Idea for new races: last race winners only

[kenwoodallpromos]

Idea for new races: last race winners only!Idea for new races: last race winners only!

Under what race conditions would you support and bet last-race-winners only races? IMO they would be first week and middle of meet, optional claimer for males who won last race (claiming race). Cheap claimers running for purse of about 20k, mid-level claimers running for about 35k, higher level claimers running for 50k.

The reasoning would be that an all-winners race would draw PR, live attendance, and heavy bettig; And that with more race with no last-out winners would make handicapping more interesting.
What other race conditions should apply?

[Greyfox]

You might be on to something.
Whatever, your suggestion got my mind thinking.
Maybe The Breeders Cup should have races for cheap claimers?
That would give owners of cheap horses a shot at a big pay day that they'd never otherwise have.
Yes, the best cheapos from across the nation would be pitted against each other. Quirin used to say that $10,000 claimers were $ 10,000 claimers no matter what track you're at.

[kenwoodallpromos]

You might be on to something.
Whatever, your suggestion got my mind thinking.
Maybe The Breeders Cup should have races for cheap claimers?
That would give owners of cheap horses a shot at a big pay day that they'd never otherwise have.
Yes, the best cheapos from across the nation would be pitted against each other. Quirin used to say that $10,000 claimers were $ 10,000 claimers no matter what track you're at.
I follow the Claiming Crown.
Why not the most bet horses racing against each other according to purse size? Why not some races based on a claimer's career earnings?? Longer races for older closers?
Coming up with new (but competitive) Tbred races makes sense to me!! I have never heard of races based on type of runner (closer, early speed, speed rating) but worth a try.

[HUSKER55]

i like your ideas. With the economy the way it is I woul think tracks would be interested in any idea that generated money and I do believe your ideas would do just that.

Either one of you know someone to call?

I really like those ideas.

[Thomas Roulston]

Have you ever seen this condition before?

"For three-year-olds and upward (or other age/sex criteria) which have never won a race other than closed, claiming or starter" (that is to say, never won anything higher than your standard "other-than" allowance race - 1X, 2X, etc.)?

It would rank next above the highest "other-than" allowance race regularly run at that particular track (either three or four other than at most tracks) and next below a money allowance.

And you may be interested to know that there actually was one "five-other-than" allowance race run at a NYRA track - at the Aqueduct spring meet in 1980 (won by Little Lenny).

[onefast99]

The idea is good but most tracks already have a starter for horses that were in the claiming box for a certain price( starter allowance for 4 year olds and up who have started for 25k or less from jan 2007 thru April 2009). Are you saying just the winners of their last races only? How would the race fill with winners allowed only? Wouldnt optional claimers be the same thing?

[Cangamble]

Unless the purse was phenomenal, I don't see why a trainer would look put a horse in a loaded race, especially when his horse is obviously fit and in shape.
Trainers are supposed to be searching for the easiest spots for their horses keeping purse money in mind as well.

[The Judge]

the details could be worked out would have to be a larger then normal purse and maybe pay to last place. I have seen many an idea mentioned on this board first became a reality.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Unless the purse was phenomenal, I don't see why a trainer would look put a horse in a loaded race, especially when his horse is obviously fit and in shape.
Trainers are supposed to be searching for the easiest spots for their horses keeping purse money in mind as well.

"Cheap claimers running for purse of about 20k, mid-level claimers running for about 35k, higher level claimers running for 50k."
In the 1st week winners (of previous meets at other tracks) would be Required to run in a winners-only race?
Phenominal= I figured the 5k-9k horses running for 20k; 10k-18k horses running for 35k, 20k and up claimers running for 50k (stakes level purses at Laurel and simiar level tracks) would be considered "phenominal" especially if the race was a "HANDICAP" or "allowance (I still remember those!) and the horse could not be claimed away, which is what I was hoping someone would volunteer as a race condition!!
Any other ideas as to what other race conditions would have to apply to draw enough entries? No low weight limit? Line up for start without gate? Qualifying into race by length of layoff since last (win) race? Trainer of WPS finishers get more stalls, or no fee for any (horse) entries in winners-only races to run in any stakes race during meet? Allow any winners-only horse entrants to run in any turf maiden race during the meet?
_______
While I am on the subject of trainers, How about an off-topic idea of allowing an additional 2 lbs off any race in the meet if no drug violations in the previous meet for the current trainer or barn, and How about an extra 2 lbs off for any HORSE whose current trainer and owner signs a no-sale to auction or slaughter stratement for the horse?

[rrbauer]

The problem that I see is getting the races filled. Except for those circuits where there is routine shipping around (NY, NJ, Del, Phila) from track to track is that there aren't that many horses that fit the condition given the class bands that are being raced at.

