Charles Town - Gate Vet scratches......

[Maryland Owner]

This is getting ridiculous - it seems that every race at CT is delayed by a vet scratch at the gate. This is happening on every card. Today, I think its 3 of 4 races so far

[Relwob Owner]

This is getting ridiculous - it seems that every race at CT is delayed by a vet scratch at the gate. This is happening on every card. Today, I think its 3 of 4 races so far



Yep-tons of jocks getting off late too....I think there is something brewing with the vet, who I believe is new.....they didnt end til 11:22 last night. Same old nonsense up there!

[cj]

From what I understand, Laurel doesn't even acknowledge CT vet scratches anymore. Horses can race at Lrl without a work after a CT vet scratch.

[JWBurnie]

I agree, there are far too many scratches occuring at the gate. :bang: However,there has been fewer breakdowns over the last few weeks. :ThmbUp:


Anyone watch the 7th today? An2L...the winning horse broke his maiden 2 races back, mc5k (state bred), in his last start, c6n3L(state bred) finished 3rd.
Freaks today in the slop.

[Relwob Owner]

I agree, there are far too many scratches occuring at the gate. :bang: However,there has been fewer breakdowns over the last few weeks. :ThmbUp:


Anyone watch the 7th today? An2L...the winning horse broke his maiden 2 races back, mc5k (state bred), in his last start, c6n3L(state bred) finished 3rd.
Freaks today in the slop.


True about the breakdowns....you just gotta wonder why there are so many recently---I also am curious about the amount of times the jocks have been bailing out of the gate....


That 7th race was very strange....amazing that horse got such a clear lead with these----many contenders ran awful

[Relwob Owner]

I agree, there are far too many scratches occuring at the gate. :bang: However,there has been fewer breakdowns over the last few weeks. :ThmbUp:


Anyone watch the 7th today? An2L...the winning horse broke his maiden 2 races back, mc5k (state bred), in his last start, c6n3L(state bred) finished 3rd.
Freaks today in the slop.


It is amazing up there.....nothing ever surprises me....what else would you expect from a place that lets two trainers have a say in which races are written.....

[jotb]

From what I understand, Laurel doesn't even acknowledge CT vet scratches anymore. Horses can race at Lrl without a work after a CT vet scratch.

I'm not sure where you heard that from CJ. It could be possible. We had one scratched last Sunday. The filly was placed on the vets list. The filly didn't have to work at CT to get off the list but had to work at Bowie. The stewards told me we had to wait 5 day's after the race. Absolutely, nothing wrong with the filly. She didn't have a pimple on her. The 3yo filly was 3rd in her debut in a MSW. We wheeled her back 14 day's later in the same spot and the vet picked her out. He made my rider jog for him 3 times and then asked my rider to gallop. Then he tells my rider you are out. Best part of this is, the trainer is an ex vet. He's an excellent horseman and has been a client of mine for the last 4 years.

This vet has been on a tear of late. The only positive thing, I can say about him is, at least he doesn't make up some story that the jock didn't want to ride the horse. The state vet before him was a woman and she didn't have a good reputation here and was a trainer's nightmare. On many occasions she would say the jock didn't want to ride.

I've lost some good clients because of these vets. They won't ship here anymore and take the chance. Time and money down the drain. I can't blame them. I had one client that shipped up here several year's ago and he ran the horse in a starter. The horse was coming off 4 straight wins. She scratched the horse and he hit the roof. It was not a pleasant scene. This from a man that is a happy go lucky person. A real down to earth human being.

Several year's ago another trainer's horse was scratched by her. The horse was in a maiden 16k.The horse's prior race was in a maiden 10k and just got beat. The horse was 6-5 when she scratched him. The trainer never ran another horse here after that and to boot she tried to blame my rider. You don't ever want another trainer thinking it's the jock fault. If they think for any reason it was the jock you can forget doing business with them again.

Then you have to worry about the trainer spreading rumors on the backside about the jock which some will do. Since many horses are questionable the trainer will reach out and get someone they feel will allow the horse to run. The vets can be a jockey's nightmare as well.

