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View Full Version : Next Pool Party: This Saturday At Turf Paradise


Cangamble
04-22-2009, 08:51 AM
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/04/were-back-with-betting-day.html
Race to be determined shortly. This week we are telling HANA members to play into whatever pool they want.
Turf Paradise was selected for three reasons. Their pool sizes for a Saturday are on the low side, so we can more readily measure our impact.
Arizona doesn't allow internet betting, so we thought we can bring that point up to show how dysfunctional and backwards the industry is.
And finally, Turf Paradise isn't available on TwinSpires so we thought we can make an issue over that as well. One of our major goals is to have all track signals available everywhere.

cj's dad
04-22-2009, 08:57 AM
I still like my idea of a $2 win bet on a bomb (20-1 or more) in a selected race to lower the odds (<2-1) and leave everyone scratching their heads as to "what's up with that"?


HANA, that's who !!

RichieP
04-22-2009, 02:16 PM
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/04/were-back-with-betting-day.html
Race to be determined shortly. This week we are telling HANA members to play into whatever pool they want.
Turf Paradise

All due respect this choice of track makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Rewarding a track with monies bet that has for all intent and purpose the highest takes in racing ??

:confused::confused:

PASS

CBedo
04-22-2009, 02:22 PM
All due respect this choice of track makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Rewarding a track with monies bet that has for all intent and purpose the highest takes in racing ??

:confused::confused:

PASS
I have to agree. The takouts are insane. I have avoided this trrack for that reason for a long itme.

DeanT
04-22-2009, 02:28 PM
With some of these plays each week everyone is thinking 'big picture'. We have about 2000-3000 sets of eyeballs on our betting days at this early stage. If we can make a point with some and educate both fans and track people about how and why we do things, we are doing some good.

This is a big picture week this week. We will be speaking of takeout and the Arizona betting law.

miesque
04-22-2009, 02:33 PM
Its important for everyone to keep in mind that we are very much in the experimentation stage regarding these weekly pool targets, not to mention also being in the early growth stages of participation and consolidated pool strength. In this week's endeavor we are testing out a Saturday pool which have have the ability at this point in time to make an impact in all the pools of a particular race instead of one wager pool in order to give participants the comfort level to bet as they normally bet. Next week we will target another track and most likely make another adjustment in what is being targeted.

On that note, I would like to thank everyone who has participated in the previous Pool Party's and hope you will participate this week. Just so you know, I am one of those inconvenienced by Turf Paradise not being available to me on my Twinspires account so I am having to dust off and transfer some funds to my TVG account solely for this venture.

CBedo
04-22-2009, 02:45 PM
With some of these plays each week everyone is thinking 'big picture'. We have about 2000-3000 sets of eyeballs on our betting days at this early stage. If we can make a point with some and educate both fans and track people about how and why we do things, we are doing some good.

This is a big picture week this week. We will be speaking of takeout and the Arizona betting law.

I think it's great tha we have this many "eyes" watching already, but this means we need to be ever diligent in what we do.

I know that we are trying to target tracks where we can actually see pool impact, but I'm not sure what the "eyes" would think of us wagering money on a track that rapes us. Also, with no Twinspires (and it's ADW dominance seemingly, at least by the PA poll), what will the "eyes" think of HANA if after a successful beginning in the pool party, the numbers decline?

CBedo
04-22-2009, 02:51 PM
Its important for everyone to keep in mind that we are very much in the experimentation stage regarding these weekly pool targets, not to mention also being in the early growth stages of participation and consolidated pool strength. In this week's endeavor we are testing out a Saturday pool which have have the ability at this point in time to make an impact in all the pools of a particular race instead of one wager pool in order to give participants the comfort level to bet as they normally bet. Next week we will target another track and most likely make another adjustment in what is being targeted.

On that note, I would like to thank everyone who has participated in the previous Pool Party's and hope you will participate this week. Just so you know, I am one of those inconvenienced by Turf Paradise not being available to me on my Twinspires account so I am having to dust off and transfer some funds to my TVG account solely for this venture.
Experimentation is great, but with the world watching us, can we afford for the experiment to fail? How long will they keep paying attention to us if the experiments don't show powerful results?

If anything, I'd think that after a few weeks of fairly succesful endeavors, it would really be eye opening if NOONE bet this track this week, to show solidarity against "what's wrong with this sport."

DeanT
04-22-2009, 02:54 PM
I think it's great tha we have this many "eyes" watching already, but this means we need to be ever diligent in what we do.

I know that we are trying to target tracks where we can actually see pool impact, but I'm not sure what the "eyes" would think of us wagering money on a track that rapes us. Also, with no Twinspires (and it's ADW dominance seemingly, at least by the PA poll), what will the "eyes" think of HANA if after a successful beginning in the pool party, the numbers decline?

The chances we all have to take. Each day we get more and more members and we are moving forward. We have to try things and measure them. If things falter we will rejig, and if they continue to prosper we will do more of what we are doing. We get tons of responses about the days and we measure everything based on those. So we hope we come to a good conclusion at the end of each week.

Comments like yours and others are looked at in every call, so keep them coming!

miesque
04-22-2009, 03:09 PM
Dean brings up a very important point that does need to be emphasized and that is we do review all the comments and feedback we get each week regarding the Pool Target during our weekly Board of Directors meeting and those points are discussed and debated, sometimes even argued rather vociferously, after which point next weeks target is selected.The unique part about Turf Paradise as a target is its a great "example" track to highlight fundamental issues which need to be changed both there and elsewhere. Whether it will be an effective way to bring attention to a negative issue will be most certainly discussed after the fact.

RichieP
04-22-2009, 03:14 PM
The chances we all have to take.

Why?

Flood the monies into tracks like Mnr,Haw and Keeneland. They do things right and are RECEPTIVE to H.A.N.A. even going as far as to host winner circle gatherings (Kee) and the track announcer giving you shouts (Mnr). Pick the biggest garbage race at one of these tracks and take Cj's dad idea and plow the sh** out of one horse say to show. You KNOW you are gonna get coverage. Why? Because you already HAVE. You have successful model established at THESE venues.

Screw these garbage tracks that rape players. They will fast go under with the tightening economic conditions. Wanna hurt them? Ignore them and they go under from their own greed. To pick a track like Tup and then not even focus on a specific wager is feeding money to dogs. Look at the nonsense that went on months back when myself and a couple of others emailed the powers that be there(Tup) and got a bunch of bull**** for replies.

All due respect a very bad choice from this corner and one which in all honesty seems to be haphazardly thrown together just to say "something was done this week".

See you the following week and a big THANK YOU for everything you are all working for on our behalf :ThmbUp:

CBedo
04-22-2009, 03:41 PM
The chances we all have to take. Each day we get more and more members and we are moving forward. We have to try things and measure them. If things falter we will rejig, and if they continue to prosper we will do more of what we are doing. We get tons of responses about the days and we measure everything based on those. So we hope we come to a good conclusion at the end of each week.
From a business & marketing (of HANA) standpoint, my opinion (it's not worth much), is that this strategy is too risky. If you were investing in a business and when you asked the CEO about his strategy, he said the same thing you said above, how would you feel about your investment?

I could understand it somewhat if we were doing this on "the down-low," keeping it quiet, but we have announced to the world that HANA is coming, and although we might understand what the point is, it's clear that the powers that be, and the rest of the racing un-educated public are not as sophisticated in their thinking. Assuming that everyone else understands what we're doing is a mistake. From a marketing standoint, "faltering" in the public eye could permanently damage future efforts.

DeanT
04-22-2009, 04:11 PM
From a business & marketing (of HANA) standpoint, my opinion (it's not worth much), is that this strategy is too risky. If you were investing in a business and when you asked the CEO about his strategy, he said the same thing you said above, how would you feel about your investment?


We aint CEO's and this is not a corporation, although working 20+ hours a week it sure feels like it ;)

We discuss all of these things at meetings. We receive 100 emails a week that need answering with many criticisms and concerns like this. We do our best to answer them all.

We will talk about all of this tonight at the weekly meeting and see what a next move is.

cj
04-22-2009, 04:29 PM
One thing to keep in mind is while TuP has high rakes, they also make the signal available to those willing to rebate, and the rebates are quite generous.

