The End is Near.............

[point given]

Magna to auction racetracks next week. Up for sale are Santa Anita and the MD tracks et al. No mention of halsey Minor who was interested and no mention of gulfstream which Minor said he wasnot interested in. Unfortunatley a sub is need for full article

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090417-710001.html

[joanied]

Magna to auction racetracks next week. Up for sale are Santa Anita and the MD tracks et al. No mention of halsey Minor who was interested and no mention of gulfstream which Minor said he wasnot interested in. Unfortunatley a sub is need for full article

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090417-710001.html

This is scary...I cannot imagine what the outcome might be...not for Frank...but for us...the fans, handicappers, track people...geeze.

Stupid Stronach...I knew that man had bitten off way more than he could chew...how can you make so many mistakes...my,my,my:bang:

[CincyHorseplayer]

If Pimlico ceases to exist I think it says a lot about this country's values.Shopping outweighs tradition.

[Doc]

If Pimlico ceases to exist I think it says a lot about this country's values.Shopping outweighs tradition.

What I really think it says is that there are not enough people who give a damn about racing anymore.

[Relwob Owner]

What I really think it says is that there are not enough people who give a damn about racing anymore.

Yep....also says that someone like Stronach might be brilliant in one business venture and then bring their ego over to horse racing and fail miserably....that is why that Halsey Minor guy scares the crap out of me....

[toussaud]

there are too many mid atlantic tracks. I have no problem seeing pimlico go away. I watch HRTV all day every day just about, and all I see are 2,500 claimers at pimlico every day then they get the spotlight for the 1 million dollar preakness, then the next day (if not the next race) it's back to 2,500 dollar claimers. they really don't bring anything to the table besdies being the red headed stepchild of the triple crown.

[NJ Stinks]

Stronach was burned by anti-gambling factions in almost every state he invested in. And in one exception where he finally succeeded (at Gulfstream), everybody else down there got it too.

I think Stronach did a lot of good things. One biggie was breaking up TVG's monopoly. Let's face it - TVG was and is a middle man taking money out of the pie. Racing should be able to operate it's own racing channel and avoid the middle man. HRTV does a good job in that role. Other great things include Gulfstream's and Laurel's new turf courses. Top class all the way. So is Palm Meadows from everything I've heard.

[cj]

Well, to be fair, I'm pretty certain Pimlico doesn't card $2,500 claiming races.

[toussaud]

Well, to be fair, I'm pretty certain Pimlico doesn't card $2,500 claiming races.
yeah, but you get the point. too many tracks up there and too little pie to support all of them.

this is actually GOOD for horse racing. it can't support all of this. the weak die. the strong survive.

[andymays]

yeah, but you get the point. too many tracks up there and too little pie to support all of them.

this is actually GOOD for horse racing. it can't support all of this. the weak die. the strong survive.


Absolutely!!!!! Racing needs to downsize!

[Shemp Howard]

Well, to be fair, I'm pretty certain Pimlico doesn't card $2,500 claiming races.


Since most of the platers running at Pim wind up earning less than half of what it costs to keep them running, a value of $2,500 is an inflated price

[toussaud]

Pimlico, Laurel, Finger Lakes , Presque Isle, Philidelphia Park and Penn National all need to just go away. Far Far away. And Suffolk Downs.

Delaware Park, Mountineer, Charles Town, and one more day time track are more than enough for the mid atlantic. I bet alot of money and I haven't made a bet in any of those above tracks in a very long time.

[Relwob Owner]

Stronach was burned by anti-gambling factions in almost every state he invested in. And in one exception where he finally succeeded (at Gulfstream), everybody else down there got it too.

I think Stronach did a lot of good things. One biggie was breaking up TVG's monopoly. Let's face it - TVG was and is a middle man taking money out of the pie. Racing should be able to operate it's own racing channel and avoid the middle man. HRTV does a good job in that role. Other great things include Gulfstream's and Laurel's new turf courses. Top class all the way. So is Palm Meadows from everything I've heard.



Good points but from a business perspective, dont you think he totally underestimated the overall impact of on-line wagering and the fact that most people bet from home? He approved massive track renovations that may have been good for racing overall but made little business sense at all....


