Shug's Philosophy

[tribecaagent]

Shug McGaughey: "Everybody wants to win the Derby, and I'm no exception, but I don't want to be wrong"

Lukas + Baffert + Zito = COULD CARE LESS IF THEY'RE WRONG

[joanied]

Shug McGaughey: "Everybody wants to win the Derby, and I'm no exception, but I don't want to be wrong"

Lukas + Baffert + Zito = COULD CARE LESS IF THEY'RE WRONG

Hmmmmm....I don't know about that...you can't know you are wrong til you give it a shot:)

[PaceAdvantage]

Shug McGaughey: "Everybody wants to win the Derby, and I'm no exception, but I don't want to be wrong"

Lukas + Baffert + Zito = COULD CARE LESS IF THEY'RE WRONGI take it you think this is a GOOD thing (Shug's philosophy that is).

[tribecaagent]

There's an old saying "scared money never wins"

I was always under the impression that fear of failure makes one destined to fail. Frankly, I was SHOCKED to read this.

[Relwob Owner]

Hmmmmm....I don't know about that...you can't know you are wrong til you give it a shot:)


I agree with ya, if you arent in the game, you will never win----granted those three trainers have each had some ups and downs but they are three pretty solid guys from my point of view.....

[PaceAdvantage]

There's an old saying "scared money never wins"

I was always under the impression that fear of failure makes one destined to fail. Frankly, I was SHOCKED to read this.Oh, I'm glad I misinterpreted your post in the beginning. You can chalk me up in your corner on this one (not that it matter much if I'm in anyone's corner....:lol: )

[tribecaagent]

I take it you think this is a GOOD thing (Shug's philosophy that is).

Maybe my prior post cleared it up, Pace. When Shug says "I don't want to be wrong", this to me insinuates fear.

[joanied]

I agree with ya, if you arent in the game, you will never win----granted those three trainers have each had some ups and downs but they are three pretty solid guys from my point of view.....

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Relwob Owner]

Maybe my prior post cleared it up, Pace. When Shug says "I don't want to be wrong", this to me insinuates fear.


wow.....could this be a thread where everyone agrees so far????...maybe its an April Fools joke....:)

[joanied]

wow.....could this be a thread where everyone agrees so far????...maybe its an April Fools joke....:)

That was funny:lol: IS it an April Fool's joke:confused: Naaaahhhhh...miracles do happen, this must be one:jump:

[Skanoochies]

Let us remember this thread after the Derby entrants are listed, and more so after the race has been run. Then we will hear the annual comments " What was that guy thinking entering that horse in the Derby? He may have kept a horse out that could have won." :D

[westny]

wow.....could this be a thread where everyone agrees so far????...maybe its an April Fools joke....:)


No April Fool here :D :D I think Shug has an excellant idea about the capibilities and talents of his racers. He has won the 2nd most BC races of all trainers. Shug trains what the Phipps breed. And 90% of those Phipps colts are never precious. I think Shug is realistic.

I think Shug is saying " He doesn't run in the Derby, if his racer has no chance to win the Derby".
Name one precious Phipps, dirt 3-yr old COLT since 2000? Saarland ? that had any chance to win the Derby? I can't think one. Shug and the Phipps are never going to the Derby just to be in it...(In a field of 20)


Imperial Council isn't even a Phipps bred. Probably the reason the colt is even on the Derby trail and into the Wood is that McG gives him a shot, after his race in the Gotham, to perform well in the Wood.

IF IC gets beat again by IWR in the Wood, even with a good ride from Prado, why race IC in the Derby if he can't beat IWR in a 7 horse field in the Wood?

[the little guy]

Precocious?

[W2G]

Probably the reason the colt is even on the Derby trail and into the Wood is that McG gives him a shot, after his race in the Gotham, to perform well in the Wood.

IF IC gets beat again by IWR in the Wood, even with a good ride from Prado, why race IC in the Derby if he can't beat IWR in a 7 horse field in the Wood?

Shug's assistant Buzz Tenney said it best: "Shug doesn't circle the first Saturday in May on his calendar."

Shug knows this horse best and has him on the Derby trail. That's good enough for me. And being runner-up to IWR again would not be a disgrace, but IC would have to look very good doing it.

[joanied]

[QUOTE=W2G]Shug's assistant Buzz Tenney said it best: "Shug doesn't circle the first Saturday in May on his calendar."

