Why does american racing not use the digital scale?

[Imriledup]

Personally, i'd love to see the riders weights with my own eyes. Any reason we still let jocks do the 'quick step'? I'd love to see a digital readout. Is a digital scale that expensive that tracks won't spend the money to get one?

[Tom]

Like the Amish, they shun modern technology.

[Dick Schmidt]

It's not digital, but if you want to you can stand at Santa Anita and watch the jocks stand on the scale until the needle stops moving. I remember making a side bet about Pinkay's weight. He was listed at 119, yet tipped the scales at 135. Won the race too.


Dick

Errors have been made. Others will be blamed.

[DanG]

Thinking out loud; Why do I think the weight of the horse would be 100X more enlightening? While the paddock judge is checking the lip tattoo (this is always done…right? :faint: ) the animal stands on a scale and its weight is recorded / and announced.

[Bobthebuilder]

Thinking out loud; Why do I think the weight of the horse would be 100X more enlightening? While the paddock judge is checking the lip tattoo (this is always done…right? :faint: ) the animal stands on a scale and its weight is recorded / and announced.

What would you interpret from the horses weight?

[DanG]

What would you interpret from the horses weight?
I can’t say for sure Bob without having historical data; maybe nothing / or possibly something significant about conditioning / the effects of lasix / trainer changes / detention barns etc.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Has a young horse grown, and looking at it, possibly stronger and perhaps capable of a better race than before. Has the horse gone off his feed and dropped weight and strength and on the cycle downward.

[DanG]

Has a young horse grown, and looking at it, possibly stronger and perhaps capable of a better race than before. Has the horse gone off his feed and dropped weight and strength and on the cycle downward.
Better list then I had Steve. :ThmbUp:

[Bobthebuilder]

Better list then I had Steve. :ThmbUp:
Thanks, I am sure once we see some patterns it would be helpful.

[cj's dad]

Thanks, I am sure once we see some patterns it would be helpful.



I imagine it would be an issue to weigh maybe 100 entries 2-3 days prior to their next start for inclusion in the DRF. After all, if the info was not published prior to post time as a h'capping tool, what good would it be??

[DJofSD]

A good horseman can look at a horse to see if it is in good flesh. If a horse can be put on a scale on a regular basis, like I believe they do in Hong Kong, then the racing fan at least has a half of a chance to know if the horse is gaining or lossing weight. It could be worthless information to some but others would find it valuable.

I can remember years ago at Del Mar when Lukas was based in California, if I was betting into a race where he had an runner, I would always look to see how much flesh they were carrying. If there was a lot over the ribs, you were pretty safe to discard them as a none contender. However, if they were racing fit, had any kind of dimple showing on the hind quarters, you better reconsider his horse.

[Robert Fischer]

I imagine it would be an issue to weigh maybe 100 entries 2-3 days prior to their next start for inclusion in the DRF. After all, if the info was not published prior to post time as a h'capping tool, what good would it be??
Just do it from here on out.

I was looking at photos of derby contenders , and I showed 2 photos to my daughter, and asked "which one looks better ? ".
She started giggling and said that one of the horses has a "big booty".
Same horse. It appeared that he had bulked up between starts and was bigger in his more recent photo. To be fair the camera angle wasn't the same, the lighting wasn't the same, but there would have had to be a lot of camera magic going on, because it seemed like a physical change.
Seeing the race weights could help verify along with physical cues. Some trainers might be worth tracking 1st w/trainer weight gain... weight gain alone... weight loss etc...

another stat for us stat-nerds ;)

[Steve 'StatMan']

I have a trainer friend and a handicapping friend, I respect both of them and their talents, they are both among the local best. A few years ago the trainer friend had a horse where he was quoted as being thrilled that one of his horses had gained 50 pounds. This horse typically refused to eat as much as the trainer would have liked, and he had a very difficult time keeping weight/size/bulk on him. The horse was sharing in AP stakes but just not fast enough to win them. My handicapping friend pooh-poohed that quote in his newsletter, writing "So What?" I understood "What." I expected a stronger horse and projected improvement, and sure enough, the horse went on to win several stakes at the Fair Grounds meet including a graded race, and became a serious threat in stakes at Arlington until an unfortunate injury put the horse out of action for a very long time and eventually its racing career after a lengthy comeback.

I'd always wished we had the horse's weights instead of the riders weights, and at least in this case, I interpreded this info the right way.

[Imriledup]

Thinking out loud; Why do I think the weight of the horse would be 100X more enlightening? While the paddock judge is checking the lip tattoo (this is always done…right? :faint: ) the animal stands on a scale and its weight is recorded / and announced.

That's a great idea. Have a freight scale close to the paddock and when horses walk to the paddock, they can stop on the scale and get their tattoo checked and get weighed at the same time. The weights can be announced by the track. It can be announced as Mister Ed weighs 1000 lbs today and he weight 7 more lbs than his last start (as an example).

