Pletcher is a baby

[Zenyatta To Crush]

You cryin boy!!?? You cryin?? How bout I get you a Waaaamburger...or some French Cries. Or maybe a Weineken.

I hate how Todd Pletcher makes all these excuses about how the track was too fast and that he would've gone to the Wood and then right after says, "I'm not trying to make any excuses." Thats not something you say right after the race is done, and on national tv. I have never liked Pletcher and wish he'd keep his mouth shut sometimes.

[onefast99]

This is the first time he complained about the track surface. he isnt the only one all of a sudden GP decides to change the surface as of last Wednesday, that is the reason he is bitching and rightfully so.

[supercap]

You cryin boy!!?? You cryin?? How bout I get you a Waaaamburger...or some French Cries. Or maybe a Weineken.

I hate how Todd Pletcher makes all these excuses about how the track was too fast and that he would've gone to the Wood and then right after says, "I'm not trying to make any excuses." Thats not something you say right after the race is done, and on national tv. I have never liked Pletcher and wish he'd keep his mouth shut sometimes.

I am no fan of Pletcher as you can reasd in my posts but, I have to agree with him on this front. 3 track records , Pletcher has always been stand up about racing winning or losing. This is the first time I can remember him being this mad. Always calm and cool , Dunkirk may not get in the Derby because some hairbrains who decided to make gp lighting fast. GPark needs to get a track super who can do more then scrape a track until it is like pavement!!!

[LutherCalvin]

Sometimes the Racing Gods aren't fair. I, too, think Pletcher has a legit complaint. The track was biased toward speed. Hopefully, Dunkirk can get a grudge match in Louisville. Would be good for the racing game.

[joanied]

But he's known for several days the way the track has been playing...he could have scratched and waited for the Wood.
But, I will agree...why did they mess with the track in the first place:bang:

[supercap]

But he's known for several days the way the track has been playing...he could have scratched and waited for the Wood.
But, I will agree...why did they mess with the track in the first place:bang:
His quote was "they told him the track wasnt going to be like this"he can only go by what he sees and they tell him, they were not setting track records for several days!!! Actually glad he blasted gp, maybe a high profile trainer complaining will stop this crap next time.

[onefast99]

His quote was "they told him the track wasnt going to be like this"he can only go by what he sees and they tell him, they were not setting track records for several days!!! Actually glad he blasted gp, maybe a high profile trainer complaining will stop this crap next time.
It started Wednesday with the 4th race American revolution took 2/5ths off the track record. The track was kept fast all the way until the last race today, I am sure tomorrow will be a different story.

[slewis]

I dont know why tracks do this crap (scraping) on big days.


Look at the charts and every horse with the exception of the 7F race went virtually wire to wire, not to mention the times.

Not only is it unfair, but it's downright dangerous. Scrape the track, you have less cushion, the horses run a greater risk of injury.

The pounding down of the racetrack in last years Kentucky Derby to squeeze the water out made it so hard, I guarantee that was the most contributing factor to Eight Belles breaking down. I walked the track, I couldn't BELIEVE how hard it was.

If you want to have faster times, secretly move the 1st trigger up 20 feet.
The public will be duped, but the horses will be safe.

I cant blame Pletcher for being pissed, Id be too.

[Robert Fischer]

they were probably just as fast yesterday , just without the saturday horses..

Dr. Pleasure went in 1:35 flat , bonnie miss went real fast, and two runners in the 6.5furlong 18k claimer race went really fast under 1:16...

Hard to complain after the fact. I don't believe that he didn't understand that the track was blazing. And if he didn't, he should have.

However it was a blazing fast track today.
It must have been discouraging , his horse ran a huge race and was still beaten.

[supercap]

I dont know why tracks do this crap (scraping) on big days.


Look at the charts and every horse with the exception of the 7F race went virtually wire to wire, not to mention the times.

Not only is it unfair, but it's downright dangerous. Scrape the track, you have less cushion, the horses run a greater risk of injury.

The pounding down of the racetrack in last years Kentucky Derby to squeeze the water out made it so hard, I guarantee that was the most contributing factor to Eight Belles breaking down. I walked the track, I couldn't BELIEVE how hard it was.

If you want to have faster times, secretly move the 1st trigger up 20 feet.
The public will be duped, but the horses will be safe.

I cant blame Pletcher for being pissed, Id be too.

Totally agree, hate to say the phrase speed kills!

[Relwob Owner]

You cryin boy!!?? You cryin?? How bout I get you a Waaaamburger...or some French Cries. Or maybe a Weineken.

I hate how Todd Pletcher makes all these excuses about how the track was too fast and that he would've gone to the Wood and then right after says, "I'm not trying to make any excuses." Thats not something you say right after the race is done, and on national tv. I have never liked Pletcher and wish he'd keep his mouth shut sometimes.


Funny how Dutrow pops off last year several times and many people dont care, saying "Oh, thats just Dutrow being Dutrow" and viewing it as refreshing candor....Pletcher does it and gets heat...

I like the fact that he said something----I think that in generall, it is good for race track management to get taken to task as much as possible when they mess up, which is quite frequent...

[CincyHorseplayer]

Pletcher has a right to be pis$ed.

At the guy in the mirror.He knew how the track was playing 2 days ago.If he didn't he shouldn't be a trainer.

As Joanie said,if he felt the surface compromised his horse he could have scratched.

[Relwob Owner]

Pletcher has a right to be pis$ed.

At the guy in the mirror.He knew how the track was playing 2 days ago.If he didn't he shouldn't be a trainer.

As Joanie said,if he felt the surface compromised his horse he could have scratched.


I gotta disagree with you guys there....even if he did think that 2 days ago, which he probably did because tracks seem to always do it, a case can pretty easily be made that this race had a better shot at a win than the Wood will.....this one had QR, who going in had distance concerns and TGJJ who probably wasnt a concern fro his view.....I think that the Wood with IWR, IC and POTN if he goes East, plus others, may have looked tougher two days ago.....

[supercap]

I gotta disagree with you guys there....even if he did think that 2 days ago, which he probably did because tracks seem to always do it, a case can pretty easily be made that this race had a better shot at a win than the Wood will.....this one had QR, who going in had distance concerns and TGJJ who probably wasnt a concern fro his view.....I think that the Wood with IWR, IC and POTN if he goes East, plus others, may have looked tougher two days ago.....

Good point Relwob, this was amuch softer spot , regardless of how the track played 2 days ago they could have slowed it down. Pletchwer was going off what the gp people were telling him.

