A picture is worth a thousand words....

[PaceAdvantage]

To all those who said Magna knew what they were doing and Magna was good for racing when they started buying up all those tracks...what do you have to say for yourself and Frank now?

http://www.paceadvantage.com/images/Magna.gif

[samyn on the green]

My favorite pic of the week. (http://gregcalabrese.blogspot.com/2009/04/sentiment-shared-by-many-horseplayers.html)

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/1a/fullj.bb5049d8e6a705cbc12d5b0e38d40f81/bb5049d8e6a705cbc12d5b0e38d40f81-getty-84748710kd021_santa_anita_d.jpg

[Bruddah]

Samyn, I love that picture. Nothing but the truth and the whole truth shall set them free. :lol:

[Bobzilla]

To all those who said Magna knew what they were doing and Magna was good for racing when they started buying up all those tracks...what do you have to say for yourself and Frank now?

http://www.paceadvantage.com/images/Magna.gif

Not a pretty picture. That stock fell to earth like a well trimmed rock. If you have a chance you might be interested in Andrew Beyer's latest column which can be viewed at the DRF website, and I would guess in today's DRF. He wrote about Halsey Minor and that young entrepreneur's passion for fixing the game of racing and willingness to buy all of Magna Entertainment's debt. I have mixed feelings. On one hand it's good that new energy and money might be on the way to help sustain and possibly improve the sport. On the other hand Minor seems, in some ways, like a younger version of Frank Stronach. I'm weary of self-made millionaires with strong egos and arrogance who wish to enter the picture and impose their personal vision of how things should be, effectively ramming it down the throats of all with little room for input from others. Seems like we've been down that road before. Hopefully any strategy and vision that Minor may bring to the game in the future will be more tenable than what Mr. Stronach delivered.

[Bobzilla]

Samyn, don't do this to me, I almost choked on my coffee laughing so hard when I saw that picture. I guess that photo was taken in California. I wonder how it might have gone over if the banner had been on display at Keeneland. Luckily for Keeneland I don't believe the airspace can be used in this manner given the controlled airspace above and airport just across the street.

[Relwob Owner]

Not a pretty picture. That stock fell to earth like a well trimmed rock. If you have a chance you might be interested in Andrew Beyer's latest column which can be viewed at the DRF website, and I would guess in today's DRF. He wrote about Halsey Minor and that young entrepreneur's passion for fixing the game of racing and willingness to buy all of Magna Entertainment's debt. I have mixed feelings. On one hand it's good that new energy and money might be on the way to help sustain and possibly improve the sport. On the other hand Minor seems, in some ways, like a younger version of Frank Stronach. I'm weary of self-made millionaires with strong egos and arrogance who wish to enter the picture and impose their personal vision of how things should be, effectively ramming it down the throats of all with little room for input from others. Seems like we've been down that road before. Hopefully any strategy and vision that Minor may bring to the game in the future will be more tenable than what Mr. Stronach delivered.



Well put---I have similar concerns....It seems as if when someone has success in one particular business, they tend to believe that they can do anything and take an arrogant attitude over to other businesses....see Dan Snyder and his failures with the Washington Redskins,,,,,As Stronach's failure proved, Horse Racing is a very tough, complicated business with an amazing number of groups that look out for their own interests....

[rgustafson]

My favorite pic of the week. (http://gregcalabrese.blogspot.com/2009/04/sentiment-shared-by-many-horseplayers.html)

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/1a/fullj.bb5049d8e6a705cbc12d5b0e38d40f81/bb5049d8e6a705cbc12d5b0e38d40f81-getty-84748710kd021_santa_anita_d.jpg

That's a very nice picture, but has nothing to do with Magna's demise. Of the nine thoroughbred racetracks that Magna has ownership interest in, seven have dirt surfaces while only Golden Gate and Santa Anita are synthetic.

