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BMeadow
03-24-2009, 05:01 PM
The California Horse Racing Board is soliciting public comments regarding a proposal to overturn the restriction against California players earning rebates. Here is the letter I wrote to the Board:

My wife loves to shop at Bed Bath and Beyond--but only if she has a coupon. When she gets a discount, she spends a lot of money. When she gets no discount, she spends no money. Bed Bath and Beyond is happy to offer her a discount, because the store makes money when she shops there.

I wrote a book, Money Secrets At The Racetrack. If I sell it at my office, I collect $24.95. If I sell it to Amazon (who can sell it for whatever they want), I collect only $11.23. So why do I let Amazon sell it? Because they will sell many, many more copies than I could myself. If they choose to sell it for $13, why is this my problem? None of these customers are driving to my office anyway!

Give me a rebate and I bet more, much more. No rebate, no action. A true story from several years ago:
I was contacted by a computer handicapper who said he had a program that was break even over thousands of races. I worked out a deal with a rebate shop to give me 10% back on everything I bet. For the next several months, I bet thousands of dollars per day on horses I knew nothing about across the county. As it turned out, the computer program was break even--but only after we got the 10% back, so after several months, we pulled the plug. Meantime, I had wagered nearly $1 million. Of this, approximately $100,000 was rebated to me (which covered the betting losses) and an additional $80,000 (we figured the combined takeout was somewhere around 18%) was left to the ADW, the tracks, the horsemen, and the various states. That's $80,000 in free money which NEVER would have been collected without the rebates.

Today, unfortunately, because the tracks have charged the rebate shops a lot more money for their signals, that 10% on win bets is only a memory. Still, some rebates are always better than no rebates. In just about every business, volume costumers get lower prices. Why shouldn't it be that way for horse racing? If the track sells a signal to an ADW for 6%, why should the track care what the ADW does after that? If it wants to keep expenses down and return most of its money to its customers, how is that bad? Does anybody seriously think that players using rebate shops would be driving to the racetrack instead?

In Las Vegas, a common deal for the biggest whales is to offer 10% back on losses (a man who loses $1 million will get $100,000 back). For lower-level players, comps are easily obtainable (right now in my pending file, I have offers from half a dozen casino-hotels offering me everything from free suites to free shows to free meals to free cash just for showing up, while the best I can do at racetracks is go to free Fridays with $1 hot dogs at Santa Anita). It's only smart business.

California's foolish restriction on rebates has cost it untold amounts of money. Rebates mean more money back to players, which increases churn. It also means that I might make a bet on a marginal horse instead of keeping the money in my pocket.

The rule has also turned some players into underground players--betting with offshore racebooks, using phony documents to pretend they're from another state, using cell phones with out-of-state numbers, etc. All of this would end immediately if California officially permitted rebates.

The time is way, way, way overdue to end this crazy restriction on the free market.

Tuffmug
03-24-2009, 05:41 PM
Barry,

Nice letter but way too long! You made your point with just one sentence in your letter:

"Give me a rebate and I bet more, much more. No rebate, no action."!!!!


Tuffmug

rrbauer
03-24-2009, 06:12 PM
Barry,

Nice letter but way too long! You made your point with just one sentence in your letter:

"Give me a rebate and I bet more, much more. No rebate, no action."!!!!


Tuffmug
I agree that one sentence is enough if you're tuned in to the issue. But,
nothing that Barry Meadow writes is too long. Gamblers (not just horseplayers) should focus on all that he has to offer when it comes to stretching dollars. As for the bureaucrats at the CHRB, they need multiple examples just to give them a chance at the "Aha" experience and time to get their heads out of the "sand".

DanG
03-24-2009, 06:46 PM
That letter should be forwarded to every living soul who has any impact on our sports betting structure.

Thanks for writing it; and thanks for still caring enough to keep fighting for our sports fiscal sanity.

InsideThePylons-MW
03-24-2009, 08:40 PM
Barry,

"Seems to me the professional exploitation of small bettors with the assistance of both horsemen and bet takers isn’t all that different from the unbridled capitalism responsible for our financial system’s collapse. Big bettors didn’t need rebates to wind up in the black prior to simulcasting,"

"Your decision to make a livelihood from betting on horses doesn’t exempt you -- and those who facilitate and profit from your pursuing your under-reported advantage -- from the ethical considerations of preying on the uninformed and unreachable. NY OTBs apparently saved us from the clutches of illegal bookmakers only to deliver us into the hands of rebated professionals who dominate the now coveted pick six pools with their bankrolls. If racing is to recover through the promotion of its gambling aspect, it will have to sacrifice the market manipulation aspect and give all a sporting chance."

Cangamble
03-24-2009, 09:01 PM
Barry,

"Seems to me the professional exploitation of small bettors with the assistance of both horsemen and bet takers isn’t all that different from the unbridled capitalism responsible for our financial system’s collapse. Big bettors didn’t need rebates to wind up in the black prior to simulcasting,"

"Your decision to make a livelihood from betting on horses doesn’t exempt you -- and those who facilitate and profit from your pursuing your under-reported advantage -- from the ethical considerations of preying on the uninformed and unreachable. NY OTBs apparently saved us from the clutches of illegal bookmakers only to deliver us into the hands of rebated professionals who dominate the now coveted pick six pools with their bankrolls. If racing is to recover through the promotion of its gambling aspect, it will have to sacrifice the market manipulation aspect and give all a sporting chance."
Do you call a sports bettor who wins in the long run at football because of a system he has come up with an exploiter?

InsideThePylons-MW
03-24-2009, 10:00 PM
Do you call a sports bettor who wins in the long run at football because of a system he has come up with an exploiter?

Post #64 http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=643440#post643440

I'm still working on JFK timetables and swallows returning to Capistrano so I have no opinion on this topic.

Indulto
03-25-2009, 04:03 AM
Mr. Meadow,

I don’t disavow my responses to ITP in the thread he linked to, but if you decide to actually address my position on rebates, please use my recent contribution to the HANA blog, Guest Post - Fans Matter (http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2009/03/guest-post-fans-matter.html).

I acquired the Horseplayers EXPO DVD set primarily for your panel’s session, “Rebates: Who, What, Where, Are They Unfair, and Do They Harm the Casual Customer?” Perhaps my copy is defective, but only the “Who, What, and Where” appeared to be covered by the panel and the associated PDF handout. If there actually was any discussion of how rebates effect the casual customer, I’d appreciate your sharing the salient points along with your personal take on the subject.

I was impressed to find that your talent as a speaker matched that of your writing.

pandy
03-31-2009, 12:06 AM
Excellent letter Barry, good examples. I know I bet a lot more with rebates.

Jeff P
03-31-2009, 04:05 AM
Barry,

Excellent analogy about your wife, coupons, and Bed Bath and Beyond.

You once told me that we horseplayers are really just consumers and betting on horses is just like spending money on any other commodity. I couldn't agree more.

Lower the price and we'll spend (churn) more. Lots more.

I know that's true in my case as well.


For those interested in speaking up, here's a link to the CHRB contact info page:
http://www.chrb.ca.gov/staff_directory.htm



-jp

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