Horse Racing and Football. What???

[andymays]

Just trying to make a point here so bear with me.

In certain parts of the country we can bet on Football games right?

Football Player A has allergies so before the game he takes an antihistamine.

Quarterback A has tendonitis so he gets a shot of cortisone before the game.

Running Back A is tired so in between plays he puts on an oxygen mask.

Lineman A has a bad back so at halftime he gets ultrasound and takes a painkiller.

Steroids aside does anyone see my point?

Should this stuff be allowed in a game where people bet their money?

Isn't some of this stuff bad for the people who do it or take it?

[Quagmire]

None of what you mentioned above is prohibited by the rules of the NFL.

Also without legal gambling racing would be finished while the NFL gets no money from legal gambling,

[ezrabrooks]

The NFL might not receive money directly from gambling...but, there is no doubt that gambling drives the NFL bus. The entire rise of NFL popularity goes back to gambling.

Ez

[andymays]

None of what you mentioned above is prohibited by the rules of the NFL.

Also without legal gambling racing would be finished while the NFL gets no money from legal gambling,


Shouldn't we care about people as much as we care about Horses? Maybe we should change the rules in the NFL!

Shouldn't the Trainers and Physicians for these athletes be sanctioned, suspended or fined in some way.

Just making a point

[Quagmire]

Shouldn't we care about people as much as we care about Horses? Maybe we should change the rules in the NFL!

Shouldn't the Trainers and Physicians for these athletes be sanctioned, suspended or fined in some way.

Just making a point

Players have the option of taking painkillers or antihistimines, horses don't.

[andymays]

Players have the option of taking painkillers or antihistimines, horses don't.


Not if they want to keep their jobs. They have to perform or go away!

[Quagmire]

The NFL might not receive money directly from gambling...but, there is no doubt that gambling drives the NFL bus. The entire rise of NFL popularity goes back to gambling.

Ez

I agree thats why I mentioned legal gambling, which probably amounts to 1/100th of what is actually wagered on the games

[Quagmire]

Not if they want to keep their jobs. They have to perform or go away!


Not necessarily. The Chargers kept Merriman after he decided on surgery rather than playing on painkillers.

[andymays]

Not necessarily. The Chargers kept Merriman after he decided on surgery rather than playing on painkillers.


That works for a few stars but what about the other 99%?

[rastajenk]

I get the feeling this thread is going nowhere.

[Grits]

Shouldn't we care about people as much as we care about Horses? Maybe we should change the rules in the NFL!

Shouldn't the Trainers and Physicians for these athletes be sanctioned, suspended or fined in some way.

Just making a point

But your point is futile, as your primary concern is Jeff Mullins, it is not changing the sport of football. Everyone DOES care about humans as much as they care--more than, actually--about horses.

Still, horses are animals, and they cannot speak, and easily tell you, where it hurts, or "I need a hit of oxygen." Again, you ARE DEALING WITH AN ANIMAL, not a human who can make choice. The rules are made for the benefit of protecting THE ANIMAL.

Attempting to challenge the rules and regulations of the NFL against the rules and regulations of each state's governing body that has a thoroughbred racetrack is utterly useless.

You're discussing apples and oranges now. Totally.

How many more threads are you going to create for Mullins benefit?

[Quagmire]

I'd imagine it depends on their contract situation and would be their choice to make.

[Grits]

Quagmire, I don't mean this unkindly, but you sir, are in the middle of a quagmire.:faint:

I'd imagine it depends on their contract situation and would be their choice to make.

[andymays]

I get the feeling this thread is going nowhere.


With a "buzz kill" statement like that you're probably right.

Do you have a real point?

[andymays]

But your point is futile, as your primary concern is Jeff Mullins, it is not changing the sport of football. Everyone DOES care about humans as much as they care--more than, actually--about horses.

Still, horses are animals, and they cannot speak, and easily tell you, where it hurts, or "I need a hit of oxygen." Again, you ARE DEALING WITH AN ANIMAL, not a human who can make choice. The rules are made for the benefit of protecting THE ANIMAL.

Attempting to challenge the rules and regulations of the NFL against the rules and regulations of each state's governing body that has a thoroughbred racetrack is utterly useless.

You're discussing apples and oranges now. Totally.

