Freisan Fire...work

[joanied]

:jump: Okie-Dokie, then...this was a really nice work...if you read the story, FF actually re broke on the backside in his gallop out when another horse came along side...this, after his mile work...I really like that...Jones also says the colt hardly blew...I'd say he's one fit horse. Fractions were just what you want and got the mile in about 1:39...very easily.
Jones is planning another work at Churchill about 4/27...I wish there was a video of this mile work...whaaaaaaaaaa:( I wanna see it:)

My, my, my...Freisan Fire, Pioneer, Quality Road...hell, even Chocolate Candy...
hard to pick 'the one' :bang: ...and nooooo, I didn't forget IWR...he's not on my top pix list:faint:

:)

[CincyHorseplayer]

He came up in :36 the last 3/8ths.

I'm glad I have this place to put a check on my opinions because the skeptics have cause me alarm regarding FF breeding and possible distance limitations.

I really like the horse though.He has done everything you want out of a competitor but is just short of best Beyer fame.Those two perspectives make him a dicey proposition.But it might make for a solid bet.

We'll see!

I'm torn between Revenge,Freisan Fire,and Quality road if he's healthy.And I tell ya,this triple crown series is light years better than the rubble pile we had last year(take that Draynay!!).It's going to be fun.I've already called off a half a day on Oaks day so I can drive down to Louisville!Plus after the Derby there is one hell of a pay per view fight brewing between Pacquiao and Hatton.Going to be one hell of a weekend:cool:

[GaryG]

Cincy - If you like FF I sure wouldn't get off him because of his breeding. I am currently between him and IWR with an open mind.

[joanied]

He came up in :36 the last 3/8ths.

I'm glad I have this place to put a check on my opinions because the skeptics have cause me alarm regarding FF breeding and possible distance limitations.

I really like the horse though.He has done everything you want out of a competitor but is just short of best Beyer fame.Those two perspectives make him a dicey proposition.But it might make for a solid bet.

We'll see!

I'm torn between Revenge,Freisan Fire,and Quality road if he's healthy.And I tell ya,this triple crown series is light years better than the rubble pile we had last year(take that Draynay!!).It's going to be fun.I've already called off a half a day on Oaks day so I can drive down to Louisville!Plus after the Derby there is one hell of a pay per view fight brewing between Pacquiao and Hatton.Going to be one hell of a weekend:cool:

Yes indeedy...I was elated reading about the work...and I know I'm gonna get murdered for this...but to hell with the Beyer:eek:

yep...this year has been a ton of fun...we have so many really good ones...a few that could become 'great'.....if allowed the opportunity to go for it... these colts do put last years in the ol' sh***er:)

You're a lucky SOB...going to be there...I think you'll see some greatness in the Oaks...buy a ticket on Rachel A....and save it!!

and I'll second that motion..."take that, Draynay":lol: Wonder what bunch of folks he's driving crazy now;)

OH...hope that fight turns out good for you...I stopped watching boxing when Sugar Ray quit boxing...best fights I ever saw all were Ali fights...I am dating myself :)

[CincyHorseplayer]

Cincy - If you like FF I sure wouldn't get off him because of his breeding. I am currently between him and IWR with an open mind.

Oh believe me Gary I won't get off him if I get the odds.I think my greatest strength is stubborness.I've always trusted my own opinion even when it went against the grain of my mentors.I'm not scared to bet shunned horses.I had General Quarters at 14-1 and a horse named Luna Jena at Tampa Bay at 39-1.Some people are scared by big odds.I'm only scared by big women!!

[matthewsiv]

This horse is bred to get the Derby distance.

[joanied]

This horse is bred to get the Derby distance.

:ThmbUp: I was going to say the same thing...fact is, FF has more than enough stamina influence in his pedigree.
I've got him with Pioneer as my top two (at least for the moment;) )...and doubt I'll get off either of them.