Shug knows this horse best and has him on the Derby trail. That's good enough for me. And being runner-up to IWR again would not be a disgrace, but IC would have to look very good doing it.[/QUOTE

Agreed...and well said:ThmbUp:

I have IC to win the Wood:)

[tribecaagent]

Baseball = World Series
Football = Superbowl
Hockey = Stanley Cup
American Thoroughbred Racing = Kentucky Derby

I don't know, maybe it's me......

Why doesn't he have the first Saturday in May circled? Is this race not the pinnacle?

Shug has the Peter Pan circled though......ha!
(Seeking the Gold and Sightseeing are two off the top of my head)

[westny]

Precocious?

FOR A PHIPPS RACER...YES. They usually get better at 4/5/6.

Your the expert... who was the last Phipps COLT in th last 10 years that ran on the front end and was on the the DERBY TRAIL?

[the little guy]

FOR A PHIPPS RACER...YES. They usually get better at 4/5/6.

Your the expert... who was the last Phipps COLT in th last 10 years that ran on the front end and was on the the DERBY TRAIL?



I was trying to figure out if that was the word you meant when you kept saying " precious. "

[tribecaagent]

I was trying to figure out if that was the word you meant when you kept saying " precious. "

I can't help it.......:lol:

[westny]

I was trying to figure out if that was the word you meant when you kept saying " precious. "

:lol: :lol: Ok. Precocious.

So, who was the last, fast, Phipps dirt three yr old COLT that was a Derby contender in the last 10 years?

[the little guy]

:lol: :lol: Ok. Precocious.

So, who was the last, fast, Phipps dirt three yr old COLT that was a Derby contender in the last 10 years?


You are challenging me as though I disputed this notion. What am I missing?

[W2G]

Baseball = World Series
Football = Superbowl
Hockey = Stanley Cup
American Thoroughbred Racing = Kentucky Derby

I don't know, maybe it's me......

Why doesn't he have the first Saturday in May circled? Is this race not the pinnacle?

I would argue that the BC comes closest to crowning champions in this sport. But the KD is without parallel in terms of history, hype, and fanfare.

It would be a mistake to think that Shug doesn't want or care about winning a KD, but he's not obsessed with winning it. The fact that he hasn't yet is more of a fluke than a statement about his skills or quality of stock. Easy Goer and Coronado's Quest come to mind quickly.

[tribecaagent]

I would argue that the BC comes closest to crowning champions in this sport. But the KD is without parallel in terms of history, hype, and fanfare.

It would be a mistake to think that Shug doesn't want or care about winning a KD, but he's not obsessed with winning it. The fact that he hasn't yet is more of a fluke than a statement about his skills or quality of stock. Easy Goer and Coronado's Quest come to mind quickly.

Why didn't Coronado's Quest run in the Derby?

[miesque]

Why didn't Coronado's Quest run in the Derby?

My recollection was that they bypassed the Derby with Coronado's Quest because he was a basket case (for absence of a better word) and it was decided the Derby circus atmosphere would be too much for him.

[W2G]

Why didn't Coronado's Quest run in the Derby?

He was kind of crazy and Shug didn't want him savaging ladies in pretty hats. If I remember correctly he was pointed to the Preakness instead but suffered a minor injury. But you have to wonder off his Wood what he might have done in the KD.

[tribecaagent]

Do either of you think Lukas + Baffert + Zito would have stayed home?

[westny]

You are challenging me as though I disputed this notion. What am I missing?

I didn't read where you "disputed this notion". Only reply was precious/precocious post :lol: Didn't realize you might concur. :sleeping:

[KirisClown]

But you have to wonder off his Wood what he might have done in the KD.

He would have gotten burnt up in the Derby by Old Trieste..

His owner wanted no part of sending him to Kentucky anyway..

Janney was more unequivocal, saying: ''The Derby is out of the question. It wouldn't be fair for him.''

[eclecticapper]

Coronado's Quest did go on to become Shug's third Travers winner. Based on past history, Shug's probably more likely to mark the Travers on his calendar than the Derby.

[miesque]

Do either of you think Lukas + Baffert + Zito would have stayed home?

Unless one of them had the balls to geld that horse, I firmly believe it would have been a moot point (and even that would be no guarantee). Yes, they could have taken him and it would have been a memorable side show based the many antics of Coronado's Quest down at Gulfstream which are forever seared in brain, but the chances of success would be rather slim based on those antics. I can't fault them for making the decision they made with Coronado's Quest to bypass the Derby, I would have done the same in all likelihood.

[tribecaagent]

Unless one of them had the balls to geld that horse, I firmly believe it would have been a moot point (and even that would be no guarantee). Yes, they could have taken him and it would have been a memorable side show based the many antics of Coronado's Quest down at Gulfstream which are forever seared in brain, but the chances of success would be rather slim based on those antics. I can't fault them for making the decision they made with Coronado's Quest to bypass the Derby, I would have done the same in all likelihood.

I couldn't disagree more.

What's the downside? That's my whole point. The horse unravels before the race? So what? McGaughey "is wrong"? Who cares? You chalk it up as a learning experience for the horse and he'll be better prepared for the Breeders Cup. Worst case scenario - stewards order him scratched. Let me ask you this. Why are so many Phipps horses excused from the post parade? Are they ALL head cases?

A million and one things can happen at Churchill preparing for the Derby. It's been known for horses to "bloom" when training up to the race. What if CQ had a tremendous few weeks training up to the Derby? What if he showed signs of maturing, loved the surroundings, and behaved like a gentleman in the mornings?

One more thing. A while back, there was another horse who was pretty famous for being a goofball in the morning and afternoon. His name was Fusaichi Pegasus.

[miesque]

I couldn't disagree more.

What's the downside? That's my whole point. The horse unravels before the race? So what? McGaughey "is wrong"? Who cares? You chalk it up as a learning experience for the horse and he'll be better prepared for the Breeders Cup. Worst case scenario - stewards order him scratched. Let me ask you this. Why are so many Phipps horses excused from the post parade? Are they ALL head cases?

A million and one things can happen at Churchill preparing for the Derby. It's been known for horses to "bloom" when training up to the race. What if CQ had a tremendous few weeks training up to the Derby? What if he showed signs of maturing, loved the surroundings, and behaved like a gentleman in the mornings?

One more thing. A while back, there was another horse who was pretty famous for being a goofball in the morning and afternoon. His name was Fusaichi Pegasus.

Fusaichi Pegasus was quirky, as was Empire Maker. However, Coronado's Quest in my opinion was on a whole different level as far as wacky/crazy behavior is concerned at that point in his career and its no cake walk being the owner or trainer of such a horse, which is why I think the decision was made the way it was and it was their decision to make. Again, this is totally my opinion and I will readily admit that I tend to be more prejudiced against horses with serious behavioral issues (crazy, nutcase, looney, whatever you want to call it) since sent one me to the hospital several years ago. Those are a lot of "ifs" you listed and I was not present in mornings and so I really don't know how Coronado's Quest was progressing the weeks prior to the Derby, he may have been turning a new leaf and they were just being uber conservative or he may have failed to progress enough mentally for the connections to feel an attempt was necessary. Either way, its their call and I don't think they that if they genuinely thought he would have gotten the job done they would have skipped the Derby.

[overthehill]

I wouldnt be second guessing someone as capable as shug is. To be able to be around for 3 decades and train an undefeated animal like personal ensign is not a fluke.

[Stillriledup]

Congrats Shug!

Great day for racing, one of the good guys finally gets the roses.

Awesome! :ThmbUp:

[cordep17]

Congrats Shug!

Great day for racing, one of the good guys finally gets the roses.

Awesome! :ThmbUp:

It is so cool that you dug this up. This thread is a complete testement to Shug's approach. From now on, when he has an entry, he has my money. Pletcher can send his groups of five because he can, but Shug now has a derby win.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Shug McGaughey: "Everybody wants to win the Derby, and I'm no exception, but I don't want to be wrong"

Lukas + Baffert + Zito = COULD CARE LESS IF THEY'RE WRONG

Is it acceptable if I pull all my round the world comments about Orb since roughly this time?!:D

[Cratos]

Shug McGaughey: "Everybody wants to win the Derby, and I'm no exception, but I don't want to be wrong"

Lukas + Baffert + Zito = COULD CARE LESS IF THEY'RE WRONG

Shug McGaughey, D. Wayne (he shouldn't be included in your comment), the late Woody Stephens, the late Frank Whiteley, John Nerud, and a few more; when they have/had the horse you can walk to the cashier’s window most of the time because they are/were winners.

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh brother... :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

It irks me to no end that seemingly, every time we heap praise on one trainer, we have to degrade others.

While Shug deserves all the credit in the world for his training job on Orb, why must others take that opportunity on here to once again degrade other trainers like Pletcher and Lukas et al?

For all the praise Shug gets for being "patient" and being one of the "old school" guys, does anyone ever stop and think WHY he and Phipps get so few horses to the Derby? Is it because they are patient, or is it because they are fundamentally limited based on their operation?

Guys like Pletcher and Lukas are public trainers. They have owners that go to sales and unload their wallets looking specifically for a Derby horse.

McGaughey is at the mercy of the breeding operation he trains for. If they don't turn out a decent crop with a potential Derby horse in it, that's it...no Derby horse that year. It's no wonder they don't have many runners in the Derby. It's not necessarily because they are so patient and fundamentally different in their training philosophy, although that makes for good copy and human interest stories.

It's because it's hard to breed a horse good enough for the Derby, when that's your only shot at getting there. When you're not going to the sales and trying to buy a Derby horse, your options become quite self-limiting.

And for all the crap Lukas takes for being a trainer whose horses never last, trying to find a high quality horse who lasted beyond their 4yo campaign is pretty rare when it comes to Shug as well.

I come up with Lure, Vanlandingham and Queena for Shug. I'm sure there are others I am forgetting, but I'm limiting myself to MAJOR names.

Lukas had Serena's Song and Criminal Type and Steinlen...so the score is tied, 3-3.

[horses4courses]

An article by Andy Beyer today addresses this topic.
Here are his views:

http://www.drf.com/news/andrew-beyer-orbs-kentucky-derby-was-victory-old-school

While all trainers recognize and talk about the importance of patience, few trainers exhibit it, especially when the Derby is concerned. They used to. The late Charlie Whittingham operated the most powerful stable in the West for decades, but he didn’t take a horse to the Derby for 26 years until he won with Ferdinand in 1986. It was Wayne Lukas who changed the way the game is played. He recognized that the way to build his reputation and attract owners was to win the most high-profile races, particularly the 3-year-old classics. Every year he was a general masterminding an all-out assault on the Derby, and he threw his troops into battle knowing they would have to sustain casualties in the pursuit of his objective. Lukas became the most famous and successful trainer in the United States, and his obsession with the Derby became the norm.
The old school believes a trainer should not manage a horse to fulfill the personal ambitions of the owner or trainer. The old school believes a trainer should be guided by the development and the capabilities of the animal. The old school believes judicious handling will eventually bring rewards.

[rastajenk]

Between Beyer's comments and PA's right above that, I'd say that the more accurate analysis belongs to....


PaceAdvantage. I think Andy had a deadline and had to put something out and took the lazy route. Any part-time poster here could have written about The Patience of Shug.

[chadk66]

Shug is an extremely smart man. He looks at the big picture. When you train for one/two specific people you look at things differently. They are all in this for the long haul. He knows if he doesn't have a realistic chance at winning the derby why risk the horses future for that kind of a shot. How many horses that had unrealistic derby chances never really ran to their potential after the derby? A bunch I'd bet.

[lamboguy]

Shug is an extremely smart man. He looks at the big picture. When you train for one/two specific people you look at things differently. They are all in this for the long haul. He knows if he doesn't have a realistic chance at winning the derby why risk the horses future for that kind of a shot. How many horses that had unrealistic derby chances never really ran to their potential after the derby? A bunch I'd bet.i see him train for other other people these days. he trains for an old friend of mine Andrew Rosen, his father was Carl Rosen who owned horses like CHIEF'S CROWN and CHRISSY EVERETT.

[classhandicapper]

IMO Shug is one of the best trainers I have seen in my years as a fan. That covers the mid 70s until now.

He develops his horses at the appropriate pace, spots them appropriately in terms of class, distance and surface, doesn't kill them in the morning, stops when they need rest, and won't kill a horse looking for personal glory. He'll take a shot here or there when it makes sense, but if it doesn't work he'll retreat and continue on the correct path. What's not to like. He's a training God.

[chadk66]

a few but I don't think it's many. A select few I might add. And I'd guess it's only people that allow him to do what's best for the horse.

[horses4courses]

Between Beyer's comments and PA's right above that, I'd say that the more accurate analysis belongs to....


PaceAdvantage. I think Andy had a deadline and had to put something out and took the lazy route. Any part-time poster here could have written about The Patience of Shug.

I think the crux of the matter (the difference between PA and Beyer here) is this: Do you believe, or not,
that Lukas has used his approach to ready his 3 year olds for early May in order to nurture his own personal success?

Everyone wants to succeed.
It's just that there are different methods in attempting to achieve it.

[Leparoux]

How many horses that had unrealistic derby chances never really ran to their potential after the derby? A bunch I'd bet.
I don't totally buy this. Is it really the Derby that "ruined" the horse or is it just the fact that the horse never was any good? Two horses from last year stick out to me, Trinniberg and Optimizer. Both were ambitiously placed in the Derby but now that they are back to what they want to do, both are very good.

[chadk66]

my personal opinion is the derby attempt with some horses have ruined them mentally. I've seen some that were pretty nice horses leading up to the derby and were beaten badly and never seemed to rebound from it. I'll have to dig into my alzheimer's laced brain and see if I can remember some of these. It'll be going back to the mid eighties lol.

[PaceAdvantage]

Do you believe, or not,
that Lukas has used his approach to ready his 3 year olds for early May in order to nurture his own personal success?I'm not even sure how to begin to approach such a strange question.

[affirmedny]

It irks me to no end that seemingly, every time we heap praise on one trainer, we have to degrade others.

While Shug deserves all the credit in the world for his training job on Orb, why must others take that opportunity on here to once again degrade other trainers like Pletcher and Lukas et al?

For all the praise Shug gets for being "patient" and being one of the "old school" guys, does anyone ever stop and think WHY he and Phipps get so few horses to the Derby? Is it because they are patient, or is it because they are fundamentally limited based on their operation?

Guys like Pletcher and Lukas are public trainers. They have owners that go to sales and unload their wallets looking specifically for a Derby horse.

McGaughey is at the mercy of the breeding operation he trains for. If they don't turn out a decent crop with a potential Derby horse in it, that's it...no Derby horse that year. It's no wonder they don't have many runners in the Derby. It's not necessarily because they are so patient and fundamentally different in their training philosophy, although that makes for good copy and human interest stories.

It's because it's hard to breed a horse good enough for the Derby, when that's your only shot at getting there. When you're not going to the sales and trying to buy a Derby horse, your options become quite self-limiting.

And for all the crap Lukas takes for being a trainer whose horses never last, trying to find a high quality horse who lasted beyond their 4yo campaign is pretty rare when it comes to Shug as well.

I come up with Lure, Vanlandingham and Queena for Shug. I'm sure there are others I am forgetting, but I'm limiting myself to MAJOR names.

Lukas had Serena's Song and Criminal Type and Steinlen...so the score is tied, 3-3.

None of those Shug horses were owned by Phipps or Janney by the way.

[PaceAdvantage]

None of those Shug horses were owned by Phipps or Janney by the way.I had moved beyond the Derby by that point, so I'm not sure how relevant that is to the end of my post, but I thank you for pointing it out...

[rastajenk]

I'm not even sure how to begin to approach such a strange question.Me neither, but I'll try. Lukas' method was completely in sync with the goals of Eugene Klein, W T Young, and other deep-pocketed sportsmen who wanted to win the biggest races. His (Lukas) success wasn't built on suckering new-money innocents into the game to fund his personal ambition. So, yeah, I guess I don't get the question either. :D

[horses4courses]

Me neither, but I'll try. Lukas' method was completely in sync with the goals of Eugene Klein, W T Young, and other deep-pocketed sportsmen who wanted to win the biggest races. His (Lukas) success wasn't built on suckering new-money innocents into the game to fund his personal ambition. So, yeah, I guess I don't get the question either. :D

The question is simple. If Lukas has a 2yo with potential, it's next May, or nothing. When's the last time you heard Lukas say around Jan/Feb "Yeah, this horse has a load of potential, but he's just not going to be mature enough by May." ?
You can be sure that Shug McCaughey and dozens of other trainers in the past decade have said words to that effect.
Not D. Wayne. The only time that horse will sit out is if he/she is injured, or couldn't qualify.

When Lukas had Gene Klein as his primary owner, he was not as preoccupied with the three TC races as he has been in the past 10-15 years.
Sure, if he had a potential superstar back then that could be prepared for May then, yes, it was an important target along with Breeders' Cup later in the year. When his deep-pocketed owner passed on, it didn't take him long to alter his strategy slightly. Focus solely on the Triple Crown races.

Lukas loves the limelight in May. Did you happen to see the segment about him on NBC on Saturday before the Derby? Striding along the shed row in slow motion wearing suede tasseled chaps. It's great publicity, and it happens every year he has 3yo horses in the TC races. "The Coach" is a legend, and has a record to back that up.

All Beyer is doing is questioning his approach, and I feel it's justified.
Granted, this year he ran two colts that had a legitimate shot.
For more than ten years now, though, you get the feeling that if he has one that's breathing, and can stand on four legs, he will run it.

[affirmedny]

I had moved beyond the Derby by that point, so I'm not sure how relevant that is to the end of my post, but I thank you for pointing it out...

Just that he's not quite so limited to waiting for Phipps to breed a derby horse as he's trained for a few other good owners. Other than that I agree with what you said.

[PaceAdvantage]

The question is simple. If Lukas has a 2yo with potential, it's next May, or nothing. When's the last time you heard Lukas say around Jan/Feb "Yeah, this horse has a load of potential, but he's just not going to be mature enough by May." ?
You can be sure that Shug McCaughey and dozens of other trainers in the past decade have said words to that effect.
Not D. Wayne. The only time that horse will sit out is if he/she is injured, or couldn't qualify.

When Lukas had Gene Klein as his primary owner, he was not as preoccupied with the three TC races as he has been in the past 10-15 years.
Sure, if he had a potential superstar back then that could be prepared for May then, yes, it was an important target along with Breeders' Cup later in the year. When his deep-pocketed owner passed on, it didn't take him long to alter his strategy slightly. Focus solely on the Triple Crown races.

Lukas loves the limelight in May. Did you happen to see the segment about him on NBC on Saturday before the Derby? Striding along the shed row in slow motion wearing suede tasseled chaps. It's great publicity, and it happens every year he has 3yo horses in the TC races. "The Coach" is a legend, and has a record to back that up.

All Beyer is doing is questioning his approach, and I feel it's justified.
Granted, this year he ran two colts that had a legitimate shot.
For more than ten years now, though, you get the feeling that if he has one that's breathing, and can stand on four legs, he will run it.No, the question isn't that simple, because you bring all sorts of psychoanalysis into the equation. You see this as a giant ego trip for Lukas...this getting horses to the Derby at any cost.

I totally disagree with you. Lukas is a product of his success. Because he was successful in the Triple Crown and the Derby, that's the kind of owner who sought him out. Owners with the Derby on their mind had a short list of trainers, and Lukas was one of those on the list. Obviously, it's not that way as much anymore as Lukas is in the twilight of his career. He was typecast in a way...and those were the horses he would get. I'm sure he didn't mind all that much. Nothing wrong with enjoying the limelight along the way.

But it's his early success that stamped him as a Derby trainer, so that's the kind of clients he invariable picked up.

As for the TV coverage, do you really think Lukas set that whole thing up? Or do they come to him every year he happens to be in the race precisely because he's enjoyed such success in the past and he's one of the few recognizable, household names in the sport. Lukas and Baffert...and Zito...that's all you heard about during the Triple Crown races of the past 25 years or so. So of course if one of them has one going, there's going to be a spot on TV for them, more likely than not.

You think this is what drives Lukas? Those TV spots? Because that's kind of how what you wrote comes off...

[horses4courses]

No, the question isn't that simple, because you bring all sorts of psychoanalysis into the equation. You see this as a giant ego trip for Lukas...this getting horses to the Derby at any cost.

I totally disagree with you. Lukas is a product of his success. Because he was successful in the Triple Crown and the Derby, that's the kind of owner who sought him out. Owners with the Derby on their mind had a short list of trainers, and Lukas was one of those on the list. Obviously, it's not that way as much anymore as Lukas is in the twilight of his career. He was typecast in a way...and those were the horses he would get. I'm sure he didn't mind all that much. Nothing wrong with enjoying the limelight along the way.

But it's his early success that stamped him as a Derby trainer, so that's the kind of clients he invariable picked up.

As for the TV coverage, do you really think Lukas set that whole thing up? Or do they come to him every year he happens to be in the race precisely because he's enjoyed such success in the past and he's one of the few recognizable, household names in the sport. Lukas and Baffert...and Zito...that's all you heard about during the Triple Crown races of the past 25 years or so. So of course if one of them has one going, there's going to be a spot on TV for them, more likely than not.

You think this is what drives Lukas? Those TV spots? Because that's kind of how what you wrote comes off...

There is no disputing the man's record.
He has done great things with many excellent horses.

I guess I just can't understand the fixation with the three TC races.
If you've you have one that is up to it, fine.
Otherwise, keep them in the barn for another time.

[PaceAdvantage]

Bottom line...he's won the Kentucky Derby four times, the Preakness five times, and the Belmont four times. He's won 13 Triple Crown races.

You can't blame the man for thinking he has a horse with a shot in the race. His judgment of Triple Crown horse flesh has been undeniably successful over the years...

[rastajenk]

And of course, we really have no way of knowing how many times Lukas had the conversation with an owner that went something like, "This is a useful horse, but realistically he's not ready for the TC events." All we really know is the history of the ones that made it to those races.