Joe

[jotb]

I agree, there are far too many scratches occuring at the gate. :bang: However,there has been fewer breakdowns over the last few weeks. :ThmbUp:


Anyone watch the 7th today? An2L...the winning horse broke his maiden 2 races back, mc5k (state bred), in his last start, c6n3L(state bred) finished 3rd.
Freaks today in the slop.

Hello JWBurnie:

When this track is off anyone can win. I believe I once spoke about this on the forum. CT can be very difficult to handicap when the track is off. Horses that show in the pp's that they like an off going will sometimes throw a real bad race. On occasion you will find a horse that's never done well on an off track in the past and then jump up and win. If a horse wins on a sloppy track several times you can't automatically assume the horse will do well if the track comes up sloppy. The same can be said for muddy tracks. The horse Watchinmypocket had run once on a muddy track and finished 3rd but that was for a maiden 10k WV Bred. If anyone liked that WV bred yesterday, I would think you could of made a case for Fax Amatic. He won twice in the slop and once in the mud. The race in the mud was for an ALWNW3L for state breds. He wired the field that day. Yesterday, he didn't beat a horse. The winner went 45.85 and finished in 52.39. The best time he ever put up was in that MDN5K for state breds 46.77 and finished in 53.51.

Joe

[Relwob Owner]

Hello JWBurnie:

When this track is off anyone can win. I believe I once spoke about this on the forum. CT can be very difficult to handicap when the track is off. Horses that show in the pp's that they like an off going will sometimes throw a real bad race. On occasion you will find a horse that's never done well on an off track in the past and then jump up and win. If a horse wins on a sloppy track several times you can't automatically assume the horse will do well if the track comes up sloppy. The same can be said for muddy tracks. The horse Watchinmypocket had run once on a muddy track and finished 3rd but that was for a maiden 10k WV Bred. If anyone liked that WV bred yesterday, I would think you could of made a case for Fax Amatic. He won twice in the slop and once in the mud. The race in the mud was for an ALWNW3L for state breds. He wired the field that day. Yesterday, he didn't beat a horse. The winner went 45.85 and finished in 52.39. The best time he ever put up was in that MDN5K for state breds 46.77 and finished in 53.51.

Joe





Funny you pointed out Fax Amatic....I loved that horse and figured at 3 to 1 or better, he was a great bet, as he looked like he could get the lead or just sit right off of it---sure enough, the 7 gets a clear leads and wires them-great point about the off track up there and unpredictable it is....

[cj's dad]

This is getting ridiculous - it seems that every race at CT is delayed by a vet scratch at the gate. This is happening on every card. Today, I think its 3 of 4 races so far

I attended the races @ CT on March 7th (Sat.) and again on March 18th (Wed.)
and in 19 combined races there were at least 8 gate scratches, two loose horses on the track and numerous other delays. Last post on both days ran approx 30 minutes or more behind schedule. Complete minor league operation.
I won't even bring up the tellers!

[Relwob Owner]

I attended the races @ CT on March 7th (Sat.) and again on March 18th (Wed.)
and in 19 combined races there were at least 8 gate scratches, two loose horses on the track and numerous other delays. Last post on both days ran approx 30 minutes or more behind schedule. Complete minor league operation.
I won't even bring up the tellers!


It is amazing up there....I could bring up specifics but dont want to get in trouble with PA:)

One of the basic problems is that there is just no incentive to change....the company that owns the track could not care less about what goes on there becaiuse they just dont care about the Horse Racing.....it is only there because it has to be for the slots....the people running the races dont care about tightening anything up because that would mean they would have to work and step on the toes of those who have been in charge forever.

It is a shame, really because if they ever put some decent money and effort into the track, it could really be a cool place......what is sad is that the good ole boys up there would only change if the place shut down and they would have to realize what they lost....oh wait, that already happened in the mid nineties and nothing changed....

[Saratoga_Mike]

I love racing at CT. Relative to the level of competition, the money's great and 60% to 70% of the horses in each race don't belong (they're in over their heads). As for the new state vet, he sounds somewhat overzealous. But he's there to protect the horses, not worry about offending a trainer (my trainer would be offended, too!), owner, or jockey's agent. Maybe they should go back to pre-race inspections used last year at one point, where you jog your horse on the blacktop prior to the race. If you have a sound horse, you shouldn't object to that. There are times where jocks refuse to ride (think about a certain top five rider) because a horse doesn't feel right. Anyway, you all raised many interesting points, just saying overall I think CT's a great place to win races and actually make money with cheaper claiming horses.

[Relwob Owner]

I love racing at CT. Relative to the level of competition, the money's great and 60% to 70% of the horses in each race don't belong (they're in over their heads). As for the new state vet, he sounds somewhat overzealous. But he's there to protect the horses, not worry about offending a trainer (my trainer would be offended, too!), owner, or jockey's agent. Maybe they should go back to pre-race inspections used last year at one point, where you jog your horse on the blacktop prior to the race. If you have a sound horse, you shouldn't object to that. There are times where jocks refuse to ride (think about a certain top five rider) because a horse doesn't feel right. Anyway, you all raised many interesting points, just saying overall I think CT's a great place to win races and actually make money with cheaper claiming horses.


I own some claimers there and I agree that it is a great place to own horses based on the purses from the slots and that claiming wise, the purses are awesome....however, you do have to put up with a lot of nonsense from the people running the place and some policies that are extremely questionable(like trainers being on the committe that writes the races and writing races that fit their horses....). The overall management is questionable and makes very strange decisions(they built an outdoor paddock that goes downhill and around a bend as you walk down into it...fun on sloppy nights). In addition, the track can be very dangerous at times and short sighted horsemen never agreed to make the track bigger, which would have been a great move-now they cant because of the parking lot they built.


Betting wise, I think it is amazing....the pools are small so you often get great prices because one bettor has made the odds on a horse that doesnt make sense very low.

I have been going there since I was 10 and as a result, overlook many of the flaws because it is like a second home....I would caution any owners thinking of running there to prepare for some stuff that doesnt make sense....

[proximity]

That 7th race was very strange....amazing that horse got such a clear lead with these---

tsn 1/4 mile pace figures (last, med last 3, 2nd best last 4)

red wood devil...........70,70,70
select spr buck..........79,79,80
fax amatic................84,84,83
rocky bearboa..........n/a
salty alex................85
watchnmypckt.......84,87,89***
run jickster run........n/a**
sir pitt...................85,85,85

** horse changing trainers and coming off layoff, but had some good numbers out of town.

***not my selection, but not impossible, especially for early lead

[Relwob Owner]

tsn 1/4 mile pace figures (last, med last 3, 2nd best last 4)

red wood devil...........70,70,70
select spr buck..........79,79,80
fax amatic................84,84,83
rocky bearboa..........n/a
salty alex................85
watchnmypckt.......84,87,89***
run jickster run........n/a**
sir pitt...................85,85,85

** horse changing trainers and coming off layoff, but had some good numbers out of town.

***not my selection, but not impossible, especially for early lead


good info and makes me take second look....I was just amazed at how clear a lead he got considering that the times he had ran previously were against pretty cheap ones-thanks for the info!

[Relwob Owner]

tsn 1/4 mile pace figures (last, med last 3, 2nd best last 4)

red wood devil...........70,70,70
select spr buck..........79,79,80
fax amatic................84,84,83
rocky bearboa..........n/a
salty alex................85
watchnmypckt.......84,87,89***
run jickster run........n/a**
sir pitt...................85,85,85

** horse changing trainers and coming off layoff, but had some good numbers out of town.

***not my selection, but not impossible, especially for early lead


The other thing I missed was that Ramirez was up and he doesnt ride too many ones that dont belong

[proximity]

. Complete minor league operation.


they do have tracy there at the bar. was at ct again last thursday and the girl whipped a jd n coke up on to the bar before i could even open my mouth to order!! :eek: quite impressive!!

[takeout]

** horse changing trainers and coming off layoff, but had some good numbers out of town.
Huh? You must be referring to the 8 instead of the 7.

[proximity]

Huh? You must be referring to the 8 instead of the 7.

correct, the "**" after run jickster run was meant to correspond with the "**" by the above comment.

he had some good 4 1/2 numbers back at delaware although i certainly wouldn't regard them as being anywhere near as reliable as 4 1/2 f numbers from ct.

[proximity]

apologies to maryland owner for changing the subject, but has anyone tried the new hotel yet? the rates seemed reasonable (around $109) and it would be cool to get a room facing the track so you could watch morning workouts. (not that i could get up that early:rolleyes: )

[jotb]

tsn 1/4 mile pace figures (last, med last 3, 2nd best last 4)

red wood devil...........70,70,70
select spr buck..........79,79,80
fax amatic................84,84,83
rocky bearboa..........n/a
salty alex................85
watchnmypckt.......84,87,89***
run jickster run........n/a**
sir pitt...................85,85,85

** horse changing trainers and coming off layoff, but had some good numbers out of town.

***not my selection, but not impossible, especially for early lead

Did you include the race on 1/18/09 when Fax Amatic wired the field where Sir Pitt finished 3rd? Anyway, I agree with you about Tracy. She's always on her toes. Hard working gal.

Joe

[jotb]

I love racing at CT. Relative to the level of competition, the money's great and 60% to 70% of the horses in each race don't belong (they're in over their heads). As for the new state vet, he sounds somewhat overzealous. But he's there to protect the horses, not worry about offending a trainer (my trainer would be offended, too!), owner, or jockey's agent. Maybe they should go back to pre-race inspections used last year at one point, where you jog your horse on the blacktop prior to the race. If you have a sound horse, you shouldn't object to that. There are times where jocks refuse to ride (think about a certain top five rider) because a horse doesn't feel right. Anyway, you all raised many interesting points, just saying overall I think CT's a great place to win races and actually make money with cheaper claiming horses.

It's great to protect the horses but this vet is off the mark many times. The rider that refuses to ride certain horses has made mistakes as well. I've seen him take off on horses that won. I believe if a rider wants to take off a horse then the horse should be scratched. It's not fair for the other horses to wait up to 15 minutes until the other gets a leg up. The gate crew is not any better. Horses should not be standing in the gate for as long as 5 minutes because they can't load some unruly horse. There have been many nights where the gate crew is shorthanded. A 10 horse field with 7 guy's on the gate can't be that good for a few jocks. JMHO.

Joe

[cj's dad]

they do have tracy there at the bar. was at ct again last thursday and the girl whipped a jd n coke up on to the bar before i could even open my mouth to order!! :eek: quite impressive!!

Yes, Traci is a shining light on a rather bleak horizon.

Have you two set a date yet ??:D

BTW-can you see the track from the hotel? It looked doubtful to me.

maybe someone here knows.

Also, the rates at the Hol. Inn Express were very good and the place is immaculate.

[proximity]

. The gate crew is not any better. Horses should not be standing in the gate for as long as 5 minutes because they can't load some unruly horse. There have been many nights where the gate crew is shorthanded. A 10 horse field with 7 guy's on the gate can't be that good for a few jocks. JMHO.
Joe

this is true and there are many anxious moments at this track where after standing perfectly in the gate for several minutes your horse suddenly turns his head just as the last horse or two are being loaded.

fax amatic ran an "89" tsn 1/4 when he beat sir pitt.

[proximity]

Yes, Traci is a shining light on a rather bleak horizon.

Have you two set a date yet ??:D

.

shhh. if my gf reads this i won't be allowed below the mason-dixon line w/out supervision. :D

[dave the horseman]

I've seen horses scratched for no reason at all, I sweat everytime one of my horses are in. As for the jock changes, I dont have a good reason for that.

[Relwob Owner]

I've seen horses scratched for no reason at all, I sweat everytime one of my horses are in. As for the jock changes, I dont have a good reason for that.


Yep-definitely something going on up there.....the jockey thing is even stranger....one good thing about the jock changes is from a betting perspective---if you are betting online with a service that lets you cancel, it has been a huge advantage--I may be mistaken but I cant remember the last time a horse won after a jock has bailed