Question....how is TVG different from HRTV/ExpressBet and their relationship? also, arent all ADW's pretty much middlemen, just like TVG? And doesnt TVG need betting in order to sustain their network? Isnt a place like YouBet even more of a "middleman" because they dont have a TV network to support?


I think you have hit on one of the biggest whiffs in horse racing....with the advent of on line racing, each track should have had a way to bet on line and cut out the middleman...you would think each track would come up with a way of doing business directly with the bettors but I guess it is logistically impossible at this point....

[toussaud]

Good points but from a business perspective, dont you think he totally underestimated the overall impact of on-line wagering and the fact that most people bet from home? He approved massive track renovations that may have been good for racing overall but made little business sense at all....


Question....how is TVG different from HRTV/ExpressBet and their relationship? also, arent all ADW's pretty much middlemen, just like TVG? And doesnt TVG need betting in order to sustain their network? Isnt a place like YouBet even more of a "middleman" because they dont have a TV network to support?


I think you have hit on one of the biggest whiffs in horse racing....with the advent of on line racing, each track should have had a way to bet on line and cut out the middleman...you would think each track would come up with a way of doing business directly with the bettors but I guess it is logistically impossible at this point....


stronach put his stock into "slots". he should have put his stock into online wagering.


I LOVE HRTV and I am forever thankful for him starting that channel.

the difference between TVG and HRTV and why HRTV is tons better, is becausle TVG really did have a monopoly, not in just the sense that they were the only kid in town, but TVG had exclusive rights with alot of tracks like the NYRA utnil HRTV came along and it became economicly stupidity to have exclusvitivy with TVG.

at the end of the day magna entertainment failed becuase it's business model could be literalry summed up in 1 word.

slots.


it didnt' work. they had no real vision for horse racing itself besides making everyone of them a racino. once that was out the window they fail down.

[Relwob Owner]

stronach put his stock into "slots". he should have put his stock into online wagering.


I LOVE HRTV and I am forever thankful for him starting that channel.

the difference between TVG and HRTV and why HRTV is tons better, is becausle TVG really did have a monopoly, not in just the sense that they were the only kid in town, but TVG had exclusive rights with alot of tracks like the NYRA utnil HRTV came along and it became economicly stupidity to have exclusvitivy with TVG.

at the end of the day magna entertainment failed becuase it's business model could be literalry summed up in 1 word.

slots.


it didnt' work. they had no real vision for horse racing itself besides making everyone of them a racino. once that was out the window they fail down.

Good points....I have tried HRTV and just cant do it...I just find it cheesy and forced...I do like Pincay's kid but the other guys come off as kind of smug and annoying......I think I like TVG so much because i found them first and tend to ignore some of the annoying points and liking them led me not to like HRTV as much...one thing you never have to worry about is hearing Nick Hines open his mouth:)

[toussaud]

well I like both actually, I like TVG's coverage of overseas races like the JRA and royal ascot. I like how they do their coverage of keeneland and del mar and I love frida night racing at hollywod park. but I dont' care for their handicappers. their entire show is revolved around you playing exotic wagers.

That I don't like. The difference between the two stations is this. say you are prevewing say the.... Met Mile. HRTV is going to preview the race and show you who's who, maybe interview the trainer and the owner of the favoriate, someone might hgive his opinions and that's that. On TVG the met mile isnothing more than a key race in a pick 4. That I don't particually care for.

I don't care for Kurt Hoover.. I think he overestimates his worth and he is too smug for my liking but the rest I partiucally like. Jon White is an asset to the sport. I don't care for Gary stevens either but he's never on anymore so it doesn't matter. the others have quirks that I dn't care for but I still like them. I don't like how JOanne jones somehow thinks every race is just a half mile race and how she classifes a horse as a "44 and 4 type" horse. WTF is that supposed to mean? it's a 10 fulrong race joanne!

[Relwob Owner]

well I like both actually, I like TVG's coverage of overseas races like the JRA and royal ascot. I like how they do their coverage of keeneland and del mar and I love frida night racing at hollywod park. but I dont' care for their handicappers. their entire show is revolved around you playing exotic wagers.

That I don't like. The difference between the two stations is this. say you are prevewing say the.... Met Mile. HRTV is going to preview the race and show you who's who, maybe interview the trainer and the owner of the favoriate, someone might hgive his opinions and that's that. On TVG the met mile isnothing more than a key race in a pick 4. That I don't particually care for.