[098poi]

Here's a great photo (not race related). The Sham Wow guy arrested for having a fight with a Miami prostitute.

[eastie]

i bet that sham wow cleaned all the blood right off his face. (those things suck by the way).

[andymays]

My favorite pic of the week. (http://gregcalabrese.blogspot.com/2009/04/sentiment-shared-by-many-horseplayers.html)

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/1a/fullj.bb5049d8e6a705cbc12d5b0e38d40f81/bb5049d8e6a705cbc12d5b0e38d40f81-getty-84748710kd021_santa_anita_d.jpg


As a person who despises synthetic surfaces this made my day when I heard about it!

It's really fake turf and if the material was green the public would understand.

The problem is the "pace"! Most of the Jocks have the brakes on early and in two turn races everyone is running up on heels into the first turn. It's not only visually ugly it's ugly to wager on. 45% carryovers at Carryover Downs (Santa Anita). Good for the track and bad for the betting public!

[onefast99]

Pace, if you can post the DJIA right next to your magna chart, it will look exactly the same any correlation? I think so...

[Fingal]

Samyn, don't do this to me, I almost choked on my coffee laughing so hard when I saw that picture. I guess that photo was taken in California. I wonder how it might have gone over if the banner had been on display at Keeneland. Luckily for Keeneland I don't believe the airspace can be used in this manner given the controlled airspace above and airport just across the street.

It was flown over Santa Anita before the Derby. Jerry Jamgotchian was on a horse racing radio show out here in CA the next day & said he even called Ron Charles to swear that he didn't pay for this.:eek:

[Tom]

Here's a great photo (not race related). The Sham Wow guy arrested for having a fight with a Miami prostitute.

I thought that was Frankeeeeeee after a BOD meeting at Magna! :lol:

[Imriledup]

As a person who despises synthetic surfaces this made my day when I heard about it!

It's really fake turf and if the material was green the public would understand.

The problem is the "pace"! Most of the Jocks have the brakes on early and in two turn races everyone is running up on heels into the first turn. It's not only visually ugly it's ugly to wager on. 45% carryovers at Carryover Downs (Santa Anita). Good for the track and bad for the betting public!

Extremely truthful post Andy.

Unless a bettor is also a horse owner, bettors could care less about the safety of horses first. Sure, they want safety, but not at the expense of their betting. People want to wager and win. The safety issue is the horseman's problem. Now, by making all these tracks synthetic, they've made it the bettors problem.

For the first time in a while, i didn't even watch the Bluegrass. Didn't handicap it, didn't watch it, don't care who won. Nothing at that place matters at all. Ok, everyone is safe, great. You can be safe without my money. Anyone who bets on Keeneland is a much better man than me.

[Relwob Owner]

Extremely truthful post Andy.

Unless a bettor is also a horse owner, bettors could care less about the safety of horses first. Sure, they want safety, but not at the expense of their betting. People want to wager and win. The safety issue is the horseman's problem. Now, by making all these tracks synthetic, they've made it the bettors problem.

For the first time in a while, i didn't even watch the Bluegrass. Didn't handicap it, didn't watch it, don't care who won. Nothing at that place matters at all. Ok, everyone is safe, great. You can be safe without my money. Anyone who bets on Keeneland is a much better man than me.


Good points guys....I was initially for synthetics and was totally wrong....funny how the sport would be safer if the money was instead put into having stricter drug standards and most importantly, better enforcement. Now, the synthetics really are a quagmire in terms of betting and also in terms of racing....The Breeders Cup Classic cemented things to me, as it became a turf race run on brown turf....

[Imriledup]

Good points guys....I was initially for synthetics and was totally wrong....funny how the sport would be safer if the money was instead put into having stricter drug standards and most importantly, better enforcement. Now, the synthetics really are a quagmire in terms of betting and also in terms of racing....The Breeders Cup Classic cemented things to me, as it became a turf race run on brown turf....

Good post RO.

