Notre Damers , what say you....

[ddog]

PJB: Is Notre Dame Still Catholic?

By Patrick J. Buchanan

By inviting Barack Obama to deliver the commencement address and receive an honorary degree at Notre Dame, the Rev. John Jenkins has polarized the Catholic community nationwide — and raised a question. What does it mean to be a Catholic university in post-Christian America?

Are there truths about faith and morality that are closed to debate at Notre Dame? Or is Notre Dame like London’s Hyde Park, where all ideas and all advocates get a hearing?

To Catholics, abortion is the killing of an unborn child, a premeditated breach of God’s Commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill.” The case is closed for all time. Any who participate in an abortion are excommunicated. Catholic politicians from Nancy Pelosi to Joe Biden who support a “woman’s right to choose” have been denounced from pulpits and denied Communion.

Obama, however, is the most pro-abortion president ever. On his third day in office, by executive order, he repealed the Bush prohibition against using tax dollars to fund agencies abroad that perform abortions



http://buchanan.org/blog/pjb-is-notre-dame-still-catholic-1485


I posted this because I worked with a couple of guys who sent their kids to ND and they are as ND gold as it gets and THEY ARE P.O.... bigtime.

I would not force a women to carry to term , but .......

[DJofSD]

Any who participate in an abortion are excommunicated. Not true.

[DJofSD]

I posted this because I worked with a couple of guys who sent their kids to ND and they are as ND gold as it gets and THEY ARE P.O.... bigtime.
They should work through the alumni association and withhold any contributions they make to it or the school.

[Tom]

By inviting this disgraceful sack of garbage and honoring him, ND has slapped
Catholics in the face. They should be dis-credited as a Catholic college and shunned by true Catholics.

Honoring Obama is beyond reprehensible. This POS favors murdering babies AFTER birth. No excuse for that. How would he like it if we aborted his two brats?

[riskman]

In present day America most religious institutions abandoned their independence long ago, and now serve as cheerleaders for state policies like social services, faith-based welfare, and military aggression in the name of democracy. Few American catholic churches ,schools or universities challenge state actions at all, provided their tax-exempt status is maintained.
The political left has been highly critical of the of the Vaticans positions on abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, feminism, and contraception. Many liberals view Catholicism as an impediment to the fully secular society they hope to create.

[cj's dad]

I now officially despise Notre dame and hope they never succeed in any endeavor they and their staff may undertake in the future.

FUND !!

[DJofSD]

I wonder if any one has asked Mel Gibson about BO's visit to ND.

[Valuist]

Let's face it, the Catholic church has a lot bigger problems to worry about than Obama.......starting with their pedo-philic priests.

[PaceAdvantage]

Let's face it, the Catholic church has a lot bigger problems to worry about than Obama.......starting with their pedo-philic priests.I find it odd after studies have shown that the percentage of Catholic priests with sexual inclinations towards children is no higher (and is in fact lower) than the general population, that this Catholic bashing still exists in all its glory.

Studies have also shown that Catholic priests do not have any higher rate of pedophilia than say Protestant clergymen (and please note that Protestant clergy do not live under any sort of celibacy rules, thus laying to rest the finger pointing that blames the Church's strict celibacy policy as somehow the cause of this 'epidemic').

I suppose it's the high-profile cases that have unfortunately painted the Catholic church with such a damning brush when it comes to the tragedy of child abuse.

It doesn't hurt any that the liberal MSM hates the Catholic church for its various stances on gay marriage, abortion, etc. I'm sure the MSM takes no delight in reporting such tragic instances of child abuse by priests, and I'm sure they are not trying to make this out to be more of a widespread problem for Catholic priests than it is in reality...they would never be disingenuous like that...

[Valuist]

I find it odd after studies have shown that the percentage of Catholic priests with sexual inclinations towards children is no higher (and is in fact lower) than the general population, that this Catholic bashing still exists in all its glory.

Studies have also shown that Catholic priests do not have any higher rate of pedophilia than say Protestant clergymen (and please note that Protestant clergy do not live under any sort of celibacy rules, thus laying to rest the finger pointing that blames the Church's strict celibacy policy as somehow the cause of this 'epidemic').

I suppose it's the high-profile cases that have unfortunately painted the Catholic church with such a damning brush when it comes to the tragedy of child abuse.

It doesn't hurt any that the liberal MSM hates the Catholic church for its various stances on gay marriage, abortion, etc. I'm sure the MSM takes no delight in reporting such tragic instances of child abuse by priests, and I'm sure they are not trying to make this out to be more of a widespread problem for Catholic priests than it is in reality...they would never be disingenuous like that...

