Friesan Fire ? [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

draynay

03-20-2009, 02:43 PM

Sundown

03-20-2009, 03:23 PM

Do you, or anybody, have the splits for the Derby over the last several years? Probably be good to denote off track.

CincyHorseplayer

03-20-2009, 05:41 PM

Most Derby contenders haven't run 1 1/8 in mid March.And if they have it's been against nonstakes opposition.The only 2 horses that have been "tested" at 1 1/8 are Saratoga Sinner and The Pamplemousse.

We'll see how good Friesan Fire is when the distances stretch out and the competition gets tougher.A stable isn't going to ask a jockey to crack the whip on the horse to please us horseplayers by getting 110+ Beyers ya know??!!!But he's done eveything asked of him thus far.

GaryG

03-20-2009, 06:31 PM

Of course we will know more in a few weeks than we know now, but at this point FF has to be considered a serious 3yo. That is the 2nd time in a row that he rated kindly and then basically dusted the opposition. Jones knows how to bring a 3yo into the classics. To eliminate this colt now just makes no sense. Sure took to that wet track too.

joanied

03-20-2009, 06:39 PM

Robert Fischer

03-20-2009, 07:17 PM

These are good questions.

Friesan Fire appears to be the solid choice right now, (well really 2 weeks ago no one had him on top of their list), because he will get the distance and is a consistent performer. He is my number 1, but I am also rooting for someone else to step up and push him to a faster race.

Faster Fractions are the biggest question mark. Until he faces them we'll never know for sure how the extra pace will affect him. The Derby may or may not go in under 1:37, I think it will go under this year. The early splits will actually be more important than the mile split. My opinion is that Friesan Fire is so rateable that unless the jockey screws up and has him too close to the Derby pace, he will be perfectly fine and have no trouble moving up on the backstretch.

never 6f 1:13 - incorrect
FF won his maiden in 1:10 and 4 and had 3 other consecutive races where he ran 6F in less than 1:13 (Futurity, Nashua, Fairgrounds allowance)

9 furlong not an issue
With Friesan Fire there isn't really much question that he will get the distance. He runs on well, and he has a pedigree that says a stretch-out will actually help him at the same time it is hurting other horses. In other words he should run about as good at 10furlongs as he does at 1 1/16th, and a lot of his rivals will not.

Grade1 win not an issue
many of the G1 races to this point have been a mile or they have been on synthetic track. Neither of which bring out Friesan Fire's strengths, and neither would be worth shooting for at this point. IMO his best route to the Derby at this point is to train up and that the Blue Grass would be unwise.

Explain this to me....

This year...

Friesan Fire has not run 1 1/8th

Friesan Fire has never run below a 1:13 for 6 furlongs

Friesan Fire has never run below a 1:37 mile

Friesan Fire has never posted a Beyer over 100 on a fast track

Friesan Fire has not won a Grade 1

Yet... this is the choice by many to win the Derby ? Derby winners don't post times this slow and a horse with no foundation going a 1 1/8th has almost no shot of winning the Derby... I wonder if its EVER been done. Anyone know for sure?

Friesan Fire is a good horse but he has won against horses he will not face in the Derby. His splits suggest he is a good horse but no
Derby winner. :)

draynay

03-20-2009, 09:32 PM

These are good questions.

Friesan Fire appears to be the solid choice right now, (well really 2 weeks ago no one had him on top of their list), because he will get the distance and is a consistent performer. He is my number 1, but I am also rooting for someone else to step up and push him to a faster race.

Faster Fractions are the biggest question mark. Until he faces them we'll never know for sure how the extra pace will affect him. The Derby may or may not go in under 1:37, I think it will go under this year. The early splits will actually be more important than the mile split. My opinion is that Friesan Fire is so rateable that unless the jockey screws up and has him too close to the Derby pace, he will be perfectly fine and have no trouble moving up on the backstretch.

never 6f 1:13 - incorrect
FF won his maiden in 1:10 and 4 and had 3 other consecutive races where he ran 6F in less than 1:13 (Futurity, Nashua, Fairgrounds allowance)

9 furlong not an issue
With Friesan Fire there isn't really much question that he will get the distance. He runs on well, and he has a pedigree that says a stretch-out will actually help him at the same time it is hurting other horses. In other words he should run about as good at 10furlongs as he does at 1 1/16th, and a lot of his rivals will not.