[NJ Stinks]

I am no fan of Pletcher as you can reasd in my posts but, I have to agree with him on this front. 3 track records , Pletcher has always been stand up about racing winning or losing. This is the first time I can remember him being this mad. Always calm and cool , Dunkirk may not get in the Derby because some hairbrains who decided to make gp lighting fast. GPark needs to get a track super who can do more then scrape a track until it is like pavement!!!

I agree completely. Anybody else ever remember Pletcher complaining after a loss?

[Relwob Owner]

I agree completely. Anybody else ever remember Pletcher complaining after a loss?



Nope, I dont.....question-does anyone believe that they would "stick with the plan" and noy try to get earnings? I guess how he looked right after the race might make it moot but I would be really surprised if they didnt roll the dice for some extra dough and get into the Derby...although maybe he is lightly raced for a reason?

[the little guy]

In my experience, Todd has always been a gracious winner and loser, and he had a right to be frustrated today. Maybe if he had it to do over again, he wouldn't have complained right after the race, but he wasn't wrong and frankly, given how often people have criticized him for often being overly stoic, I think it's refreshing to hear him speak his mind. Make no mistake, he's an extremely bright person, and understands racing extemely well.

[supercap]

In my experience, Todd has always been a gracious winner and loser, and he had a right to be frustrated today. Maybe if he had it to do over again, he wouldn't have complained right after the race, but he wasn't wrong and frankly, given how often people have criticized him for often being overly stoic, I think it's refreshing to hear him speak his mind. Make no mistake, he's an extremely bright person, and understands racing extemely well.

I think him doing it right after the race made his argument that much more powerful. When a guy like him speaks his mind on national tv right after a race people take notice. 2 days later IMO would seem more like sour grapes.

[DanG]

In my experience, Todd has always been a gracious winner and loser, and he had a right to be frustrated today. Maybe if he had it to do over again, he wouldn't have complained right after the race, but he wasn't wrong and frankly, given how often people have criticized him for often being overly stoic, I think it's refreshing to hear him speak his mind. Make no mistake, he's an extremely bright person, and understands racing extemely well.

Well said.

[Tom]

It is a shame they only scraped the track under his horse.

[cj]

I am no fan of Pletcher as you can reasd in my posts but, I have to agree with him on this front. 3 track records , Pletcher has always been stand up about racing winning or losing. This is the first time I can remember him being this mad. Always calm and cool , Dunkirk may not get in the Derby because some hairbrains who decided to make gp lighting fast. GPark needs to get a track super who can do more then scrape a track until it is like pavement!!!

Dunkirk won't get in the Derby because he didn't race enough to make enough money to get in. I don't really think the track beat him, a better horse did. So, he'd still need more earnings to make the race.

[supercap]

It is a shame they only scraped the track under his horse.
Please explain, which horse?

[Tom]

Pletcher's horse.

[cj]

I looked at the splits and watched the race. Watching the rider of Quality Road entering the stretch, there was no question he still had a ton of horse left and little worry about winning. The pace was pedestrian.

I have yet to make final figures, but the raw figures using the Beyer scale were 94 pace, 118 speed. Dunkirk ran a huge race, but I don't think a slower track gets him to the winner's circle. A more demanding pace certainly would have. I thought there was supposed to be a rabbit in the race, but it was more like a bunch of tortoises.

[supercap]

Pletcher's horse.
Not sure but I dont think a speed trak favors a horse like Dunkirk, so your argument is perplexing. What would him having the track scraped only under him do?

[Relwob Owner]

Not sure but I dont think a speed trak favors a horse like Dunkirk, so your argument is perplexing. What would him having the track scraped only under him do?



I could be wrong here but I think Tom was being sarcastic and saying that the track was the same for all the horses, not just Pletcher's?

[supercap]

I could be wrong here but I think Tom was being sarcastic and saying that the track was the same for all the horses, not just Pletcher's?
I agree he was being sarcastic , as was I. The scraped track benefitted some not all , was the point I was trying to make.

[cj]

Not sure but I dont think a speed trak favors a horse like Dunkirk, so your argument is perplexing. What would him having the track scraped only under him do?

The speed of the track has little bearing on what running style is advantaged. That is a common misconception. Sure, sometimes a blazing fast track is a speed biased track, but not always.

Check out Monarchos winning the Derby, the second fastest in history if I remember right in under 2 minutes. He wasn't a speed horse by any stretch, but he was able to win. The winners of the Swale and Fla Derby both had big tactical advantages the way the races were run.

[Relwob Owner]

I agree he was being sarcastic , as was I. The scraped track benefitted some not all , was the point I was trying to make.


Gotcha:)

[CincyHorseplayer]

I looked at the splits and watched the race. Watching the rider of Quality Road entering the stretch, there was no question he still had a ton of horse left and little worry about winning. The pace was pedestrian.

I have yet to make final figures, but the raw figures using the Beyer scale were 94 pace, 118 speed. Dunkirk ran a huge race, but I don't think a slower track gets him to the winner's circle. A more demanding pace certainly would have. I thought there was supposed to be a rabbit in the race, but it was more like a bunch of tortoises.

I think it was pretty easy to envision this kind of scenario.With the pacesetter no real competitive threat QR and his rider just sat there biding time.I think a faster pace arguably would've stranded Dunkirk because he would have been that much further behind.His running style was his greatest handicap.That and lack of experience IMO.

[DrugS]

Dunkirk has run over a tiring GP track before - that was when he debuted at 7fs and won in 1:25 and change.

Going in - he would have been the one horse in the race you would expect to benefit from a lightning fast track.

The problem is the todays track favored inside-speed. Something that most often isn't the case on lightning fast tracks.

Path and style biases - of which fewer exist than most people think - are more often the result of funky weather more than anything else.

Inside-speed was outstanding in Dubai today .. and that track was yielding dull final times. It was hardly some souped up highway.

Dubai had some funky weather all week ... and Gulfstream reportedly had extremely windy weather today.

[DrugS]

I have yet to make final figures, but the raw figures using the Beyer scale were 94 pace, 118 speed. Dunkirk ran a huge race, but I don't think a slower track gets him to the winner's circle. A more demanding pace certainly would have.

How can you trust a pace figure on a day when they only ran one two-turn dirt route and the winds were supposedly extreme?

I have the final time figure for the race coming back a 106.

Which means Dunkirk .. who raced 2nd to last early on ... ran a new career top by 5 points.

It also meant Stately Charachter - who raced dead last early on - ran a 6 point new career top in what was his 9th lifetime start.

