View Full Version : Uncle Ed Auwarter bags 2 today!
Bluto Blutarsky
03-31-2009, 04:36 PM
I know it is a topic we have all beaten to death. But God forgive me, it is fun.
Let's do it again. Uncle Ed won two races today at Philly.
One of the races he won was with an Unbridled's Song colt.
The closest this suspender wearing, ball scratching bag of S&!# got to an Unbridled's Song ever before he took over for Vaders was stepping in a pile of Unbridled's Song's manure when Ryerson had him.
Uncle Ed is going so well, it is just a matter of time before that ugly looking stork from Gumpster gives him a horse.
onefast99
03-31-2009, 05:11 PM
Tell it like it is broher, you da man. Any news from the Breen camp?
Another spineless jelly fish you know nothing about Ed . But use the keys of computer to spew your vile. This man has been trainer for fifty years with not a blemish on his record anyone who knows him will testify to his honesty and integrity in the business.His family has been involved in the business in all facets never a blemish .You my friend are a jealous coward.
Bluto Blutarsky
03-31-2009, 09:02 PM
Hey Fast- If I hear anything, I'll pass it on.
Tim- I love your passion in defending Ed. I know you mean well.
But your words are meaningless to me.
pandy
03-31-2009, 10:09 PM
So is Vaders actually doing the training (juicing) behind the scenes? Has this guy ever put up these type of numbers before? Does anyone know?
Pandy,
Auwarter won two races last year and only had one win in 2007.
reckless
04-01-2009, 01:51 PM
Ed Auwarter is a good horseman
I agree with timp on this one. Ed Auwarter is finally getting a chance again to be with a top outfit.
He is very old school and his late dad, Carl Auwarter, was a very respected trainer and horseman, known as a crafty trainer who could develop a young and cash a bet when needed.
Ed has had too many poor years in recent times, no denying that, but he is a far cry from a dope or a juicer.
When Atlantic City was running full year meets, he was regularly a top 5 trainer in the standings. Remember also that Auwarter raced mostly NJ homebreds and that could put a crimp in your won-lost percentage, for sure. He's a good trainer and horseman, everyone.
Also, he has the pedigree.... as stated his dad, Carl, was a lifelong trainer on the Jersey circuit. Ed is trainer Eddie Broome's and trainer Kevin Sleeter's uncle and he's a brother in-law with trainer Gerry Sleeter. This is a top New Jersey-based racing family.
Jane Vaders has absolutely no say in what is going on currently in the Auwarter shedrow, mark my words and go to the bank on that.
Wingtips
04-01-2009, 03:15 PM
John McCaslin runs the entire show, from training, to medications, to entering. Auwater just shows up to saddle in the paddock and pose for the picture. Vaders previously performed the same role as a salaried employee of John's.
onefast99
04-01-2009, 03:59 PM
Ed Auwarter is a good horseman
I agree with timp on this one. Ed Auwarter is finally getting a chance again to be with a top outfit.
He is very old school and his late dad, Carl Auwarter, was a very respected trainer and horseman, known as a crafty trainer who could develop a young and cash a bet when needed.
Ed has had too many poor years in recent times, no denying that, but he is a far cry from a dope or a juicer.
When Atlantic City was running full year meets, he was regularly a top 5 trainer in the standings. Remember also that Auwarter raced mostly NJ homebreds and that could put a crimp in your won-lost percentage, for sure. He's a good trainer and horseman, everyone.
Also, he has the pedigree.... as stated his dad, Carl, was a lifelong trainer on the Jersey circuit. Ed is trainer Eddie Broome's and trainer Kevin Sleeter's uncle and he's a brother in-law with trainer Gerry Sleeter. This is a top New Jersey-based racing family.
Jane Vaders has absolutely no say in what is going on currently in the Auwarter shedrow, mark my words and go to the bank on that.
All the people you mentioned are very respectable horseman. Broome has had success at MP almost every year. he seems to get them ready at Gulfstream for the Monmouth meet. The Sleeters are down to earth people.
mccaslin also does all of the saddleing. he is the entire show, dont think i've ever seen uncle ed saddle one horse.