Most people who are serious customers of this game are men in their 40s, 50's and older. Most serious bettors and big bettors have had over 10 years of serious experience betting and handicapping. What you learned was basically tossed out the window. You had to reinvent the wheel if you want to bet on synthetic. I think Cushion, Tapeta and Pro Ride are more consistent and at least somewhat handicappable, but the Polytrack is a joke.

Spending all this money on synthetic surfaces is like clogging up a hole in the boat with your finger. Sure, the water will stop pouring into the bottom of the boat for the time being, but at some point, you're going to have to really fix that hole. Like RO said, there are better ways to make racing safer without messing with all the years of experience that horseplayers of today have and need in order to wager large sums of money.

I know, some of you will say that great players can adapt to anything, but my response to that is, "why should we". As far as i was concerned, nothing was broke, i didn't need it fixed. I was doing just fine on regular dirt tracks and oh by the way, regular dirt has been around for hundreds of years and now all of a sudden it needs fixing?

There was no problems at all in the heyday of horse racing as far as surfaces were concerned, Horses raced every 4 days it seemed. Now, we have so many commercial stallions who have conformation problems and they're passing these bad legs onto their sons and daughters. That is the problem, along with illegal drugs and too many trainers who are just in the game to cash bets, cheat a bit and win big purses. All that stuff is the problem. The dirt wasn't the problem, its all the other stuff.

And now, the bettors have to suffer betting on this poly crap. Thank god there are still some real racetracks out there that haven't fallen into the synthetic trap.

Synthetic surfaces produce synthetic results.

[Charli125]

Pace, if you can post the DJIA right next to your magna chart, it will look exactly the same any correlation? I think so...

I think the Dow has done just a bit better! The image is small, but the blue is Magna, and the red is the Dow.
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4010/magnas.jpg
(http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnas.jpg)

[Relwob Owner]

Good post RO.

Most people who are serious customers of this game are men in their 40s, 50's and older. Most serious bettors and big bettors have had over 10 years of serious experience betting and handicapping. What you learned was basically tossed out the window. You had to reinvent the wheel if you want to bet on synthetic. I think Cushion, Tapeta and Pro Ride are more consistent and at least somewhat handicappable, but the Polytrack is a joke.

Spending all this money on synthetic surfaces is like clogging up a hole in the boat with your finger. Sure, the water will stop pouring into the bottom of the boat for the time being, but at some point, you're going to have to really fix that hole. Like RO said, there are better ways to make racing safer without messing with all the years of experience that horseplayers of today have and need in order to wager large sums of money.

I know, some of you will say that great players can adapt to anything, but my response to that is, "why should we". As far as i was concerned, nothing was broke, i didn't need it fixed. I was doing just fine on regular dirt tracks and oh by the way, regular dirt has been around for hundreds of years and now all of a sudden it needs fixing?

There was no problems at all in the heyday of horse racing as far as surfaces were concerned, Horses raced every 4 days it seemed. Now, we have so many commercial stallions who have conformation problems and they're passing these bad legs onto their sons and daughters. That is the problem, along with illegal drugs and too many trainers who are just in the game to cash bets, cheat a bit and win big purses. All that stuff is the problem. The dirt wasn't the problem, its all the other stuff.

And now, the bettors have to suffer betting on this poly crap. Thank god there are still some real racetracks out there that haven't fallen into the synthetic trap.

Synthetic surfaces produce synthetic results.


Great points, especially about the breeding aspect and the fact that horses used to run on so little rest....again, when the powers at be in Horse Racing finally get off their collective butts to do something, it goes sideways.....ugh

[Bobzilla]

I think the Dow has done just a bit better! The image is small, but the blue is Magna, and the red is the Dow.
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4010/magnas.jpg
(http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnas.jpg)

Interesting. I'm not sure what the market capitalization category Magna Entertainment would fall into. Just wondering if the Russell 2000 index would be a more appropriate comparison as far as a trend line is concerned. But at the end of the day I would think any analysis would reveal Magna Entertainment is bankrupt because it isn't a profitable business model, not because of any pressures on the equity markets.