Grade1 win not an issue
many of the G1 races to this point have been a mile or they have been on synthetic track. Neither of which bring out Friesan Fire's strengths, and neither would be worth shooting for at this point. IMO his best route to the Derby at this point is to train up and that the Blue Grass would be unwise.

Please note that I said "This year..."

Friesan Fire has never run below a 1:13.

And has it EVER been done training a horse 7 weeks before the Derby and never running a race over 1 1/16th ? How can ANYONE bet this horse if he off 7 weeks before the Derby? Why would ANYONE believe he could get the distance?

Compare his times to what Big Brown did last year in the Florida Derby and you are left with little confidence that Friesan Fire can win the Derby. The Pamplemousse will not be running a 1:13 and change! ;)

Bruddah

03-20-2009, 09:38 PM

Since 1987 there have been 332 Ky Derby starters...37 of which have been from the Bold Ruler sire line ( as is Friesan Fire) there have been 0 winners, 1 place, 2 show, 2- 4ths, and 2- 5ths.

Nineteen (19) of those with Bold Ruler sire lines were through Seattle Slew, as is Friesan Fire. Their records are 19- starters, 0 winners,1 place, 1 show, 2- 4ths, 1- 5th.

Friesan Fire is not impossible as Ky Derby winner, but not for me. I hope this will help some.

As for those who will continue with win betting Friesan Fire, Thank You from those of us who will not.

I am not siding for or against this argument or any who have posted, just quoting some personal db stats. :ThmbUp:

Robert Fischer

03-20-2009, 10:02 PM

Why would ANYONE believe he could get the distance?

1. Visually he looks very strong in the stretch.
2. His closing times are very strong
3. He has a very good distance pedigree, arguably the most stamina in his pedigree of any of the possible contenders.

At this point you should either agree, or disagree, with the 3 above points, but it should not be a mystery for you.

JPinMaryland

03-20-2009, 11:18 PM

If the horse ran a sub 1:13 as a two year old, why do you think he cannot do it now? That is some odd thinking..

Pell Mell

03-21-2009, 09:57 AM

Horses that just keep winning usually only run as fast as is necessary.

dartman51

03-21-2009, 12:36 PM

I bet him in the 1st DERBY POOL and got him @ 18-1, I think he's good enough to warrant a wager @ 18-1. JMHO:cool:

draynay

03-21-2009, 12:59 PM

If the horse ran a sub 1:13 as a two year old, why do you think he cannot do it now? That is some odd thinking..

The Derby is always run much faster than a 1:13 and as we all know its a 2 turn race. FF is going to see a pace 10 to 15 lengths faster than he has ever seen at 2 turns in the Derby.

Even his fractions early this year at a mile were very slow. Compare the fractions run by the Pamplemousse or by Quality Road at a mile and you will understand that the fractions FF is posting is not worthy of Derby consideration.

In his last race he posted a nice win but at this point so did Pyro last year.
My point is with little tactical speed he has a very small chance of hitting the board the first Saturday in May. :cool:

Two of the last 3 Derby winners have come out of the Florida Derby... there is a reason for that ! Horses that do well at Gulfstream seem to do well at Churchill.

dylbert

03-21-2009, 01:09 PM

Explain this to me....

This year...

Friesan Fire has not run 1 1/8th

Friesan Fire has never run below a 1:13 for 6 furlongs

Friesan Fire has never run below a 1:37 mile

Friesan Fire has never posted a Beyer over 100 on a fast track

Friesan Fire has not won a Grade 1

Yet... this is the choice by many to win the Derby ? Derby winners don't post times this slow and a horse with no foundation going a 1 1/8th has almost no shot of winning the Derby... I wonder if its EVER been done. Anyone know for sure?

Friesan Fire is a good horse but he has won against horses he will not face in the Derby. His splits suggest he is a good horse but no
Derby winner. :)Friesan Fire just WINS! On May 2, you will remember horse that WINS, not some horse that has met some list of criteria.

War Emblem won Illinois Derby -- horses that win Illinois Derby don't win Kentucky Derby. WRONG!

Funny Cide lost Holy Bull, Louisiana Derby, and Wood Memorial. Losers don't win Kentucky Derby. WRONG!

Giacomo finished fourth in his last prep, Santa Anita Derby. Horses that finish off the board don't win Kentucky Derby. WRONG!

My suggestion here is that many, many criteria are cited by pundits as keys to winning Kentucky Derby. Some are valid, some of the time... However, I don't believe that all are valid, all of the time.

