PTC TO HAVE ALL THE CHURCHILL TRACKS

[markum77]

I SEE PTC NOW HAS ALLTHE CHURCHILL TRACKS... BUT NO REBATES. I HEAR ITS GOING TO BE A REALLY SMALL REBATE DEAL.

[BillW]

I SEE PTC NOW HAS ALLTHE CHURCHILL TRACKS... BUT NO REBATES. I HEAR ITS GOING TO BE A REALLY SMALL REBATE DEAL.

SOURCE?

[pktruckdriver]

PTC STILL WILL NOT RUN ON MY COMPUTER! :bang:



PATRICK

[markum77]

No good investigative jounalist gives up his source :lol:

Its a done deal.. check your rate sheet..

[MNslappy]

Wow.....I logged in to check it out and yep, there they are in the track list, Calder and Churchill.

It might be a bit presumptous, but I would guess compromising on the rebates might have been one of the key issues that led to Ian leaving. When it came to fighting for the players, Ian was a great champion of the cause, and I bet this would've been an issue he was not prepared to given in on.

[DeanT]

If there are no rebates they have lost their edge. Every business needs a differentiating edge and theirs was rebates. Why use PTC when you can use Twinspires, get some neat free PP's and Twinspires TV? I hope there are rebates and this is simply an oversight.

[markum77]

How would you feel about 2 percent...lol.......thats 20 bucks on every thousand.. Buy all the stock you can in twinspires, they are slowly slowly taking over. Soon not even whales can get more than 4 %, I bet thats the goal. Of course thats only going to be thru them. Gotta hand it to them they are succeeding. Soon they will buy all the small tracks too and bye bye rebates there too.

[BillW]

I think I'll just take up something else and leave the 2% to someone else. It's not worth the effort.

[trying2win]

MARKUM:

Thanks for the tip on the expanded track listings for PTC.

I see in the 'MY RATES' section of PTC, not only do they have the CHURCHILL DOWNS GROUP tracks, but they have all the MAGNA tracks listed as well. Holy cow! Plus, Pompano Park for the harness players. That is really something.

As for the no rebates listed, I believe that was common in the past when a new track was coming on board at PTC. It takes awhile to get all the contracts negotiated as for signal rates etc, before PTC can list any rebate percentages.

I've noticed a trend over the past few years that there has been been higher signal rate settlements for the thoroughbred interests. That of course, leaves ADWS less money to offer their customers for rebates. For example, I've noticed this trend in STRAIGHT BET rebates at PTC over the last few years...i.e. more PTC thoroughbred track listings are now less than 5 %. Better than nothing....however, I don't like this continued downward trend compared to harness race percentage rebates. I still think militant throughbred horsemen groups are too greedy comared to their harness race counterparts. In my opinion, If anyone should be getting more cash back first, it should be the customers (the bettors) not the thoroughbred horsemen groups.

Anyway, it should be interesting to see what PTC will offer for rebates on these expanded track listings in the near future.

T2W

[RichieP]

PTC rebates on the upcoming Evd meet (4/8 opening)are still super cool and believe me MANY folks have a better rate than I do as I am a little bettor.

After seeing the Evd track take PTC rebates on that track have practically cut the takeout in half and that IS significant.

Full fields and a PTC rebate :jump:

I'm going back to "old school" ways and am coming out of a self imposed retirement to bet Evd through PTC and nothing else. One track and a single minded focus on it.

Lastly a HUGE thank you to CJ. This young man is a GIANT among men in today's racing scene. I appreciate all he does :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

Cajun time!

Attached are Evd takes BEFORE the great rebates offered by PTC

May everyone be Blessed with fast horses and even faster women :kiss:

[markum77]

yes they pay diff rates depending on if the bets are called in versus on computers, I do know that any tvg track you bet on will have a very low rebate, unless the bets are called in. The tracks dont like the advertisement of the rebates or its bye bye signal. I am not talking about the 2% rebates. I have heard they have a slew of auditors now visiting the adw to see if the million is being met by the large bettors. I personally feel it is very much harder to bet a million and still make money. I know a few that do it and its o nly on huge superfecta rebates and large bets on large pools...

