I think there was some funny business going on in this race with two jockeys

[kyle2227]

:mad: I am kind of disgruntled. The 4th race of Charles Town tonight came :2: :5:. Well I had played a $10 exacta :5: over the :1: :2:. Coming down the stretch it looks to me as if the 5 would have easily gone by the 2 but it looks like the jock on the 5 is pulling the horses head sideways to slow him down. And immediately after the race you can see the 5 and 2 talking for more then just a quick second. Is it just me or does it look like some shenanigans may have been going on in this race? I may just be paranoid and I can't find a race replay to watch the race again. But I'm almost certain and the guy who was sitting next to me agrees that it looks like the jock on the 5 was pulling the horses head sideways to slow him down.

[DanG]

Is it just me or does it look like some shenanigans may have been going on in this race? I may just be paranoid and I can't find a race replay to watch the race again. But I'm almost certain and the guy who was sitting next to me agrees that it looks like the jock on the 5 was pulling the horses head sideways to slow him down.
From the YouBet replay;

He was trying to get the horse to switch leads mid-stretch. Nothing nefarious going on imo. I think we can agree Kyle; if these guys are playing games when 10k claimers are running for a 21k pot they should all have padded cells.

BTW: What a head-on replay that was. :confused: The stretch cam was used for the start, but not for the stretch run. Cute idea! That tower shot entering the far turn is the look we want in the lane. I can only assume the video director was a gate scratch! :bang:

[Relwob Owner]

:mad: I am kind of disgruntled. The 4th race of Charles Town tonight came :2: :5:. Well I had played a $10 exacta :5: over the :1: :2:. Coming down the stretch it looks to me as if the 5 would have easily gone by the 2 but it looks like the jock on the 5 is pulling the horses head sideways to slow him down. And immediately after the race you can see the 5 and 2 talking for more then just a quick second. Is it just me or does it look like some shenanigans may have been going on in this race? I may just be paranoid and I can't find a race replay to watch the race again. But I'm almost certain and the guy who was sitting next to me agrees that it looks like the jock on the 5 was pulling the horses head sideways to slow him down.

First, let me tell you I am the first to suspect anything strange, esp at CT....However, that one didnt look too bad....looked like the horse was lugging in pretty badly and Acosta was trying to keep him straight....didnt see the head on but from the pan, it looked clear....I think the chatting btw the jocks was because the 5 may have hit the 5...not sure.

[andymays]

Didn't see anything!

When Jockeys pull stuff it usually has to do with the early pace. For example in California one Jockey Agent can have two journeyman jockeys. It used to be that a Jock Agent could only have one journeyman and an apprentice. Don't know about other parts of the country.

What happens in a 6 horse field when 1 Jock Agent has two Jocks that need the lead? Do you think they ever get in a duel?

I have a big problem with one Agent having two Jorneyman in a short field. At the very least they should put the agents name in brackets next to the Jockeys name because it is a hidden entry!

This is one area that the public could be better served!

[kyle2227]

ok thanks for info guys I feel better now

[Relwob Owner]

Didn't see anything!

When Jockeys pull stuff it usually has to do with the early pace. For example in California one Jockey Agent can have two journeyman jockeys. It used to be that a Jock Agent could only have one journeyman and an apprentice. Don't know about other parts of the country.

What happens in a 6 horse field when 1 Jock Agent has two Jocks that need the lead? Do you think they ever get in a duel?

I have a big problem with one Agent having two Jorneyman in a short field. At the very least they should put the agents name in brackets next to the Jockeys name because it is a hidden entry!

This is one area that the public could be better served!


Your takes are intriguing....I have to question one thing, though....on other threads you defend Mullins and in this instance you seem to have some conspiracy types of theories that dont seem to jibe with your defense of Mullins......

I dont think it is a hidden entry at all since there are two owners but happen to be the same agent....the person who should be most worried about jockeys colluding(sp?) in this way is the owner of each horse and I think that he/she would be on top of things enough in order to see anything sketchy....it would be interesting to get a jockeys agents' view of your speculations

[andymays]

I've been playing for a long time and have had some great success and some really tough beats along the way.

When you handicap the races you need to make judgements on your statistics (racing form) and observations (video replays). The Players who bet on the obvious things usually end up on favorites and that is a recipe for perpetual failure. Usually it's the little things that help you hit a big one and handicapping the pace and considering Jockeys with the same agents who could affect the pace are part of the judgements I make.

I will say that this angle is almost useless on Pro Ride and some other synthetic surfaces because the pace doesn't seem to matter as much.

I usually have a different opinion than most but remember the public (betting favorite) is wrong 2 out of 3 times.