[salty]

If I had any money in my account right now i would be flipping that stock like crazy. It is highly possible for it to jump back up to around 25 cents from the 13 cents it is at right now.

:cool:

[salty]

Interesting. I'm not sure what the market capitalization category Magna Entertainment would fall into. Just wondering if the Russell 2000 index would be a more appropriate comparison as far as a trend line is concerned. But at the end of the day I would think any analysis would reveal Magna Entertainment is bankrupt because it isn't a profitable business model, not because of any pressures on the equity markets.

I think the most appropriate comparison for a trend line is the whole gambling and resort sector of the market. look at mgm and lvs almost as bad

list of most casino and resort stocks (http://www.profitquotes.com/cgi/?a=screen&ticker=WYNN,MGM,LVS,PENN,MPEL,MTN,ASCA,BYD,MCRI,IS LE,WOLF,RIV,LGN,NYNY,CNTY,FLL,UWN,ILX,GH.UN.CA,TNA .CA,MCG.CA&how=2&sortby=26&qsp=full&title=Resorts+&+Casinos&reverse=1&gclid=COzns-v965kCFdxM5Qod_n4nRg)

[Relwob Owner]

I think the most appropriate comparison for a trend line is the whole gambling and resort sector of the market. look at mgm and lvs almost as bad

list of most casino and resort stocks (http://www.profitquotes.com/cgi/?a=screen&ticker=WYNN,MGM,LVS,PENN,MPEL,MTN,ASCA,BYD,MCRI,IS LE,WOLF,RIV,LGN,NYNY,CNTY,FLL,UWN,ILX,GH.UN.CA,TNA .CA,MCG.CA&how=2&sortby=26&qsp=full&title=Resorts+&+Casinos&reverse=1&gclid=COzns-v965kCFdxM5Qod_n4nRg)


Good point....PENN gaming was at around 60 not too long ago and is now at 28.....they did have a potential sale pending that fell through that led to the drop, but still backs up your thought....

[Bobzilla]

I think the most appropriate comparison for a trend line is the whole gambling and resort sector of the market. look at mgm and lvs almost as bad

list of most casino and resort stocks (http://www.profitquotes.com/cgi/?a=screen&ticker=WYNN,MGM,LVS,PENN,MPEL,MTN,ASCA,BYD,MCRI,IS LE,WOLF,RIV,LGN,NYNY,CNTY,FLL,UWN,ILX,GH.UN.CA,TNA .CA,MCG.CA&how=2&sortby=26&qsp=full&title=Resorts+&+Casinos&reverse=1&gclid=COzns-v965kCFdxM5Qod_n4nRg)


Very true. So much for the tired axiom of gaming being recessionary proof.

[Watcher]

There are similarities and differences between the major casino stocks and MAGNA...

The major casinos are getting triple-whammied by the current economic climate. They were in the midst of major construction projects spanning three sectors that are getting hammered: casino gaming, high-end retail, luxury real estate.

MAGNA just can't handle their debt covenants because they have no money. LVS was in a similar situation with regards to paying back one of their loans, but Aldeson wrote them a personal check.

[CryingForTheHorses]

To all those who said Magna knew what they were doing and Magna was good for racing when they started buying up all those tracks...what do you have to say for yourself and Frank now?

http://www.paceadvantage.com/images/Magna.gif


Geeze PA!!!!...Its VERY easy to sit at your computer and laugh and scorn this man...He really did want better racing and to makeit better for the bettors but the plan I guess went astray..While Im not defending him,I think its very sad at the state of the bettors who are happy to see this man lose millions in a game he himself participates and supports to the fullest.All he did was try to make it better!!!

[andymays]

I think Stronach based everthing on the Casino stuff at his Racetracks. He thought it would come together quickly and it didn't.