PaceAdvantage
04-01-2009, 07:39 PM
John McCaslin runs the entire show, from training, to medications, to entering. Auwater just shows up to saddle in the paddock and pose for the picture. Vaders previously performed the same role as a salaried employee of John's.And you know this how? I tire of anonymous typists posting these allegations without having any proof to back it up....
Wingtips
04-01-2009, 08:33 PM
And you know this how? I tire of anonymous typists posting these allegations without having any proof to back it up....
Understandable, given that it's a maiden post. I am sure that others familiar with the Auwarter/McCaslin set up will corroborate what I said. My post comes from owning horses at the PHA for about 4 years (Railsplitters Stable)and spending a couple days each week during that time on the backside at the PHA, listening to numerous trainers, jockeys, agents, racing office personnel, as well as one of John's owners, tell me exactly what I previously posted. It's not a secret to anyone at the PHA. John is smart enough to keep to himself and not flaunt the current arrangement. Personally, I give the McCaslin outfit credit- they win races and keep hard knocking horses in winning form over extended periods. They also spot their horses very well, and I'm thrilled when I don't have to run against John.
Bluto Blutarsky
04-02-2009, 12:52 PM
Pace
I can understand you being cynical of new posters such as Wingtips and myself. But what Wingtips lays out is what is happening at Philly Park.
The day I was at Philly, I saw with my own eyes, Uncle Ed standing in the paddock, hands in his pockets, as he watched McCaslin saddle the horse.
If Uncle Ed was such a good trainer before the Vaders suspension, why as others point out, did he only win 2 races in 2008? If his string of horses were that bad, he could have picked up wins at Penn National in maiden 5K claiming races/conditional claimers with his great expertise, right?
I suspect if this "arrangement" was going on at a NYRA track or Monmouth Park, the Auwarter/McCaslin barn would have been raided by now.
Why is McCaslin allowed to saddle the horses? Is he suspended, or not? Is he allowed on the backstretch? What exactly is the arrangement here?
Bluto B. is right - at any other track, there would have been a barn raid by now.
Citation1947
04-02-2009, 11:14 PM
Why is McCaslin allowed to saddle the horses? Is he suspended, or not? Is he allowed on the backstretch? What exactly is the arrangement here?
Bluto B. is right - at any other track, there would have been a barn raid by now.
I know of a little barn in Oxford that needs raiding. :lol:
Here we go again barn raid, for what.When Pletcher was suspended who do you think was training his horses same with Asmussen same with Dutrow. Like I said Doc give Ed a couple of your horses you can win some races then maybe you will quit crying.
Here we go again barn raid, for what.When Pletcher was suspended who do you think was training his horses same with Asmussen same with Dutrow. Like I said Doc give Ed a couple of your horses you can win some races then maybe you will quit crying.
You're funny, Timp. What am I crying about? All I did was ask a few questions, questions that the general betting public would like to know. Why is McCaslin allowed to saddle horses, but not be the trainer of record? You, my friend, should look into this.
The Bit
04-03-2009, 10:58 PM
I have a friend who owns horses at Philly Park and another who was an Asst. Trainer at Philly Park ( now at Del Park ) and can add another confirmation to what Wingtips said. It isn't a secret.
Relwob Owner
04-03-2009, 11:04 PM
You're funny, Timp. What am I crying about? All I did was ask a few questions, questions that the general betting public would like to know. Why is McCaslin allowed to saddle horses, but not be the trainer of record? You, my friend, should look into this.
Ive gotten into a bunch of these discussions and understand the frustration of something being painfully obvious but having no way to really prove it....what is really depressing and frustrating is that a trainer can get caught doing something and just hand the training off to someone else and work an arrangement. Something MUST be done to make this impossible and the only way to do it is to tie things somehow to the owner or attach the suspension to the horse that blows a test as well......right now, there is just nothing, rules wise, to deter any trainer from doing things they shouldnt and that is discouraging for other owners and bettors.
TonyK@HSH
04-03-2009, 11:22 PM
Why is McCaslin allowed to saddle the horses? Is he suspended, or not? Is he allowed on the backstretch? What exactly is the arrangement here?
Bluto B. is right - at any other track, there would have been a barn raid by now.
Doc,
I'm at Pha often and do run some horses there. John is legally licensed in Pennsylvania. He acts as an assistant to Jane and now Ed. He does saddle most if not all the horses. You can ID him in the paddock by his beltloop full of tongue ties.
Jane Vaders is ruled off for the medication violations, not John
TonyK
PaceAdvantage
04-04-2009, 03:21 AM
Barn raids? :faint:
Give me a break people...try reading a bit before you type.
Hey PA, barn raids happen all the time. Here are some links:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=3544254
http://www.kentucky.com/181/story/614724.html
Maybe this is news to you?
PaceAdvantage
04-05-2009, 09:17 PM
Hey PA, barn raids happen all the time. Here are some links:
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=3544254
http://www.kentucky.com/181/story/614724.html
Maybe this is news to you?Yeah, it's news to me...:rolleyes:
For your info, barn raids tend to happen for one of two reasons. One - illegal substances. Two - illegal workers.
When is the last time you heard of a barn raid due to who was saddling the horse in the paddock?
That was the point.
Bluto Blutarsky
04-06-2009, 08:28 AM
Yeah, it's news to me...:rolleyes:
For your info, barn raids tend to happen for one of two reasons. One - illegal substances. Two - illegal workers.
When is the last time you heard of a barn raid due to who was saddling the horse in the paddock?
That was the point.
Well, raiding a barn due to who was saddling the horse in the paddock WASN'T my point or Doc's point. Raiding a barn of some one who has gone being a total zero to a Pennsylvania Super Trainer in a short period of time was the point.
Oh yeah, and Wingtips is still correct.
Wingtips
04-06-2009, 02:27 PM
Oh yeah, and Wingtips is still correct.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I joined this forum with good intentions and to contribute credibly. The "welcome" from the moderator kind of sucked.
You won't find a more fair moderator on the net.
Bluto Blutarsky
04-06-2009, 04:44 PM
You won't find a more fair moderator on the net.
to us newbies- that's a little hard to believe.
PaceAdvantage
04-06-2009, 04:51 PM
to us newbies- that's a little hard to believe.You guys want to keep making ANONYMOUS accusations with ZERO proof offered, find somewhere else. That shit doesn't fly here.
If it were up to you guys, I'm sure Allen Jerkens' barn would have been raided every time he beat a legend with some 50-1 shot...
Relwob Owner
04-06-2009, 04:53 PM
Oh yeah, and Wingtips is still correct.
Thanks. I joined this forum with good intentions and to contribute credibly. The "welcome" from the moderator kind of sucked.[/QUOTE]
I am a relatively new member and took my lumps at first on the Horse and General parts....this was my first forum ever and I did some dumb, ignorant stuff---PA was terrific in terms of conveying things to me and made me see some of the stuff that I was doing....I cant compare him to any other forum because this was my first and I dont plan on going to any other one---he does an awesome job
Bobthebuilder
04-06-2009, 08:40 PM
You guys want to keep making ANONYMOUS accusations with ZERO proof offered, find somewhere else. That shit doesn't fly here.
If it were up to you guys, I'm sure Allen Jerkens' barn would have been raided every time he beat a legend with some 50-1 shot...
Thought the first post insult of the guy was enough to shut it down???
onefast99
04-06-2009, 09:25 PM
Thanks. I joined this forum with good intentions and to contribute credibly. The "welcome" from the moderator kind of sucked.
I am a relatively new member and took my lumps at first on the Horse and General parts....this was my first forum ever and I did some dumb, ignorant stuff---PA was terrific in terms of conveying things to me and made me see some of the stuff that I was doing....I cant compare him to any other forum because this was my first and I dont plan on going to any other one---he does an awesome job[/QUOTE]
Thats all good. Hopefully he gives you something even better, a winner at the windows.
I know the subject of Ernie Paragallo has been a hot topic lately, but in keeping with the topic of this thread (Ed Auwarter), it is a fact, verified by the rescue Another Chance 4 Horses in Bernville, Pa. the same rescue that is helping the Paragallo horses, that a horse named Roses for Rebel, who last raced for Auwarter on January 19 at Philly Park, was found in a kill pen and rescued. Auwarter agreed to take the filly back to his farm and was fined $300 by Philadelphia Park management, who have enacted a "no slaughter" policy and have threatened to take stall privileges away from any trainer that does not give unwanted horses to their "Turning For Home" program and instead they end up at slaughter auctions. The only reason Auwarter was fined and not kicked off the grounds was because he agreed to take the horse back himself.
