Gomez chooses to ride

[point given]

Announcement on sunday whether it will be Dunkirk or Pioneer . BUT , there is an article on NTRA by Gomez on his anaylsis of the two horses and their running styles . Seems as if he has concerns of POTN pulling himself up after making the lead in races.

http://www.ntra.com/blog.aspx?blogid=26&year=2009&month=4&day=16

[joanied]

Announcement on sunday whether it will be Dunkirk or Pioneer . BUT , there is an article on NTRA by Gomez on his anaylsis of the two horses and their running styles . Seems as if he has concerns of POTN pulling himself up after making the lead in races.

http://www.ntra.com/blog.aspx?blogid=26&year=2009&month=4&day=16

PT...thanks :ThmbUp: for posting this...it's a great read and very insightful...Gomez on SB now will be interesting...I'm a Mike Smith fan, but I was not at all surprised to read that IEAH is going to Gomez for her...

as for the Derby...he has good things to say about both colts (DUH)...and it's nice to be able to weigh the pros & cons of both horses via the jockey's experience with each of them...
I am in hopes he decides on Pioneer...because I seriously doubt any other rider can keep him going when he starts loafing...it was almost funny watching Gomez in the SA Derby...he was all over Pioneer to keep him going..IMO...that was one of the best rides I've seen in a long time.

Hey Gomez...please choose the Pioneer:jump:

[point given]

PT...thanks :ThmbUp: for posting this...it's a great read and very insightful...Gomez on SB now will be interesting...I'm a Mike Smith fan, but I was not at all surprised to read that IEAH is going to Gomez for her...

as for the Derby...he has good things to say about both colts (DUH)...and it's nice to be able to weigh the pros & cons of both horses via the jockey's experience with each of them...
I am in hopes he decides on Pioneer...because I seriously doubt any other rider can keep him going when he starts loafing...it was almost funny watching Gomez in the SA Derby...he was all over Pioneer to keep him going..IMO...that was one of the best rides I've seen in a long time.

Hey Gomez...please choose the Pioneer:jump:

Hey , JD, I think he is torn because he knows Dunkirk has more upside down the road, like the Travers/BC . Pioneer is more developed though but a tougher ride .

http://video.yahoo.com/network/100063489?v=4853639&l=100063517 check out susan boyle on this clip, non horse related, hotest thing going.

[Relwob Owner]

Hey , JD, I think he is torn because he knows Dunkirk has more upside down the road, like the Travers/BC . Pioneer is more developed though but a tougher ride .

http://video.yahoo.com/network/100063489?v=4853639&l=100063517 check out susan boyle on this clip, non horse related, hotest thing going.


I gotta be honest....I kind of feel like Dunkirk is like the kid right out of high school or after a year in college who is hyped for the NBA and everyone talks about his "upside" and "potential" while he hasnt done that much on the court....my two cents is that this is one of the most overhyped horses in recent memory....also, the horse is obviously really well bred and will probably not have too long of a career(quick to the breeding shed) and we will end up looking back on him and wondering what all the fuss was about....just an opinion....

[Mineshaft]

Hey , JD, I think he is torn because he knows Dunkirk has more upside down the road, like the Travers/BC . Pioneer is more developed though but a tougher ride .

http://video.yahoo.com/network/100063489?v=4853639&l=100063517 check out susan boyle on this clip, non horse related, hotest thing going.





Your exactly right on your assesment of both horses.

[toussaud]

other things... POTN is bigger than dunkirk. Baffert and gomez do alot more together (that i know of) than pletcher and gomez do.

And personally, at least we don't KNOW if quality road can beat POTN. POTN is a tad bit more versitle than Dunkirk, which means he is more liekly to get a better trip. Dunkirk is a stone cold closer that will come from the clouds and make a swooping move and hope he has enough steam to pass horses, POTN can be somewhat placed where he needs to be.

Plus I'll take baffert getting a horse ready for the derby > Dunkirk

the only thing making this a hard choice is ESPN

[Relwob Owner]

other things... POTN is bigger than dunkirk. Baffert and gomez do alot more together (that i know of) than pletcher and gomez do.

And personally, at least we don't KNOW if quality road can beat POTN. POTN is a tad bit more versitle than Dunkirk, which means he is more liekly to get a better trip. Dunkirk is a stone cold closer that will come from the clouds and make a swooping move and hope he has enough steam to pass horses, POTN can be somewhat placed where he needs to be.

Plus I'll take baffert getting a horse ready for the derby > Dunkirk

the only thing making this a hard choice is ESPN





:ThmbUp:

[joanied]

Hey , JD, I think he is torn because he knows Dunkirk has more upside down the road, like the Travers/BC . Pioneer is more developed though but a tougher ride .

http://video.yahoo.com/network/100063489?v=4853639&l=100063517 check out susan boyle on this clip, non horse related, hotest thing going.

Hey PT... first...the video clip...I didn't know her name, so figured it was some hot;) babe in the clip...I went over to watch it because I didn't want to be rude...pleasant surprise, PT... I did see her on Fox news just the other day...she could use a makeover, but man, can she sing...brilliant:ThmbUp:

Back to Gomez...your take on this is pretty good...but IMHO...both colts have upsides down the road...either one could take the Travers/BC...Pioneer is sort of a freak...he developed beautifully as a colt that is still a 2 year old and will continue to develope as he matures age wise...did that make sense?
Dunkirk, IMHO...is maybe a bit over rated...he sure has that monsterous late kick...but in the Derby, I don't know...he'll have to find the room to get clear of 19 other colts...whereas Pioneer can pretty much be placed anywhere, has an incredible turn of foot...yes, he's a difficult horse to ride, but hey...I think for some Derby glory, Gomez shouldn't mind having to ride his ass off for maybe a 1/8th or 1/16th of a mile:jump:
:)

[joanied]

I gotta be honest....I kind of feel like Dunkirk is like the kid right out of high school or after a year in college who is hyped for the NBA and everyone talks about his "upside" and "potential" while he hasnt done that much on the court....my two cents is that this is one of the most overhyped horses in recent memory....also, the horse is obviously really well bred and will probably not have too long of a career(quick to the breeding shed) and we will end up looking back on him and wondering what all the fuss was about....just an opinion....

Crap...shoulda read your post, Relwob, before I replied to Point Given...I also said I beleive Dunkirk is a bit over rated...and you are correct...he won't be around for long...what'd they pay for him...3 million+...gotta start gettin' some of that money back in stud fees:faint:

[Relwob Owner]

Crap...shoulda read your post, Relwob, before I replied to Point Given...I also said I beleive Dunkirk is a bit over rated...and you are correct...he won't be around for long...what'd they pay for him...3 million+...gotta start gettin' some of that money back in stud fees:faint:



I dunno-it is going to be interesting, thats for sure---I just get frustrated when people still talk abt Dunkirk and less about the other horses have accomplished so much....oh well, I hope we get Garrett tomorrow!

[lamboguy]

if he don't take dunkirk you can read into it that there is a problem with dunkirk after skipping the last work.

dunkirk will be bet down with or without gogo. got to think gogo will be on the derby winner this year whichever one he chooses. or should i say ron anderson chooses.

[point given]

I gotta be honest....I kind of feel like Dunkirk is like the kid right out of high school or after a year in college who is hyped for the NBA and everyone talks about his "upside" and "potential" while he hasnt done that much on the court....my two cents is that this is one of the most overhyped horses in recent memory....also, the horse is obviously really well bred and will probably not have too long of a career(quick to the breeding shed) and we will end up looking back on him and wondering what all the fuss was about....just an opinion....
you may be right, but there is always a Lebron to point to as the exception.

[Relwob Owner]

you may be right, but there is always a Lebron to point to as the exception.


Garnett too...Amare...Kobe.....Dwight Howard....maybe my analogy wasnt so great!:)

[Robert Fischer]

I'll be very surprised if Gomez isn't on Dunkirk.

[toussaud]

something else someone just pointed out

everyone talks about all this upside dunkirk has


PIONEER OF THE NILE IS STILL 2!!!!!

shoot he won't be 3 until the week before the belmont


and the sad part is, i actually LIKE dunkirk but this dunkirk hype is crazy. he's a freaking allowence winner going into the kentucky derby and this jockey is seriously debating on who to ride.

[lamboguy]

I'll be very surprised if Gomez isn't on Dunkirk.

if he didn't have a great reason as to why he didn't work this week, gomez will be on something else. don't be so surprised at anything in this game.

[joanied]

if he don't take dunkirk you can read into it that there is a problem with dunkirk after skipping the last work.

dunkirk will be bet down with or without gogo. got to think gogo will be on the derby winner this year whichever one he chooses. or should i say ron anderson chooses.

Now that is an interesting bit of info that I didn't know...that they skipped a work for Dunkirk...why would you do that getting this close to the Derby...unless something is wrong...didn't Dunkirk have several 'issues' they had to work through with him?

[joanied]

something else someone just pointed out

everyone talks about all this upside dunkirk has


PIONEER OF THE NILE IS STILL 2!!!!!

shoot he won't be 3 until the week before the belmont


and the sad part is, i actually LIKE dunkirk but this dunkirk hype is crazy. he's a freaking allowence winner going into the kentucky derby and this jockey is seriously debating on who to ride.

That was me...that Pioneer is still a 2 year old...late May foal...which says a lot about the colt.
Another good point is that Pioneer beat one of the big favorites...IWR...twice...and I don't care if it was in CA...he still beat the horse...twice:)

Also...as someone else mentioned....you have to go with Baffert :ThmbUp: over Pletcher as far as getting a horse ready for the Derby!

[Spendabuck85]

Dunkirk worked this morning:

04/18/2009 PMM 5F :59.90 Dirt Fast H

[joanied]

Dunkirk worked this morning:

04/18/2009 PMM 5F :59.90 Dirt Fast H

ohoh...don't tell Gomez;)

[Dahoss9698]

other things... POTN is bigger than dunkirk. Baffert and gomez do alot more together (that i know of) than pletcher and gomez do.



No they don't. Gomez moved to New York to ride first call for Pletcher when John Velazquez went down a few years ago. If Velazquez is Pletcher's #1 guy, Gomez is 1A.

[Dahoss9698]

if he didn't have a great reason as to why he didn't work this week, gomez will be on something else. don't be so surprised at anything in this game.

Where are you getting the missed work stuff? He worked last Friday and this morning. When was he supposed to work this week? 3 works in 8 days? I doubt it.

[joanied]

Where are you getting the missed work stuff? He worked last Friday and this morning. When was he supposed to work this week? 3 works in 8 days? I doubt it.

:bang:

[toussaud]

No they don't. Gomez moved to New York to ride first call for Pletcher when John Velazquez went down a few years ago. If Velazquez is Pletcher's #1 guy, Gomez is 1A.

decarlo is 1A

gomez gets first dibs on bafferts best (indian blessing, POTN, etc).

[Dahoss9698]

decarlo is 1A

gomez gets first dibs on bafferts best (indian blessing, POTN, etc).

Nope. John Velazquez is Indian Blessing's regular rider. And while Decarlo rides a lot for Pletcher, Gomez pretty much decides who he wants to ride. He flew across country to ride Dunkirk in an allowance race. Not to mention him moving across country to ride first call for Pletcher when Velazquez got hurt. That happened right?

[toussaud]

Nope. John Velazquez is Indian Blessing's regular rider. And while Decarlo rides a lot for Pletcher, Gomez pretty much decides who he wants to ride. He flew across country to ride Dunkirk in an allowance race. Not to mention him moving across country to ride first call for Pletcher when Velazquez got hurt. That happened right?
well i'll be damned.

did gomez not ride IB in the breeders cup juvy win? I guess I just assumed gomez was on her back the whole time

[CBedo]

don't forget the original--Moses Malone!

[Dahoss9698]

well i'll be damned.

did gomez not ride IB in the breeders cup juvy win? I guess I just assumed gomez was on her back the whole time

Yeah he rode her that day. I think the last time he rode her was the Acorn on Belmont day last year. Velazquez got on after and Velazquez was aboard for her 2nd place finish in the BC last year to Ventura, ironically ridden by Gomez.

[joanied]

The wait will come to an end :faint: Sunday 4/19 at Noon from Keeneland...TVG will have it live and in color:jump: Gomez let's the racing world know who he'll ride in the Derby...
starting my mantra :) now...Pioneer, Pioneer, Pioneer, Pioneer....

[horses721]

Here is my prediction with some reasoning. Gomez waited till after the Lexington to be sure that Dunkirk was going to get in because he was on the earnings bubble list of making the derby. Now that Dunkirk is in, I think that is who he will go with.

[joanied]

horses721...you are probably right.

[horses721]

Here is my prediction with some reasoning. Gomez waited till after the Lexington to be sure that Dunkirk was going to get in because he was on the earnings bubble list of making the derby. Now that Dunkirk is in, I think that is who he will go with.

I really nailed that one????

[foregoforever]

I really nailed that one????

:D

The problem is that you tried to figure out who Gomez wanted to ride. The DRF article makes it clear who made the decision:

(from DRF, emphasis mine)
Anderson, who called this the most difficult decision he has had to make in 36 years as an agent, said it came down to the fact that Gomez has won four stakes - including two Grade 1's - on Pioneerof the Nile. Gomez is 4 for 4 on Pioneerof the Nile, including victories in the CashCall Futurity, Robert Lewis, San Felipe, and Santa Anita Derby.

"If I had won four stakes, two Grade 1's on the other horse I would have been on that one," said Anderson, who has been the jockey agent for winners of three Derbies.

[point given]

(from DRF, emphasis mine)
Anderson, who called this the most difficult decision he has had to make in 36 years as an agent, said it came down to the fact that Gomez has won four stakes - including two Grade 1's - on Pioneerof the Nile. Gomez is 4 for 4 on Pioneerof the Nile, including victories in the CashCall Futurity, Robert Lewis, San Felipe, and Santa Anita Derby.

"If I had won four stakes, two Grade 1's on the other horse I would have been on that one," said Anderson, who has been the jockey agent for winners of three Derbies

WHAT IF - POTN struggled at CD getting over the surface in his workout over it / would the stakes victories have mattered in the choice ?

[joanied]

(from DRF, emphasis mine)
Anderson, who called this the most difficult decision he has had to make in 36 years as an agent, said it came down to the fact that Gomez has won four stakes - including two Grade 1's - on Pioneerof the Nile. Gomez is 4 for 4 on Pioneerof the Nile, including victories in the CashCall Futurity, Robert Lewis, San Felipe, and Santa Anita Derby.

"If I had won four stakes, two Grade 1's on the other horse I would have been on that one," said Anderson, who has been the jockey agent for winners of three Derbies

WHAT IF - POTN struggled at CD getting over the surface in his workout over it / would the stakes victories have mattered in the choice ?

Prob'ly not:eek:

[toussaud]

smart decision. you don't drop a 2 time grade 1 winner for a horse that won an allowence race.

[joanied]

smart decision. you don't drop a 2 time grade 1 winner for a horse that won an allowence race.

There ya go:ThmbUp:

[Relwob Owner]

smart decision. you don't drop a 2 time grade 1 winner for a horse that won an allowence race.


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[toussaud]

i'm really interested in seeing who rides dunkirk.

dunkirk is good, but he would need an absoultly perfect trip in the race to have a fighting chance to win it. fast pace up front, rail skimming trip that saves ground and making just the right move. Calivin Borail is the perfect guy for this horse, I wonder if pletcher will pull the trigger on that one. He is not going to cirlce the derby field and kick home and win, he doesn't have that type of talent. but he can win with the right trip.

back to POTN, again, ESPN made this a tougher decision than it had to be. if dunkirk was by not unbridled song and not by a milllion dollar winning grade 1 mare, and not owned by coolmore and not trained by todd pletcher, would we really be having this love affair witht his horse? Quality road looked him dead in the eye and not only won but DREW OFF and all we can talk about is the "upside" of dunkik.

and for all this upside talk, he's actually OLDER than POTN. but what do I know. probably not alot.

[Relwob Owner]

i'm really interested in seeing who rides dunkirk.

dunkirk is good, but he would need an absoultly perfect trip in the race to have a fighting chance to win it. fast pace up front, rail skimming trip that saves ground and making just the right move. Calivin Borail is the perfect guy for this horse, I wonder if pletcher will pull the trigger on that one. He is not going to cirlce the derby field and kick home and win, he doesn't have that type of talent. but he can win with the right trip.

back to POTN, again, ESPN made this a tougher decision than it had to be. if dunkirk was by not unbridled song and not by a milllion dollar winning grade 1 mare, and not owned by coolmore and not trained by todd pletcher, would we really be having this love affair witht his horse? Quality road looked him dead in the eye and not only won but DREW OFF and all we can talk about is the "upside" of dunkik.

and for all this upside talk, he's actually OLDER than POTN. but what do I know. probably not alot.


So, so true.....the newest one I hear is that Gomez will ride POTN now and then get on Dunkirk later in the year when he "really gets good"....I could totally see Dunkirk in the breeding shed very, very soon and not even be running in the fall.....

[toussaud]

So, so true.....the newest one I hear is that Gomez will ride POTN now and then get on Dunkirk later in the year when he "really gets good"....I could totally see Dunkirk in the breeding shed very, very soon and not even be running in the fall.....
I don't know. coolmore is actually about as sporting as you can be with horseflesh this expensive. they had no qualms about trying to run Rags as a 4YO. plus if they will try to run george washington in the breeders cup classic I have no doubt they will try to run dunkirk in the breeders cup, but I just don't see what everyone leads them to believe that he just has more upside than POTN.

it's so bad, it would not suprise me whatsoever ot see dunkirk go off at a lower odd than Quality road on the derby.

[fmolf]

gomez and anderson would have been very foolish to take off of bafferts horse....one should never bite the hand that feeds... this is a decision that will prove fruitful for gomez in the future

[point given]

I don't know. coolmore is actually about as sporting as you can be with horseflesh this expensive. they had no qualms about trying to run Rags as a 4YO. plus if they will try to run george washington in the breeders cup classic I have no doubt they will try to run dunkirk in the breeders cup, but I just don't see what everyone leads them to believe that he just has more upside than POTN.

it's so bad, it would not suprise me whatsoever ot see dunkirk go off at a lower odd than Quality road on the derby.

Dunkirk has upside due to the fact that he didnot run at 2 and is developing later than POTN has.. Also , the reason people like Dunkirk is that he has alot of room to develop with his good 2nd to Quality Road in the Florida Derby which was run over a very speed favoring track which gave QR a big advantage . Lets say the track played differently that day and was kind to closers and Dunkirk wins impressively over QR people would be the other way. I also doubt that Dunkirk will be lower odds than Quality Road in the derby, as he hasnot won a stakes race , is lightly raced, and jockey took off to ride POTN. I'd guess that QR will be around 5/1 and Dunkirk 8/1

[toussaud]

Dunkirk has upside due to the fact that he didnot run at 2 and is developing later than POTN has.. Also , the reason people like Dunkirk is that he has alot of room to develop with his good 2nd to Quality Road in the Florida Derby which was run over a very speed favoring track which gave QR a big advantage . Lets say the track played differently that day and was kind to closers and Dunkirk wins impressively over QR people would be the other way. I also doubt that Dunkirk will be lower odds than Quality Road in the derby, as he hasnot won a stakes race , is lightly raced, and jockey took off to ride POTN. I'd guess that QR will be around 5/1 and Dunkirk 8/1


there is a fallacy with this arguement. people are assuming that because POTN has 8 starts he can't improve. that's not very strong logic.


i dont' think the track as much to do with it as people think.


dunkirk backers want to have their cake and eat it too. meaning, they want you to ackolwedge the big sweeping move he made (which was a thing of beauty) while at the same time, ackolwedgeing that the track played for speed horses which is why quality road won. you can't have it both ways.

tthe truth is, he closed, got up to quality road, and quality road BEAT him.

let's not forget it's not like quality road is a seasoned vet. he has only made 4 starts.

[Dahoss9698]

How sporting is Coolmore? They retired a European 2 year old champion before his 3 year old debut to take the place of an stud with fertility problems. Nothing real sporting there.

[toussaud]

How sporting is Coolmore? They retired a European 2 year old champion before his 3 year old debut to take the place of an stud with fertility problems. Nothing real sporting there.


again, I said they are as sporting as you can be with horseflesh this expensive. they run a business, and you can't blame them for making a business decision.

at the same time I can easily spout out horses like Dylan Thomas, george washington, peeping fawn, galelio, monteju and coutless others that were very expensive properties that they brought back as 4YO's.

[Dahoss9698]

again, I said they are as sporting as you can be with horseflesh this expensive. they run a business, and you can't blame them for making a business decision.

at the same time I can easily spout out horses like Dylan Thomas, george washington, peeping fawn, galelio, monteju and coutless others that were very expensive properties that they brought back as 4YO's.

The Green Monkey? That was sporting. As for the others. George Washington was the stallion that had fertility problems I mentioned. That's why he was brought back. Galileo retired after the Classic in 2001, he was not brought back. Peeping Fawn was a filly. I don't agree it was sporting to race a filly past 3. Montjeu and Dylan Thomas I'll give you. But they aren't a sporting outfit IMO.

[toussaud]

The Green Monkey? That was sporting. As for the others. George Washington was the stallion that had fertility problems I mentioned. That's why he was brought back. Galileo retired after the Classic in 2001, he was not brought back. Peeping Fawn was a filly. I don't agree it was sporting to race a filly past 3. Montjeu and Dylan Thomas I'll give you. But they aren't a sporting outfit IMO.

the green monkey sucked. he was a claiming horse and they coulodn't put him in a claiming race. that is not a good arguement. it's no different than spending 5 million on a filly that can't run a lick, you can't drop her and she can't break her maiden so you retire her. that's not NOT sporting that 's just common sense.


I would not call them the optime of sporting but I think they are more sporting than people give them credit for.

they are more sporting than godolphin IMHO.

[Dahoss9698]

they are more sporting than godolphin IMHO.

That's not saying a whole lot.

[point given]

there is a fallacy with this arguement. people are assuming that because POTN has 8 starts he can't improve. that's not very strong logic.


i dont' think the track as much to do with it as people think.


dunkirk backers want to have their cake and eat it too. meaning, they want you to ackolwedge the big sweeping move he made (which was a thing of beauty) while at the same time, ackolwedgeing that the track played for speed horses which is why quality road won. you can't have it both ways.

tthe truth is, he closed, got up to quality road, and quality road BEAT him.

let's not forget it's not like quality road is a seasoned vet. he has only made 4 starts.
First, I expect POTN to improve off his poly numbers, just as IWR did and Papa Clem did. I think I will in fact put a few bucks on him .
second, QR won on his own right as being further along developmentaly, Dunkirk ran a race like Stedy Edy ran last weekend, a big run and flattened out. Visually, it looked like both would win . but the run was a bit short and/or premature for what the horse had left in the tank compared to its competition..

[joanied]

there is a fallacy with this arguement. people are assuming that because POTN has 8 starts he can't improve. that's not very strong logic.


i dont' think the track as much to do with it as people think.


dunkirk backers want to have their cake and eat it too. meaning, they want you to ackolwedge the big sweeping move he made (which was a thing of beauty) while at the same time, ackolwedgeing that the track played for speed horses which is why quality road won. you can't have it both ways.

tthe truth is, he closed, got up to quality road, and quality road BEAT him.

let's not forget it's not like quality road is a seasoned vet. he has only made 4 starts.

I'd like to add something to this fine post...it was also QR's first time at 2 turns...
OK...one more thing...with that breathtaking sweep and the momentum Dunkirk had going...track bias or not...if he's the colt folks are touting him to be...IMO...he should have at the very least, finished a very close 2nd to QR.

[Dahoss9698]

I'd like to add something to this fine post...it was also QR's first time at 2 turns...
OK...one more thing...with that breathtaking sweep and the momentum Dunkirk had going...track bias or not...if he's the colt folks are touting him to be...IMO...he should have at the very least, finished a very close 2nd to QR.

That's one way of looking at it. I'm not with the track bias crowd really. But I do think Quality Road's overall trip was much easier than Dunkirk. QR sat just outside of a hopeless longshot on a moderate pace. Dunkirk HAD to make that move on the turn to make any kind of a race of it. Understandibly, QR had plenty left in the tank. QR is very good and Dunkirk made him run a bit, with race dynamics against him.

[toussaud]

That's one way of looking at it. I'm not with the track bias crowd really. But I do think Quality Road's overall trip was much easier than Dunkirk. QR sat just outside of a hopeless longshot on a moderate pace. Dunkirk HAD to make that move on the turn to make any kind of a race of it. Understandibly, QR had plenty left in the tank. QR is very good and Dunkirk made him run a bit, with race dynamics against him.
they will run 1000 races and 999 of the time, Quality road's trip wil always been easier than dunkirk beucase he's FASTER. faster horses always have less trouble and are less dependant on pace.

[Dahoss9698]

they will run 1000 races and 999 of the time, Quality road's trip wil always been easier than dunkirk beucase he's FASTER. faster horses always have less trouble and are less dependant on pace.

I'll disagree with the 999 out of 1000 part. But I agree QR has more natural speed. I think it would have been interesting to see what the results would have been, had the rabbit remained in the Florida Derby.

[point given]

I'll disagree with the 999 out of 1000 part. But I agree QR has more natural speed. I think it would have been interesting to see what the results would have been, had the rabbit remained in the Florida Derby.
wouldnot have mattered, horse was scratched because he wouldn't be fast enough to make a difference in the pace, so said pletcher. Interesting to note though that he is Dunkirks workmate and will run in the derby trial the day before . Still like you say, would of liked to see it as an experiment, but they probably would have ignored him and run their race anyway.

[toussaud]

wouldnot have mattered, horse was scratched because he wouldn't be fast enough to make a difference in the pace, so said pletcher. Interesting to note though that he is Dunkirks workmate and will run in the derby trial the day before . Still like you say, would of liked to see it as an experiment, but they probably would have ignored him and run their race anyway.


europe is going to be in the derby trail? is that a joke? he just got pounced in a maiden race last week.

something I never understood... why did not pletcher just run take the points in the florida derby? you kill so many birds with one stone. First of all, he's better on dirt than synethics, also you ensure a decent pace.

[toussaud]

i just watched the florida derby again, and a couple of things are apparant.

1. if a closer is going to win the kentucky derby I have a hard time believing it will be anyone but dunkirk. that thing has a wicked late kick. the move he made to catch quality road is breathtaking.

2. quality road didn't start running until the turn into the stretch.

3. Dunkirk got beat pretty damn fair and square. in the turn it looked as if not that dunkirk was going to win but by how much. then Quality road started to run and the race was over.


these might be the best two derby horses out there

[miesque]

It may be due to the significant sleep deficit I have accrued over the past few weeks, but I found this announcement to be rather funny because I have been told ad nauseam for the past few weeks by just about everyone that Gomez was definitely riding Dunkirk and there was no way choosing Pioneer instead if Dunkirk did indeed have the requisite earning to qualify. I guess all the geniuses were incorrect in their prognostications, maybe they will be just as wrong about Pioneer on Derby Day. :D

[joanied]

It may be due to the significant sleep deficit I have accrued over the past few weeks, but I found this announcement to be rather funny because I have been told ad nauseam for the past few weeks by just about everyone that Gomez was definitely riding Dunkirk and there was no way choosing Pioneer instead if Dunkirk did indeed have the requisite earning to qualify. I guess all the geniuses were incorrect in their prognostications, maybe they will be just as wrong about Pioneer on Derby Day. :D

:ThmbUp: :jump: :ThmbUp:

[Relwob Owner]

It may be due to the significant sleep deficit I have accrued over the past few weeks, but I found this announcement to be rather funny because I have been told ad nauseam for the past few weeks by just about everyone that Gomez was definitely riding Dunkirk and there was no way choosing Pioneer instead if Dunkirk did indeed have the requisite earning to qualify. I guess all the geniuses were incorrect in their prognostications, maybe they will be just as wrong about Pioneer on Derby Day. :D



:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[joanied]

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

:) :) :ThmbUp: :) :)

[the little guy]

Am I the only one that thinks Gomez may have been given a significant incentive to " choose " Pioneer of the Nile?

[Indulto]

Am I the only one that thinks Gomez may have been given a significant incentive to " choose " Pioneer of the Nile?What might constitute a "significant incentive?"

[point given]

blogging away, his choice while waiting as long as he could to see if anything happened. No mention of an incentive ............

http://www.ntra.com/blog.aspx?blogid=26&year=2009&month=4&day=19

[PaceAdvantage]

blogging away, his choice while waiting as long as he could to see if anything happened. No mention of an incentive ............

http://www.ntra.com/blog.aspx?blogid=26&year=2009&month=4&day=19If I were a big time owner or trainer, I wouldn't want him mentioning it either...what owner wants a bidding war to erupt?

[Dahoss9698]

Not to mention if you were Gomez is it something you would mention? Of course not.

[point given]

If I were a big time owner or trainer, I wouldn't want him mentioning it either...what owner wants a bidding war to erupt?
I should have put a :rolleyes: or :eek: after that comment, I thought it would go without saying that an "incentive" would not be advertised.

[Marshall Bennett]

Am I the only one that thinks Gomez may have been given a significant incentive to " choose " Pioneer of the Nile?
The incentive may come in handy , I'll bet he doesn't even hit the board . :D

[joanied]

The incentive may come in handy , I'll bet he doesn't even hit the board . :D

:eek: ...I'll take that bet:jump:

[point given]

looks like the beat writers are catching up with the internet -


Michael Bruncker on Gogo's world

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/30318343/


Bill Finley on Gogo making the wrong choice

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/triplecrown09/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=4086957

[PaceAdvantage]

Not to mention if you were Gomez is it something you would mention? Of course not.Actually, if I were Gomez, yes it is something I would mention, unless told not to by the person paying me...

Why wouldn't I (being an independent contractor) want the world to know that I'm available to the highest bidder?

[Dahoss9698]

Actually, if I were Gomez, yes it is something I would mention, unless told not to by the person paying me...

Why wouldn't I (being an independent contractor) want the world to know that I'm available to the highest bidder?

I imagine if he wanted people to know he would have mentioned it. It's not like it's a big secret what happened. I don't think Gomez wants the general public to know what's going on behind the scenes, especially when it involves an incentive for choosing one horse over another.

[PaceAdvantage]

All I'm saying is that if he did receive some sort of monetary incentive (and I'm not saying I know one way or the other that he did), I would think it would be in the best interest of the jockey's bottom lines to have this become a common occurrence (if it isn't already).

[Dahoss9698]

All I'm saying is that if he did receive some sort of monetary incentive (and I'm not saying I know one way or the other that he did), I would think it would be in the best interest of the jockey's bottom lines to have this become a common occurrence (if it isn't already).

And I agree. But it's not something he is going to mention in a blog or anywhere in the media I would think, which was my original point.