[toussaud]

:ThmbUp: I was going to say the same thing...fact is, FF has more than enough stamina influence in his pedigree.
I've got him with Pioneer as my top two (at least for the moment;) )...and doubt I'll get off either of them.
I was ranking the top 5 horses I think for the distance and I would go

1. quality road
2. i want revenge
3. regal ransom
4. choclate candy
5. mr hot stuff

[joanied]

I was ranking the top 5 horses I think for the distance and I would go

1. quality road
2. i want revenge
3. regal ransom
4. choclate candy
5. mr hot stuff

Good list...but I'd have to add FF to it:)

[toussaud]

Good list...but I'd have to add FF to it:)

I dont' think he's fast enough. I think you have to have a good blend of not only stanima but also speed to win the derby.
I would not be shocked to see him win the belmont (FF)

[joanied]

I dont' think he's fast enough. I think you have to have a good blend of not only stanima but also speed to win the derby.
I would not be shocked to see him win the belmont (FF)

Hmmmm...I don't know about that...I think he's fast enough...especially for this Derby because of the lack of early speed...I see him laying just behind the first tier of horses... needless to say, post postition is going to have a say in all this...
how 'bout this scenario...Derby, Preakness, then the Belmont:eek: :)

[Bettowin]

How fast does FF need to be? He can run the first half in either 45 or 48 depending on the race and what is asked of him. I also see him laying 5th or 6th in the first 3/4 and moving in front of the closers and being right there at the top of the lane.

[toussaud]

How fast does FF need to be? He can run the first half in either 45 or 48 depending on the race and what is asked of him. I also see him laying 5th or 6th in the first 3/4 and moving in front of the closers and being right there at the top of the lane.

he has ran 45 and 48 seconds against inferior compitition and his best race of his life has come in the slop which could be looked at as a freak effort, and I dont' think THAT effort would win him the derby and to make matters worse, it wasn't even the best effort of the day (rachael alexandra won in about .09 seconds slower but was geared down to the fullest doing it).

I don't think Rachael Alexndra could win the derby this year althoughI think she's scary good. and I don'tt hink Fresien can beat rachael alexandra.

the thing he has going for him more than anything if you ask me, is that he is the most improved horse by far since janurary and we would not have seen him for 7 weeks on may 2nd. if he grows up more he can win it.

[Sundown]

and I dont' think THAT effort would win him the derby and to make matters worse,

I respect what you're saying but it wasn't the Derby, think that's why they're called preps. A lot of people make similar comments and I get it but always think it sounds weird.

[toussaud]

I respect what you're saying but it wasn't the Derby, think that's why they're called preps. A lot of people make similar comments and I get it but always think it sounds weird.


like i said, it will be 7 weeks utnil his race. he has that going for him i fhe can grow up.

[Bettowin]

he has ran 45 and 48 seconds against inferior compitition and his best race of his life has come in the slop which could be looked at as a freak effort, and I dont' think THAT effort would win him the derby and to make matters worse, it wasn't even the best effort of the day (rachael alexandra won in about .09 seconds slower but was geared down to the fullest doing it).

I don't think Rachael Alexndra could win the derby this year althoughI think she's scary good. and I don'tt hink Fresien can beat rachael alexandra.

the thing he has going for him more than anything if you ask me, is that he is the most improved horse by far since janurary and we would not have seen him for 7 weeks on may 2nd. if he grows up more he can win it.


So there you go. Tell me all the reasons why FF won't win the Derby but at the end give yourself an out:) All I am saying is he has the style to be very near the front when it matters and doesn't need to improve all that much from his last race to be the winner. He hasn't regressed this year yet and with 7 weeks of working up to the Derby I think he will improve even more.
This is why they run the race.

[toussaud]

huh? I"m really just trying to civil. I never will say a horse has no chance but i'll be shocked if he wins. he just isnt' fast enough.

[Sundown]

Remember at the beginning of the year when there wasn't much action about the KD? I'm lovin the discussion now some good points being made all around.

[Bettowin]

huh? I"m really just trying to civil. I never will say a horse has no chance but i'll be shocked if he wins. he just isnt' fast enough.