Mike-

Its not a liberal matter. Its happened. Way too many times. How come you don't hear about the same problem to anywhere near the same degree with Lutherans, Baptists or Episcopalians? Because it isn't to the same degree.

[PaceAdvantage]

Mike-

Its not a liberal matter. Its happened. Way too many times. How come you don't hear about the same problem to anywhere near the same degree with Lutherans, Baptists or Episcopalians? Because it isn't to the same degree.Did I not just post about a study I read which concluded that Catholic priests do not have a higher rate of pedophilia when compared to other Christian denominations? I will have to dig deeper and find the specifics of the study...

[dutchboy]

Barney Frank would be an excellent sub for Obama. Probably is a Catholic since he is from Mass and based on the photo of him with his hand on the rear of his special friend he would be an excellent fit with the priests.

Let's face it, the Catholic church has a lot bigger problems to worry about than Obama.......starting with their pedo-philic priests.

[magwell]

By inviting this disgraceful sack of garbage and honoring him, ND has slapped
Catholics in the face. They should be dis-credited as a Catholic college and shunned by true Catholics.

Honoring Obama is beyond reprehensible. This POS favors murdering babies AFTER birth. No excuse for that. How would he like it if we aborted his two brats? This by far is the worst post ever allowed here,its shamefull anti-american garbage and something you expect to find in a hate blog, really sad :ThmbDown:

[exactaplayer]

This by far is the worst post ever allowed here,its shamefull anti-american garbage and something you expect to find in a hate blog, really sad :ThmbDown:
Since the election, this has turned into a hate blog. some of these posts remind me of those justralph used to grab from the democratic underground blog and paste here.

[Tom]

Truth hurt?

[magwell]

Truth hurt? I didnt vote for him but he is my president now for the next 4 yrs..... I'm proud to be American......and ashamed of people like Tom with the gutter mouth trash they speak about the president of my country.

[Tom]

He's all yours.

[newtothegame]

N.O. Archbishop criticizes Notre Dame for inviting Obama to speak at commencement

by Bruce Nolan, The Times-Picayune Thursday April 02, 2009, 10:31 PM


http://blog.nola.com/news_impact/2009/04/large_hughes.jpgMichael DeMocker / The Times-PicayuneNew Orleans Archbishop Alfred Hughes, pictured here in January, criticized the University of Notre Dame's decision to award Barack Obama an honorary degree at graduation exercise in May.


More Resources

• Read Hughes' letter to Notre Dame (http://blog.nola.com/elections_impact/2009/04/Hughes%20letter.pdf)


New Orleans Archbishop Alfred Hughes on Thursday joined a growing chorus of Catholic bishops deploring the University of Notre Dame's decision to award President Barack Obama an honorary degree at graduation exercises next month.

Notre Dame is perhaps the flagship Catholic university in the country. But Obama favors abortion rights and embryonic stem-cell research, two public policies vigorously opposed by the Roman Catholic Church.
His administration recently suspended federal "conscience rules" that, under the Bush administration, had shielded some health care workers who refuse to participate in abortions on the basis of "religious beliefs or moral convictions."

Hughes wrote Notre Dame's president (http://blog.nola.com/elections_impact/2009/04/Hughes%20letter.pdf), the Rev. John Jenkins, expressing his opposition, archdiocesan spokeswoman Sarah Comiskey said.

"He feels as though this is not just an issue for Notre Dame. This is an issue on which Catholics everywhere are expressing disappointment. It clearly goes against Catholic policy against honoring pro-choice politicians. He's just making the point that Catholics should be standing up for life everywhere, " Comiskey said.

Fifty-four percent of Catholics voted for Obama in the 2008 election. Still, news that Notre Dame would honor Obama at its May 17 commencement has jolted Catholic opponents of abortion since the March 20 White House announcement that he would speak at Notre Dame.

Handling a hot potato

Critics include New York's new Archbishop-Designate Timothy Dolan, who said "they made a big mistake, " and Chicago Cardinal Francis George.

In addition, Hughes joins a growing list of at least 15 individual bishops across the country speaking out against Notre Dame's invitation.

A conservative watchdog group, the Cardinal Newman Society, has become an online gathering place for opposition, gathering computer signatures in protest for delivery to the university.