[andymays]

If you look on my other post about the Jockey Agents you will see Vic Stauffer has responded.

He calls races at Hollywood Park and is the Agent for Joel Rosario. He does a great job at both and think he's won an eclipse award for some type of documentary, I think on Pincay. Vic is good at everything he does and I have a high opinion of him!

I'm sure my post on the Agent stuff pisses him off a little but I feel pretty confident in my observations over the years!

[Patrick Bateman]

I just watched the race and didn't see any wrongdoing. I had my cat Chester watch it as well and he agrees with you. I'll have to take another look-see; Chester is usually right about these things.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_g7KcbMxmLEU/R5E2Yk_YZ4I/AAAAAAAADFY/_m0pJ7oocXI/s400/TinfoilHat.jpg

[andymays]

You and Chester look credible to me and anyone that likes animals like Chester must be right!

I didn't see anything in the race in question either!

[proximity]

I just watched the race and didn't see any wrongdoing. I had my cat Chester watch it as well and he agrees with you. I'll have to take another look-see; Chester is usually right about these things.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_g7KcbMxmLEU/R5E2Yk_YZ4I/AAAAAAAADFY/_m0pJ7oocXI/s400/TinfoilHat.jpg



you sure chester doesn't want you locked up in a cell with mr paragallo? :D

[Relwob Owner]

I just watched the race and didn't see any wrongdoing. I had my cat Chester watch it as well and he agrees with you. I'll have to take another look-see; Chester is usually right about these things.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_g7KcbMxmLEU/R5E2Yk_YZ4I/AAAAAAAADFY/_m0pJ7oocXI/s400/TinfoilHat.jpg


I would trust Chester no matter what...he should run for the HBPA at Ctown

[Tom]

....it would be interesting to get a jockeys agents' view of your speculations

...it would be interesting to see some hard data instead of opinion, too.
How often does it happen, how often is there really a duel, how often doesn't suspiciously not challenge.......you know facts. My experience is when most horsey sayings are put to the test, it just isn't the case.

[andymays]

Vic Stauffer (Rosarios Agent) posted earlier and thinks I'm totally wrong as do most here!

I posted this to stimulate some debate and got more than I bargained for!

It was on the other post I made about Jockey Agents having 2 Journeyman Jocks!

[proximity]

I would trust Chester no matter what...he should run for the HBPA at Ctown

i sense that chester may be overqualified for that... :)

[Relwob Owner]

i sense that chester may be overqualified for that... :)


:lol: :lol:

[Rookies]

In 2008, I saw not one but BOTH Jockeys ( in the lead mounts) stand up 50 yards from the finish line ! In 40 years, I think I've seen everything during my career at the races. IMO, way worse before the installation of mutiple cameras, especially in the back stretch and drug testing.

Still, a lotta nonsense goes on and with all component parts- jocks, trainers, owners, bettors, track perosnnel, etc.

[Relwob Owner]

In 2008, I saw not one but BOTH Jockeys ( in the lead mounts) stand up 50 yards from the finish line ! In 40 years, I think I've seen everything during my career at the races. IMO, way worse before the installation of mutiple cameras, especially in the back stretch and drug testing.

Still, a lotta nonsense goes on and with all component parts- jocks, trainers, owners, bettors, track perosnnel, etc.


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:


It is a circus in my opinion.....The way I see it, PENN Gaming owns it and has no interest in the racing side of things. So, there is almost no supervision at all on the racing side of things, no accountability and no reason for anyone to do anything to fix things.....anyone who does speak up or who tries to change things is jeopardizing the status quo and is viewed in a negative manner.


It is quite a shame because if they passed table games(the horsemen had a big role in not passing this) and tightened up racing in any way, it could be a really cool place to go for everything that a gambler could want.

[Nevermore19]

There are great people on the track, both officials and horse people. But there are a lot that are just too greedy and lack the foresight to try and actually improve the game at CT and abroad *cough* HBPA *cough*

And about the stretch shens. - I know the racing officials cracked down big time on jocks pulling up before the finish line a year or so ago. There have been few main jockeys suspended recently so I would assume a lot of inexperienced or less-skilled riders are getting opportunities, not to mention Travis Dunkleburger sustained a neck injury, so there is another top rider whoms mounts have to be filled elsewhere. So if you see a rider do something that makes you scratch your head, that may have something to do with it.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/50152/charles-town-suspends-official-jockeys

I'm new here, so I'll give a little back ground. I grew up on a horse farm, my father was a former jockey and I've loved horse racing for as long as I've been breathing. I'm not much of a handicapper as I am just a fan of the horses and jockeys who risk their lives every day. So if I gripe its usually about people getting an unfair shake, or safety issues. I want this sport to not only survive, but to thrive.