With seven weeks left on Derby Trail, many developments will occur and some new stories will likely unfold. Let's watch, enjoy, wonder, and wager!

My favorite truism that I want busted is -- no horse that competes in Delta Jackpot can win Kentucky Derby. Closing Argument ran second in 2005. Big Drama is off trail. However, Terrain, third in last week's Louisiana Derby and West Side Bernie, who goes in today's Lane's End at Turfway Park, appear to be moving forward to Kentucky Derby starting gate.

GaryG

03-21-2009, 01:22 PM

Two of the last 3 Derby winners have come out of the Florida Derby... there is a reason for that ! Horses that do well at Gulfstream seem to do well at Churchill.Two of the last three? Oh, we have a statistical trend here.....now I see. :lol: :lol:

miesque

03-21-2009, 01:59 PM

Two of the last three? Oh, we have a statistical trend here.....now I see. :lol: :lol:

Yes, the selective picking of data and espousing it as absolute fact is pretty amusing. Its been a while since I have seen this many statements of fact that you can drive a Mack truck through.

WinterTriangle

03-21-2009, 02:15 PM

IMHO, Draynay, the KY Derby will be won by a horse "on the improve".

It's run in May, not March. ;) Seems many people forget that small detail.

sandpit

03-21-2009, 02:26 PM

The Derby is always run much faster than a 1:13 and as we all know its a 2 turn race. FF is going to see a pace 10 to 15 lengths faster than he has ever seen at 2 turns in the Derby.

Even his fractions early this year at a mile were very slow. Compare the fractions run by the Pamplemousse or by Quality Road at a mile and you will understand that the fractions FF is posting is not worthy of Derby consideration.

In his last race he posted a nice win but at this point so did Pyro last year.
My point is with little tactical speed he has a very small chance of hitting the board the first Saturday in May. :cool:

Two of the last 3 Derby winners have come out of the Florida Derby... there is a reason for that ! Horses that do well at Gulfstream seem to do well at Churchill.

I'm not on or off the FF bandwagon, but these comparisons are ridiculous...Pyro??? Pyro was a miler and ran and looked like it...

The Derby has fast splits only because so many owners put their speedball milers/sprinters in the race even though there is no shot of them winning...Keyed Entry, Brancusi, Stormello, Spanish Chestnut, Songandaprayer, Rock and Roll, Honour and Glory...you can find dozens of them. If FF is trained in a manner to not go out and try to run with the other speedsters, and I don't see any reason he won't be, why can't he lay off that pace and make his run?

Florida Derby...Big Brown could have been prepping in the Sahara and beat that bunch. You could pick any race at some point in history and say the best horses come from track "x, y or z"...why not cite the Arky. Derby for Smarty, Afleet Alex and Curlin for Triple Crown success?

dartman51

03-21-2009, 02:53 PM

Two of the last 3 Derby winners have come out of the Florida Derby... there is a reason for that ! Horses that do well at Gulfstream seem to do well at Churchill.
And prior to that, in 2000, 2001 and 2003(that's 3 out of 4) derby winners came out of the Wood Memorial, BUT, NONE since. That argument doesn't carry much weight. I remember for years it was all about dosage, now it plays a minor part. Bottom line is, who is PEAKING at the right time. 34% of winners in the last 47 years have come out of the BLUEGRASS, so I guess we need to WAIT for the BLUEGRASS. Oh, and those 2 winners out of Fla?? Those ere the ONLY 2 in the last 47 years.

draynay

03-21-2009, 02:54 PM

I'm not on or off the FF bandwagon, but these comparisons are ridiculous...Pyro??? Pyro was a miler and ran and looked like it...

The Derby has fast splits only because so many owners put their speedball milers/sprinters in the race even though there is no shot of them winning...Keyed Entry, Brancusi, Stormello, Spanish Chestnut, Songandaprayer, Rock and Roll, Honour and Glory...you can find dozens of them. If FF is trained in a manner to not go out and try to run with the other speedsters, and I don't see any reason he won't be, why can't he lay off that pace and make his run?

Florida Derby...Big Brown could have been prepping in the Sahara and beat that bunch. You could pick any race at some point in history and say the best horses come from track "x, y or z"...why not cite the Arky. Derby for Smarty, Afleet Alex and Curlin for Triple Crown success?

Many at this point last year had Pyro listed #1 and even the great Jerry Bailey picked Pyro to win the Derby on Derby Day!