In pro sports, such as basketball or hockey, i know for sure that every player is weighed every day, those guys lose so much weight and water day in and day out, that the team needs to know if one guy is losing too much weight too soon, that would be great to know if a cheap claimer who ran a winning race in a 16k claimer, who has now missed 2 months, is showing up 40 lbs lighter in a 5k claimer in his next start. I'd like to have that info at my fingertips.

[cj's dad]

That's a great idea. Have a freight scale close to the paddock and when horses walk to the paddock, they can stop on the scale and get their tattoo checked and get weighed at the same time. The weights can be announced by the track. It can be announced as Mister Ed weighs 1000 lbs today and he weight 7 more lbs than his last start (as an example).

In pro sports, such as basketball or hockey, i know for sure that every player is weighed every day, those guys lose so much weight and water day in and day out, that the team needs to know if one guy is losing too much weight too soon, that would be great to know if a cheap claimer who ran a winning race in a 16k claimer, who has now missed 2 months, is showing up 40 lbs lighter in a 5k claimer in his next start. I'd like to have that info at my fingertips.

Three reasons why this is not done:

1)- Track management does not care what the bettor might find innovative and helpful.

2)- Track management would not want to invest money in "freight scales"

3)- They don't care what "we" want.

[098poi]

I think it would be great if they had a scale that had four distinct pads on it that each had their own scale. You could get an average of how horses distribute their weight and if a horse was slightly favoring one leg that might show in the weights. If a scale showed a horse was favoring one leg beyond the acceptable average then the horse couldn't run. Might save some lives if it worked. Just an idea.

[DJofSD]

Horses normally are on the forehand. The fact that in any short time frame they might have slightly more weight on the right fore compared to the left fore would not really indicate anything. If a horse is favoring one leg over the other, it is usually seen when they are walking. A horse with a significant lameness will jerk its head when the leg with the soreness is starting to bare the weight. On a hard surface you can hear the uneveness of the 1-2-3-4 pattern of the hoofs as it walks.

[098poi]

Thanks for filling me in. Just an idea as I don't know a lot about horses. Like those commercials say "The more you know" (I hate those more than almost anything else on T.V.!!)

[Relwob Owner]

Thanks for filling me in. Just an idea as I don't know a lot about horses. Like those commercials say "The more you know" (I hate those more than almost anything else on T.V.!!)


At the risk of taking the thread in a slightly different direction....one basic question occurred to me recently that I had never thought of in my 20 years at the track.....why do the jocks have to weigh what they do? If they weighed in the 130-140lb range, would it be that much different on the horse and wouldnt it help avoid all of the issues for the jocks that come along with losing weight? Could be the dumbest question ever but I figured would give it a shot....

[Pace Cap'n]

At the risk of taking the thread in a slightly different direction....one basic question occurred to me recently that I had never thought of in my 20 years at the track.....why do the jocks have to weigh what they do? If they weighed in the 130-140lb range, would it be that much different on the horse and wouldnt it help avoid all of the issues for the jocks that come along with losing weight? Could be the dumbest question ever but I figured would give it a shot....

Here's a couple of previous threads on this subject...

www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41537&highlight=jockey+weight)

www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11576&highlight=jockey+weight)

[Imriledup]

At the risk of taking the thread in a slightly different direction....one basic question occurred to me recently that I had never thought of in my 20 years at the track.....why do the jocks have to weigh what they do? If they weighed in the 130-140lb range, would it be that much different on the horse and wouldnt it help avoid all of the issues for the jocks that come along with losing weight? Could be the dumbest question ever but I figured would give it a shot....

If a jock has to go to extreme measures to lose weight or keep weight down,that means he isn't cut out to be a jockey. He/she needs to find another line of work that doesn't require him/her to weigh 115 lbs or less.

Owners don't want 140 lbs to be on the backs of their expensive investments.

[robert99]

The favourite in the UK Grand National to be run on Saturday is carrying 158 pounds over 4.5 miles and jumping 30 fences. The top weight is carrying 164 pounds.

[DJofSD]

The favourite in the UK Grand National to be run on Saturday is carrying 158 pounds over 4.5 miles and jumping 30 fences. The top weight is carrying 164 pounds.
Robert, those are real horses and real horesmen that have probably forgotten more than what most so called flat trainers have ever learned.

[Relwob Owner]

Here's a couple of previous threads on this subject...

www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41537&highlight=jockey+weight)

www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11576&highlight=jockey+weight)


Awesome....just one of those things I always took for granted and never thought about until recently

[maxwell]

It's not digital, but if you want to you can stand at Santa Anita and watch the jocks stand on the scale until the needle stops moving. I remember making a side bet about Pinkay's weight. He was listed at 119, yet tipped the scales at 135. Won the race too.


Dick

Errors have been made. Others will be blamed.



Dick,

Pincay was 16 lbs. over? The track must have been very muddy that day? ... concrete perhaps? :D They say his eyelids weighed 5 lbs. each; that could explain it! :)