How many more threads are you going to create for Mullins benefit?


This is the first thread or main topic I've put up in this forum.

It seems to be getting a big reaction so far. Isn't that the point of being here?

[Quagmire]

Quagmire, I don't mean this unkindly, but you sir, are in the middle of a quagmire.:faint:


Thanks Grits. :D

[Relwob Owner]

This is the first thread or main topic I've put up in this forum.

It seems to be getting a big reaction so far. Isn't that the point of being here?


Something to think about....just because you got a lot of reaction doesnt make it a good thread in a lot of people's opinions(mine included)....the thread started with a concept of how human athletes take legal medications....I think your thread is getting a lot of responses because of the fact that it doesnt make a lot of sense, rather than being an intriguing topic...also, I think it may belong on the sports side since it focuses on general gambling and medication rules for sports.

Also, given your opinions on the Mullins thread, this one can easily be seen as a vehicle to further your opinions by comparing what medications humans get to horses, which is, as another poster mentioned, like comparing apples to oranges.

[Relwob Owner]

Thanks Grits. :D

Anyone remember Draynay from a few weeks ago? I think we could have a copycat poster.....

[andymays]

I think the point of a forum is to have a debate. That's what makes it fun.

I think a "club" for likeminded people is boring.

If you don't like the thread that's cool.

If you don't like my opinion that's cool too.

I have to say though that you don't know me or who I am so if you feel the need to move in a "get personal" direction that wouldn't be too cool!

[Relwob Owner]

I think the point of a forum is to have a debate. That's what makes it fun.

I think a "club" for likeminded people is boring.

If you don't like the thread that's cool.

If you don't like my opinion that's cool too.

I have to say though that you don't know me or who I am so if you feel the need to move in a "get personal" direction that wouldn't be too cool!


Not doing that at all....just speculating because there have been similar posters that have thrown out similar types of threads....nothing about it is personal at all and I agree that getting personal isnt cool and I was just making a comparison.

[OTM Al]

Football players are pumped full of all kinds of meds, legal and otherwise. Always have been. They take their toll. You see plenty of old time baseball players come out on a regular basis, but considering how many more men have played football over the same period, one wonders, where they are. They die early and suffer from crippling injuries and brain damage from concussions. Top it off with how poorly these retirees have been treated while their sport makes billions, I will never be a true fan of this game. The football player, unless a quarterback or a few key offensive players, is a slab of meat, nameless and faceless and easily replaced and forgotten.

But yet this is being sold as the most popular sport in the US. It markets booze, boobs, and violence in what is supposed to be a family friendly package and will in no way admit to the massive level of gambling that occurs on its games. One heck of a business model....

[DanG]

Football players are pumped full of all kinds of meds, legal and otherwise. Always have been. They take their toll. You see plenty of old time baseball players come out on a regular basis, but considering how many more men have played football over the same period, one wonders, where they are. They die early and suffer from crippling injuries and brain damage from concussions. Top it off with how poorly these retirees have been treated while their sport makes billions, I will never be a true fan of this game. The football player, unless a quarterback or a few key offensive players, is a slab of meat, nameless and faceless and easily replaced and forgotten.

But yet this is being sold as the most popular sport in the US. It markets booze, boobs, and violence in what is supposed to be a family friendly package and will in no way admit to the massive level of gambling that occurs on its games. One heck of a business model....
Hard to argue any of your points aren’t true Al;

While I much prefer baseball, I’m a football hypocrite; I watch (much less often however) and have owned season tickets but I always enjoyed George Will’s quote about the sport.

Football combines the two worst things about America: it is violence punctuated by committee meetings. ~ George Will

[SMOO]

The NFL might not receive money directly from gambling...but, there is no doubt that gambling drives the NFL bus. The entire rise of NFL popularity goes back to gambling.

Ez

:ThmbUp:

And this includes NFL approved gambling on fantasy football, most which includes money changing hands.

[andymays]

Then we agree.

We should have more rules in the NFL to keep players safe and protect the intregrity of the game and the people who bet on those games!

[OTM Al]

Hard to argue any of your points aren’t true Al;

While I much prefer baseball, I’m a football hypocrite; I watch (much less often however) and have owned season tickets but I always enjoyed George Will’s quote about the sport.


Is that George Will or Carlin? I thought that was part of Carlin's great Baseball vs Football bit.

I'll admit I watched the Giants the last couple years. I started because I decided I liked Eli Manning and thought the media was being ridiculously cruel to him. It does kind of suck you in if you get to know who the players are (sports are forever the best reality TV), but still it is just something to put on on a Sunday when there is no baseball more than anything. I used to love the Bears growing up and will always defend Walter Payton as the best ever (another that died young.....) but after they finally won I lost interest.

[Tom]

Shouldn't we care about people as much as we care about Horses? Maybe we should change the rules in the NFL!

Shouldn't the Trainers and Physicians for these athletes be sanctioned, suspended or fined in some way.

Just making a point

What a cheap way to justify cheating in racing. How low do you go anyway?
Here's the scoop - you might want to take notes.

The entire racing industry is based on betting. No matter what crap you hear from this horseman and that horseman, betting supports the game. Take away betting and it goes away. Other sports have noting to do with gambling. When a sports figure uses drugs, it is HIS choice. His ultimate problems are his own choosing. Horses have no choice, and they are at the mercy of sick, sub-human garbage stealing money by pretending to be legit. They are not, they are lying little thieves who deserve no mercy. The game is better off when it takes out its garbage. To bad racing doesn't have a trainer version of the "killer."

The bull*** many short cut trainers take with horses is deplorable. Horses are mistreated, used up and then left to whatever cruel fate befalls them. These trainers are the scum of the earth and those who supports them are the same. Those who seek to justify it look up to them. Capiche?
The penalty for cheating is far too soft in all cases. The offender offenders should be held financially responsible - fine them the entire amount of the pools they tarnished and then a lifetime ban from racing. No chance of reinstatement. Racing will not suffer without the so-called super trainer who could not, without cheating, train flies to land on a pile of poop, and I think you know who I am referring to here.

[andymays]

What a cheap way to justify cheating in racing. How low do you go anyway?
Here's the scoop - you might want to take notes.

The entire racing industry is based on betting. No matter what crap you hear from this horseman and that horseman, betting supports the game. Take away betting and it goes away. Other sports have noting to do with gambling.

The bull*** many short cut trainers take with horses is deplorable. Horses are mistreated, used up and then left to whatever cruel fate befalls them. These trainers are the scum of the earth and those who supports them are the same. Those who seek to justify it look up to them. Capiche?
The penalty for cheating is far too soft in all cases. The offender offenders should be held financially responsible - fine them the entire amount of the pools they tarnished and then a lifetime ban from racing. No chance of reinstatement. Racing will not suffer without the so-called super trainer who could not, without cheating, train flies to land on a pile of poop, and I think you know who I am referring to here.

Football has nothing to do with gambling? Wow! How much is bet on the Super Bowl?

[DanG]

Is that George Will or Carlin? I thought that was part of Carlin's great Baseball vs Football bit.
The quote is credited to Will; but your right it does have a Carlin ring to it.

[Quagmire]

Football has nothing to do with gambling? Wow! How much is bet on the Super Bowl?


How much of that do the NFL owners see?

[Dahoss9698]

Then we agree.

We should have more rules in the NFL to keep players safe and protect the intregrity of the game and the people who bet on those games!

You never answered.....must have forgot, no problem. What do you think should happen to Mullins? You disagreed with a suspension, so in your opinion what punishment best fits his crime?

[andymays]

How much of that do the NFL owners see?


The owners see quite a bit of money because of the added interest in Football because of Wagering on games.

A big part of their revenue comes from TV contracts (based on ratings)and selling merchandise right?

[Quagmire]

The owners see quite a bit of money because of the added interest in Football because of Wagering on games.

A big part of their revenue comes from TV contracts (based on ratings)and selling merchandise right?


How much of the money wagered on the Super Bowl do the owners see? Its not a difficult question.

[andymays]

You never answered.....must have forgot, no problem. What do you think should happen to Mullins? You disagreed with a suspension, so in your opinion what punishment best fits his crime?


He should pay a penalty according to the rules at the time of the infraction.

No more and no less?

[andymays]

How much of the money wagered on the Super Bowl do the owners see? Its not a difficult question.