In New Orleans, Paul Christmann Jr., a software developer who sits as a regional representative on the university's alumni board, said the Obama invitation has disturbed some local Notre Dame alumni who have made plain their views. But he said he did not know whether there was a local consensus among alumni for or against honoring Obama.
On campus, however, where the invitation increasingly dominates other issues, more than 600 letters to the independent student newspaper, "The Observer, " are about evenly split for and against the invitation, editor Jenn Metz said.

She noted a sharp difference in sentiment between alumni, 70 percent of whom oppose the invitation, and students, 73 percent of whom favor it.

"There's a pretty clear disconnect between alumni and students, " Metz said. "Alumni tend not to separate politics from the man. Students, aside from whether they agree with Obama's policies, seeming to be putting politics aside and see that it's an honor to have the president deliver the commencement address at this university."

Like some other universities, Notre Dame has a long-standing tradition of inviting presidents to its graduation. Obama will be the sixth president to speak at a Notre Dame commencement. President George W. Bush spoke in 2001.

Drawing the line

Catholic bishops in 2004 enacted a policy called "Catholics in Public Life, " in which they agreed to demonstrate consistency in principle and avoid confusion about the church's positions on public moral issues.

As part of that plan, "the Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions."

But Notre Dame is operated by the Congregation of Holy Cross, a Catholic religious order not directly under any bishop's control. The same order has a strong educational legacy in New Orleans, operating Holy Cross High School and Our Lady of Holy Cross College.

Some critics of the conservative backlash have pointed out that no outrage surrounded New York Cardinal Edward Egan's hospitality to Obama at the 2008 Al Smith dinner, an annual white-tie New York affair sponsored by the Archdiocese of New York. At earlier Al Smith dinners Egan hosted not only Obama, but former Vice President Al Gore and British Prime Minister Tony Blair, all abortion-rights supporters.

Reaching out
In announcing Obama's acceptance, university officials seemed to suggest they wanted to engage Obama on their differences, although it was not clear how that might be pursued.

"The invitation to President Obama to be our commencement speaker should not be taken as condoning or endorsing his positions" on abortion and embryonic stem-cell research, " Jenkins said.

"Yet, we see his visit as a basis for further positive engagement.

"You cannot change the world if you shun the people you want to persuade, and if you cannot persuade them . . . show respect for them and listen to them, " he told the Observer.

Hughes himself faced a similar situation in 2005, when he chided Loyola University and boycotted its law school graduation ceremony because the university that year honored the Landrieu family for decades of public service.

Among them was U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu, who has a mixed record on abortion-rights issues.

Bruce Nolan can be reached at bnolan@timespicayune.com or 504.826.3344.

[PaceAdvantage]

I didnt vote for him but he is my president now for the next 4 yrs..... I'm proud to be American......and ashamed of people like Tom with the gutter mouth trash they speak about the president of my country.You've been here since 2007. I don't recall you posting similar sentiments when certain folks were trashing Bush and his family on an almost daily basis.

Like I've said before, Karma is a bitch....

[PaceAdvantage]

Since the election, this has turned into a hate blog. some of these posts remind me of those justralph used to grab from the democratic underground blog and paste here.Since the election? You mean the 2000 election, correct?

I'll say to you what I just said to magwell. You've been here since 2004. While Bush was president, and all those hateful things were being posted about him and his family, did you ever post how off-topic has turned into a "hate blog."

I can't say I ever recall you posting such a thing.

[Lefty]

mag, Aside from the pos bit, which is opinion, Tom posted the truth about Obama. Not opinion, but fact. Obama was against babies that survived abortion getting a doctor's care. As Tom said, Truth hurt?

[magwell]

Mike and Lefty.....your response to my comments to Tom are weak,sorry if i hit a nerve.

[Lefty]

I see, your opinion trumps the facts. Says a lot, uhuhuh....

[jballscalls]

I read an article that said Notre Dame has a history of inviting new presidents to speak there, regardless of party or politics, so strange that they are getting upset.

As far as the hate blog, PA is right that it was the same way when Bushy was in office, it's just that it's different people doing the hating. But everyone is entitled to their free speech, and like it or not, Obama did state and vote that he was in favor situations where unwanted children could be aborted after they are actually born. Tom didn't post anything incorrect when he said that. Believe me i roll my eyes at many of his, PA's, Lefty and all of the Fab Five's posts, but many of their posts are indeed based in fact. Obama has made his bed, now he's gotta sleep in it.

[Tom]

Mag...the standard was set by the lefties here.
I am just enjoying my "at bats."

What goes around, comes around.
Sometimes it picks up speed.

This ain't no place for the squeemish.

When I speak about aborting living people, I have no power to actually do it.
Bummy, however, does.

Would you prefer I called him a rutabaga?

[DJofSD]

Brussel sprout -- small and green. Part of the cabbage family. And while every one says they like them, do you ever really see any one eat them?

[Tom]

I love brussel sprouts!
Cut them in half, fry them in EVOO, dash of red pepper flakes, some bacon bits. Serve with Labatts.

Even Bummy would not go good with beer.

[jballscalls]

I love brussel sprouts!
Cut them in half, fry them in EVOO, dash of red pepper flakes, some bacon bits. Serve with Labatts.

Even Bummy would not go good with beer.

thats exactly how i do them as well tom!! evoo, dash of salt, red pepper flakes, but i do actual bacon. Sometimes a bit of cream as well!

[Tom]

We may well have just uncovered the secret of world peace! :kiss:;)

[Steve 'StatMan']

Brocollli.

How many people with the last name of Lee are going to name a son Barack Lee?

[DJofSD]

Only if they be wearin' the green: Barack O'Lee.

[Tom]

I don't carrot all.

[cj's dad]

JBCI read an article that said Notre Dame has a history of inviting new presidents to speak there, regardless of party or politics, so strange that they are getting upset.

As far as the hate blog, PA is right that it was the same way when Bushy was in office, it's just that it's different people doing the hating. But everyone is entitled to their free speech, and like it or not, Obama did state and vote that he was in favor situations where unwanted children could be aborted after they are actually born. Tom didn't post anything incorrect when he said that. Believe me i roll my eyes at many of his, PA's, Lefty and all of the Fab Five's posts, but many of their posts are indeed based in fact. Obama has made his bed, now he's gotta sleep in it.

JBC- the term ABORTED in the case of children being MURDERED after they were born is not ABORTION; it is MURDER . You are entitled to your opinion. Please, please do not refer to MURDER, in this case, as ABORTION.

Think about this; a newborn child has been delivered from the womb; the child is alive and now it's life is extinguished because mommy does not want the inconvenience of having a "kid'. Tough shit bitch- give it up and move on. there are couples all over the USA who would like to adopt a child; let them !!

[Tom]

Then the only debate left is how long after birth.
Not a stretch for a government controlled health care system to decide that you are more cost effective aborted.

[PaceAdvantage]

Mike and Lefty.....your response to my comments to Tom are weak,sorry if i hit a nerve.I disagree strongly. The facts support the contention that my response was right on the mark.

Your lack of rebuttal, other than "sorry if i hit a nerve" (is that passive-aggressive?) is more than telling.

[magwell]

I disagree strongly. The facts support the contention that my response was right on the mark.

Your lack of rebuttal, other than "sorry if i hit a nerve" (is that passive-aggressive?) is more than telling. Wow its obvious I did hit a nerve and now I'm not sorry. So you can continue to side with Tom and his unpatriotic nonsense.

[Lefty]

mag, please explain what is unpatriotic about the truth? Obama did vote for a law that denied babies that survived abortion a doctor's care. That's a fact.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow its obvious I did hit a nerve and now I'm not sorry. So you can continue to side with Tom and his unpatriotic nonsense.You hit no nerve at all. I simply counter you with a very logical question, and I get zero response to the question asked. Allow me to ask it again, because it appears that maybe, just maybe you missed it the first time around:

I'm proud to be American......and ashamed of people like Tom with the gutter mouth trash they speak about the president of my country.This is a direct quote from your post magwell.

I then asked, when Bush was being trashed on an hourly basis here on off-topic since 2001, and certainly during your time on the board, why is it you never posted a similar "I'm proud to be American....and ashamed of people like Hcap with the gutter mouth trash they speak about the president of my country."

Just curious is all...if you don't have an answer for me, just say so...either way, no nerve will be struck, I can assure you...

[magwell]

Lefty.. unpatriotic in his posts regarding the president of the country, not just his stance on abortion.

[magwell]

Mike I came along nov. 2007 right after that we went into the election year 08 and the trash talking here was strong from the left because they felt the weak postion we were in, and they went for the knock out punch and won.... case closed, what went on before I showed, I have no idea, but thats no excuse to act unpatroctic... thats what Im saying.

[Tom]

The standard here, set by libs, is that it is patriotic to criticize the government.

Beside, it has been that way since the start of this nation.
You might be thinking you are in pre-war Iraq, where one had to always honor the leader.

Bummy has one sure fire way to shut me up and other like me.....do the right thing and succeed. I have no defense for that.