I don't care for Kurt Hoover.. I think he overestimates his worth and he is too smug for my liking but the rest I partiucally like. Jon White is an asset to the sport. I don't care for Gary stevens either but he's never on anymore so it doesn't matter. the others have quirks that I dn't care for but I still like them. I don't like how JOanne jones somehow thinks every race is just a half mile race and how she classifes a horse as a "44 and 4 type" horse. WTF is that supposed to mean? it's a 10 fulrong race joanne!



Good points....frustrating because I get Directv and they only have TVG so I only get HRTV at amy dad's place and havent given thema true shot really...have to stick with Directv cause of football....funny you mentioned TVG and their exotic pushing-man, are they good at it-I didnt realize how much they dictated my wagering til I looked at last year and how much I pissed away playing Pick 4"s just cause they were...ugh

[toussaud]

a real horse racing fan should have dish network. IN arkansas we get comcast and we now have hRTV so I get the best of both words, most of the tracks with HRTV AND football, but before now I had Dish network. I am a bigger horse racing fan than football fan, I can live without NFL sunday ticket.

man I don't know if you remember what was it.. 2year ago and Hollywood park a ctually had a 3.5 million dollar carry over. it was like hte perfect storm.

1. it carried over for like a week and the da it hit 3.5 million dollars was a sunday. so they had 3 days to do nothing but push pick 6 tickets.

2. it was the 4th of july

literarly... every show was about the pick 6. everyone had a ticket, even les that does the quarters show at night had a damn ticket. the pool hit 10 and a half million dollars.

TVG is very good at what they do. push exotics. with that said, I've actually SEEN guys at HRTV hit. Jon White hit the magna pick 5 a couple of weeks back for 2 grand with like a 30 dollar ticket. he hit a 25k pick 6 as well about 2 years ago.

[Relwob Owner]

a real horse racing fan should have dish network. IN arkansas we get comcast and we now have hRTV so I get the best of both words, most of the tracks with HRTV AND football, but before now I had Dish network. I am a bigger horse racing fan than football fan, I can live without NFL sunday ticket.

man I don't know if you remember what was it.. 2year ago and Hollywood park a ctually had a 3.5 million dollar carry over. it was like hte perfect storm.

1. it carried over for like a week and the da it hit 3.5 million dollars was a sunday. so they had 3 days to do nothing but push pick 6 tickets.

2. it was the 4th of july

literarly... every show was about the pick 6. everyone had a ticket, even les that does the quarters show at night had a damn ticket. the pool hit 10 and a half million dollars.

TVG is very good at what they do. push exotics. with that said, I've actually SEEN guys at HRTV hit. Jon White hit the magna pick 5 a couple of weeks back for 2 grand with like a 30 dollar ticket. he hit a 25k pick 6 as well about 2 years ago.

I would add Dish but I already have 7(not kidding) Directv recievers and if I get Dish put in, I am afraid someone will mess up and my house may blow up.....I have to have Directv cause I am a Browns fan in VA and need to see the games....a much bigger horse racing fan overall....

I definitely remember that weekend....all those things and the fact that they get giddy around the 4th(insert Nick Hines here) and it was tough to take...their limits on the announcer tickets make it silly because they rarely get past the first few legs anyways...

[NJ Stinks]

When Jon White speaks, I listen. The man knows his stuff. :ThmbUp:

TVG is just too much selling like you said, Toussaud. If it's not a Pick 4 or a Pick 6, it's the Blue Grass or Lexington being the most significant Derby prep in the world. I think they would sell us the Brooklyn Bridge if they thought they could.

Having said that, I like most of TVG's staff in those rare moments when they are not selling. But usually I'm watching HRTV - especially if I'm betting - because they have by far the best lineup of racetracks overall and don't treat me like a moron.

Fortunately, I do have the Dish so I switch from HRTV to TVG when the horses near the gate if TVG has a race I want to see.