Indirectly they get quite a bit of money from betting on Football because of the added interest.

Obviously they don't get money directly from wagering!

[Dahoss9698]

He should pay a penalty according to the rules at the time of the infraction.

No more and no less?

So if the rules call for a suspension you would be okay with that Draynay?

[andymays]

So if the rules call for a suspension you would be okay with that Draynay?


I would be fine with a suspension! Who is Draynay?

[Quagmire]

Indirectly they get quite a bit of money from betting on Football because of the added interest.

Obviously they don't get money directly from wagering!


So that answers your first question about whether it should be allowed.

Racetracks get money directly from gambling and are required to police it.

[andymays]

So that answers your first question about whether it should be allowed.

Racetracks get money directly from gambling and are required to police it.


I think they should police racing and people who violate the rules should be punished.

I'm just worried about the poor Football Players that nobody seems to care about!

[Quagmire]

I'm sure they appreciate your concern.

[OTM Al]

The quote is credited to Will; but your right it does have a Carlin ring to it.

Maybe it was originally Will. I'm sure I saw Carlin stick it in his bit once but much like our former President, I may be misremembering....

So in honor of this great diversion from topic, here is Carlin's routine

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor7.shtml

[SMOO]

Indirectly they get quite a bit of money from betting on Football because of the added interest.

Obviously they don't get money directly from wagering!

Yes, added ratings = millions of dollars in ad rates.

[andymays]

Yes, added ratings = millions of dollars in ad rates.


I think I'm going to faint! Thanks for some support SMOO!

[DanG]

As mentioned by Grits and others; I assume this thread is related to the on going Mullins saga.

In theory you don’t accuse people without “proof” in America although it’s done every minute in the court of public opinion. Drug development / masking will ALWAYS lead drug detection because that’s where the money is.

When Jeff Mullins burst onto the scene at Turf Paradise I don’t know of one experienced player who thought his form reversals were a “natural” event. He was claiming career faint-hearted sprinters and having them re-break in the lane like a Grandpa Munster dragster. :eek: (He sustained a 50+% off the claim rate for extended periods as I remember.)

Did he spot better then most / does he and his staff work their a$$ off / do his key owners allow him to drop when others fear the empty stall…etc…etc…affirmative. But to sit there and say he hasn’t sectioned unnatural substances running ‘unwillingly’ through these animals veins is either naïve or very wishful thinking imo.

[andymays]

As mentioned by Grits and others; I assume this thread is related to the on going Mullins saga.

In theory you don’t accuse people without “proof” in America although it’s done every minute in the court of public opinion. Drug development / masking will ALWAYS lead drug detection because that’s where the money is.

When Jeff Mullins burst onto the scene at Turf Paradise I don’t know of one experienced player who thought his form reversals were a “natural” event. He was claiming career faint-hearted sprinters and having them re-break in the lane like a Grandpa Munster dragster. :eek: (He sustained a 50+% off the claim rate for extended periods as I remember.)

Did he spot better then most / does he and his staff work their a$$ off / do his key owners allow him to drop when others fear the empty stall…etc…etc…affirmative. But to sit there and say he hasn’t sectioned unnatural substances running ‘unwillingly’ through these animals veins is either naïve or very wishful thinking imo.

How do we monitor this stuff and create rules that are fair for everyone? My point in all of this is that it becomes so overwhelming that it reaches a point where everyone just goes home and does'nt want to play anymore.

We all make judgements about Horses we bet on in the past performances, and evaluating a Trainer is part of that. Playing positive Trainer switches at 6-1 or better has been a very profitable angle for me. The biggest was an 80-1 shot at the Fair Grounds some years ago.

[Quagmire]

The rules are fair for everybody, and if you get caught breaking them before a race your horse gets scratched. Seems fair to me.

[andymays]

The rules are fair for everybody, and if you get caught breaking them before a race your horse gets scratched. Seems fair to me.


Agree 100%

[Rocklane]

re-break the lane like a Grandpa Munster dragster. :lol:

Regardless how you feel about Mullins, you got love that moustache.

[andymays]

re-break the lane like a Grandpa Munster dragster. :lol:

Regardless how you feel about Mullins, you got love that moustache.


Is it legal?