[point given]

Unless the purse was phenomenal, I don't see why a trainer would look put a horse in a loaded race, especially when his horse is obviously fit and in shape.
Trainers are supposed to be searching for the easiest spots for their horses keeping purse money in mind as well.
Exactly what I was thinking. trainers look for the easiest spot for their horses ,not a difficult race with all winners of their last start. The topic of state breds competing on a national challenge was covered in another thread and lasted 1 time, the great state bred challenge in 2002 at Sam Houston. I favored a midlantic challenge where state breds from NY, NJ PA, Del,MD etc would compete for large pots for a little guys day say in November , 4 weeks after the NY bred day in mid october. This regionalized competition could be funded from all the 5-6 tracks and the horses could be vanned in easily with the competition changed from one to another of the tracks each year

[Greyfox]

This regionalized competition could be funded from all the 5-6 tracks and the horses could be vanned in easily with the competition changed from one to another of the tracks each year

Why not have several regionalized competitions across claiming ranks and bring the winners together in a National Payday. And yes, make the purse big bucks for these cheapos.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The idea is good but most tracks already have a starter for horses that were in the claiming box for a certain price( starter allowance for 4 year olds and up who have started for 25k or less from jan 2007 thru April 2009). Are you saying just the winners of their last races only? How would the race fill with winners allowed only? Wouldnt optional claimers be the same thing?
________
According to 2008 Jockey Club stats USA average field size was 8.17- so 12% of runners won their last race; I assume about 8% of active racers have won a claiming race last out.
If there are 1,000 racers on the grounds, then maybe 80 are last race claimer winners, at 8 per race that is 10 races in the next 10 weekdays of racing (assuming meets race 3-4 weekdays per week). Also, if 25 runners win claiming races in a wwek, there should be enough during meet (100) to fill winners-only the first weeks' weekday races at whatever track runs next.
So how about staging claiming-race-winners-only races the first week of each meet as a "crowd draw"? That also means and extra handicap race each weekday the first week.
I started this thread to toss around ideas to attract betting crowds to racing and I thought everyone likes to bet winners!!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Looks like including starter race winners and winners of races for females would provide many more horses at some tracks! :eek:

[startngate]

Why not have several regionalized competitions across claiming ranks and bring the winners together in a National Payday. And yes, make the purse big bucks for these cheapos.Several tracks did something similar as feeders for the Claiming Crown a while back. Didn't work very well.

According to 2008 Jockey Club stats USA average field size was 8.17- so 12% of runners won their last race; I assume about 8% of active racers have won a claiming race last out.
If there are 1,000 racers on the grounds, then maybe 80 are last race claimer winners, at 8 per race that is 10 races in the next 10 weekdays of racing (assuming meets race 3-4 weekdays per week). Also, if 25 runners win claiming races in a wwek, there should be enough during meet (100) to fill winners-only the first weeks' weekday races at whatever track runs next.
So how about staging claiming-race-winners-only races the first week of each meet as a "crowd draw"? That also means and extra handicap race each weekday the first week.
I started this thread to toss around ideas to attract betting crowds to racing and I thought everyone likes to bet winners!!The only problem with your theory is you are not factoring in all of the horses that won conditioned claiming races that still have conditions left. You've got no chance at getting them in to this kind of race to get beaten badly when they still have conditions.

Take away those horses and figure the average track has between 5 and 10 claiming 'levels', and you are down to probably 3 or 4 horses at each level. Even if you can get horses to move up or down a level to fill a race, you'd be lucky to get one to go per meet.

You'd be better off trying a meet ending series of races where a horse just had to win some time at the meet. Sort of a 'Champions' event. The races would look have to look something like this to get them to fill:

ALLOWANCE
Purse $25,000. For three year olds and upward which have won for a claiming price of $10,000 or less at Podunk Downs since 1/1/09, and have not won a race other than maiden, claiming or starter. Weight: Three Year Olds 118 lbs; Older 122 lbs. Non winners for a claiming price of $7,500 allowed 3 lbs; $5,000 6 lbs. Multiple winners preferred.
SIX FURLONGS

Basically it's sort of like a starter allowance, but requires winning instead of just starting.

[point given]

Why not have several regionalized competitions across claiming ranks and bring the winners together in a National Payday. And yes, make the purse big bucks for these cheapos.

While it would be logical, it does not work very well as someone pointed out. Sometimes a local thing is meant to stay local to an area , much like the claiming crown that they tried to move to other tracks, it worked at Canterbury and they were committed to it and wanted it to succeed by those at all levels there, instead of some committtee saying it would/should be moveable to other sites and work just as well wherever it was run.

If the midlantic tracks could work together locally for one statebred stakes day at one track a year it would be a minor miracle , and maybe they could learn from Keeneland to stagger their starting times for races so as not to run over each others races at the same time.