If You Were Going To Build A New Racetrack, What Surface Would You Chose?

[Bobzilla]

You're loaded and you don't know what else to do with your gazillions of dollars. On top of that you have a passion for the racing world and would like to build a new racetrack as a lasting legacy to your life. You purchase ample acreage of land with close proximity to a major metropolitan area, so much land in fact that you could build a track the size of Belmont if you so desired.

The time has come to make a decision on what type of surface should be chosen for your main track. You're being contacted by officials of the NTRA, Jockey Club and Breeders' Cup who are making their case for an all-weather (synthetic) variety. This would be in the interest of directing North American Racing towards an universal surface, as is done worldwide. They have promised you a Breeders' Cup every so many years if you fall into lockstep with their business plan to integrate North American Racing into the world community of racing. You understand their points and have taken into consideration their "irrefutable" claims that synthetic tracks are a more appropriate surface when considering the well-being of horse and rider. You think about the image of racing as seen by the public at large.

You're torn, however, as you have concerns about reports that indicate some of your potential customers might not want to wager as much if the surface is a synthetic variety. You consider the tradition of North American racing and its history of having a clear distinction between main track dirt racing and inner track grass racing. Both surfaces offering the player a bevy of variables to consider and each with their own dynamics and approaches to optimizing the distribution of energy. Some players have indicated to you that they see synthetics as, perhaps not exactly like turf, but close enough in regard to how the races play out and the bloodlines of those who excel over it. You think about the preservation of our dirt track heritage being something important and you recognize the validity of our racing as we've known it for centuries, despite how it's disrespected and scoffed at by those on other continents and some ex-pat horsemen working here in America. Some people have suggested to you that a well maintained dirt surface can be as safe as a synthetic surface and that the entire issue has diverted resources, energy and attention away from finding the actual causes of injuries to horses.

After thinking about this for awhile you realize you have three options. What option would you chose?

[eastie]

synthetic tracks are like a rainy day at the beach. They have awesome dirt at saratoga. I'd use something like that. They used to have this really dark brown dirt at Rockingham that was high quality dirt. It even tasted pretty good according to a couple people who I made taste it.

[onefast99]

Dirt with a clay base two inches of sand and top soil.

[SMOO]

Turf with a removable dome over the course.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I answered Synthetic because your question was only on the MAIN track, so the 3rd option is mute. That leaves only the option between dirt, which as far as I know, USA track is over 50% sand, and fake. So sand Vs sand with a bit of synthetic material is your actual options, and you do not have an option for "Neither", which would have been my answer.
If I had that much ground to work with, I would choose a mild enviroment with a regular amount of rain all year, and I would put in 3 GRASS tracks, long grass on the main track, medium length grass on the secondary track, and short, less watered grass on the sprint track. Then on the infield long grass for "free range" horses on the mend. I would make the track the most horse-friendly of all, nothing blocking the view of the track, put the toteboard high up with trackus, require extra large numbers on the horses, publish all final times of all runners in .00 seconds, have 1 strip of deep synthetic surface on the front portion of the infield for jousting between races, karaoke contests with a live band after, free PP's in the programs, dirt strip between main and seconary track for ambulance and van And 1 on the infield for the sprint track), outside seating plastic cushioned, free pencils and pens, special races for shippers from non-grass tracks including maiden and maiden claimers for dirt but non-grass winners, at least a couple of fast food restaurants which ONLY have $1.00 menu. I would sell horseshoes of the track's or stabled stakes winners in the gift shop and have the money going to retired unwanted-horse care, and a ceremony in the winner's circle for retiring horses, saying where they are going next and giving them each a nameplate for their harness, sending a no slaughter statement and the medical record with them. I would host events targeted to high school seniors on dark days like various job prep training. I would have progressive longshot betting and a "board" just for all track carryovers and bets under 1.00.

[JustRalph]

Turf with a removable dome over the course.

that's an idea.......... but I don't think there is a dome that big anywhere?

the engineering alone might be tough

[hencicleva]

I don't get the idea that the "World" has embraced synthetic. As far as I know (I am a newbie) the UK and Ireland only use it for training and for minor evening races. I think there would be riots and questions in Parliament if they tried to swap any major turf courses for poly. I'd have all 3 if it were feasable but please keep Dirt and Turf!

[foregoforever]

Why is "time to join the world racing community" attached to synthetics? There are very few synthetic tracks around the world, and then only as training courses or back-ups for the turf course when out of the growing season.

If you really want to join the world racing community, you'd eliminate dirt and install multiple turf courses in the southern states, and turf courses plus a cold-weather synthetic track in the north.

[cj]

There are actually synthetic turf courses that are spectacular.

[Bobzilla]

Why is "time to join the world racing community" attached to synthetics? There are very few synthetic tracks around the world, and then only as training courses or back-ups for the turf course when out of the growing season.

If you really want to join the world racing community, you'd eliminate dirt and install multiple turf courses in the southern states, and turf courses plus a cold-weather synthetic track in the north.

I understand what you're saying. It begs the question why are synthetic surfaces being installed at all if all we really need to do to join the world racing community is simply race on grass period. I guess the answer would be that tracks need an alternative if the grass course is deemed unsafe due to excessive rain. I believe in Europe they race anyway when the track is a bog, but that might be because the courses have sweeping turns and not tight turns as is the case here.

I do feel that the powers that be in American Racing view synthetic surfaces as a leveling of the playing field when matching American main track horses against European turf horses. I don't agree with that assertion but I think it's widely accepted as true.

[MickJ26]

The answer's easy, one of each.

That way, everyone's happy.

[dartman51]

synthetic tracks are like a rainy day at the beach. They have awesome dirt at saratoga. I'd use something like that. They used to have this really dark brown dirt at Rockingham that was high quality dirt. It even tasted pretty good according to a couple people who I made taste it.

That was the horse shit, mixed in with the dirt, they were tasting. That's what made it DARK BROWN.:lol:

[Fingal]

that's an idea.......... but I don't think there is a dome that big anywhere?

the engineering alone might be tough

Sure there can be- if they can make a Baseball Field with a retractable roof, why couldn't there be a racecourse ? Or maybe they could just get a giant blue tarp............:lol:

[foregoforever]

Or maybe they could just get a giant blue tarp.

What you need are rollers built into the rail that are loaded with ShamWow! After it rains, you roll it out and just let it lay on top of the grass for a few seconds. Then you roll it back up with some sort of wringer in the roller. Grass is dry. Then say "Wow!"

I need to call that patent service that advertises on HRTV.

[DJofSD]

There are actually synthetic turf courses that are spectacular.cj, I'm not familiar with synthetic turf courses. Can you tell us a little bit more about them?

[DanG]

Tapeta

[DJofSD]

TapetaThat is considered to be more of an artifical turf than it is an all weather surface? Maybe this is splitting hairs but I don't think I've come across the phrase artifical turf before, so, it caught my attention.

Maybe it is just a matter of what was the old surface that was replaced by the Tapeta.

[cj]

cj, I'm not familiar with synthetic turf courses. Can you tell us a little bit more about them?

I was a little off base. There are some courses in Hong Kong and Australia with synthetically reinforced root zones, whatever that means. Bill Nader, formerly of NYRA, says the turf courses in Hong Kong are unbelievably good. He mentions a day they had 6 inches of rain in 24 hours and then ran the full card of 10 races on the grass with times off by less than a second from the norm.

The courses also appear to be much safer than conventional turf. A company StrathAyr makes them.

http://www.strathayr.com.au/index.htm

[magwell]

All three is the way to go....In the future when there is only 6 to 10 race tracks running in this country, thats the way it will be with full fields and lots of options.:)

[DJofSD]

off base -- reinforced roots -- there's a pun in there, cj! :D

[Charlie D]

Steeplechase turned into synthetic and you've probably got one of best racetracks in World

[andymays]

Steeplechase turned into synthetic and you've probably got one of best racetracks in World

Tokyo Racecourse seems like a way to make everyone happy. Who has the money to build it though?

[point given]

Tokyo Racecourse seems like a way to make everyone happy. Who has the money to build it though?
Frank Stronach , when he is reincarnated :lol:

[andymays]

Frank Stronach , when he is reincarnated :lol:


You know what? You're probably right! Good Point!

[big frank]

Tapeta I agree. I love the Tapeta surface. I feel it is a very fair surface and the times are honest. I feel the figs hold up on tapeta.

[Nitro]

I think they should make sure that each and every racetrack has its own very unique running surface that’s continuously affected by moisture content in a variety of ways. This way not only would it be impossible to compare race times from one track to another, it would make it more difficult to compare races run on different days at the same track. These racing surfaces should also be maintenance free in order to save money and remove the human element entirely. This way no one could be accused of tampering with the surface and perhaps intentionally altering its moisture content.

The “Horses for Courses” concept would become instantly obsolete since the same surface would change from one day to the next and maybe even from morning to afternoon. In essence there would be no consistency to the surface and it would give every horse with any type of running style a fair chance of winning. Imagine that: A non-discriminating type racecourse that changes every day in order to provide an equal opportunity for any horse to win on any given day.

Race times and track speed records would no longer be necessary because they would have no meaning since they couldn’t be compared from one day to the next.

Certainly a handicapper’s nightmare! They would be totally confused when the horses ship from one track to another, and if it rained forget about it! But who cares about the players! It’s the horse’s safety and the opportunity for it to compete on equal terms based not on actual running ability, but the current track condition that really counts.

[DanG]

That is considered to be more of an artifical turf than it is an all weather surface? Maybe this is splitting hairs but I don't think I've come across the phrase artifical turf before, so, it caught my attention.

Maybe it is just a matter of what was the old surface that was replaced by the Tapeta.
I was referring to the original thread question DJ, not categorizing the surface.

[Bobzilla]

Steeplechase turned into synthetic and you've probably got one of best racetracks in World


Charlie, an interesting look at the Tokyo Racecourse. That's what I meant when I added the BOTH option. My personal preference would be to switch the positions of the dirt and grass tracks on the diagram. I'm surprised that the BOTH option hasn't been more popular but I understand that the poll was based more on fantasy than reality. A track with all three surfaces would have more options given extreme weather conditions.

[turfbar]

What year was it when man began betting on thoughbreds. What was the surface then.Thats the surface we should race on today.

Turfbar

[rastajenk]

My answer would depend on where I'm building my track and what dates I'm going to get.

[Cardus]

I was a little off base. There are some courses in Hong Kong and Australia with synthetically reinforced root zones, whatever that means. Bill Nader, formerly of NYRA, says the turf courses in Hong Kong are unbelievably good. He mentions a day they had 6 inches of rain in 24 hours and then ran the full card of 10 races on the grass with times off by less than a second from the norm.

The courses also appear to be much safer than conventional turf. A company StrathAyr makes them.

http://www.strathayr.com.au/index.htm

I've seen StrathAyr in use in Australia.

[cj]

I've seen StrathAyr in use in Australia.

I'm exceedingly happy for you.

[andymays]

This surface stuff gives me Agita ! Synthetic surfaces = Misery!


agita

1. Heartburn or gastric distress.

2.Giving you more aggrevation than you can stand.

1. Jeez eating that lasagna & scungelli before bed really gave me agita.

[Pick6]

One huge sandy dirt track + 3 PAT turf courses. Run 15+ races a day.

[bane]

I love sand.. sand sand sand! Dirt tracks in general are the way to but everyone forgets one thing: dirt can freeze!

If I had a track that ran above The Mason-Dixon Line in the winter time I would pick a synthetic surface. This would only be if it ONLY ran in the winter time.

[GaryG]

If I had a track that ran above The Mason-Dixon Line in the winter time I would pick a synthetic surface. This would only be if it ONLY ran in the winter time.That was the point when Polytrack was installed at Turfway. All Weather surface they called it. Then things just went crazy. Certainly no need for it at AP or Kee. And it never rains in Southern California.

[bane]

I hear you!! I remember when the talk about Santa Anita switching and I was at a barn next to the training track at Keeneland seeing Stronach there. He was with his cronies tere for the sale and they were checking out the new polytrack.. my reaction was NOOOOO!

I was and I still am for synthetic dirt at winter tracks in which the track could actually freeze!

Also don't forget Southern Cali did get rain last winter!!!

[jballscalls]

1) synthetic surface (its the safest)
2) takeout goes up the more you bet (because you can afford it)
3) a massive toteboard and video screen and trees that block the view (scenery)
4) horse players will get one floor of my building (slot parlor is the other 7 floors)
5) you have to listen to me announce (yes my ego is that huge!)
6) Andymays will be in charge of our email distribution list
7) we would have tons of signal wars with ADW's
8) beer isn't cheap

[nijinski]

Dirt track for me with a top notch crew to maintain.

[TheFlagIsUp]

Dirt for racing, polytrack for training when it rains.

[HuggingTheRail]

Real dirt, artificial turf, and a retractable roof

[senortout]

Roof is out since the track would never get enough water if they covered it everytime it rained. Would soon be a second dirt track!

[Johnny V]

This surface stuff gives me Agita ! Synthetic surfaces = Misery!


agita

1. Heartburn or gastric distress.

2.Giving you more aggrevation than you can stand.

1. Jeez eating that lasagna & scungelli before bed really gave me agita.
I could not agree more. I hate all that synthetic polycrap.

[WinterTriangle]

What year was it when man began betting on thoughbreds. What was the surface then.Thats the surface we should race on today.

Turfbar

How were they betting? Let's bring that back too.

If you're a fan of reactionary practices, just because they're old, let's bring back horse slaughterhouses and re-legalize slaughter, get rid of post-mortem procedures, and reverse the bans on anabolic steroids in NY, KY, etc., and change security practices so that riders can still "jolt" horses,etc.

While we're at it, let's bring back horse tripping :eek: in rodeos in western states. And get rid of air conditioning and paved roads.:)

[thespaah]

a 9 furlong dirt mostly sand composition with a significant crown and a drainage system similar to what they have at the TPC at Ponte Vedra. This not only alows rain water to pass thorugh a gravel system but has an airflow system that enhances drying. This 9 furlong course is to be surrounded by a 10 fulong turf strip with the same drainage system as the dirt course. An inner winter strip similar to AQU.
I am not concerned with the Breeders Cup. Poly, Pro Ride, Tapeta and Cushion are not an option.
I would run promotions to get people through the doors and have a good time. Above all make sure they want to come back. I would market the hell out of it. Make it THE place to be.
"If you build it , they will come" doesn't work anymore.
BTW there would be free parking and free admission. For Clubhouse patrons, a membership would be available for a nominal up front fee for the season.
Takeout rates would be lowest in the business.
The building capacity would be 10,000 with room for exapansion should the need arise.
For backstretch personnel..Dorms would be nice places to live. Heat AC, each room with it's onw bath and shower. Security would be of the highest quality. MIscreants and criminals would be banned. THe dorms would be clean and kep nice. The backstretch people are the least repsected and poorest of those in horse racing. I would make sure that at my track they would be given the best treatment and living facilites in the business.
Finally, I would surround myself with the smartest most innovative marketing people I could employ. I would look for people with ideas. I would hire anyone who could produce. I wouldn't care if they didn't have a college degree either.

[Actor]

I'd choose synthetic. I've heard the horses break down less often on synthetic surfaces. As a handicapper, I can adapt.

As long as I'm dreaming I'd build a track with no turns, just a 1.4 mile straight, roughly the diagonal of a one mile square. The main reason for an oval is so spectators can see more of the race, but with simulcasting I'd spend less money on the grandstand and more on TV cameras. As far as seeing the entire race goes, most races are 6 furlongs out of a chute on the backstretch and you can't see the start without binoculars anyway.

Since it would all be straight I'd put it all inside, all races to be run on a fast track at 20Celcius. I'd cover it with a 1.4 mile long quonset hut made of translucent material. I'd try to make it from some sound proof material so that if it did rain the sound would not spook the horses. I've been at the track on days when the sound of rain on the roof of the grandstand was deafening. I wonder if the horses on the track could hear that.

As long as I own the track I'd love to see a few races run against the clock instead of en mass, each horse starting at two minute intervals from the same gate.