[DeanT]

I have heard they have a slew of auditors now visiting the adw to see if the million is being met by the large bettors.

Now this would be interesting. Bean counters in a business infected with them.

Investigator 1: "They have 16 players getting 9% rebates who only bet $900,000."
Racing Dude: "That does not meet the threshold. Get them to tell their players that they will now get a 2% rebate instead"
I1: "They say that if they do that those players will leave and play a fraction of what they play. They say it will hurt handle"
Racing Dude: "Does not matter, plus it is probably nonsense. These players are degenerates. They will still play their 900k a year, you just watch! We will make more money off them."
I1: "Makes sense"

Six months later a headline on the Paulick Report:

"Handle Down Again - Economy Blamed"

[Cangamble]

Now this would be interesting. Bean counters in a business infected with them.

Investigator 1: "They have 16 players getting 9% rebates who only bet $900,000."
Racing Dude: "That does not meet the threshold. Get them to tell their players that they will now get a 2% rebate instead"
I1: "They say that if they do that those players will leave and play a fraction of what they play. They say it will hurt handle"
Racing Dude: "Does not matter, plus it is probably nonsense. These players are degenerates. They will still play their 900k a year, you just watch! We will make more money off them."
I1: "Makes sense"

Six months later a headline on the Paulick Report:

"Handle Down Again - Economy Blamed"
:) Funny stuff.

But it boils down to this. Why do they care how the ADW splits up their share of each bet they receive? Do Wal Mart suppliers even have a say in how Wal Mart marks up the prices they give to consumers?

[Cangamble]

It is actually pretty farcical.

Tracknet: "Our auditors found that you have 10 clients who fell under the threshold"

ADW: So what do you want us to do?

Tracknet: We want you to get the money back from your clients and keep it for yourselves instead. And in the future, you are to only give those customers 2% rebates, and we want YOU TO KEEP THE DIFFERENCE.

ADW: But there could be an extra 6% bet into the pools instead of being put in our pockets.

Tracknet: Don't bore me with your capitalistic nonsense.

[trying2win]

It is actually pretty farcical.

Tracknet: "Our auditors found that you have 10 clients who fell under the threshold"

ADW: So what do you want us to do?

Tracknet: We want you to get the money back from your clients and keep it for yourselves instead. And in the future, you are to only give those customers 2% rebates, and we want YOU TO KEEP THE DIFFERENCE.

ADW: But there could be an extra 6% bet into the pools instead of being put in our pockets.

Tracknet: Don't bore me with your capitalistic nonsense.

CANGAMBLE:

:D Funny stuff you posted here :ThmbUp:. It may be closer to the truth than many people think.

I neglected to mention in one of my earlier posts in this thread, about more of of PTC's thoroughbred tracks offering less than a 5 % rebate on STRAIGHT BETS. I'm a smaller bettor, so it's quite possible a lot of these tracks that at are offering less than 5 % now on let's say my win bets, may still be offering 5 % or more to the bigger bettors at PTC.

T2W

[hencicleva]

I've only just joined PTC and on my schedule tracks vary from 2 to 5% rebate. Is there a prospect of more than 5% on any track if my handle goes up, (but before I get to a million). Or is this a taboo question?

[Charli125]

They are showing all tracks on the rebate list, but they still don't show up on the website. Maybe it's just not finalized yet, but I don't see any way to bet them.

[spitthebit]

I just spoke with them. The operations people are waiting for an authorization to activate the TrackNet tracks. I asked what kind of rebates were likely and was told 2% across the board.

Better than a sharp stick in the eye, but not enough to make these additions worthwhile for me to want to play them.

[pktruckdriver]

PTC STILL WILL NOT RUN ON MY COMPUTER! :bang:



PATRICK


I wiped my computer clean of Vista and still can not pull up PTC,WHY??



Patrick

[dutchboy]

Not sure what you mean when you say you cannot pull up PTC. Are you trying to access the website?

I have a laptop with Vista and do not have a problem. I just typed "premier turf club" in to google and the website appeared in a second.

I wiped my computer clean of Vista and still can not pull up PTC,WHY??



Patrick

[trying2win]

I just spoke with them. The operations people are waiting for an authorization to activate the TrackNet tracks. I asked what kind of rebates were likely and was told 2% across the board.

