Rules for Scratching

[MickJ26]

I know the vets and stewards can stratch a horse at any time. Can the trainer scratch his horse at the last second if he doesn't like the way the track is playing? Thanks.

[sonnyp]

a trainer can scratch out of a stake race before the designated time of the jourisdiction (usually an hour before post time) and needs no reason for the scratch. hence, a horse may be entered in stake races at different tracks on the same day without risk of violating any rules and is often done.

the rule in overnight races requires a steward or vet slip for the horse submitted the morning of the race. the stewards in thorobred racing are VERY lienent and offer little resistence to trainers wishing to scratch which often decimates fields.

in harness racing overnites, if you wish to scratch, you'd better have a good reason. thus, most harness races go as carded.

[point given]

a trainer can scratch out of a stake race before the designated time of the jourisdiction (usually an hour before post time) and needs no reason for the scratch. hence, a horse may be entered in stake races at different tracks on the same day without risk of violating any rules and is often done.



This is particularly true in the midlantic area during the summer where there is a plethora of tracks running meets at the same time. Particularly hit is Delaware and Monmouth with cross entered horses in stakes races, as the trainer can see where the greatest purse is with the weakest field. In florida on the calder grand slam days in december, horses have been cross entered in more than one stakes on the same program and you don't know til later on in the program who is scratched from what race , not many , but still . :ThmbDown:

[MickJ26]

This is particularly true in the midlantic area during the summer where there is a plethora of tracks running meets at the same time. Particularly hit is Delaware and Monmouth with cross entered horses in stakes races, as the trainer can see where the greatest purse is with the weakest field. In florida on the calder grand slam days in december, horses have been cross entered in more than one stakes on the same program and you don't know til later on in the program who is scratched from what race , not many , but still . :ThmbDown:


So, as the Gulfstream card is playing out, Todd Pletcher notices the track is favouring horses on the front end, therefore compromising Dunkirk's chances. Pletcher scratched his "rabbit" earlier in the card. Was it his ego or ignorance that prevented him from scratching Dunkirk? Did Pletcher feel obligated to GP management to run the horse?

[Imriledup]

So, as the Gulfstream card is playing out, Todd Pletcher notices the track is favouring horses on the front end, therefore compromising Dunkirk's chances. Pletcher scratched his "rabbit" earlier in the card. Was it his ego or ignorance that prevented him from scratching Dunkirk? Did Pletcher feel obligated to GP management to run the horse?

I think TAPs complaint was that they changed the track for this specific day to create fast times (and the illusion that great horses compete at Gulfstream. Hence the Collmus screaming 'track record' after every race)

If he had an inkling that the track was going to be altered, he should have been out in the morning watching the crew work on the surface. He could have scratched the morning of the race. Isn't the wood next week? He could have just scratched and waited for that race instead.

This is a good question.

[point given]

I think TAPs complaint was that they changed the track for this specific day to create fast times (and the illusion that great horses compete at Gulfstream. Hence the Collmus screaming 'track record' after every race)

If he had an inkling that the track was going to be altered, he should have been out in the morning watching the crew work on the surface. He could have scratched the morning of the race. Isn't the wood next week? He could have just scratched and waited for that race instead.

This is a good question.
My guess is that Todd second guessed himself and felt he was put between a rock and a hard place so to speak. Alot of attention and all for Dunkirk, and it would come down on his head if he were to scratch, although that is what he felt like doing . Yes, he could have scratched and the race would have fallen apart , so he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't .We are not privy to the conversation he had with the track pres. I would think he would have voiced his concerns during the week when the surface changed due to the rain they had which tightened up the track (so they say) He could have lobbied the track pres for a fair surface and maybe they assured him it would be and then they didnt . Look at Dutrow who scratched Danger To Society to run in the Wood, not a mention of that one now and Dutrow must be laughing as he is not taking the brunt of it but Todd is for once.

[Imriledup]

Good post PG, maybe TAP's post race comments was him being mad at himself for running.

I'll never understand why tracks tell their supers to soup up the tracks for big days....tracks have been doing this for years and it really doesn't make sense why they do it.

I dont think that they realize that even if the times are fast, the Beyer figs will take that into account. Screaming 'track record' means nothing unless the beyer fig is in the 120s. The track record stuff is meaningless if the horse setting the record is 'just a horse'.

Screaming 'track record' is really just screaming 'we made our surface really fast today, aren't we special!" as opposed to "the horse who set the track record is a special animal and that's why he broke the record"

[jotb]

So, as the Gulfstream card is playing out, Todd Pletcher notices the track is favouring horses on the front end, therefore compromising Dunkirk's chances. Pletcher scratched his "rabbit" earlier in the card. Was it his ego or ignorance that prevented him from scratching Dunkirk? Did Pletcher feel obligated to GP management to run the horse?