NatteringNeighBob
04-22-2009, 05:23 PM
One thing to keep in mind is while TuP has high rakes, they also make the signal available to those willing to rebate, and the rebates are quite generous.

Another thing to keep in mind is that wagering through an ADW (in order to get those generous rebates) is now a FELONY for Arizona residents. This ridiculous law is yet another reason not to support any part of the Arizona racing industry.

Further details here:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39779&page=2&pp=15&highlight=Arizona

Cangamble
04-22-2009, 05:42 PM
Another thing to keep in mind is that wagering through an ADW (in order to get those generous rebates) is now a FELONY for Arizona residents. This ridiculous law is yet another reason not to support any part of the Arizona racing industry.

Further details here:
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39779&page=2&pp=15&highlight=Arizona
I highly doubt Turf Paradise supports the state laws. That being said, this is another reason we selected Turf Paradise. We want to bring light to this issue.

RichieP
04-22-2009, 06:31 PM
One thing to keep in mind is while TuP has high rakes, they also make the signal available to those willing to rebate,

Last time I checked there are 11 states plus the District of Columbia that can NOT bet through a rebate shop such as PTC. That is more than a fifth of the country shut out from that "plus" Cj. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

Keep pounding the tracks that CARE about what is being done here. Whatever happened to "incremental gains or moves"??

Newsflash - HANA "aint got it like that" YET.

500 strong ain't 5000 or 50000 strong and 30 mil annual handle doesn't even equal 3 DAYS of wagers at NYRA.

PATIENCE gentlemen. PATIENCE
TUP is a C- track by HANA standards. **** em

Where does that leave all the other A's and B's designated by HANA feeling right about now?

What happened to incremental gains or moves? Listen to BB's words
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4OXrmxDp44&amp;feature=quicklist
"Rock me baby. Rock me SLOW"

PS - someone IS going to pack up this thread and send to those caring execs over at Tup right? ;) Tell em Richie P said to enjoy their 20% of nothing. Buy a match or 2 day old sock with it

NatteringNeighBob
04-22-2009, 06:31 PM
I highly doubt Turf Paradise supports the state laws. That being said, this is another reason we selected Turf Paradise. We want to bring light to this issue.

This quote from a Bloodhorse article on The Arizona law indicates that Turf Paradise did infact support the legislation:

"Many representatives of the Arizona horse racing industry offered their support for HB2694 during a Feb. 15 state Committee on Water and Agriculture meeting. Among the supporters were representatives of Turf Paradise, Yavapai Downs, the Yavapai Downs County Fair Association, the Arizona Horsemenís Benevolent and Protective Association, and the Arizona Thoroughbred Breeders Association."

Full article here: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/40980/arizona-law-makes-taking-account-bets-a-felony?id=40980

While I agree that this has definetly brought these issues to light, I just don't think that increasing the handle at a track with as many negatives as Tup is a good idea.

rrbauer
04-22-2009, 06:44 PM
I find it very disappointing that anyone at HANA would even suggest betting at Turf Paradise let alone doing it. :ThmbDown:

BUD
04-22-2009, 06:55 PM
For the little I know--I must agree with Rich B-But I am A Twin Spire Guy so I wont be in the Pool Party anyway-So Knock Yourself out.

CBedo
04-22-2009, 07:08 PM
We aint CEO's and this is not a corporation
I thought the purpose of HANA was to help horseplayers "invest" in a brighter future for horse players and the whole industry? How does not running it as a not for profit business benefit anyone?

Oh well.

cj
04-22-2009, 07:19 PM
With TuP supporting that legislation, I tend to agree it isn't the best selection. My only point was the takeout isn't always the only consideration.

Indulto
04-22-2009, 11:09 PM
With some of these plays each week everyone is thinking 'big picture'. We have about 2000-3000 sets of eyeballs on our betting days at this early stage. If we can make a point with some and educate both fans and track people about how and why we do things, we are doing some good.

This is a big picture week this week. We will be speaking of takeout and the Arizona betting law.The big picture is that you're about to compromise one important principle in favor of another, and you're going to do it front of all those eyeballs. :eek:

What a way to follow all that was accomplished at KEE. :ThmbDown: