TERRAIN is out

[WinterTriangle]

My god.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090414/SPORTS08/90414019/-1/THUNDER (http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090414/SPORTS08/90414019/-1/THUNDER)

Gotta respect Al Stall for putting his horse's welfare over Derby Fever. Terrain had the earnings, so this will open another spot, huh?

[DrugS]

Passing on the Derby with Terrain would have a lot more to do with finding a more logical spot than looking out for the welfare of the horse.

He reminds me of a type of horse like a Steppenwolfer or Impeachment ... had speed horses such as The Pampelmousse, Old Fashioned, Capt Candy Man Can, and now possibly Regal Ransom all not exited the triple crown trail .. Terrain would have had a good longshot look to plug home a very non-threatening 3rd in the Derby.

Instead he will now be a MUCH shorter price in the 400K Lone Star Derby .. albeit vulnerable from a betting standpoint because of the fact that he is a plodder with charchter flaws.

[WinterTriangle]

Passing on the Derby with Terrain would have a lot more to do with finding a more logical spot than looking out for the welfare of the horse.

Well, "sometimes" it ends up being the same thing, esp. in this kind of race.

[Watcher]

Who's the other "big name" horse pointing towards the Lone Star Derby? I think it was mentioned around here a couple of days ago.

[WinterTriangle]

Who's the other "big name" horse pointing towards the Lone Star Derby? I think it was mentioned around here a couple of days ago.

Summer Bird, I think.

[Watcher]

Summer Bird, I think.

Bingo, that's it.

[sandpit]

Did you notice at the very end of the article where it said a decision on Giant Oak probably wouldn't be made until next Monday? God bless the horse, wish him the best, but doesn't the decision come down to "do we want to pay all this money to watch our colt run 14th"?

btw, Giant Oak's big sister, Apple Martini, runs in the Sixty Sails Saturday at Hawthorne. Good luck to her.

[Bettowin]

Summer Bird, I think.

You got it. If Summer Bird doesn't have a good pace to run at and finishes 3rd or worse then goes to the Belmont, CHA CHING! Keep that in your mind because it will pay very nice.

[Bruddah]

In the Ark Derby this horse broke slowly (last) out of the gate. From the start to 2 Fur. (avg fur 12.84) The jock then used him between 2Fur & 4Fur to catch up (avg fur 11.57) Summer Bird then ran the last two furlongs in the 1m 1/8 race in 11.79 avg per furlong. running third and missing by 1.25 lengths. As I have written elsewhere, a few more yards past the finish line, he blows by the winner and would have won the Ark Derby. Being used early and the colt still ran sub 12's the last 2Fur. is amazing.

Therefore running him in the Lone star Derby, for more seasoning and money, makes sense. This is a lightly raced horse. I think the Ark Derby was like his 3rd start? He is definitely bred to run 1 1/2 miles.

He is definitely one to follow and watch. His Ark Derby performance and numbers indicate it. (JMHO) :ThmbUp:

[joanied]

In the Ark Derby this horse broke slowly (last) out of the gate. From the start to 2 Fur. (avg fur 12.84) The jock then used him between 2Fur & 4Fur to catch up (avg fur 11.57) Summer Bird then ran the last two furlongs in the 1m 1/8 race in 11.79 avg per furlong. running third and missing by 1.25 lengths. As I have written elsewhere, a few more yards past the finish line, he blows by the winner and would have won the Ark Derby. Being used early and the colt still ran sub 12's the last 2Fur. is amazing.

Therefore running him in the Lone star Derby, for more seasoning and money, makes sense. This is a lightly raced horse. I think the Ark Derby was like his 3rd start? He is definitely bred to run 1 1/2 miles.

He is definitely one to follow and watch. His Ark Derby performance and numbers indicate it. (JMHO) :ThmbUp:

Good post:ThmbUp: I never heard of SB before the Ark Derby....and thought that the connections were crazy as I watched him trail the field...felt bad for the horse...then, here he comes...I was impressed.
I mentioned in another post...wouldn't it be something if we have another possible Triple Crown coming into the Belmont...and another 'Bridstone' ruins it all:eek:

[Bruddah]

Joanied, here is additional FYI. Most handicappers not informed about the Oaklawn 1 mile oval, don't know that the horses actually are running uphill between the 7 and 8 furlong markers. (at the top of the stretch) Therefore, his last 2 quarter time averaging below 12's, after being used early, is even more impressive to me.

If he can stay healthy, this young horse can be the "real goods".

[Bettowin]

Joanied, here is additional FYI. Most handicappers not informed about the Oaklawn 1 mile oval, don't know that the horses actually are running uphill between the 7 and 8 furlong markers. (at the top of the stretch) Therefore, his last 2 quarter time averaging below 12's, after being used early, is even more impressive to me.

If he can stay healthy, this young horse can be the "real goods".


The top of the stretch looked flat to me last weekend. If it's uphill it isn't much. The thing I did notice about Oaklawn is that not many horses make a big stretch move.

[Bruddah]

It may have looked that way, but it's uphill. Go to the North end of the track. (back up Central toward the Arlington and old downtown) There is a parking lot there. Go to the fence next to track and survey the last turn leeding to the stretch. You can also go to the North end of the spectators's apron beside the track. You can see some of it from there.

Trust me it effects the split times. I have been doing split times at Oaklawn over 40 years. If a horse runs evenly over the uphill section, his final 1/8th and final 1/16th will reflect it. Actually, the last 1/16th is a little downhill and times somewhat reflect that, as well.

[Bettowin]

It may have looked that way, but it's uphill. Go to the North end of the track. (back up Central toward the Arlington and old downtown) There is a parking lot there. Go to the fence next to track and survey the last turn leeding to the stretch. You can also go to the North end of the spectators's apron beside the track. You can see some of it from there.

Trust me it effects the split times. I have been doing split times at Oaklawn over 40 years. If a horse runs evenly over the uphill section, his final 1/8th and final 1/16th will reflect it. Actually, the last 1/16th is a little downhill and times somewhat reflect that, as well.

Thanks. That is good information to know and probably part of the reason why horses have a hard time passing in that portion of the track. I found it strange that in many races a horse will come off the turn looking like he will go right by the leader and just can't get there.

[joanied]

Bruddah...thanks for that little gem of info...I had no idea...and it does make SB look even better...I think I'll have to look up more FYI about him...do you think with Terrain out, SB might get in?

[Bruddah]

Thanks. That is good information to know and probably part of the reason why horses have a hard time passing in that portion of the track. I found it strange that in many races a horse will come off the turn looking like he will go right by the leader and just can't get there.

If you watch reruns of Oaklawn, you will notice horses, especially closers, looking as if they are "hanging" approx. 1/8th to 1/16th prior to the wire. They then seem to rally and go on forward. If you know what to look for and where, it's quite noticeable in the reruns. If you break down the numbers, it is very noticeable. Let me suggest you look at the rerun of the Ark Derby and the Rebel. When you view it now, you will see it is very noticeable with Win Willy in both the Rebel and Ark derby. It is also very noticeable for Summer Bird in the arky derby. :ThmbUp:

[Bettowin]

If you watch reruns of Oaklawn, you will notice horses, especially closers, looking as if they are "hanging" approx. 1/8th to 1/16th prior to the wire. They then seem to rally and go on forward. If you know what to look for and where, it's quite noticeable in the reruns. If you break down the numbers, it is very noticeable. Let me suggest you look at the rerun of the Ark Derby and the Rebel. When you view it now, you will see it is very noticeable with Win Willy in both the Rebel and Ark derby. It is also very noticeable for Summer Bird in the arky derby. :ThmbUp:

Very nice. In the two weekends I was at Oaklawn this year I swear there were more horses that were on the lead lost it by 1/2 length or so and then re-rallied to win in the last 1/16th. Hmmmmmmmmm.. Very interesting.

I am going to watch the replays to get accustomed to it.

Thanks again.