To satisfy the moderator here, following is the link/info from Another Chance 4 Horses' web site: http://www.ac4h.com/AC4HPlaced.htm
2-17-13 Thoroughbred mare approx 16 hands clean legged and trotted sound.
Roses for Rebel last raced Phil Park on January 19th.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jl1_oy7WTg
Pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/roses+for+rebel
As of this morning breeder/trainer is taking this mare back thank you so much for your help!!!
Going to AC4H for QT
The $300 fine was verified by Barbara Luna, Turning for Home administrator.
Relwob Owner
04-07-2009, 07:42 PM
]
Thats all good. Hopefully he gives you something even better, a winner at the windows.[/QUOTE]
That would be even better....btw, PA, the quotes got jumbled up and one of other new posters' displeased quotes came up under my name above and I just want to make it clear that one wasnt me....
Relwob Owner
04-07-2009, 07:54 PM
I know the subject of Ernie Paragallo has been a hot topic lately, but in keeping with the topic of this thread (Ed Auwarter), it is a fact, verified by the rescue Another Chance 4 Horses in Bernville, Pa. the same rescue that is helping the Paragallo horses, that a horse named Roses for Rebel, who last raced for Auwarter on January 19 at Philly Park, was found in a kill pen and rescued. Auwarter agreed to take the filly back to his farm and was fined $300 by Philadelphia Park management, who have enacted a "no slaughter" policy and have threatened to take stall privileges away from any trainer that does not give unwanted horses to their "Turning For Home" program and instead they end up at slaughter auctions. The only reason Auwarter was fined and not kicked off the grounds was because he agreed to take the horse back himself.
To satisfy the moderator here, following is the link/info from Another Chance 4 Horses' web site: http://www.ac4h.com/AC4HPlaced.htm
2-17-13 Thoroughbred mare approx 16 hands clean legged and trotted sound.
Roses for Rebel last raced Phil Park on January 19th.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jl1_oy7WTg
Pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/roses+for+rebel
As of this morning breeder/trainer is taking this mare back thank you so much for your help!!!
Going to AC4H for QT
The $300 fine was verified by Barbara Luna, Turning for Home administrator.
A $300 fine is all? Doesnt this seem kind of light? And they didnt ban him because they took him back himself, putting the horse back in the place where he/she started? If these are the facts, then it is just another example of how lax and poorly enforced punishments are in this sport.
onefast99
04-07-2009, 08:21 PM
]
Thats all good. Hopefully he gives you something even better, a winner at the windows.
That would be even better....btw, PA, the quotes got jumbled up and one of other new posters' displeased quotes came up under my name above and I just want to make it clear that one wasnt me....[/QUOTE]
Derby fever is here!!!!
Saratoga_Mike
04-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Turning for Home.
I raced a couple times at the PHA last yr, and each time a $10 debit showed up under "Turning for Home" on my statement. I didn't know what it was and didn't bother calling the horsemen's bookkeeper to find out.
So is Turning for Home the PHA's t'bred retirement fund? If so, I think the $10 deduction is a great idea. Actually, I think the amount should be higher.
Separately I donate to the T'bred Retirement Fund. If you can afford to own a race horse, you can afford to make a donation of 1% to 2% of your horses' winnings, imo.
onefast99
04-07-2009, 08:56 PM
Turning for Home.
I raced a couple times at the PHA last yr, and each time a $10 debit showed up under "Turning for Home" on my statement. I didn't know what it was and didn't bother calling the horsemen's bookkeeper to find out.
So is Turning for Home the PHA's t'bred retirement fund? If so, I think the $10 deduction is a great idea. Actually, I think the amount should be higher.
Separately I donate to the T'bred Retirement Fund. If you can afford to own a race horse, you can afford to make a donation of 1% to 2% of your horses' winnings, imo.
Yes that is the retirement foundation. Every owner will have that deduction from their purse monies at PP. The foundation also is open to outside donations. This is a good way to keep money flowing in to a very worthy cause. I'm shocked other tracks don't do it, especially NY tracks who take out for backstretch insurance, jockey club foundation, backstretch pension and NY jockey injury comp they total up to $385 for finishing 2nd in a race!
As usual all facts not told horse was given away for riding horse to one person who in turn did not like her so he sent her to another person who then sent her to sale. Ed had nothing to do with sending her to the sale.
PaceAdvantage
04-08-2009, 03:03 AM
To satisfy the moderator here, following is the link/info from Another Chance 4 Horses' web site: http://www.ac4h.com/AC4HPlaced.htmSo sorry to have to put you out like that...:lol:
PaceAdvantage
04-08-2009, 03:05 AM
As usual all facts not told horse was given away for riding horse to one person who in turn did not like her so he sent her to another person who then sent her to sale. Ed had nothing to do with sending her to the sale.So, for argument's sake, a guy like Auwarter can sell or give away a horse who can no longer compete to some RIDING STABLE. Then, a year or two later, that riding stable sells the horse to the killers, some group saves the horse at the last minute, inputs its lip tattoo into a database, finds out the horse last raced for Auwarter a year or two ago, and BOOM, Auwarter gets nailed?
Doesn't sound very fair to me. Does that sounds fair to you Doc?
onefast99
04-08-2009, 07:43 AM
So, for argument's sake, a guy like Auwarter can sell or give away a horse who can no longer compete to some RIDING STABLE. Then, a year or two later, that riding stable sells the horse to the killers, some group saves the horse at the last minute, inputs its lip tattoo into a database, finds out the horse last raced for Auwarter a year or two ago, and BOOM, Auwarter gets nailed?
Doesn't sound very fair to me. Does that sounds fair to you Doc?
You hit the nail right on the head many owners and trainers are criticized long after they gave the horse to what they thought was its new and final home but it ends up months or even years later at a slaughter facility. Maybe the rescue foundations, if involved, need to keep track of this so no one is wrongly accused of doing something they had no control over.
So, for argument's sake, a guy like Auwarter can sell or give away a horse who can no longer compete to some RIDING STABLE. Then, a year or two later, that riding stable sells the horse to the killers, some group saves the horse at the last minute, inputs its lip tattoo into a database, finds out the horse last raced for Auwarter a year or two ago, and BOOM, Auwarter gets nailed?
Doesn't sound very fair to me. Does that sounds fair to you Doc?
The horse last raced on Jan. 19 for Auwarter. It was found at New Holland about 3 weeks later. Can the situation be any clearer for you? The horse was racing fit when they picked it out of the kill pen. I think the fair thing to do would be to yank Auwarter's stalls, don't you, PA?
As usual all facts not told horse was given away for riding horse to one person who in turn did not like her so he sent her to another person who then sent her to sale. Ed had nothing to do with sending her to the sale.
This is hearsay, timp. Plus, "I gave the horse away for a riding horse" is the oldest excuse in the book. If trainers were smart, and REALLY did give a horse away for pleasure purposes, they would do themselves well to get a bill of sale for a nominal amount, like $1.00, to prove the horse changed hands. This riding horse crap doesn't fly anymore, and besides, 99 percent of the time it isn't true. Timp, you say all the FACTS weren't told, but you have no proof. I provided proof the horse was found in a killer pen. Can you - or can Auwarter - provide proof?
Sure can Doc this man has 70 acre farm with horses turned out there that he's been feeding for 15 years .Has no reason to send one to the killers. You my friend have a problem ,first thing you are talking all this garbage and have never even met the man our talked to him.It's a shame when someone has that much envy to say the things you come up with. The thing to do is check with the sale company who brought the horse there then answer is gotten .What a surprise we'll have than.Best thing for you is to stick to handicapping. Leave the accusations at the door.Enough for now you won't be able to digest to much at once.Try to have a peaceful day.
Bluto Blutarsky
04-08-2009, 02:37 PM
Doc
I appreciate all the homework you have done on this.
Thanks for posting.
Keep it up.
This is the original posting from the Alex Brown web site. Roses for Rebel was purchased by a broker (killer buyer) on Feb. 16, found there by AC4H:
From: keb273 (http://forums.delphiforums.com/dir-app/bbCard/profile.asp?webtag=alexbrown&uid=1871538354) Feb-18 8:51 pm To: ALL (1 of 205) 33890.1 (http://forums.delphiforums.com/alexbrown/messages?msg=33890.1) This mare was purchased by a broker through the New Holland auction on Monday. She last raced at Philadelphia Park on January 19th. We contacted Turning for Home as well to let them know she is on a broker lot. Her name is Roses for Rebel.
Is there anyone out there who can take in this lovely lady? There are also two other tb's on the lot which can be seen at www.ac4h.com/brokerownedhorses.htm (http://www.ac4h.com/brokerownedhorses.htm) Please ask if you have questions or an idea. - Update...this lovely lady is going home to her breeder :) There are still 2 tb geldings in need of homes so check out the rest of the thread. Thanks everyone!!!
http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww190/AC4HAlbum/Feb%2017%20Broker%20Horses/DSC02256-2.jpg?t=1235008281
2-17-13 Thoroughbred mare approx 16 hands clean legged and trotted sound. Roses for Rebel last raced Phil Park on January 19th.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jl1_oy7WTg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jl1_oy7WTg) Pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/roses+for+rebel (http://www.pedigreequery.com/roses+for+rebel)
$500.00
Keb273 Wiki Page (http://www.alexbrownracing.com/wiki/index.php/%20%20Keb273) - edited to add the update
Edited 2/19/2009 12:33 pm ET by keb273 http://acx.prospero.com/dir-app/icon.aspx?realmId=0&iconTypeId=4&iconName=opt Options (http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/forward.asp?webtag=alexbrown&msg=33890.1) http://acx.prospero.com/dir-app/icon.aspx?realmId=0&iconTypeId=5&iconName=pReply (http://forums.delphiforums.com/alexbrown/?msg=33890.1&post=y&guest=y)
Wingtips
04-08-2009, 04:42 PM
Who last owned Roses for Rebel when she ran in January? Or, should I ask, what owner will plead stupidity when he/she is asked how their horse wound up where she did a month after she ran?
The owner was Little Timber Ranch LLC. Breeder is James K. Doyle.
Wingtips
04-08-2009, 05:40 PM
There's a Little Timber Ranch listed in Berlin, NJ. Is that Ed's place?
For those that get Simulcast Daily from DRF, there is a comically bad "Trainer Profile: Ed Auwarter" in this week's edition.
Citation1947
04-17-2009, 03:53 PM
Killers usually support or defend other killers. It's a fact!
blueeyes
05-18-2009, 08:16 AM
All you experts that keep writing about "juicing" don't know that the jokes on you,the so-called juice can be purchased at the PTHA tack shop.Keep showing your intelligence,it's amusing!
blueeyes
05-18-2009, 08:32 AM
You keep mentioning "juicing",don't you realize the joke is on you? The so-called juice can be purchased at the PTHA tack shop.You should do your homework before accusing people of doing something,especially when you have no clue!Unless you have actually spent time in the barn with these people I don't see how you can know anything about them.(By the way, I have)But I'm sure your tiny minds will still find something or somebody to complain about. I hope you do, some of the comments are quite amusing!!
Saratoga_Mike
05-18-2009, 08:58 AM
You keep mentioning "juicing",don't you realize the joke is on you? The so-called juice can be purchased at the PTHA tack shop.You should do your homework before accusing people of doing something,especially when you have no clue!Unless you have actually spent time in the barn with these people I don't see how you can know anything about them.(By the way, I have)But I'm sure your tiny minds will still find something or somebody to complain about. I hope you do, some of the comments are quite amusing!!
I haven't accused anyone of anything, but I am curious what the PTHA tack shop sells that enhances performance, as you suggest. Please do tell.
Yes, I'm waiting too.
This ought to be good.
onefast99
05-18-2009, 02:22 PM
You keep mentioning "juicing",don't you realize the joke is on you? The so-called juice can be purchased at the PTHA tack shop.You should do your homework before accusing people of doing something,especially when you have no clue!Unless you have actually spent time in the barn with these people I don't see how you can know anything about them.(By the way, I have)But I'm sure your tiny minds will still find something or somebody to complain about. I hope you do, some of the comments are quite amusing!!
Two posts and you are coming into a pretty played out post with some new information about the tack shop selling juice? I saw a bottle of Martinellis apple cider there once but I think it belonged to the cashier.
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