Uh! Only 2 % for my straight bets at PTC for Tracknet tracks? No thanks. If Ian Meyers was still there at PTC, and was willing to accept the Tracknet track terms for getting them aboard, I'd be willing to go along with 2 % for my bets to help out. But, since Ian is no longer with PTC...FUHGETTABOUTIT! I can get 3 to 5 % at some offshore racebooks for my win bets. Loyalty only goes so far for me to the remaining executives at PTC.

Nevertheless, the rebates offered for many of PTC'S other partner tracks are still quite generous and should be considered.

Some bettors are willing to forego cash rebates at many ADWS, citing they 'need to' or 'have to' have live video in order to handicap properly in order to make money at the races. I disagree with that notion. Show me the money! But, to each their own. As for me, I don't want to bet at any ADW or offshore racebook without getting a rebate. Having said that, I confess to still keeping some money in an account with HPI and making the odd bet there. Why? Contradicting my earlier statement? Nope! I don't use HPI much anymore. It's mainly a back-up plan betting site, in case one of the other betting sites I use goes on the blink.

T2W

[pktruckdriver]

Not sure what you mean when you say you cannot pull up PTC. Are you trying to access the website?

I have a laptop with Vista and do not have a problem. I just typed "premier turf club" in to google and the website appeared in a second.

yep that's what I am saying.

See I had trouble before w/this laptop, now I had it wiped and XP out on it ad still I can't get PTC to come up???????



I don't know why



patrick

[trying2win]

yep that's what I am saying.

See I had trouble before w/this laptop, now I had it wiped and XP out on it ad still I can't get PTC to come up???????



I don't know why



patrick

Hi Patrick:

I don't know what broswer you use on your computer, but sometimes I've had trouble accessing some sites using INTERNET EXPLORER 7. However, when I switched over to the FIREFOX browser, there was no problem at all.

T2W

[pktruckdriver]

Hi Patrick:

I don't know what broswer you use on your computer, but sometimes I've had trouble accessing some sites using INTERNET EXPLORER 7. However, when I switched over to the FIREFOX browser, there was no problem at all.

T2W

IE7 yes, maybe firefox will work. thanks


For awhile i thought this computer would always be screwed up.


Patrick

[trying2win]

I just spoke with them. The operations people are waiting for an authorization to activate the TrackNet tracks. I asked what kind of rebates were likely and was told 2% across the board.

I wonder if that possible 2 % on TRACKNET tracks at PTC was dictated as a maximum by TRACKNET in a contract...or...whether the asking signal rate for TRACKNET tracks is so high, that PTC would be unable to offer any higher rebate to its customers?

T2W

[dutchboy]

You replied: "I had it wiped and xp out on it ad still"
What in the heck are you talking about?

Do you even know what the website address is? Maybe your problem is you cannot spell well enough to type the correct address. If you want help don't use stupid font or find a 6 grade student to help with your writing.

I think you are beyond help so I will no longer try.
yep that's what I am saying.

See I had trouble before w/this laptop, now I had it wiped and XP out on it ad still I can't get PTC to come up???????



I don't know why



patrick

[Track Collector]

I wonder if that possible 2 % on TRACKNET tracks at PTC was dictated as a maximum by TRACKNET in a contract...or...whether the asking signal rate for TRACKNET tracks is so high, that PTC would be unable to offer any higher rebate to its customers?

T2W

I suspect the latter. Based on my conversation with an ADW, the TrackNet signals are very expensive, and have additional source market fees on ALL wagers for those who live in states where there are TrackNet (Magna/CDI) tracks. :mad: I guess their thinking is that you "should" be placing all your wagers at the live track or local OTW, and by wagering thru an ADW TrackNet is losing money entitled to them. :eek:

When TrackNet keeps more money rather than allowing ADW's to rebate it to their customers, I focus the majority of my play on OTHER tracks! I'm sure many other players do the same. :p

[ceejay]

I guess their thinking is that you "should" be placing all your wagers at the live track or local OTW, and by wagering thru an ADW TrackNet is losing money entitled to them. :eek:

i guess they do not agree with me: the horse racing world is flat.

[Jeff P]

FWIW, someone pretty high up in management at a TrackNet track recently told me with a straight face:

If an ADW can afford to rebate ANYTHING back to the customer then that ADW is not paying enough for the track signal in the first place.

Not surprisingly, MEC filed for bankruptcy not long after he said that.


-jp

.

[Cangamble]

FWIW, someone pretty high up in management at a TrackNet track recently told me with a straight face:



Not surprisingly, MEC filed for bankruptcy not long after he said that.


-jp

.
Tracknet's policy of making the the ADW only pay 2% is completely senseless.
What they are saying is that the ADW must keep the difference between the signal fee and the takeout minus 2%.
So the ADW has no choice but to make more money for themselves instead of rebating more money back to players who would almost certainly bet back the extra rebated money, which would be good for racetracks.
Instead, Tracknet's idiocy does the same thing as government withholding on big cashes in the USA. It takes money that would be bet out of circulation.

[startngate]

Tracknet's policy of making the the ADW only pay 2% is completely senseless.
What they are saying is that the ADW must keep the difference between the signal fee and the takeout minus 2%.
So the ADW has no choice but to make more money for themselves instead of rebating more money back to players who would almost certainly bet back the extra rebated money, which would be good for racetracks.
Instead, Tracknet's idiocy does the same thing as government withholding on big cashes in the USA. It takes money that would be bet out of circulation.I would guess it's more likely that they have raised the host fee rates to the point that 2% is all the ADW can afford to rebate.

[Cangamble]

I would guess it's more likely that they have raised the host fee rates to the point that 2% is all the ADW can afford to rebate.
I'm 100% sure that is not the case. They are putting restrictions on ADWs to not allow more than a 2% rebate, regardless of the signal fee. Even if you think about it, a signal fee a track charges is a constant, yet tracks usually have a much higher takeout on exotics, especially triactors and supers.
So on those bets alone, ADWs who can afford to give 2% on win bets, should be able to afford to give a bigger rebate on triactors. But Tracknet forbids it.

[rrbauer]

Tracknet's policy of making the the ADW only pay 2% is completely senseless.
What they are saying is that the ADW must keep the difference between the signal fee and the takeout minus 2%.


Think abour their motivation for this. The party line is that ADW's are making too much money and that the horse owners and race tracks should get more of the money currently going to the ADW's. This is where the "1/3 for me, 1/3 for you and 1/3 for them" model originated.

Consider that TrackNet reps some of the largest tracks in the country; and, is the sibling of two of the larger ADW's in the country, Twin Spires and XpressBet. By restricting their competitors' ability to pay rebates and generate more business, to the level that their siblings are paying, they are inhibiting their siblings' competition by removing a key component of their competitors' ability to differentiate their product; AND, they are creating a business model that only has two-poiints in it for rewards, etc. so when the horse owners come banging their 1/3-drums, TN can say that there isn't enough in the pie to share any further.

The TN approach also mitigates our (myself and the rest of the anti-takeout crowd) argument that large takeouts are the fuel for large rebates by restricting the rebates. Ergo, there are no large rebates therefore takeout must not be too high.

I have a better idea for all of this nonsense: Stop betting!

[DeanT]

Very sharp analysis Rich.

I think we both agree that this policy, say ten years from now, will play a part in the games destruction as a major gambling force.

[Charli125]

I understand everyone complaining that it's "only" a 2% rebate. But being able to bet legally and get a rebate, while not being a whale, sounds great to me. I'd of course like to have more, but Gulfstream is the track I pour the most money into, so that 2% really adds up.

I've not been in the game for as long as most of you, and I'm not a big better, so maybe my expectations are just too low. I though, am thrilled to be able to get 2% back on Churchill tracks, and this will cause me to move most of my cash from Twinspires and Youbet into PTC.

[rrbauer]

I understand everyone complaining that it's "only" a 2% rebate. But being able to bet legally and get a rebate, while not being a whale, sounds great to me. I'd of course like to have more, but Gulfstream is the track I pour the most money into, so that 2% really adds up.

I've not been in the game for as long as most of you, and I'm not a big better, so maybe my expectations are just too low. I though, am thrilled to be able to get 2% back on Churchill tracks, and this will cause me to move most of my cash from Twinspires and Youbet into PTC.