[toussaud]

back to the point of pimlico. How can pimlico not run the pimlico special? it's the pimlico special for crying out loud. a freaking grade 1 race that they just threw by the wayside, and not just any grade 1 race, a pretty significant one you know you have grade 1 races and GRADE 1 RACES, and that is defrinatly a GRADE 1 RACE. the black eyed susan is 100k. that's a maiden race in dubai.

pimlico honestly, cannot die fast enough. Sell the rights to the preakness to another track, and kill racing in maryland. they don't support it as is.

the problem is that people dont' look at horse racing like other sporting venues. Maryland built news staidums to keep / entice the ravens to move there and to keep the horrid orioles in baltimore, but the preakness, no, kill it.

maryland ovbiously doesn't want horse racing in its state. Sell the rights to hollywood park. I think the original idea the original premise of the triple crown was not just three three year old races, it was supposed to be at the time, and correct me if i"m wrong becuase i'm pretty young, the crown jewel in the three major horse racing states (at the time, maryland was a big time player in horse racing), so you had th big three year old race in kentucky, the big three year old race in new york and the big three year old race in Maryland.

Well, Maryland is not a player anymore. It went from being the crown jewel of their meet to being THE meet. Sell the rights to hollywood park, and let that be the 2nd leg of the triple crown. also by doing that, you get one leg being on synethics.

[toussaud]

When Jon White speaks, I listen. The man knows his stuff. :ThmbUp:

TVG is just too much selling like you said, Toussaud. If it's not a Pick 4 or a Pick 6, it's the Blue Grass or Lexington being the most significant Derby prep in the world. I think they would sell us the Brooklyn Bridge if they thought they could.

Having said that, I like most of TVG's staff in those rare moments when they are not selling. But usually I'm watching HRTV - especially if I'm betting - because they have by far the best lineup of racetracks overall and don't treat me like a moron.

Fortunately, I do have the Dish so I switch from HRTV to TVG when the horses near the gate if TVG has a race I want to see.


it works out well for me becuase the only tracks I don't get really are Del mar and hollywood park.

and I dont' play neither of them really becuase of the horribly small fields. my normal tracks I play are oaklawn, churchill, arlington, gulfstream, mountineer, etc. I like full fields. oh I WATCH socal racing but I BET otherwise. so it really doesn't bother me that HRTV doesnt get del mar or hollywood park

[NJ Stinks]

it works out well for me becuase the only tracks I don't get really are Del mar and hollywood park.

and I dont' play neither of them really becuase of the horribly small fields. my normal tracks I play are oaklawn, churchill, arlington, gulfstream, mountineer, etc. I like full fields. oh I WATCH socal racing but I BET otherwise. so it really doesn't bother me that HRTV doesnt get del mar or hollywood park

I don't play CA AWS races period. And Golden Gate has such small fields even on turf. Such a shame because GG is great facility with a great turf course.

I skip Keeneland too because of AWS. Although I would try a Pick 3 or Pick 4 with 2 turf races amongst the group but that seems to be impossible to find at Keeneland nowadays too. I play mostly NY, Maryland, Oaklawn, FG, Florida, and my home track - Philly Park. You may not believe it but slot money is definitely improving the quality of racing at Philly. You can see it when they ship. And the fields at Philly are increasing too. Unfortunately, some of Philly's takeout still makes certain bets unplayable there.

[toussaud]

I don't play CA AWS races period. And Golden Gate has such small fields even on turf. Such a shame because GG is great facility with a great turf course.

I skip Keeneland too because of AWS. Although I would try a Pick 3 or Pick 4 with 2 turf races amongst the group but that seems to be impossible to find at Keeneland nowadays too. I play mostly NY, Maryland, Oaklawn, FG, Florida, and my home track - Philly Park. You may not believe it but slot money is definitely improving the quality of racing at Philly. You can see it when they ship. And the fields at Philly are increasing too. Unfortunately, some of Philly's takeout still makes certain bets unplayable there.

after a month at a track I can play any t I rack once all the horses have gotten their race in, so that's not a concern to me, but there just isn't any value out west. evrey once in a blue moon. I think in the last month I made 1 wager out west... an allowence race where a horse I really liked went off at like 11 to 1 in a 10 horse field and went 10 wide to finish a hard closing 3rd.

the thing about socal that makes it worse, is they don't have very big purse strcutres.. maiden 32k is the lowest they really go and there are their our horses out there that have no business in a race that high, but they have to be there anyway because the purse strucure is to where they have no choice. so there will be a 15 horse field which in reality is the equivelant to a 5 horse rfield becuase there are only 2 horses that belong on this level.

