on the agenda is confusing if there is no raise in take out. What the ?
-------------------------------------------------------------
6. Discussion and action by the Board regarding an increase in the take-out on conventional
and exotic wagers on races conducted by thoroughbred racing associations as
permitted by Business and Professions Code section 19601.01 and the modification of
California advance deposit wagering (ADW) distributions on thoroughbred races as
permitted under Business and Professions Code section 19604(f) (5)(E).

I love to hear Jamgotian give them the business.

Is he a member of HANA (Dean, CG, whoever)? Because if he isn't, I will contact him and get him to sign up.

[andymays]

I emailed Mike Marten of the CHRB to get me his autograph!

[InsideThePylons-MW]

If you listen to these board meetings, you immediately understand why CA racing is in the toilet.

So many moronic things being said but one struck me as being hilarious......When the issue of reducing race days at Del Mar was brought up, one board member's immediate worry was asking if the box seat holder's fees would stay the same or be reduced accordingly.

[andymays]

Other than Jamagotchian most of these guys are clueless!

[rwwupl]

CHRB -- Today's meeting--


`"If somebody came along with a big check,and prefered a dirt track, we would consider giving them a waiver"

After forcing the expenditure of 40 million dollars


So much for the sincerity of their commitment of "All for the horse and it's safety" is why we must mandate synthetics.

Hipocracy?

[andymays]

CHRB -- Today's meeting--


`"If somebody came along with a big check,and prefered a dirt track, we would consider giving them a waiver"

After forcing the expenditure of 40 million dollars


So much for the sincerity of their commitment of "All for the horse and it's safety" is why we must mandate synthetics.

Hipocracy?


The handle trend on synthetic surfaces is way down compared to dirt surfaces. These guys are clueless!

[rwwupl]

CHRB--Today's Meeting


"There is no past posting in Ca.,Every time we look into it no one can prove it"

"There is no need to cut off betting when the first horse enters the gate, there is no problem"


They apparently are clueless or they hear no evil,see no evil. WOW!

[Cangamble]

CHRB--Today's Meeting


"There is no past posting in Ca.,Every time we look into it no one can prove it"

"There is no need to cut off betting when the first horse enters the gate, there is no problem"


They apparently are clueless or they hear no evil,see no evil. WOW!
I feel sorry for the industry after listening to most of the meeting. And correct me if I'm wrong, I still think they have a takeout increase already agreed to, and this one was going to be an add on.

The most tragic thing is that they were trying to pat each other on the back for being innovative. Their idea of innovative? Lose Mondays at Del Mar. Not that this isn't a bad IDEA, but they are really stretching the word INNOVATIVE, and that is all they have any way.

[andymays]

I think everyone that listened in can figure out that the people that run California Racing are a small club that is out of touch with reality.

Jerry Jamogotchian was the only sane one at the meeting!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Bo Derek - Member
1010 Hurley Way, Suite 300
Sacramento, CA 95825
Phone (916) 263-6000, Fax (916) 263-6042
e-mail: bderekchrb@verizon.net

[Dave Schwartz]

Innovation? What did they do, add an 8th day to the week?

Trying to make a change - ANY CHANGE - that would benefit the player

Personally, I stopped wagering on CA several months ago. The racing surfaces are unpredictable and, frankly, it appears that they are more concerned with making sure that every entry gets part of the purse than putting up a compettive field.

They just do not have what I am looking for in a place to play.

There are still 50+ other highly betable races for me every day.



Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[kenwoodallpromos]

http://chrb.ca.gov/board_meeting_transcripts/TRANSCRIPT%2003-19-09.pdf
At this meeting Breed introduced eveybody, but forgot to acknowledge Commissioner Bo Derek as attending! I thought her looks held up better than that!LOL!

[BillW]

Of particular interest is Betfair's presentation beginning on page 43.

[takeout]

Very interesting about the technology and all.

Wow. Closed that deal in 48 hours!! That speaks volumes. BOTH WAYS!!

[David-LV]

The handle trend on synthetic surfaces is way down compared to dirt surfaces. These guys are clueless!


The only thing that these clueless geniuses should be talking about at these
meetings is how fast they can get rid of the synthetic garbage and replace them with dirt. The mandate has completly ruined Califorina racing as we knew it.

Califorina's mandate has turned this game into a complete joke unless you just like to pick numbers out of a hat. :( :bang:

_______
David

[andymays]

The handle trend on synthetic surfaces is way down compared to dirt surfaces. These guys are clueless!


Keenland came out this morning with their handle.

Down 19%. Synthetics will save racing right? What a joke!

[BillW]

Keenland came out this morning with their handle.

Down 19%. Synthetics will save racing right? What a joke!

Number of races were down 12% too.

[andymays]

I used to love Keenland and gave the synthetic stuff a try but I got to the point where I don't even look at any of the races at keenland or any other synthetic surface except California because that's been home base all my life.