With the track playing against both Dunkirk and Stately Charchter's running styles .. and the pace so dead against them both ... how likely is it that they both would run clear cut new career tops? Aren't horses supposed to react differently when a combo of important factors like that are so against them?

[cj]

How can you trust a pace figure on a day when they only ran one two-turn dirt route and the winds were supposedly extreme?

I have the final time figure for the race coming back a 106.

Which means Dunkirk .. who raced 2nd to last early on ... ran a new career top by 5 points.

It also meant Stately Charachter - who raced dead last early on - ran a 6 point new career top in what was his 9th lifetime start.

With the track playing against both Dunkirk and Stately Charchter's running styles .. and the pace so dead against them both ... how likely is it that they both would run clear cut new career tops? Aren't horses supposed to react differently when a combo of important factors like that are so against them?

As I said, I haven't made figures yet. However, even with only one route, isn't the pace call usually run the roughly same amount into and against a heavy wind? The sprints will help to see the effect of wind as well. Given the turf races are two turns, those can give a clue to the effect of wind also. I would say you have a lot better chance of getting a pace and speed figure close than you do of a speed figure alone when there is only one race. Most importantly, just watching the race and the jockeys, wasn't it obvious the pace wasn't very taxing at all? QRs jockey was just sitting there waiting for competition, then took off when it came.

I don't agree that SC improved as much as you do. He was beaten over 10 lengths. I suspect the slowish pace probably means the speed figure was lower than you believe. Slow paces tend to bring slower horses closer at the finish, like on turf and synthetics. I'll be happy to check in on Monday when I do my work on the card. I don't like to do it too close to watching the races.

[magwell]

Bottom line here is they could have gone around again and the result would have been the same....... today anyway. Looks like who beats this colt will win the Derby, like i said after the f.o.y. he has the look of a colt that will run all day. Lets hope he stays sound and can show up for the derby, we have a ways to go yet. Its getting good now I hope all the good ones show up this year

[DrugS]

As I said, I haven't made figures yet. However, even with only one route, isn't the pace call usually run the roughly same amount into and against a heavy wind?

No.

The run to the first turn is very short at GP .. they are racing on the home straight for about 10 seconds from the start of where the race is timed to the first turn. I believe the 3/8ths pole is at about the start of the far turn at GP. So you get the entire backstretch run. You also get one turn and not the other for crosswind purposes.

I'm just a little skeptical about saying it was a crawl of a pace when you have a 7 horse field ... and the horses racing first through fifth early on all see there final figure regress significantly ... while the two horses racing back in last and second to last both put up clear cut new tops on final figures.

Even if you assume the track was fair to all styles ... which I don't think it was ... it would still make me skeptical the pace was a crawl.

[slewis]

Bottom line here is they could have gone around again and the result would have been the same....... today anyway. Looks like who beats this colt will win the Derby, like i said after the f.o.y. he has the look of a colt that will run all day. Lets hope he stays sound and can show up for the derby, we have a ways to go yet. Its getting good now I hope all the good ones show up this year


Your bottom line statement is questionable.... I think Dunkirk ran the better race with the track playing like it did.

[slewis]

As I said, I haven't made figures yet. However, even with only one route, isn't the pace call usually run the roughly same amount into and against a heavy wind? The sprints will help to see the effect of wind as well. Given the turf races are two turns, those can give a clue to the effect of wind also. I would say you have a lot better chance of getting a pace and speed figure close than you do of a speed figure alone when there is only one race. Most importantly, just watching the race and the jockeys, wasn't it obvious the pace wasn't very taxing at all? QRs jockey was just sitting there waiting for competition, then took off when it came.

I don't agree that SC improved as much as you do. He was beaten over 10 lengths. I suspect the slowish pace probably means the speed figure was lower than you believe. Slow paces tend to bring slower horses closer at the finish, like on turf and synthetics. I'll be happy to check in on Monday when I do my work on the card. I don't like to do it too close to watching the races.

I've talked to NYRA stakes coordinator Andrew Byrnes about writing AT LEAST 1 other race at the distance on these big days. ALL RACING SECRETARY"S should get a clue... If race fans are confident in a figure, which is mostly crafted as a result of the time of race, another race comparison makes for more accurate figures hence more fan interest.
Again, the racing industry ALWAYS seems to drop the ball.

[DrugS]

It pains me to say it but Slewis is right.

[Mineshaft]

It is a shame they only scraped the track under his horse.





Classic...

[Mineshaft]

Todd is pissed hes still on the fence about getting into the Derby. If he would of won you wouldnt hear squat about the track being fast. Not one fawkin word. He has a horse who is bred out the azzzzzzz and waits till January to start him. He knows hes behind the 8 ball with the horse to make some graded money. Either start the horse early to get some graded earnings or shut the hell up.

[slewis]

Todd is pissed hes still on the fence about getting into the Derby. If he would of won you wouldnt hear squat about the track being fast. Not one fawkin word. He has a horse who is bred out the azzzzzzz and waits till January to start him. He knows hes behind the 8 ball with the horse to make some graded money. Either start the horse early to get some graded earnings or shut the hell up.


How can you make a statement like this?

Do you know what was behind this horse not starting earlier?

I've mentioned on numerous occasion on this forum, that the perceptions of the game from a gambler/fan prospective can quite often be very different then the realities of it from a horsemans/owner view.
I've had several horses who SHOULD NOT (and did NOT) race until they were 3 yrs old and matured.

[Relwob Owner]

How can you make a statement like this?

Do you know what was behind this horse not starting earlier?

I've mentioned on numerous occasion on this forum, that the perceptions of the game from a gambler/fan prospective can quite often be very different then the realities of it from a horsemans/owner view.
I've had several horses who SHOULD NOT (and did NOT) race until they were 3 yrs old and matured.



Gotta agree with you here.....it is not as if Pletcher dropped the ball here and had poor strategy- whether you are a gambler or owner or whatever, it should be easy to see that there was a reason for the horse's light schedule...whether or not you like Pletcher, you should give him enough credit to know what he is doing in terms of when to race the horse.....as far as his "whining" goes, I commend him for saying what he thinks----he says it and it is whining, Durtow drops bombs and people call it "refreshing candor"....not really fair

[cj]

No.

The run to the first turn is very short at GP .. they are racing on the home straight for about 10 seconds from the start of where the race is timed to the first turn. I believe the 3/8ths pole is at about the start of the far turn at GP. So you get the entire backstretch run. You also get one turn and not the other for crosswind purposes.

I'm just a little skeptical about saying it was a crawl of a pace when you have a 7 horse field ... and the horses racing first through fifth early on all see there final figure regress significantly ... while the two horses racing back in last and second to last both put up clear cut new tops on final figures.