[toetoe]

I guess this means that Dixon Downs won't be happening ? :D .

Pincay III is just awful. The glibness of a local news anchor combined with eyes deader than my pick-six after two legs. He should be a poker player.

Maybe Steve Byk deserves a shot. I know that past performance (radio) does not guarantee future success (tee-vee), but why not try a flicka the Byk ?

[toussaud]

i like pincay alot. what I really like about him is that he knows what he doesn't know if that makes any sense. he knows he's not a handicapper and doesn't try to pretend he is one unlike ken over a TVG. I have seen ken more than once givfe you a pick 6 ticket then turn around 3 hours later and say "i dont' know why you are listening to me anyway"

same with millie and carylon, they know they aren't handicappers, nor do they try to be. they offer their opinion when they have a strong one, in millie's case when she sees a horse that looks good or she notices something and carylon.. well I dont' know but she doesn't force things down people's throat. they usually put them on with actual handicappers and both/all three will defer to the actual handicapper of the group
contrast to watching TVG is like watching a visual array of colored numbers

[tundral]

I like people who have worked in the field . Trainer jockey ex steward not just poeple with pop last name. Exercise riders are also very knowledge able. So lets get rid of ken , laffit , christina just my two cents.

[proximity]

the weak die. the strong survive.

actually the "weak" did die. you know the three tracks you actually bet: ct, del, and mnr. these tracks were ONLY revived by slot machines and proactive governments.

pimlico has been open since 1870...... 1870. think about that!! 140 years of racing (the majority of that not known for $2500 claimers) killed by politics and frank s.

but don't worry, when only even a handful of people on a racing board even care about this..... you'll soon get your wish.... indeed the end most likely is near.

[toussaud]

actually the "weak" did die. you know the three tracks you actually bet: ct, del, and mnr. these tracks were ONLY revived by slot machines and proactive governments.

pimlico has been open since 1870...... 1870. think about that!! 140 years of racing (the majority of that not known for $2500 claimers) killed by politics and frank s.

but don't worry, when only even a handful of people on a racing board even care about this..... you'll soon get your wish.... indeed the end most likely is near.


the people of maryland do not care enough about their industry that has been around since 1870 enough to pass slots. It is what it is.. in the mid atlantic, you can't compete without slots. they dont' have it so yes, the strong survive and the weak die. in this case, pimlico is made weak by it's non caring partrons.

[proximity]

the people of maryland do not care enough about their industry that has been around since 1870 enough to pass slots. It is what it is.. in the mid atlantic, you can't compete without slots. they dont' have it so yes, the strong survive and the weak die. in this case, pimlico is made weak by it's non caring partrons.

actually slots did recently "pass" (a hail mary perhaps) but frank s dropped the ball!! and citizens of pa, wv, and del caring about the racing industry more than marylanders isn't why slots passed in those states....

[toussaud]

that is not the point. the ponit is for it to survive in maryland it HAD to pass and they dropped the ball.

the citizens of maryland did not do what was necessary to keep racing alive in maryland at a competitive level.

if for some reason the baltimore ravens had to have slots to stay in maryland, slots would have been passed yesterday

[cj's dad]

that is not the point. the ponit is for it to survive in maryland it HAD to pass and they dropped the ball.

the citizens of maryland did not do what was necessary to keep racing alive in maryland at a competitive level.

if for some reason the baltimore ravens had to have slots to stay in maryland, slots would have been passed yesterday


A crash course in Md. politics 101 -

2 election cycles back Md. elected Bob Ehrlich as governor and one of his key pledges was to bring slots to Md. in order to compete with Del. and WVa.
The legislature, being heavily Dem. did not want to see a slots bill enacted for fear of Ehrlich keeping his campaign promise and bringing $$$ into the state. The Dems played hard ball and thwarted every effort to bring a slots bill to the floor- RESULT - no slots !!

Next election cycle we have a dem. gonernor and all of a sudden slots are being discussed- too little too late.

I take from your posts that you do not live here; before posting about something of which you know little, it would prudent to do some research.

Also, Laurel Park is a very nice facility and well attended on the week-end. Tha anchor around Md horse racing is Pimlico.

[toussaud]

A crash course in Md. politics 101 -

2 election cycles back Md. elected Bob Ehrlich as governor and one of his key pledges was to bring slots to Md. in order to compete with Del. and WVa.
The legislature, being heavily Dem. did not want to see a slots bill enacted for fear of Ehrlich keeping his campaign promise and bringing $$$ into the state. The Dems played hard ball and thwarted every effort to bring a slots bill to the floor- RESULT - no slots !!

Next election cycle we have a dem. gonernor and all of a sudden slots are being discussed- too little too late.

I take from your posts that you do not live here; before posting about something of which you know little, it would prudent to do some research.

Also, Laurel Park is a very nice facility and well attended on the week-end. Tha anchor around Md horse racing is Pimlico.


like I said. No one is questioning wHY they didn't get passed. they didnt' get passed and they needed to get passed.

the people of maryland let politcs get in the way of not being able to let pimlico and laurel play on a level playing field. The WHY is not the point.

[cj's dad]

like I said. No one is questioning wHY they didn't get passed. they didnt' get passed and they needed to get passed.

the people of maryland let politcs get in the way of not being able to let pimlico and laurel play on a level playing field. The WHY is not the point.

Once again let me clarify for you since I am a people of Maryland; we elected a governor who promised to deliver slots. Thats all we can do. The POLITICIANS in Annapolis who are 3-1 democrat kept slots off the table; case closed.

[toussaud]

Once again let me clarify for you since I am a people of Maryland; we elected a governor who promised to deliver slots. Thats all we can do. The POLITICIANS in Annapolis who are 3-1 democrat kept slots off the table; case closed.


so at the end of the day slots didn't get passed and they needed to get passed correct?

[cj's dad]

so at the end of the day slots didn't get passed and they needed to get passed correct?

For Md. racing to have a chance of survival as currently organized, yes.

If Md. were to consolidate all of their resources into Laurel Park which would streamline their ops, i.e. overhead, they would have a chance to compete and survive. But Stronach, his peeps and Md. pols are idiots and that is the reason Md. racing will go down the tubes.

I have often posted that I don't care, but now that this is coming to fruition, I am starting to realize that not going to Laurel Park on a beautiful Saturday afternoon in May-June or July will be sorely missed; and all because of bulls--t politics and greedy little men.

[foregoforever]

A crash course in Md. politics 101 -


I guess DeFrancis isn't covered until the 102 course. :)

I've watched this for years from the next state south, and I'm still seriously conflicted about it. I don't want slots in Virginia, so I can understand those in Maryland who don't. I also understand why rational people wonder why the horseracing industry deserves the subsidy. And I absolutely agree with those who find the DeFrancis business unacceptable.

The best thing for the industry would be for Maryland to go to Federal Court contesting the cross-subsidies being given in neighboring states. When other countries do that stuff, we scream bloody murder. I don't really see the difference.

If slots were eliminated from horseracing nationwide, undoubtedly some tracks would end up closing, and some people would lose their livelihood. That's unfortunate, but the demand for horseracing is what it is. There's too much racing, too many horses being bred, and too many unwanted horses being sent to slaughter.

The difference would be that the tracks that survived would do so because the customers selected them as the best through their wagering choices, rather than because they got the best deal from some state bureaucrats in allocating slots funds.

I also like Laurel. Magna has made mistakes, and Laurel isn't the most modern facility around, but the turf course is excellent and it's a pleasant way to spend an afternoon. A visit on Maryland Millions day is enough to convince anyone that Maryland still has passion for the sport. It's a shame that the citizens of that state are faced with the choice they have.

[Relwob Owner]

For Md. racing to have a chance of survival as currently organized, yes.

If Md. were to consolidate all of their resources into Laurel Park which would streamline their ops, i.e. overhead, they would have a chance to compete and survive. But Stronach, his peeps and Md. pols are idiots and that is the reason Md. racing will go down the tubes.

I have often posted that I don't care, but now that this is coming to fruition, I am starting to realize that not going to Laurel Park on a beautiful Saturday afternoon in May-June or July will be sorely missed; and all because of bulls--t politics and greedy little men.


CJD,

Help me out here....the other poster keeps saying slots didnt pass but I believe it did, didnt it? The issue now is a licensing one I believe....will someone please clarify this because I am almost positive it did and that would quiet the "maryland people didnt want it" argument.....also, from what I know and hear, deFrances is thought to be the major issue in MD

[Relwob Owner]

so at the end of the day slots didn't get passed and they needed to get passed correct?


article from the Wash Post....seems like the licensing fee, not the vote....


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/annapolis/2009/03/judge_rejects_laurel_slots_app.html

[point given]

Magna Entertainment Corp., the bankrupt racing company, received approval on Monday for $38.5 million in loans from its largest creditor and parent company so that it can continue to fund its operations while reorganizing.

U.S. Bankruptcy Court Judge Mary Walrath approved the request at a Monday hearing in Delaware, where Magna filed for bankruptcy on March 5. Magna had initially reached an agreement with its parent company, MI Developments, for $62.5 million, but the companies pared the request just prior to the hearing.

Walrath also set two hearing dates in early May to hear motions on plans for Magna to auction off its properties. The first hearing, May 4, will consider a motion for auction procedures related to Santa Anita Park, Laurel Park, Pimlico Race Course, Remington Park, Thistledown, and Portland Meadows.

The second hearing, on May 7, will consider the auction procedures for Gulfstream Park, Golden Gate Fields, Palm Meadows Training Center, the bet-processing company AmTote, and the account-wagering company XpressBet. Magna had initially planned to allow MI Developments to submit a stalking-horse bid for that bundle of properties, but the plan was scrapped just prior to the hearing due to a torrent of objections from creditors and shareholders.

Magna owes MI Developments $371 million. Pressure from shareholders and creditors will likely force the company to sell off its most valuable properties, such as Santa Anita Park, to pay down the debt

[proximity]

CJD,

Help me out here....the other poster keeps saying slots didnt pass but I believe it did, didnt it? The issue now is a licensing one I believe....will someone please clarify this because I am almost positive it did and that would quiet the "maryland people didnt want it" argument.....also, from what I know and hear, deFrances is thought to be the major issue in MD

slots did pass and were practically handed to lrl on a silver platter. however by the time they finally did pass, frank's magna entertainment (?) was in so deep that he resisted paying the licensing fee (around 28 million) by questioning the fee's "constitutionality". (his was the only operation to do so) since i believe he would have had to share some of the profits with defrancis and those profits would be taxed heavier than slots in surrounding states.... he may have decided that it just wasn't worth it anymore or maybe he just didn't have the 28 million? i don't know, but the bottom line is that with this move he pretty much destroyed racing in a state with a tradition deeper than pa, wv, and del combined.

[Track Collector]

slots did pass and were practically handed to lrl on a silver platter. however by the time they finally did pass, frank's magna entertainment (?) was in so deep that he resisted paying the licensing fee (around 28 million) by questioning the fee's "constitutionality". (his was the only operation to do so) since i believe he would have had to share some of the profits with defrancis and those profits would be taxed heavier than slots in surrounding states.... he may have decided that it just wasn't worth it anymore or maybe he just didn't have the 28 million? i don't know, but the bottom line is that with this move he pretty much destroyed racing in a state with a tradition deeper than pa, wv, and del combined.

MAGNA was also concerned that in the event the local jurisdiction did not approve slots, they would not get their license fee back.

[proximity]

MAGNA was also concerned that in the event the local jurisdiction did not approve slots, they would not get their license fee back.

thanks tc.

and as a side note, if the tracks should close do you know if this will have any influence on the cracked claw/ off track wagering? i imagine timonium would keep running too?

[Buckeye]

Sounds to me like FS can't handle the heat. "I bought this or that track but now I'm bankrupt" ???

Please! Must HAVE been something not materially done (such as follow threw on promises or ideas). Broken promises, broken ideas lead to failure.

[Buckeye]

To spell it out clearly (what he didn't do and promised to do) was make the horseplayer the King of the Castle and therefore he had no allies.

[Relwob Owner]

slots did pass and were practically handed to lrl on a silver platter. however by the time they finally did pass, frank's magna entertainment (?) was in so deep that he resisted paying the licensing fee (around 28 million) by questioning the fee's "constitutionality". (his was the only operation to do so) since i believe he would have had to share some of the profits with defrancis and those profits would be taxed heavier than slots in surrounding states.... he may have decided that it just wasn't worth it anymore or maybe he just didn't have the 28 million? i don't know, but the bottom line is that with this move he pretty much destroyed racing in a state with a tradition deeper than pa, wv, and del combined.



Thanks for the info....I was reading so much of the "the people didnt want it and it didnt pass" stuff I just wanted to make sure the real deal

[cj's dad]

Proximity nailed it pretty well. I will add this; it ALL goes back to the moronic/idiotic self-serving politicians we have here in the "free state" of Md.

[Track Collector]

thanks tc.

and as a side note, if the tracks should close do you know if this will have any influence on the cracked claw/ off track wagering? i imagine timonium would keep running too?

I believe that as long as there is a Maryland Racing Commission, places like the Cracked Claw (if they continue to meet the proper requirements) can continue to operate an OTW. Perhaps business could dip a little as some state residents like to wager on "local" product.

I sure hope Timonium keeps running. I know some people do not like second or third-rate racing, but the atmosphere with the fair is kind of neat. My hope is that once slots gets up an running, Timonium will receive a small portion of the slots pie and be able to attach more horses and run a few more days.

I completely agree with CD's Dad about Maryland politicians. Slots have been approved by the people, and many in Maryland government look forward to the big-time boost in budget revenue slots will bring. But, those running the show appear to lack the skills and intelligence to get this done anytime soon. Unfortunately, Maryland horsemen and all taxpayers will be the ones to suffer.:mad:

[cj's dad]

as reported by the local media today, ticket sales are down 12%. If this continues, general attendance will dip below 100k for the 1st time in many years.

Looks like the inflted ticket prices, and the cooler ban in the infield is having an effect.

[eastie]

Pimlico, Laurel, Finger Lakes , Presque Isle, Philidelphia Park and Penn National all need to just go away. Far Far away. And Suffolk Downs.

Delaware Park, Mountineer, Charles Town, and one more day time track are more than enough for the mid atlantic. I bet alot of money and I haven't made a bet in any of those above tracks in a very long time.

Obviously since you bet a lot of money, you should be in charge of which tracks stay open. I guess you got that money the old fashioned way (inheriting it) cause it sure wasn't from having any brains. Maybe you should go Far far away. Since when is Suffolk or Finger Lakes the mid atlantic ? Finger Lakes is north of Saratoga, and Suffiolk Downs will have slots by the end of the year and much bigger purses.

[Rackon]

Pimlico, Laurel, Finger Lakes , Presque Isle, Philidelphia Park and Penn National all need to just go away. Far Far away. And Suffolk Downs.

Delaware Park, Mountineer, Charles Town, and one more day time track are more than enough for the mid atlantic. I bet alot of money and I haven't made a bet in any of those above tracks in a very long time.

Racing will be downsized, willingly or no.

But your statement quite astonishes me and seems anything but astute - not to mention lacking in basic geographical knowledge. I asssume you are a horse player and not a horseman and unacquainted with the eastern half of the US.

These tracks serve don't all serve the same market(s) - certainly not the base product: runners. Penn and PP are in a slots state and will do fine. Finger Lakes in in upper NY, again, serving the mid to lower level owners in New England and NYRA. Suffolk ("Sufferin' Downs") is again a different market, and doing better these days with their slots money. Maryland racing needs to upgrade its product with better purses through slots. As someone who lobbied hard for slots in Indiana for over 10 years, I know it ain't easy.

The thought of closing all these tracks and only having Charlestown and Mountaineer i(leaving out the northern Finger Lakes & Suffolk) is appalling. It would leave hundreds of owners and trainers (and thus the industry itself) high and dry. Too silly.

[andymays]

Just for arguments sake lets say we had 3 regional racetracks in the United States and all of the handle was concentrated of those three tracks. The handles would be enormous.

Since the handle would be enormous the tracks would probably make a good profit with a 10% take.

With a 10% take Horse Racing becomes a good bet and the offshore money gets back in the game which increases the handle all the more.

It's simple right?

[toussaud]

in an industry where more than 2/3rds of all wager comes from off track, there really isn't a such thing as a market anymore.

the pie is a north american pie and there are too many slices

[toussaud]

Just for arguments sake lets say we had 3 regional racetracks in the United States and all of the handle was concentrated of those three tracks. The handles would be enormous.

Since the handle would be enormous the tracks would probably make a good profit with a 10% take.

With a 10% take Horse Racing becomes a good bet and the offshore money gets back in the game which increases the handle all the more.

It's simple right?

yes.