You take what you can get. But, when there is interference with the marketplace by the monopoly-mentalities that exist throughout this game and in this case at TrackNet; and, you realize that without their interference that your rebate would be three times as much, then annoyance with the process replaces any pleasure that a few pennies provides.

[Charli125]

You take what you can get. But, when there is interference with the marketplace by the monopoly-mentalities that exist throughout this game and in this case at TrackNet; and, you realize that without their interference that your rebate would be three times as much, then annoyance with the process replaces any pleasure that a few pennies provides.

That makes sense. I think it's just a case of me not knowing what I should expect. Ignorance is bliss!

[trying2win]

You take what you can get. But, when there is interference with the marketplace by the monopoly-mentalities that exist throughout this game and in this case at TrackNet; and, you realize that without their interference that your rebate would be three times as much, then annoyance with the process replaces any pleasure that a few pennies provides.

Good post Richard :ThmbUp:

The executives at HPI are another group of monopoly-minded characters that deserve all the scorn they've received from horseplayers in the past. Sure would be nice to see some investors start up a rebate ADW in Canada to compete with HPI. Who do you think would be the more successful of the two then? :D It would 'make my day' to see HPI go out of business, or make them sweat a lot about their future. :)

I've also mentioned many times in the past that when you see the names TOC, THG, TRACKNET, that it's usually bad news for horseplayers. What with the latest news of only a 2 % rebate for PTC customers across-the-board on their bets, allegedly because of TRACKNET'S dictating terms...that's a ridiculous rebate! :ThmbDown:

I suppose TRACKNET will say the excuse that Frankie's EXPRESSBET is only paying 2 % at Santa Anita, and since Frankie owns Santa Anita, you can't expect other ADWS to be allowed to pay a higher rebate than they do at EXPRESSBET.

One of my favorite ways in the past to express displeasure with some of these greedy, despicable, self-serving groups mentioned above that start with a 'T' or 'H', is to tell them directly in an email something like:

"Unless I get a half-decent rebate, I will continue to bet at ADW'S like LINK2BET or at PTC, but only non-TRACKNET tracks at PTC, or at offshorse racebooks like CARIB SPORTS or BET JAMAICA." (or whatever other betting venues you like).

Unfortunately, too many bettors are milquetoasts, apathetic, or defeatists with an array of excuses why it won't do any good to send an email of protest to these #%@!& outfits named above. If you don't know what 'milquetoast' means, look up the definition at www.dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com/) and embrace an opportunity to increase your vocabulary.


T2W

[trying2win]

Penn National Gaming just like Magna Entertainment, also owns a betting company...i.e. EBETUSA.COM. However, compare the freedom that Penn National lets PTC have for choosing rebates for customers on the racetracks it owns and what Tracknet does. In my opinion, Penn National Gaming has got it right in this area, Tracknet doesn't.

Having said the praise about Penn National Gaming, they are sure not angels when it comes to some of their track takeouts at their own beloved PENN NATIONAL though. They need to lower their outrageous takeouts on the triactors, superfectas, win 3's and win 4's. Compare those takeouts for example with those at KEENELAND. Which of these two tracks would you like to play these kind of gimmicks, even before considering rebates? Here's a track takeout chart:

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=trktkout&header=off


T2W

[Track Collector]

I understand everyone complaining that it's "only" a 2% rebate. But being able to bet legally and get a rebate, while not being a whale, sounds great to me. I'd of course like to have more, but Gulfstream is the track I pour the most money into, so that 2% really adds up.

I've not been in the game for as long as most of you, and I'm not a big better, so maybe my expectations are just too low. I though, am thrilled to be able to get 2% back on Churchill tracks, and this will cause me to move most of my cash from Twinspires and Youbet into PTC.

Charli125,

No need to offer an apology for how much or little you wager. What's right for you is right for you. One point to note here is that being successful at this game is both very challenging and humbling, and the difference between a 2% maximum rebate and something significantly higher is a HUGE factor for those who do this for a living or for significant, alternative income. Even with this rebate advantage a successful handicapper will risk sizable amounts of money over time, and losing streaks involving 10's of thousands of dollars are not uncommon.:(