Even if you assume the track was fair to all styles ... which I don't think it was ... it would still make me skeptical the pace was a crawl.

The horses on the pace, except for the winner, stink. I agree the pace wasn't as dramatically slow as the fractions would indicate at first glance, but I am 100% positive that the pace figure will be slower than the speed figure. Adjusting for wind isn't as hard as you make it out be if you know what part of the track all the different distances are run on, turf and dirt.

The real question for me will be when the pace is fast, as it usually is in the Derby, will Quality Road be able to run his same race from several lengths off the pace?

[cj]

I've talked to NYRA stakes coordinator Andrew Byrnes about writing AT LEAST 1 other race at the distance on these big days. ALL RACING SECRETARY"S should get a clue... If race fans are confident in a figure, which is mostly crafted as a result of the time of race, another race comparison makes for more accurate figures hence more fan interest.
Again, the racing industry ALWAYS seems to drop the ball.

I've been saying that for years. Sometimes NYRA does it, but there are still times they do not.

[DrugS]

Imagine a scenario if Pletcher ran the rabbit in the race ... and it pestered Quality Road and took him apart ... and Jimmy Jerkens was interviewed by ESPN just after the race whining about how he should have gone to the Wood.

I know, it probably wouldn't happen.

I have no problem with what Pletcher said though. I believe Dunkirk was the most expensive yearling at public auction last year ... and a trainer of such a horse should go to great lengths to be almost an outright PR guy for the horse. Think I wouldn't have done the same if I was in Pletcher's situation?

Never mind that when GP has been yielding exceptionally fast times over the last few years - there have been more outside/stalker to mid-pack friendly tracks than inside/speed friendly such tracks.

Nevermind that Dunkirk struggled with a tiring GP track in his 1:25 and change debut over a dull track where This One's For Phil ran 50 points faster two races later.

[DrugS]

The horses on the pace, except for the winner, stink.

They may all stink ... but all 5 of them - including the winner who went backwards 10 Beyer points -regressed markedly.

[cj]

They may all stink ... but all 5 of them - including the winner who went backwards 10 Beyer points -regressed markedly.

You are forgetting one thing. Just because I say the pace was slow in relation to final time does not mean the pace was slow for each individual horse. Horses that run 85 Beyers faced with a 95 pace (slow for yesterday) are going to regress most times.

[garyscpa]

Todd is pissed hes still on the fence about getting into the Derby. If he would of won you wouldnt hear squat about the track being fast. Not one fawkin word. He has a horse who is bred out the azzzzzzz and waits till January to start him. He knows hes behind the 8 ball with the horse to make some graded money. Either start the horse early to get some graded earnings or shut the hell up.

Maybe Pletcher forgot he had Dunkirk until January. :D

[Bobzilla]

I had a disagreement wilth my brother last night over what the biggest factor was contributing to Dunkirk's 2nd place finish. He felt it was primarily the track and I took the position that the track might not have helped Dunkirk's chances but ultimately it was the race dynamics that did him in.

It's only been over the last ten years that I've divorced myself from the notion that low variant fast tracks always create a speed bias and vice versa. Though it's possible for a speed bias to occur on a day when the track is yielding uniform fast final times, I've arrived at the position that track speed and bias are, for the most part, unrelated as I've seen much evidence to the contrary. I've also distanced myself from the universally accepted axiom of closers must having sufficient early pace to give them a chance. Don't get me wrong, I believe in most races where a closer won it was probably this dynamic that contributed to his victory, but I've witnessed other dynamics at play which have contributed to many victories by deep closers. In fact I think some horses who win from off the pace prefer to accelerate off moderate to slow fractions and they won't bite if there is quick early pace. The latter might be more of a grass/AWS dynamic but I've observed it many times on conventional dirt as well.

Pletcher could have let the rabbit Europe run yesterday and he, probably on his own, could have run a 1:09: 4/5 third quarter but it's doubtful that would have had any real effect on Quality Road who probably would have run his own race and dispatched of the rabbit at his convenience, much as he did with Casey's On Call. The bottom line is that without a comparable class and pace presence in the front along with QR then Dunkirk was probably going to be running for second, regardless of how kamikazee-like the rabbit was sent. The Europe's of the world simply don't have the same effect on the QRs of the road as Siphon had on Cigar or Coronados Quest had on Will's Way.... never did understand that last one, I remember thinking McGaughey must have had it out for the trainer. I believe it was Pancho Martin.

Both Quality Road and Dunkirk showed me a lot yesterday. A numer of this year's three year olds have. I was way off with Quality Road as I had decidedly taken a position against him yesterday on the belief he was vulnerable to a developmental regression and might lack the accelleration needed to stave off Dunkirk when the latter came running because of the anticipated regression. I also was ignorant of Danger to Society being a probable scratch until later in the day and had based some of my early thoughts on the race with a possible forward presence by him in mind. That said, I don't believe it would have mattered. What would have been interesting would be if QR and I Want Revenge were to meet in a race where Dunkirk was lurking behind and what results a field of this kind of composition might yield.

[cj]

They may all stink ... but all 5 of them - including the winner who went backwards 10 Beyer points -regressed markedly.

Well, I guess I was using the wrong times, or they were posted wrong at race replays, or something. The actual raw numbers I get were 120 pace, 124 speed. The other races don't really show any evidence there was a lot of wind. Where did you hear that?

I haven't tried to come up with a speed number yet. If I accept your 106, the pace will be about 102. So, no, the pace wasn't a crawl, but it was also not very conducive to horses coming from the back of the pack. Throw in that Dunkirk ran wide while running his best and that the track may have been biased and you have a very good performance.

Can Quality Road race farther back in the pack and be just as effective? Though it is possible, it is also a low percentage play. Most horses are just not that versatile.

[Mineshaft]

How can you make a statement like this?

Do you know what was behind this horse not starting earlier?

I've mentioned on numerous occasion on this forum, that the perceptions of the game from a gambler/fan prospective can quite often be very different then the realities of it from a horsemans/owner view.
I've had several horses who SHOULD NOT (and did NOT) race until they were 3 yrs old and matured.





Im sure the horse had some problems that prevented from starting earlier. But Pletcher cant expect to start the horse that late and have enough graded earnings to reach the Derby. Hes biatching about the earnings not the track. You can slice and dice it all you want hes mad he didnt get the win to get in the Derby.


And you can bet your last dollar he will run this horse one more time to try and get get into the Derby.

[cj]

And you can bet your last dollar he will run this horse one more time to try and get get into the Derby.

The Derby Trial is listed as a G3 again. If that is correct, it could be a paid workout if he needs the earnings.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Quality Road was assigned a 103 Beyer. That's the official number.

[DrugS]

The other races don't really show any evidence there was a lot of wind. Where did you hear that

ESPN said 25 MPH winds and the flags were blowing hard.

Never said which direction it was blowing. I doubt it was a straight on head-wind or tail-wind.

[onefast99]

The speed of the track has little bearing on what running style is advantaged. That is a common misconception. Sure, sometimes a blazing fast track is a speed biased track, but not always.

Check out Monarchos winning the Derby, the second fastest in history if I remember right in under 2 minutes. He wasn't a speed horse by any stretch, but he was able to win. The winners of the Swale and Fla Derby both had big tactical advantages the way the races were run.
Tell that to the guys that run at Monmouth park, one day they are firing a 108:3 for Jbreds and the next day its a 112:1

[DrugS]

The actual raw numbers I get were 120 pace, 124 speed.

Makes a lot more sense.

I almost fell over when I saw you had the pace 24 points slower than the final. Especially since I only had an 11 point difference and I know pace figs on your scale tend to be about 6-to-9 points faster than mine.

[cj]

Makes a lot more sense.

I almost fell over when I saw you had the pace 24 points slower than the final. Especially since I only had an 11 point difference and I know pace figs on your scale tend to be about 6-to-9 points faster than mine.

That is why I use a computer when I actually do the work!

[Bobzilla]

If the numbers I just saw on the weather channel website mean anything the winds were out of the SSE at around 16 mph. Personally I don't care about winds until they get over 20 mph and have associated gusts. Anyway, if I remember correctly GP has a North - South geographical orientation. If that's correct, and again I'm not sure, then the field would have had a right rear quartering tailwind on the backstretch.

[cj]

Tell that to the guys that run at Monmouth park, one day they are firing a 108:3 for Jbreds and the next day its a 112:1

Are you saying on blazing fast days only speed wins, and on slow days closers win?

[onefast99]

Are you saying on blazing fast days only speed wins, and on slow days closers win?
It matters if the tide is in or out on the closers. Its been that way since they re-did the track surface.

[BIG49010]

The wind was at least 30 from the southwest if that helps

[CincyHorseplayer]

Quality Road was assigned a 103 Beyer. That's the official number.

Well this casts things in a little different light.Quality Road did regress off that big effort,big number off a layoff.Some others thought that he looked like he had a ton of horse left turning for home,I really didn't think he was moving all that well til he dug in around the 16th pole.

Dunkirk ran a big race,but what does that say about Quality Road,that he beat him on an off day??

[Robert Fischer]

The horse ran the best race of his life, and the best dirt derby prep of the year, and everyone is talking bounce or regression...

[cj]

The horse ran the best race of his life, and the best dirt derby prep of the year, and everyone is talking bounce or regression...

I don't think he regressed either. Sometimes people forget horses are raced to win, not to run as fast as possible.

[thespaah]

I dont know why tracks do this crap (scraping) on big days.


Look at the charts and every horse with the exception of the 7F race went virtually wire to wire, not to mention the times.

Not only is it unfair, but it's downright dangerous. Scrape the track, you have less cushion, the horses run a greater risk of injury.

The pounding down of the racetrack in last years Kentucky Derby to squeeze the water out made it so hard, I guarantee that was the most contributing factor to Eight Belles breaking down. I walked the track, I couldn't BELIEVE how hard it was.

If you want to have faster times, secretly move the 1st trigger up 20 feet.
The public will be duped, but the horses will be safe.

I cant blame Pletcher for being pissed, Id be too.Sometimes I wish they's just stop timing races. I know that's silly.
But look, if it's time for some track records to fall, the mgment can tell the super to go ahead and prep the track for just that.
It's stupid.
NYRA is the only assn where the track depths are posted for public consumption. At least as far as I have seen. They also give comparisons from previous days.
BTW please permit my ingnorance. What's "the first trigger"?

[thespaah]

I gotta disagree with you guys there....even if he did think that 2 days ago, which he probably did because tracks seem to always do it, a case can pretty easily be made that this race had a better shot at a win than the Wood will.....this one had QR, who going in had distance concerns and TGJJ who probably wasnt a concern fro his view.....I think that the Wood with IWR, IC and POTN if he goes East, plus others, may have looked tougher two days ago.....what the heck are those cap letters?

[Relwob Owner]

what the heck are those cap letters?

Quality Road
ThereGoesJoJo
I Want Revenge
Imperial Council
Pioneer of the Nile


Trying to stay efficient:)

[slewis]

Sometimes I wish they's just stop timing races. I know that's silly.
But look, if it's time for some track records to fall, the mgment can tell the super to go ahead and prep the track for just that.
It's stupid.
NYRA is the only assn where the track depths are posted for public consumption. At least as far as I have seen. They also give comparisons from previous days.
BTW please permit my ingnorance. What's "the first trigger"?

Just so you know... I recorded track depths every day for over a year and couldn't use the data in any adventageous fashion. It was a big waste of time.

The "TRIGGER" is the timing electronic eye that starts the race tele-timer when the first horse passes it. The race time is not started when the gate opens, but when this trigger is passed.
There is a "run-up" distance from the gate to where that trigger is located.
If they want faster track times.. move the trigger up 20-30 feet.
Public will never know.

[cj]

Just so you know... I recorded track depths every day for over a year and couldn't use the data in any adventageous fashion. It was a big waste of time.

The "TRIGGER" is the timing electronic eye that starts the race tele-timer when the first horse passes it. The race time is not started when the gate opens, but when this trigger is passed.
There is a "run-up" distance from the gate to where that trigger is located.
If they want faster track times.. move the trigger up 20-30 feet.
Public will never know.

Whenever times come up funny, the first thing I do is check for different run ups. It is pretty obvious watching a replay if something was fishy with the run up and / or the timing.

I would think moisture has a lot more to do with times than track depth.

[garyscpa]

Whenever times come up funny, the first thing I do is check for different run ups. It is pretty obvious watching a replay if something was fishy with the run up and / or the timing.

So we are trusting the GP timers for this race?

[foregoforever]

BTW please permit my ingnorance. What's "the first trigger"?

It's the sensor that starts the timer for the race, which is located at some distance (the "run-up") from the gate. I forget the distance, which varies from track to track.

I also get fed up with these souped-up tracks. It annoys me that there's never any followup on it. If track mgt is actually ordering the track to be quickened on big days, it should be investigated. Not only is it potentially dangerous to the horses, but it's unfair to wagerers and horsemen, and opens the door to all sorts of shenanigans.

[cj]

So we are trusting the GP timers for this race?

I'll see tomorrow. It is tough to say if a time is funny when there was only one route run all day. The raw pace/speed combo seem to be reasonable, which can also be a tip off to funny business.

[thespaah]

If the numbers I just saw on the weather channel website mean anything the winds were out of the SSE at around 16 mph. Personally I don't care about winds until they get over 20 mph and have associated gusts. Anyway, if I remember correctly GP has a North - South geographical orientation. If that's correct, and again I'm not sure, then the field would have had a right rear quartering tailwind on the backstretch.weather observations are usually taken once per hour and at airports. The local observations for Hallandale are from Fort Lauderdale Int'l. here are the 3/28 observations
Highest wind gust 29 mph
Highest wind speed( one minute wind) 24 mph
Avg wind speed 14 mph.
All were from the southwest.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I don't think he regressed either. Sometimes people forget horses are raced to win, not to run as fast as possible.

I say that based on my visual impressions of Quality Road and my not very high opinion of Dunkirk coming in.Til the 16th pole I thought QR looked a little deadpan.I think he's the better horse by far and this wasn't the best he's got to offer.Dunkirk was overblown to begin with and QR beat him without his best effort IMO.I just hope that big effort isn't compromised by an extra 8th of a mile.

[Bobzilla]

weather observations are usually taken once per hour and at airports. The local observations for Hallandale are from Fort Lauderdale Int'l. here are the 3/28 observations
Highest wind gust 29 mph
Highest wind speed( one minute wind) 24 mph
Avg wind speed 14 mph.
All were from the southwest.


Thanks for the information. I was wondering if the readings were from Ft. Lauderdale Intl. which isn't necessarily across the street as JFK is to Aqueduct, in fact it's quite a ways away. I believe GP is closer to the ocean so the winds could actually be a bit different between the two locations, particularly in the late afternoon. I haven't been to GP since the BC 1999 but if memory serves me correctly the geographical orientation of the oval is North - South.

[Relwob Owner]

Thanks for the information. I was wondering if the readings were from Ft. Lauderdale Intl. which isn't necessarily across the street as JFK is to Aqueduct, in fact it's quite a ways away. I believe GP is closer to the ocean so the winds could actually be a bit different between the two locations, particularly in the late afternoon. I haven't been to GP since the BC 1999 but if memory serves me correctly the geographical orientation of the oval is North - South.


Back to Pletcher for a sec.....I do wonder what the plan was for Dunkirk and the Derby-he was obviously late to develop but they did seem to be pointing for the Triple Crown----that being said and earnings being an issue, I dont question the Fla Derby over the Wood but I do wonder why they didnt go for the much easier spot at Sunland or the Illnois Derby---maybe the prestige factor? just curious....

[BIG49010]

I say that based on my visual impressions of Quality Road and my not very high opinion of Dunkirk coming in.Til the 16th pole I thought QR looked a little deadpan.I think he's the better horse by far and this wasn't the best he's got to offer.Dunkirk was overblown to begin with and QR beat him without his best effort IMO.I just hope that big effort isn't compromised by an extra 8th of a mile.


Your post is exactly what I told other players who asked my opinion on the race.

QR if he stands the training of Jerkens, has a shot at the derby.

[Bobzilla]

Back to Pletcher for a sec.....I do wonder what the plan was for Dunkirk and the Derby-he was obviously late to develop but they did seem to be pointing for the Triple Crown----that being said and earnings being an issue, I dont question the Fla Derby over the Wood but I do wonder why they didnt go for the much easier spot at Sunland or the Illnois Derby---maybe the prestige factor? just curious....


As far as the Wood is concerned I would guess Pletcher had more respect for IWR than he did for QR. In regard to Illinois and New Mexico I think he simply didn't feel he would have to participate in those races to ensure a victory and get the earnings he needed. The fact he scratched the rabbit leads me to believe he was supremely confident in his horse's chances of winning the Florida Derby. I'm guilty of having underestimated QR myself. Only with the benefit of hindsight do I now appreciate the negative impact on Dunkirk's chances that factors like field composition, race dynamics and possibly a glib surface might have played in the outcome, not to mention Quality Road being a pretty talented animal to say the least. In this seven horse field there were two animals with comparable talent, and five that were nowhere near them. Not one of the five minor leaguers were going to have any effect on QR's performance and abilty to come home with energy. That being said it would seem Dunkirk's preferred style of releasing his energy in the later stages gave his only true competitor a head start.

[DanG]

but I do wonder why they didnt go for the much easier spot at Sunland or the Illnois Derby---maybe the prestige factor? just curious....
Sunland Derby is not graded btw.

[slewis]

Before all you monday morning trainers banter about Pletcher's decision to run in the FL derby as opposed to the Wood or elsewhere:


Keep this in mind:

I want revenge is just as dangerous a foe as Quality Road.
(and in my opinion, still is, I actually think he's better.)

Other horses in the Wood may be more dangerous then the FL derby.

(IE Shug's horse)

You miss training when you ship, and the horse was pointed to this race.

You're more likely to get better weather in FL then NY.

If you lose the FL derby but run second, you could run once more to get in the kentucky derby if you had to.
If you race in the Wood, you cant run again prior to the Derby.
(you could but it will compromise your Kent. chances severely)

It's easy to find the open receiver while watching on TV, try hitting him when on the field when the blitz is coming!

[Relwob Owner]

Sunland Derby is not graded btw.


Well, you answered that question for me....thanks!

[Relwob Owner]

Before all you monday morning trainers banter about Pletcher's decision to run in the FL derby as opposed to the Wood or elsewhere:


Keep this in mind:

I want revenge is just as dangerous a foe as Quality Road.
(and in my opinion, still is, I actually think he's better.)

Other horses in the Wood may be more dangerous then the FL derby.

(IE Shug's horse)

You miss training when you ship, and the horse was pointed to this race.

You're more likely to get better weather in FL then NY.

If you lose the FL derby but run second, you could run once more to get in the kentucky derby if you had to.
If you race in the Wood, you cant run again prior to the Derby.
(you could but it will compromise your Kent. chances severely)

It's easy to find the open receiver while watching on TV, try hitting him when on the field when the blitz is coming!



I agree with ya...I defended Pletcher's call earlier in the thread with respect to the Wood....seems like it will come up a lot tougher....the Sunland deal makes sense now because it wasnt graded and good point about the week giving you more breathing room to run again....earlier post makes sense that Pletcher probably had supreme confidence in the horse.

Every year, it does seem that there is more and more talk and potential good reason to take a second look at the qualifications for the Derby and this year, you add to the win and your in thing....lots to discuss...

As far as Monday morning trainers go, if you couldnt question decisions, there would be a lot less in the forum to discuss!:)

[Bobzilla]

Before all you monday morning trainers banter about Pletcher's decision to run in the FL derby as opposed to the Wood or elsewhere:


Keep this in mind:

I want revenge is just as dangerous a foe as Quality Road.
(and in my opinion, still is, I actually think he's better.)

Other horses in the Wood may be more dangerous then the FL derby.

(IE Shug's horse)

You miss training when you ship, and the horse was pointed to this race.

You're more likely to get better weather in FL then NY.

If you lose the FL derby but run second, you could run once more to get in the kentucky derby if you had to.
If you race in the Wood, you cant run again prior to the Derby.
(you could but it will compromise your Kent. chances severely)

It's easy to find the open receiver while watching on TV, try hitting him when on the field when the blitz is coming!


Far be it from myself to second guess the decisions of a horseman like Pletcher. I'm too busy redboarding my own miserable prognosticating of Saturday's race as a handicapper/player. With the benefit of hinsight it's a useful practice to see where I went off the beam, as I thought Dunkirk would blow right by Quality Road regardless of how the early parts of the race played out. Your points are well taken in regard to why Pletcher might have chosen the Florida Derby over the Wood Memorial and I agree, despite QR's race the other day IWR is probably better, defintely more experienced. Though Dunkirk could still be entered in the Lexington or the Derby Trail, it's difficult for me to envision Pletcher entering his horse in either as he's well known to prefer four weeks between races to three, never mind one or two. At least they have that option if they wish to try it.

[rokitman]

The track was fair enough to Dunkirk to be ahead of the third choice by 6 lengths but not fair enough for the 1 1/2 lengths he couldn't make up on the winner??? What a bunch of convoluted nonsense.The track is very fast for Florida Derby day every year. They were supposed to do it different this year to please Pletcher? I guess they didn't get the memo. I hope he gets into the Derby so he can get beat like a drum.

[Relwob Owner]

The track was fair enough to Dunkirk to be ahead of the third choice by 6 lengths but not fair enough for the 1 1/2 lengths he couldn't make up on the winner??? What a bunch of convoluted nonsense.The track is very fast for Florida Derby day every year. They were supposed to do it different this year to please Pletcher? I guess they didn't get the memo. I hope he gets into the Derby so he can get beat like a drum.


I gotta admit, I am surprised at all of the negativity towards Pletcher....personally, I think the guy comes off as a class act and represents the sport well....he has handled the "Why havent you won a Derby" stuff well...many complain about Horse Racing losing popularity and I often consider who the non fan sees when racing is on-Pletcher is a guy I hope they see when they turn the TV on and catch a big race.

As far as Saturday goes, I dont know if Pletcher was right or wrong-however, I think criticism coming from him needs to be taken seriously because I cant remember him whining about much before....as far as the track being souped up, he is smart enough to realize that. However, i get the impression that the Gulfstream mgmt told him it wouldnt be as bad as it was in order to get him to run and he felt they lied to him....as I have said before, other trainers pop pff and it is "refreshing candor" and he does and its whining....dont get it but that is just my opinion.

[rokitman]

Trainers aren't commonly on national TV talking about their extremely over-hyped, and beaten, horse. What he said was probably no more complex than a guy being very embarrassed.


If you recall, last year Big Brown was in a post position with a very bad history. Trainers were known to scratch from there. All the yakking was about BB's "unwinnable" post. There was no scratch, and no whining required afterwords.

Anybody who thinks that they really know Pletchers make-up is delusional.

By the way, who was Pletcher's no. 1 jock on?

[matthewsiv]

They had some rain in the night before at Gulfstream,so this might have affected the track?

The best horse won the race and would still have won if they went another 1/8th of a mile.

Dunkirk headed him coming into the straight and QR beat him fair and square,and is a real Derby horse.

The track at Gulfstream was just as fast as Churchill Downs will be for The Derby.

Pletcher has little top class ammunition and the Coolmore team are struggling to find a good horse.

If Dunkirk needed the time they should have planned to skip the Derby and headed for the Belmont and the other big races later in the year.

Pletcher is not having the season of past years due to loss of owners who have died or moved onto other trainers.

The pressure of the job with the above reasons is the reason for the outburst.

He well knows what it takes to qualify a horse for the Derby.

For what it is worth,I think that Pletcher is a good guy and is great for the game and a top class Ambassador for the sport.

This is just my opinion.

[Relwob Owner]

They had some rain in the night before at Gulfstream,so this might have affected the track?

The best horse won the race and would still have won if they went another 1/8th of a mile.

Dunkirk headed him coming into the straight and QR beat him fair and square,and is a real Derby horse.

The track at Gulfstream was just as fast as Churchill Downs will be for The Derby.

Pletcher has little top class ammunition and the Coolmore team are struggling to find a good horse.

If Dunkirk needed the time they should have planned to skip the Derby and headed for the Belmont and the other big races later in the year.

Pletcher is not having the season of past years due to loss of owners who have died or moved onto other trainers.

The pressure of the job with the above reasons is the reason for the outburst.

He well knows what it takes to qualify a horse for the Derby.

For what it is worth,I think that Pletcher is a good guy and is great for the game and a top class Ambassador for the sport.

This is just my opinion.


I agree on all counts.....I also think there is more than meets they eye in terms of his relationship with Gulfstream....In addition, I dont think his intent was to whine because he is seasoned enough to realize the better horse won---I think he wanted to publicly stick it to the Gulfstream management and that was his best shot....too bad that due to the timing, he come across to some a sa whiner...

[PaceAdvantage]

They had some rain in the night before at Gulfstream,so this might have affected the track?And it hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread that Dunkirk and Gomez were covered in mud as they galloped back after the race.

For a fast track, it must have been awfully wet to generate that kind of mess.

[cj]

And it hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread that Dunkirk and Gomez were covered in mud as they galloped back after the race.

For a fast track, it must have been awfully wet to generate that kind of mess.

...which many times leads to very fast tracks.

[Niko]

This is the first time he complained about the track surface. he isnt the only one all of a sudden GP decides to change the surface as of last Wednesday, that is the reason he is bitching and rightfully so.

I'm glad it's finally a notable trainer bitching about it instead of telling us horseplayers that it's just our imagination...maybe someone will finally listen and something may actually happen if the big boys get together.

[dave the horseman]

Before I even heard Pletcher speak I saw the track condition. I watched the race and told my buddy, "it looks like a parking lot", you couldnt see any marks from the harrows, then Pletcher spoke and I knew I was right. Racing doesnt need these kind of risks, we cant afford another high profile breakdown this year. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[joanied]

I think sealed surfaces should be banned....does no horse any good to run on a surface like that.

[DrugS]

Quality Road was assigned a 103 Beyer. That's the official number.

Looking at the PP's for the Derby future wager in the DRF race of the week section ... it would appear that the number is now a 111.

[cj]

Looking at the PP's for the Derby future wager in the DRF race of the week section ... it would appear that the number is now a 111.

It was recently changed.

[Spendabuck85]

Capital OTB just played an interview with Todd Pletcher and following are not direct quotes. He said his feelings about the track condition remain the same but looking back perhaps he should not have stated them publicly. He also said his comments to track mangement were made before the Florida Derby after watching the earlier races on the card and that he not did feel that the track was changed to benefit any particular horse.

Also, he said Dunkirk would absolutely not run again before the Kentucky Derby.

[joanied]

Not many will know about this interview...but ya know, I hope racing isn't going to become 'politically correct' about what trainers/jockeys/owners say on TV...his statement on the track condition was said in the heat of the moment...he should be forgiven that...he maybe should have elaborated on what he said at the time...water under the bridge.
I really would hate to see trainers ect have to be careful about what they say, as not to ruffle anyone's feathers....ya know...free spech and all that!

Guess Dunkirk, IF he gets in will be another fresh horse for the Derby...it's been talked about here, the 'win and your in' thing...I hope Dunkirk won't get shut out because of this, and guess Pletcher and Dunkirk's connects are just going to let 'fate' decide, rather than putting him in another race to get the earnings.

[PaceAdvantage]

Also, he said Dunkirk would absolutely not run again before the Kentucky Derby.He said this right before the Florida Derby as well...win or lose, the Fla Derby would be Dunkirk's last start before the Ky. Derby. If they don't make the field, then so be it...he'll point to the Preakness.

[Relwob Owner]

Not many will know about this interview...but ya know, I hope racing isn't going to become 'politically correct' about what trainers/jockeys/owners say on TV...his statement on the track condition was said in the heat of the moment...he should be forgiven that...he maybe should have elaborated on what he said at the time...water under the bridge.
I really would hate to see trainers ect have to be careful about what they say, as not to ruffle anyone's feathers....ya know...free spech and all that!

Guess Dunkirk, IF he gets in will be another fresh horse for the Derby...it's been talked about here, the 'win and your in' thing...I hope Dunkirk won't get shut out because of this, and guess Pletcher and Dunkirk's connects are just going to let 'fate' decide, rather than putting him in another race to get the earnings.


I agree....it is good to see trainers and other horse people take on management from time to time....nothing is going to change or get better in our great sport unless people start speaking up more....it was construed as sour grapes by some but so what---he thinks he wa spromised something and felt like he was lied to and that would piss me off too!

[fmolf]

it also screws up the comparison handicapping for the kentucky derby....who knows no how fast quality road really is....were only guessing now!

[NY BRED]

Track conditions can change based upon weather conditions or track
personnel.At various points, that works as an advantage to
any particular horse, and as a disadvantage to others.

I'm sure Todd has benefited at least once in his career with
a change in track condition which allowed one of his "inferior"
horses to beat a superior horse due to the tack condition or even
by a jock who correctly judged the pace of a race better than
a Jock riding the apparent favorite.


Admitting Q.R. ran a great ride and then bashing GP's track crew
gives a racing a bad rep, especially to the novice fan.

[slewis]

Track conditions can change based upon weather conditions or track
personnel.At various points, that works as an advantage to
any particular horse, and as a disadvantage to others.

I'm sure Todd has benefited at least once in his career with
a change in track condition which allowed one of his "inferior"
horses to beat a superior horse due to the tack condition or even
by a jock who correctly judged the pace of a race better than
a Jock riding the apparent favorite.


Admitting Q.R. ran a great ride and then bashing GP's track crew
gives a racing a bad rep, especially to the novice fan.


Gary,

Im going to take issue with your statements here.

Gulfstream's management and track super should be ashamed of themselves.
You say that Pletcher's remarks give racing a bad rep??

I say horses breaking down in major races gives racing a worse rep.
Last year it poured the night before the Kentucky Derby... I walked that track prior to the race... How do you think they got the water out???
They had guys standing on the floats while the tractor pulled them to SQUEEZE the water out. They pounded the Sh*t out of it, it was rock hard.
Scraping that track (gulfstream) to post dazzling times was BAD management, and Im surprised from someone like Stronach who breeds and races.
Im convinced that the fact that they carded only 1 two turn dirt race that day was well crafted into the stupidity.... because had they carded another (ask any good speed figure maker) it would reveal how impressive (or not) Quality Roads race was. Thats why they changed the Beyer too.
Im also wondering what effect it might have had on a hoof that had been patched previously?
For those that dont know, when the hoof hits the ground, a slight expansion takes place. The shoe keeps that expansion (which is necessary for blood flow) to a minimum. (The bar shoe restricts that expansion even greater).
The harder the surface, the greater expansion, (and force excerted on bones and joints). It also cant help an old quarter crack, or a problem which might not have grown fully out yet.
So.....
Why not run the race on Hallendale Beach Blvd instead? They'll go an even faster mile and an eighth?
Whoopie!

[Relwob Owner]

Track conditions can change based upon weather conditions or track
personnel.At various points, that works as an advantage to
any particular horse, and as a disadvantage to others.

I'm sure Todd has benefited at least once in his career with
a change in track condition which allowed one of his "inferior"
horses to beat a superior horse due to the tack condition or even
by a jock who correctly judged the pace of a race better than
a Jock riding the apparent favorite.


Admitting Q.R. ran a great ride and then bashing GP's track crew
gives a racing a bad rep, especially to the novice fan.


Honestly, I dont agree with you at all....in every other sport, coaches and players rip the officials incessantly and I dont think it was such a big deal that he did....i was with novice fans watching and they all thought it was cool that he was being so honest and asked me what the issue was.....one of racing's biggest problems is that people just stay quiet and accept all the problems we have.....Pletcher's deal was pretty simple as far as I can tell....he asked beforehand if the track would be souped up like it normally is on big race days, GS said no and then it was, from his point of view....so, he called them on it. Yes, timing wise, it came across as whining but whatever---horse racing needs people to speak up so we can get things changed when they need to be.