Guess I just don't understand what you mean by not fast enough. Less than two weeks to find out:)

[Run Nicholas Run]

Larry Jones has a winner and two seconds in
the last 3 major cd races for 3yo's. :eek:

FIRE will be there to burn the doubters.

[WinterTriangle]

I'm a big FF fan. Haven't changed my mind on this since LD. We don't know if he's "fast enough" yet because we haven't seen him in 7 weeks. Papa's 101 Beyer in a 9 furlong race is pretty nice; Mr. Hot Stuff is coming into his own right now, and watch out when a Tiznow does that.

But until I see the finalized field, and post positions, I can't even think about constructing a superfecta. If Regal Ransom doesn't run, etc. because who is and isn't running, and from where, will affect the pace.:confused:

[Smarty Cide]

I was ranking the top 5 horses I think for the distance and I would go

1. quality road
2. i want revenge
3. regal ransom
4. choclate candy
5. mr hot stuff



cant forget Pioneerof The Nile

[toussaud]

cant forget Pioneerof The Nile

believe it or not, and this isn't the popular theory but I don't know if he gets the distance. his dam was a (good) sprinter,his half brother forefathers was a miler and his other half sister broke her maiden ad got her only win at a mile and she was by old treiste.

you think of empire maker you thnk of the belmont winner but i haven't seen one of his foals yet take a liking to a classic distance. they seem to be 8-9F type horses which isn't bad, buit it's not a classic distance. even more concerning than that, is that the vast majority of them if not all of them perfer turf or all weather.

[joanied]

I'm a big FF fan. Haven't changed my mind on this since LD. We don't know if he's "fast enough" yet because we haven't seen him in 7 weeks. Papa's 101 Beyer in a 9 furlong race is pretty nice; Mr. Hot Stuff is coming into his own right now, and watch out when a Tiznow does that.

But until I see the finalized field, and post positions, I can't even think about constructing a superfecta. If Regal Ransom doesn't run, etc. because who is and isn't running, and from where, will affect the pace.:confused:


me too...WT, ya saved me some typing!!!!
:)

[FormalGold1]

Rationalization for Friesan Fire :

1. Quality Road misses a work due to another quarter crack.

2. I Want Revenge peaked in the Gotham.

3. Dunkirk has an insufficient foundation.

4. Pioneer of the Nile lack of real dirt experience.

Larry Jones knows how to crank a horse for the Derby. Witness Eight Belles and Hard Spun. Friesan Fire’s speed figures have improved each race in 2009. Using Brisnet data , if you add E1 with LP and divide by 2 ( sustained pace) :

1. I Want Revenge ….. 102.5 [ Gotham]

2. Friesan Fire ………. 99.5 [ Risen Star]

3. Quality Road ………. 98 [ Fountain of Youth ]

4. Dunkirk ………………. 98 [ GP allowance]



Friesan Fire at a price !

[joanied]

FormalGold1 :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

One more week:jump: and all the 'Sunday morning quarterbacking' will begin:D

[thruncy]

Remember at the beginning of the year when there wasn't much action about the KD? I'm lovin the discussion now some good points being made all around.Great to hear Derby talk again. One big problem....Things now ain't what they was. Down to melodramatic,schmaltzy limey track announcer and the noticeably shorter fields.This has the mark of Duch all over it. Are they charging $1.37 for coffee with cheapass powdered cream yet? How about wager surcharges on OTB bets? Are they still soliciting for chief party officers? This money grubbing, cynical scumbag cares not a twit about today's racing fans. He thinks he will revolutionize the sport by alienating all the current fans and replacing them with a new, ignorant generation....Remember, that is exactly what he told Marty Magee of DRF when he shut down AP in '89. "I DO NOT care about this generation of racing fans."...The man turned Arlington Park into a kiddy park, Friday night, drunken circus. I hope Kentucky people get wise to this fast and oomph this guy out.