He spent a lot of money remodeling tracks, some say for the worse.

Ego can get you in trouble sometimes. He took a shot and lost big!

[PaceAdvantage]

Geeze PA!!!!...Its VERY easy to sit at your computer and laugh and scorn this man...He really did want better racing and to makeit better for the bettors but the plan I guess went astray..While Im not defending him,I think its very sad at the state of the bettors who are happy to see this man lose millions in a game he himself participates and supports to the fullest.All he did was try to make it better!!!I am neither laughing or scorning. Just wondering what all those who defended the man when people such as myself were saying what he's doing ISN'T good for racing think now that his company has gone bankrupt.

Where did you get that I was laughing?

[Relwob Owner]

I am neither laughing or scorning. Just wondering what all those who defended the man when people such as myself were saying what he's doing ISN'T good for racing think now that his company has gone bankrupt.

Where did you get that I was laughing?


PA,

You defend IEAH in every post....didnt Stronach do with tracks what they are doing with race horses? Overpaying and thinking they can change the sport....you take it very personally for some reason when people dare to critique IEAH but you are allowed to gloat about the demise of Stronach and point out how right you were....doesnt seem to be too consistent on your part IMHO.....the same chart you started this thread with could probably applied to the performance of IEAH in the last year as well......

[CryingForTheHorses]

I am neither laughing or scorning. Just wondering what all those who defended the man when people such as myself were saying what he's doing ISN'T good for racing think now that his company has gone bankrupt.

Where did you get that I was laughing?

Sorry PA,I should have clarified....Im talking about all the posts from all these Magna threads...Many different posts relating to the demise of Magna...

[rrbauer]

To all those who said Magna knew what they were doing and Magna was good for racing when they started buying up all those tracks...what do you have to say for yourself and Frank now?

http://www.paceadvantage.com/images/Magna.gif

About the same as those who said that there was no recession!

[rgustafson]

Good post RO.

Most people who are serious customers of this game are men in their 40s, 50's and older. Most serious bettors and big bettors have had over 10 years of serious experience betting and handicapping. What you learned was basically tossed out the window. You had to reinvent the wheel if you want to bet on synthetic. I think Cushion, Tapeta and Pro Ride are more consistent and at least somewhat handicappable, but the Polytrack is a joke.

Spending all this money on synthetic surfaces is like clogging up a hole in the boat with your finger. Sure, the water will stop pouring into the bottom of the boat for the time being, but at some point, you're going to have to really fix that hole. Like RO said, there are better ways to make racing safer without messing with all the years of experience that horseplayers of today have and need in order to wager large sums of money.

I know, some of you will say that great players can adapt to anything, but my response to that is, "why should we". As far as i was concerned, nothing was broke, i didn't need it fixed. I was doing just fine on regular dirt tracks and oh by the way, regular dirt has been around for hundreds of years and now all of a sudden it needs fixing?

There was no problems at all in the heyday of horse racing as far as surfaces were concerned, Horses raced every 4 days it seemed. Now, we have so many commercial stallions who have conformation problems and they're passing these bad legs onto their sons and daughters. That is the problem, along with illegal drugs and too many trainers who are just in the game to cash bets, cheat a bit and win big purses. All that stuff is the problem. The dirt wasn't the problem, its all the other stuff.

And now, the bettors have to suffer betting on this poly crap. Thank god there are still some real racetracks out there that haven't fallen into the synthetic trap.

Synthetic surfaces produce synthetic results.

Sometimes I really wonder what some of you guys are whining about. In 2008, there were 87 race tracks that held thoroughbred race meets of which 79 raced on dirt surfaces. Surely this should give you enough betting opportunities on those "real racetracks" out there.