I don't believe it ever ran through Pletcher's mind to scr. Dunkirk. He needed to win the Florida Derby so that he would have enough purse earnings to run in the Kentucky Derby. A win in the Florida Derby was worth 450k to the winner which would have easily put Dunkirk in the starting field. Since, he finished 2nd in the Florida Derby he picked up 150k which puts Dunkirk close. It was suppose to be Dunkirk's last race before the Derby. Don't forget it cost money to run a horse in the Florida Derby. The regular closing fee is $3,000, $7,500 to pass the entry box and another $7,500 to start. No ego or ignorance on Pletcher's part. I don't think he had much choice.

Joe

[onefast99]

So, as the Gulfstream card is playing out, Todd Pletcher notices the track is favouring horses on the front end, therefore compromising Dunkirk's chances. Pletcher scratched his "rabbit" earlier in the card. Was it his ego or ignorance that prevented him from scratching Dunkirk? Did Pletcher feel obligated to GP management to run the horse?
The track had been fast all week as of Wednesday in the 4th race where American revolution set a track record breaking the old one by 2/5ths of a second. Todd knew the track was playing fast, he also had winners in the past on very fast GP surfaces. He did have the right to complain but as stated before every horse ran on the same surface.

[slewis]

Here's a quick story about 5 yrs ago regarding late scratches.


Jeff Odintz once entered a horse to race on the turf. The horse had no pedigree and, if I remember correctly, had one or two previous starts and raced poorly, so he was "throwing darts" and trying him on the grass. Then, he decided it was a stupid idea, and he tries to scratch, but it was too late.
He called the racing office, using I guess the usuall excuses. They spoke to the stewards.
Davis HIcks, NYRA steward called Odintz back and said "You're running".

Odintz replied, "I dont even have the right shoes on this horse to race on the turf".

Hicks, according to Odintz, replied "Well, you'd better get the right shoes on, or race him with none, because you're running".
Odintz, facing possible fine, quickly found a blacksmith.

The horse wound up winning the race at over 30-1 !

[jotb]

Here's a quick story about 5 yrs ago regarding late scratches.


Jeff Odintz once entered a horse to race on the turf. The horse had no pedigree and, if I remember correctly, had one or two previous starts and raced poorly, so he was "throwing darts" and trying him on the grass. Then, he decided it was a stupid idea, and he tries to scratch, but it was too late.
He called the racing office, using I guess the usuall excuses. They spoke to the stewards.
Davis HIcks, NYRA steward called Odintz back and said "You're running".

Odintz replied, "I dont even have the right shoes on this horse to race on the turf".

Hicks, according to Odintz, replied "Well, you'd better get the right shoes on, or race him with none, because you're running".
Odintz, facing possible fine, quickly found a blacksmith.

The horse wound up winning the race at over 30-1 !

Had to be more than 5 year's ago. Jeff has only won 2 turf races in the last 10 year's. He won on the turf in 2008 at 9-1. The other turf winner came in 1999 on a horse by the name of Valid Victor on June 26th 1999. The horse went off at odds of 63-1.

Joe

[onefast99]

Here's a quick story about 5 yrs ago regarding late scratches.


Jeff Odintz once entered a horse to race on the turf. The horse had no pedigree and, if I remember correctly, had one or two previous starts and raced poorly, so he was "throwing darts" and trying him on the grass. Then, he decided it was a stupid idea, and he tries to scratch, but it was too late.
He called the racing office, using I guess the usuall excuses. They spoke to the stewards.
Davis HIcks, NYRA steward called Odintz back and said "You're running".

Odintz replied, "I dont even have the right shoes on this horse to race on the turf".

Hicks, according to Odintz, replied "Well, you'd better get the right shoes on, or race him with none, because you're running".
Odintz, facing possible fine, quickly found a blacksmith.

The horse wound up winning the race at over 30-1 !
Thats better then a trainer running down to the track looking for his horse with 8 minutes until post trying to scratch him because he found out someone dropped a claim in on him! They didnt scratch the horse, he didnt win he got claimed and won 3/4 over the next 15 weeks.

[MickJ26]

I don't believe it ever ran through Pletcher's mind to scr. Dunkirk. He needed to win the Florida Derby so that he would have enough purse earnings to run in the Kentucky Derby. A win in the Florida Derby was worth 450k to the winner which would have easily put Dunkirk in the starting field. Since, he finished 2nd in the Florida Derby he picked up 150k which puts Dunkirk close. It was suppose to be Dunkirk's last race before the Derby. Don't forget it cost money to run a horse in the Florida Derby. The regular closing fee is $3,000, $7,500 to pass the entry box and another $7,500 to start. No ego or ignorance on Pletcher's part. I don't think he had much choice.

Joe


I'm sure Dunkirk was nominated to all the Derby preps. Besides, Dunkirk cost $3.7 million, so a few extra nomination fees aren't going to break the bank. Since Dunkirk was already saddled up and ready to go, Pletcher rolled the dice. They didn't want to have to go through the inconvenience of unsaddling the horse, loading into a van, flight to New York or Kentucky, detention barn, etc. Todd Pletcher is Gulfstream's favourite son. He brings the best horses in his stable to run at the GP meet. I'm quite surprised they didn't slant the track to benefit Dunkirk.