I am sick that California won't go back to dirt but I think that may change next year. Then again, after listening to the CHRB meeting Friday without new leadership there may not be racing here in 3 years.

[Imriledup]

I used to play some large money on Keeneland but since Polytrack, i've stopped altogether. In fact, i don't even look at the entries anymore, i treat Keeneland like Persona non grata.

[rwwupl]

CHRB--Today's Meeting


"There is no past posting in Ca.,Every time we look into it no one can prove it"

"There is no need to cut off betting when the first horse enters the gate, there is no problem"


They apparently are clueless or they hear no evil,see no evil. WOW!


From Bob Ikes "Notes on a Program" --California,
apr19

Late Odds Drops Have to Stop

Filed Under Uncategorized | Leave a Comment
I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist, but what I saw yesterday at Santa Anita is most disturbing.

As the horses loaded into the gate for the seventh race, the Grade 3 San Simeon Handicap, MR GRUFF was listed at 4/1 on the tote board. After breaking cleanly and getting to the front, his odds dropped to 5/2. He went on to win while paying $7.60, instead of the $10 or so bettors were expecting at post time.

In the 10th race, a maiden claimer for 3-year-olds, favorite FOREIGN TAUREAN was 8/5 going into the gate, but took a huge drop to even-money after breaking well and setting the pace. Again, wire-to-wire, paying $4.00 instead of $5.20 or $5.40 that was expected. In both cases a payoff drop of about 25% from what horseplayers could have expected to receive even if they had wagered at the last possible moment.

To add insult to injury, Pick 4 “will pays” into the final race showed ‘TAUREAN returning $443. However, when the actual payoff came back at $401, winning bettors had been dinged another 10%. As if beating the races isn’t hard enough, winning gamblers lost large percentages of their profits due to the above examples.

Batch betting? Past posting? Taking advantage of the seven-second delay afforded to mutuel clerks in order to cancel (or not cancel) a ticket after the gates open? Something had a very foul odor in the air on the last Saturday of the meet. These problems (loopholes?) need to be fixed immediately.

[fmolf]

I used to play some large money on Keeneland but since Polytrack, i've stopped altogether. In fact, i don't even look at the entries anymore, i treat Keeneland like Persona non grata.
the only way to get dirt back on all tracks in this country is to stop playing at these tracks...when their handle is way down and dirt tracks are managing to keep an even keel with handles steady or slightly increasing maybe these geniuses will realize that they made a mistake.theexodus of horses and stables fleeing southern california should have been enough of a wake up call but it hasn't been! I khope all horseplayers will join in this informal boycott to prove to racetrack management that we the consumer of your product are fed up with their senseless behavior!

[BillW]

Number of races were down 12% too.

Correction 6% (142 vs. 151)

[kenwoodallpromos]

Innovation? What did they do, add an 8th day to the week?

Trying to make a change - ANY CHANGE - that would benefit the player

Personally, I stopped wagering on CA several months ago. The racing surfaces are unpredictable and, frankly, it appears that they are more concerned with making sure that every entry gets part of the purse than putting up a compettive field.

They just do not have what I am looking for in a place to play.

There are still 50+ other highly betable races for me every day.



Regards,
Dave Schwartz
"SANTA ANITA AT A GLANCE

Avg. Winning Odds: 5.34 - 1
Favorite Win%: 34%, Favorite Itm%: 70%

EXOTICS PAYOFF
Exacta/Perfecta: 42.51
Daily Double: 92.07
Trifecta: 303.44
Pick 3: 355.04
Superfecta: 2,647.95
Pick 6: 86,910.80
Pick 4: 2,295.40
Pick 5: 7,885.70
TRACK BIAS MEET(12/26 - 04/19) TRACK BIAS WEEK(04/15 - 04/19)

Distance #
Race %
Wire Best
Style Best
Posts Distance #
Race %
Wire Best
Style Best
Posts
5.5fDirt 59 41% E Mid/Out 5.5fDirt 4 25% E Inside
6.0fDirt 139 23% S Rail/Ins 6.0fDirt 8 25% P Inside
1 MileDirt 78 29% S Inside 1 MileDirt 3 33% S Outside
1 1/16mDirt 88 19% S Middle 1 1/16mDirt 5 0% E/P Rail

Seems like I post these kind of results every meeting at a CA track. Everyone who claims they cannot win on any fake dirt should ask themselves how everybody else is keeping the numbers just like real dirt- Oh yeh- Poly/Tap/Ride is still mostly sand, just like the real dirt! Maybe you all are betting wire-to-wire only!LOL!!

[kenwoodallpromos]

------------------------------------------------------------
Item 6 on the agenda is confusing if there is no raise in take out. What the ?
-------------------------------------------------------------
[COLOR=DarkOrange]6. Discussion and action by the Board regarding an increase in the take-out on conventional
and exotic wagers on races conducted by thoroughbred racing associations as
permitted by Business and Professions Code section 19601.01

That section deals with the %takeout through ADWs.