[CBedo]

Not a pretty picture. That stock fell to earth like a well trimmed rock. If you have a chance you might be interested in Andrew Beyer's latest column which can be viewed at the DRF website, and I would guess in today's DRF. He wrote about Halsey Minor and that young entrepreneur's passion for fixing the game of racing and willingness to buy all of Magna Entertainment's debt. I have mixed feelings. On one hand it's good that new energy and money might be on the way to help sustain and possibly improve the sport. On the other hand Minor seems, in some ways, like a younger version of Frank Stronach. I'm weary of self-made millionaires with strong egos and arrogance who wish to enter the picture and impose their personal vision of how things should be, effectively ramming it down the throats of all with little room for input from others. Seems like we've been down that road before. Hopefully any strategy and vision that Minor may bring to the game in the future will be more tenable than what Mr. Stronach delivered.
I see no reason to be weary. The definition of en entreprneur includes self-made and definitely includes ego. All my years on Wall Street, I never met a successful entrepreneur who didn't think he could conquer the world (but also understood the work it would take). Plus, I like the fact that Minor has a technology background, and seems to understand the balance between bricks & mortar and online customers bases.

And......how can he make it worse after what Stronach has done (hope I just didn't jinx us all!, lol).

I'm rooting for him.

[Relwob Owner]

Sometimes I really wonder what some of you guys are whining about. In 2008, there were 87 race tracks that held thoroughbred race meets of which 79 raced on dirt surfaces. Surely this should give you enough betting opportunities on those "real racetracks" out there.


It isnt about finding betting opportunities....it is about the fact that this surface has had a serious impact on the sport as a whole and Im not sure it is a good one....like, isnt it great to have a Breeders Cup Classic that turns into a turf race? Isnt it great that horses in the Derby wont have run on traditional dirt? It was promised to be much safer and cost a ton to put in.....it hasnt gone well and many of the surfaces have had huge problems....


Plus, synthetics have been installed on popular racetracks such as Keeneland and Santa Anita and of ocurse that is going to impact betting, as those are popular places for people to bet

[rgustafson]

I should have directed my post to "I'm Riled Up" who I quoted instead of "some of you guys" since for him it was pretty much directed to how it affected his betting.:)

[Relwob Owner]

I should have directed my post to "I'm Riled Up" who I quoted instead of "some of you guys" since for him it was pretty much directed to how it affected his betting.:)


I gotcha....betting wise, it is kind of tough but I dont worry about that aspect as much....it is another factor but I have had some decent success getting decent value when people over or under estimate the effect on certain horses.

[Imriledup]

Sometimes I really wonder what some of you guys are whining about. In 2008, there were 87 race tracks that held thoroughbred race meets of which 79 raced on dirt surfaces. Surely this should give you enough betting opportunities on those "real racetracks" out there.

So Cal was my specialty until they knocked me down. I won't bet at a lot of the other places because the pools are too small.

[Track Collector]

Sometimes I really wonder what some of you guys are whining about. In 2008, there were 87 race tracks that held thoroughbred race meets of which 79 raced on dirt surfaces. Surely this should give you enough betting opportunities on those "real racetracks" out there.

How would YOU feel if any of the following happened to you?
(a) Your profitable dirt angles which worked on a particular dirt track no longer work now that the track has a synthetic surface.
(b) You have been unable to identify new, profitable angles which work on synthetic tracks, or that the new angles you have identified are less profitable than the older dirt angles.
(c) Your profitability from the remaining dirt tracks is reduced due to the higher pool dilution your specific wager causes. Note: When studying pool sizes, most of the synthetic tracks are near the top of the list, whereas many of the remaining dirt tracks are significantly smaller.

It is only human nature to be a little upset when previously profitable angles are taken away from you. I agree that successful handicappers make good adjustments to their methods, but that does not guarantee that the adjustments will yield as much profit as the pre-adjustment methods.