[GaryG]

1. Dunkirk
2. I Want Revenge
3. Friesan Fire
4. Pioneerof The Nile
5. Desert Party

[Irish Boy]

Great to hear Derby talk again. One big problem....Things now ain't what they was. Down to melodramatic,schmaltzy limey track announcer and the noticeably shorter fields.This has the mark of Duch all over it. Are they charging $1.37 for coffee with cheapass powdered cream yet? How about wager surcharges on OTB bets? Are they still soliciting for chief party officers? This money grubbing, cynical scumbag cares not a twit about today's racing fans. He thinks he will revolutionize the sport by alienating all the current fans and replacing them with a new, ignorant generation....Remember, that is exactly what he told Marty Magee of DRF when he shut down AP in '89. "I DO NOT care about this generation of racing fans."...The man turned Arlington Park into a kiddy park, Friday night, drunken circus. I hope Kentucky people get wise to this fast and oomph this guy out.

If every track did as much to appeal to a clientele outside of the degenerate, chain-smoking 50+ year old male demographic, horse racing might be in a bit better shape. Arlington Park is one of the few venues in the country where you actually see families, young people, and serious horseplayers on the weekends.

Oh, and:

limey track announcer

a new, ignorant generation

Pot, meet kettle.

[Rackon]

Thank you Irish Boy, wish I'd said that! ;)

[ezgoerbaby79]

he has ran 45 and 48 seconds against inferior compitition

What has IWR beat? What has QR beat? At least FF beat a horse that came back to win a major prep race. I'd say the Beyers are suspect this year especially with all the "adjusting" of figures that went on. I think Friesan Fire is a bit better than you give him credit for. He seems to me like a horse that does what is asked of him (pushbutton), and you couldn't ask for a better kind in the Derby. I think he will be just off the pace and will set up for him nicely....Now, with that said, I have the right to change my mind 100x before Saturday.

[Relwob Owner]

huh? I"m really just trying to civil. I never will say a horse has no chance but i'll be shocked if he wins. he just isnt' fast enough.


Your "fast enough" argument honestly sounds like you just read a handicapping book and are trying to apply a theory.... You seem to have a lot of knowledge and I mean no offense but that is how it sounds..... look at the splits in each of his races and where FF is placed in each....Five graded races, an allowance and a MSW, so class isnt an issue and if you look at each start, he is well placed and I dont think he has been more than four lengths off in his life....I can understand if you dont like him but saying he isnt fast enough just isnt accurate...his style is actually perfect for the Derby where he can lead just off the first bunch and make a move....

[magwell]

I like his trainer, I like his breeding, I like his style, but dont like what I seen of him on the track this morning he looked very stiff going off. They have 6 days to correct what ever it is thats bothering him.

[joanied]

I like his trainer, I like his breeding, I like his style, but dont like what I seen of him on the track this morning he looked very stiff going off. They have 6 days to correct what ever it is thats bothering him.

WHAT:eek: You ARE talking about FF here...oh,oh,oh...I don't wanna hear that...how'd he look during his gallop and coming back? How about his walk?
magwell...any info you can provide on him, I would appreciate. FF & Pioneer are my top two....oh,woe is me:faint:

[magwell]

They only showed him jogging, did not show anything else,Jones was on him,thats all I seen but it wasnt what you want to see a week out from the Derby,we will see more when he works this week.

[Robert Fischer]

The Racing Gods were angered at all the fans who complained about the 2008 season, after the great Big Brown stormed through the competition...

They split the powers of Big Brown into 3 horses :rolleyes:

His speedy hooves went to Quality Road

His relentless one paced way of going to I Want Revenge

His classic distance stamina to Friesan Fire


Each only excelling in his special quality, and will be revealed to all on Derby Day :eek:

[joanied]

They only showed him jogging, did not show anything else,Jones was on him,thats all I seen but it wasnt what you want to see a week out from the Derby,we will see more when he works this week.

OK...so now I assume that you saw this on TV?? Maybe it's nothing...some horses have funny ways of going, and maybe his jog isn't a pretty one....the first time I saw Zenyatta in a post parade it scared me because she has a very funny way of going...
I appreciate your reply, magwell...I have my TV set to record all the works via the HRTV show 'Pursiut of the Crown'...so I expect to see FF work this week...but still, I am now a bit concerned:faint: