Baby Races are back.

[CBedo]

Just watched GPs first 2f 2 year old race. Pinball! Fillies bouncing off each other everywhere!

[Watcher]

Saw this race, too. Love them learning to race.

SJ20xHQySJk

[plainolebill]

I think it kind of sucks, most of these horses won't be seen again after their two yo season.

[jognlope]

Starters earn their wage!!

[Bobthebuilder]

I think it kind of sucks, most of these horses won't be seen again after their two yo season.
To young to be racing some may not even be two!

[samyn on the green]

I think it kind of sucks, most of these horses won't be seen again after their two yo season.Next year? Most will be retired or worse by September.

[lamboguy]

i have had them win these races and still run after many years.

[joanied]

i have had them win these races and still run after many years.

They must have been the exceptions. Until a 'baby' learns to take a straight course coming out of the gate...these races are just a good way for them to get hurt before they even get started.
They may be good for the learning process....but be sure they school out of the gate well first...IMO:)

[Mineshaft]

Next year? Most will be retired or worse by September.





Your exactly right. In 6 months they will be crippled or retired. It would be interesting to follow all these horses and see just how many starts they have throughout there careers.



Why the fawk would a race track card these 2 furlong races knowing damn good and well they are doing more harm to the horse than helping the horse?

[lamboguy]

we just won the race today with KITTY IN THE BAG in santa anita race 1.

its really about how good a bottom you have in the horse. if the horse doesn't have a good foundation they never last. we have had horses last for years like fourstar dave from the training they get in florida. tony everard has been doing this for years and has produced lots of champions. funnycide had the toughest campaign ever and made it into his 6th year. others that were trained by tony were champions like formal gold and skip away, island fashion, and the latest champion two step salsa. they all trained the same way kitty in the bag did.

i know its easy to steriotype young early horses and how they don't make it into their 3 yo year, ours are opposite because of the endurance and bottom the horse has.

[Ian Meyers]

Congrats Lambo. She ran the last furlong in 10 seconds drawing off from the field.

I know it was only a 2f race but I can see her winning stakes at 5 and 6F this year. IMHO, I'd keep an eye out for other Wildcat Heir's that hit the track this year. I can see him as a leading first crop sire in '09.

[Valuist]

That means one less race to wager on at tracks like GP and Kee.

[cmoore]

That means one less race to wager on at tracks like GP and Kee.

So far the three or four 2F races they've had at S.A. and Gulfstream have been chalky...That will change...If you ever are inclined to bet these races..Just concentrate on the top sprint sires in the race..AWD is a good starting point..

[Bruddah]

I have to give Oaklawn credit for doing away with Baby races (2yo's) in the early 1970's. These 2yo horses are way to immature to run the first 6 months of their 2 yo year. He!! let them at least wait until June of their 2nd year. Their knees haven't even begun to close and most experience damage because of early racing.

The Industry can say they are being good Stewards of these animals, when in fact, this type of racing proves the opposite. :mad:

[jognlope]

I agree why the fawk, if their long bones aren't formed until 3.

[lamboguy]

i guess the jist of this thread is that you guys don't like early 2 yo races. i remember the old days when oaklawn had the early races, the same guys won every race. it didn't come down to the horse winning the race, it was all in the preparation. some of those races looked worse than the one in florida yesterday. it really didn't matter whether those horses started in april, or if they started as 10 year olds, those horses with those trainers would have looked the same. horses have been running early for years in europe and in the quarter horse business.. basically those horses in europe are the ones that hold up better thru the years than the ones that start later. the biggest downside you have now is that there are very few races once the 2 yo wins early.

[onefast99]

Congrats Lambo. She ran the last furlong in 10 seconds drawing off from the field.

I know it was only a 2f race but I can see her winning stakes at 5 and 6F this year. IMHO, I'd keep an eye out for other Wildcat Heir's that hit the track this year. I can see him as a leading first crop sire in '09.
We have 2 wildcat heir horses and they both are coming along well. I agree they will be a good group to watch this year.

[Bobthebuilder]

we just won the race today with KITTY IN THE BAG in santa anita race 1.

its really about how good a bottom you have in the horse. if the horse doesn't have a good foundation they never last. we have had horses last for years like fourstar dave from the training they get in florida. tony everard has been doing this for years and has produced lots of champions. funnycide had the toughest campaign ever and made it into his 6th year. others that were trained by tony were champions like formal gold and skip away, island fashion, and the latest champion two step salsa. they all trained the same way kitty in the bag did.

i know its easy to steriotype young early horses and how they don't make it into their 3 yo year, ours are opposite because of the endurance and bottom the horse has.

Not sure if it is about foundation, More like the fact the knees in these young horses rarely are fully developed , causing frequent problems down the line.
When did your runners make their first starts?

[strapper]

It's hard to believe Gulfstream allows baby races this early. Happened to see the race - well I bet it too - hit the exacta but lost money, keyed on the #6 to beat the entry and #6 finished like a house of fire so one to watch down the road I guess. Wesley Ward is always tough w/ the 2yos though so no surprise he ran 1-2. The race was definitely not a smooth one, lots of bumping and jostling, surprised no one came down.

[joanied]

Lamboguy...congrads on your win...and I'm sure your babies have a nice foundation...but, really, just how much foundation can you get into a horse that may not even be a two year old yet...long gallops...a few quick, short breezes?
Those bones, knees, tendons still have a long way to go...so I am still not in favor of baby races.

[lamboguy]

Lamboguy...congrads on your win...and I'm sure your babies have a nice foundation...but, really, just how much foundation can you get into a horse that may not even be a two year old yet...long gallops...a few quick, short breezes?
Those bones, knees, tendons still have a long way to go...so I am still not in favor of baby races.

some of these horses are under tack as early as august. funnycide was, instant friendship was, timely writer was, skipaway was, formal gold was. the ones that start early and can hold up can turn out to be real good as you can see. i believe what you are referring to are the horses that aren't even broken until november and you see them in a race the beginning of april. that really don't fly ever, yet people attempt it. you see your statement is partially right, it just needs to be qualified. the best horses are the horses that train every day and are good eaters. there is no drug or therapy that can substitute for those 2 factors.

[joanied]

some of these horses are under tack as early as august. funnycide was, instant friendship was, timely writer was, skipaway was, formal gold was. the ones that start early and can hold up can turn out to be real good as you can see. i believe what you are referring to are the horses that aren't even broken until november and you see them in a race the beginning of april. that really don't fly ever, yet people attempt it. you see your statement is partially right, it just needs to be qualified. the best horses are the horses that train every day and are good eaters. there is no drug or therapy that can substitute for those 2 factors.

I agree about the training and feed....mentioning all the good ones makes a good point...bottom line, I guess, is that every 'baby' needs to be brought around as fast or slow as it needs to be...and some, like you, lambo, take the time needed, and only enter these youngsters in a baby race if you feel it's ready to withstand the rigors of running at such an early age...I would hope any 'baby' entered in a baby race has been fully vetted, xrays of knees ect. taken, and if everything looks good...go ahead and run. And hope that youngster comes out of it in fine shape.
:)

[lamboguy]

I agree about the training and feed....mentioning all the good ones makes a good point...bottom line, I guess, is that every 'baby' needs to be brought around as fast or slow as it needs to be...and some, like you, lambo, take the time needed, and only enter these youngsters in a baby race if you feel it's ready to withstand the rigors of running at such an early age...I would hope any 'baby' entered in a baby race has been fully vetted, xrays of knees ect. taken, and if everything looks good...go ahead and run. And hope that youngster comes out of it in fine shape.
:)

alot of guys think they can run a fast horse in a 2f dash without the closed knees because they don't go around turns. i personally don't subscribe to that theory because on the gallop out they go around the clubhouse turn even if its slower than during the race.

[joanied]

alot of guys think they can run a fast horse in a 2f dash without the closed knees because they don't go around turns. i personally don't subscribe to that theory because on the gallop out they go around the clubhouse turn even if its slower than during the race.

Very true...in fact, it would help any horse to gallop both ways...so their legs get 'equal treatment'...probably can't do that at the track, but while on the farm or at a training center, it could be done...
and for the baby races, which I suppose aren't going to go away...it seems in watching these races that the youngsters just are not 'gate ready' yet... a lot of damage can be done when they break and go this way and that way, bumping and running everywhere but in a straight line.:faint:

[jognlope]

there's a certain scan that detects hairline or about to be fracture, wish all tracks had it, but cost would be something else.

[joanied]

there's a certain scan that detects hairline or about to be fracture, wish all tracks had it, but cost would be something else.

Yeah...I read about that too...it would sure be a huge help in diagnostics...but alas, as you said, jog...only the very wealthy could afford it.

[plainolebill]

i guess the jist of this thread is that you guys don't like early 2 yo races. i remember the old days when oaklawn had the early races, the same guys won every race. it didn't come down to the horse winning the race, it was all in the preparation. some of those races looked worse than the one in florida yesterday. it really didn't matter whether those horses started in april, or if they started as 10 year olds, those horses with those trainers would have looked the same. horses have been running early for years in europe and in the quarter horse business.. basically those horses in europe are the ones that hold up better thru the years than the ones that start later. the biggest downside you have now is that there are very few races once the 2 yo wins early.

I read the Southern California form every day, year round' and I'm always surprised when I see one of these puppies that ran in the 2F races racing at the age of three.

I don't know if they are damaged or racing down at Los Alamitos but they sure aren't running at the big tracks - you can take that to the bank.

[PaceAdvantage]

I agree why the fawk, if their long bones aren't formed until 3.fawk?

[BIG49010]

Wesley Ward is always tough w/ the 2yos though so no surprise he ran 1-2.


Wesley won the two races in Florida and the 1st baby race in KY. He has his baby's stoked.

[jognlope]

I didn't start it! But I won't use it again if it aggravates...

[Valuist]

So far the three or four 2F races they've had at S.A. and Gulfstream have been chalky...That will change...If you ever are inclined to bet these races..Just concentrate on the top sprint sires in the race..AWD is a good starting point..

I have absolutely zero inclination to bet 2YOs this early. I believe in these instances the owners and trainers and backside types know far more about the abilities of their unraced first timers than myself or other bettors do. There's no shortage of good wagering opportunities......I'll pass on these.

[cmoore]

I have absolutely zero inclination to bet 2YOs this early. I believe in these instances the owners and trainers and backside types know far more about the abilities of their unraced first timers than myself or other bettors do. There's no shortage of good wagering opportunities......I'll pass on these.

Just the other day at Santa Anita there was a Freespool runner who got 2nd at 70-1...Second lowest AWD in the race..I had bet the lowest AWD in race and she had finished 5th..I screwed my own advice up..Damn!!!