[andymays]

How would YOU feel if any of the following happened to you?
(a) Your profitable dirt angles which worked on a particular dirt track no longer work now that the track has a synthetic surface.
(b) You have been unable to identify new, profitable angles which work on synthetic tracks, or that the new angles you have identified are less profitable than the older dirt angles.
(c) Your profitability from the remaining dirt tracks is reduced due to the higher pool dilution your specific wager causes. Note: When studying pool sizes, most of the synthetic tracks are near the top of the list, whereas many of the remaining dirt tracks are significantly smaller.

It is only human nature to be a little upset when previously profitable angles are taken away from you. I agree that successful handicappers make good adjustments to their methods, but that does not guarantee that the adjustments will yield as much profit as the pre-adjustment methods.

Couldn't agree more Track Collector. There is a reason that the handle trend for most one mile ovals with dirt surfaces has been going up and the tracks with synthetics have had declining handle.

Go Oaklawn, Monmouth .......

[PaceAdvantage]

Let's take this on point by point:

You defend IEAH in every postFalse.didnt Stronach do with tracks what they are doing with race horses? Overpaying and thinking they can change the sport....False. IEAH, as far as I can tell, doesn't think they can change the sport. Where do you get that? They might be trying to run a different type of syndicate, but they aren't out to change the sport...you take it very personally for some reason when people dare to critique IEAHAgain, false. Don't fall under the misguided notion that just because I write about something, that it is near and dear to my heart. I really couldn't care less whether IEAH makes out big or goes out of business tomorrow.but you are allowed to gloat about the demise of Stronach and point out how right you werePosting a stock chart and asking for an explanation from those who held Stronach out to be some sort of savior or genius is gloating?....doesnt seem to be too consistent on your part IMHO.....I would argue that your opinion is not correct.the same chart you started this thread with could probably applied to the performance of IEAH in the last year as well......Oh, I seriously doubt that. Perhaps you should do a little research on Magna.

[PaceAdvantage]

Interesting. I'm not sure what the market capitalization category Magna Entertainment would fall into. Just wondering if the Russell 2000 index would be a more appropriate comparison as far as a trend line is concerned.It wouldn't matter since the chart is based on percentage moves in price.

[Relwob Owner]

I see no reason to be weary. The definition of en entreprneur includes self-made and definitely includes ego. All my years on Wall Street, I never met a successful entrepreneur who didn't think he could conquer the world (but also understood the work it would take). Plus, I like the fact that Minor has a technology background, and seems to understand the balance between bricks & mortar and online customers bases.

And......how can he make it worse after what Stronach has done (hope I just didn't jinx us all!, lol).

I'm rooting for him.


I am too...however, after reading that article, I am very skeptical. Horse racing doesnt need someone who is a great entrepreneur....it needs someone with experience in horse racing and a desire to change and improve things and a humble, patient way of doing it....when someone brings an arrogance from a different field with them they usually end up failing....kind of like this guy named Frank Stronach............

[PaceAdvantage]

About the same as those who said that there was no recession!If this was directed at me (and it was, according to your quote), then all I have to say is you are dead wrong. A search of off-topic posts will reveal that I had plenty to say when confronted with exactly the same type of question.

[Relwob Owner]

Let's take this on point by point:

False.False. IEAH, as far as I can tell, doesn't think they can change the sport. Where do you get that? They might be trying to run a different type of syndicate, but they aren't out to change the sport...Again, false. Don't fall under the misguided notion that just because I write about something, that it is near and dear to my heart. I really couldn't care less whether IEAH makes out big or goes out of business tomorrow.Posting a stock chart and asking for an explanation from those who held Stronach out to be some sort of savior or genius is gloating?I would argue that your opinion is not correct.Oh, I seriously doubt that. Perhaps you should do a little research on Magna.

My counterpoints:

If you dont care about IEAH so much then why attack a guy who started a thread questioning IEAH, asking why the guy criticizes IEAH so much and asking if they "pissed in his coffee"


If you dont care about IEAH why ask that poster who will be around in 5 years, IEAH or him?...a strange question and one that indicates you do care about IEAH and if they will be around.

If you dont see that posting the results and the general tone was gloating, there is nothing I can do to change your mind....you asked where everyone was who was wrong and essentiall patted yourself on tha back, saying "Told you so"....posting a thread congratulating yourself on being right and searching for those who were wrong seems like gloating to me.


I wasnt saying Magna and IEAH are the same...just that they are both entities that claim to be changing things and being ones that will elicit emotional responses----what is inconsistent to me is that you feel like you have the right to have opinions on them but then hammer people (I.E. asking if they had their coffee pissed in) that have similar opinions about similar entities...does not seem consistent to me.


If you cant see the similarities between Magna and Stronach, I cant make them any clearer....they both have more money than brains in my opinion, they both had little experience before coming into the game and they both have made many questionable decisions.

I dont need to do any research about Magna...I know they failed....I just find it interesting that you have such quick, sharp, pointed responses to anyone who dares to criticize IEAH and then you have similar emotional takes on Magna and Stronach....

[PaceAdvantage]

Jeez man, I post one little thread on Magna...:lol:

sonnyp continually attacks IEAH, and I always stand up for those being continually attacked. That's the way I work around here.

I defended Lukas when attacking him was in vogue, I defended Dutrow last year regarding his pre-game commentary, that's the way I roll.

Interestingly, I never defended Magna when they were being attacked. Kind of goes against my general philosophy of defending the often-attacked...maybe I just know a dead pig when I see one...I guess Lukas, IEAH and Dutrow have some redeeming qualities, while Magna has/had zero in my book.

Like DanG once said, I'm probably a frustrated defense-attorney at heart. That's why everyone loves me here...:lol:

[Relwob Owner]

Jeez man, I post one little thread on Magna...:lol:

sonnyp continually attacks IEAH, and I always stand up for those being continually attacked. That's the way I work around here.

I defended Lukas when attacking him was in vogue, I defended Dutrow last year regarding his pre-game commentary, that's the way I roll.

Interestingly, I never defended Magna when they were being attacked. Kind of goes against my general philosophy of defending the often-attacked...maybe I just know a dead pig when I see one...I guess Lukas, IEAH and Dutrow have some redeeming qualities, while Magna has/had zero in my book.

Like DanG once said, I'm probably a frustrated defense-attorney at heart. That's why everyone loves me here...:lol:


Shoot man, no biggie either way...I was just surprised at how riled up you got but didnt realize sonnyp had complained so much and that got you going...:)

Well, you must be good at defendiong people because I used to be pretty anti Dutrow and still am kind of that way but as my Dad and I were talking horses today, I found myself defending Dutrow....I blamed it on the forum:):)

[slewis]

My favorite pic of the week. (http://gregcalabrese.blogspot.com/2009/04/sentiment-shared-by-many-horseplayers.html)

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/1a/fullj.bb5049d8e6a705cbc12d5b0e38d40f81/bb5049d8e6a705cbc12d5b0e38d40f81-getty-84748710kd021_santa_anita_d.jpg

That is sensational!!!! (and true)

[InsideThePylons-MW]

False. IEAH, as far as I can tell, doesn't think they can change the sport.

If you asked the IEAH guys while hooked up to a lie detector "do you think you will change the sport" If they answer NO, the thing would start violently clanking.

[rgustafson]

So Cal was my specialty until they knocked me down. I won't bet at a lot of the other places because the pools are too small.

Well, ok then. In my opinion, it is persons such as yourself who specialized in the SoCal circuit are the ones with a legitimate gripe. As for some others: Want big pools? Become proficient with the NYRA tracks. Lots of money there. Loved early speed on the rail at Keeneland? Good for you, but what did you do the other 46 weeks when Keeneland was dark? I just think that there are so many other options out there. a player should be able to avoid synthetics and still find places to bet and things (angles?) that still work for them.