Look where the winners of the Derby are at 6 furlongs. The winner is almost always within 5 lengths of the leader. You can count on a pace around 1:11 if not faster but this would require FF to run 1:12 or better and he has not come close to that all year. Why believe he will suddenly do it in the Kentucky Derby?

One final thought "that bunch" was a talented bunch. Stakes wins this year prove that the 3 year old class last year was a good one. How many G1 races do Tale of Ekati and Colonel John have to win before they are considered good horses? Smooth Air has won stakes races at 7 furlongs, a mile, at 1 1/8th and on turf... how many can say that over the last 20 years?

dartman51

03-21-2009, 03:02 PM

The night before the Derby, THROW OUT ANY horse that did not finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd in his final prep race and concentrate on the rest. 44 out of the last 47 (94%) did just that.

Robert Fischer

03-21-2009, 05:03 PM

Pyro??? Pyro was a miler and ran and looked like it...
it should have been obvious , but thank goodness that it isn't.
Unfortunately even the connections went and ran him on a tiring surface 9 furlongs in the Blue Grass, or the payouts would have been even more for the KD.

This is a parimutuel system, so days like the derby and any race where the public is wrong is what makes it worth taking seriously.

horses like pyro,ekati,smooth air... they have some quality and that confuses a lot of fans when they are handicapping them for a top class 3yo race at 10 furlongs. It's hard for many people to say "this is one of the better horses, but he's a miler"...

Cat Thief

03-21-2009, 05:56 PM

I read somewhere Big Drama is working and will be racing soon, maybe on the undercard of the Florida Derby or some other race.

sandpit

03-22-2009, 01:30 PM

Many at this point last year had Pyro listed #1 and even the great Jerry Bailey picked Pyro to win the Derby on Derby Day!

Look where the winners of the Derby are at 6 furlongs. The winner is almost always within 5 lengths of the leader. You can count on a pace around 1:11 if not faster but this would require FF to run 1:12 or better and he has not come close to that all year. Why believe he will suddenly do it in the Kentucky Derby?

One final thought "that bunch" was a talented bunch. Stakes wins this year prove that the 3 year old class last year was a good one. How many G1 races do Tale of Ekati and Colonel John have to win before they are considered good horses? Smooth Air has won stakes races at 7 furlongs, a mile, at 1 1/8th and on turf... how many can say that over the last 20 years?

Thank God I don't look to Jerry Bailey for handicapping advice; jock's agents have a much better grasp of that aspect.

I'm gonna reserve judgment on what FF can or can't do when I see two things: 1. His last Derby prep, if there is one; and 2. How he trains at CD. This doesn't mean blistering workouts (like Old Trieste had in his final breeze), but how the horse is acclimating to the surroundings. IMO, this is the single biggest factor in picking out a Derby winner. Horses like Barbaro, Smarty Jones, Funny Cide and Charismatic are just a few that did everything perfectly at CD and it showed on Derby Day. On the other hand, Afleet Alex, Brother Derek, Sweetnorthernsaint and Colonel John are all examples of horses that had a less than ideal time Derby Week....we'll see what happens this year, but at least Larry Jones has been through this before.

I agree somewhat that last year's crop has vindicated itself somewhat, as has been discussed elsewhere on this board. But, I still maintain that at the time of the Derby, Big Brown was many lengths better than his male counterpoints, and that was borne out with the filly besting them as well.

rastajenk

03-23-2009, 11:28 AM

When or where has last year's crop been vindicated? Who from Big Brown's bunch of also-rans has won a Grade One race against anything but his own class of bums? There may be one or two out there, but that's hardly vindication.

draynay asks some valid questions. The Pyro comparison is fair. Nobiz Like Showbiz, Dollar Bill, Bob and John, the last decade or Derby Trails is full of slow-running but highly respected future disappointments. I like Friesan Fire and I like Larry Jones, but he deserves to fetch a nice price, not be one of the faves, at this point or in six weeks.

Edited to add: I just read draynay's remarks in the other thread, and it's clear he saved all his cogent arguments for this thread, 'cause his claims in the other are completely divorced from reality.

slewis

03-23-2009, 11:34 AM

When or where has last year's crop been vindicated? Who from Big Brown's bunch of also-rans has won a Grade One race against anything but his own class of bums? There may be one or two out there, but that's hardly vindication.

draynay asks some valid questions. The Pyro comparison is fair. Nobiz Like Showbiz, Dollar Bill, Bob and John, the last decade or Derby Trails is full of slow-running but highly respected future disappointments. I like Friesan Fire and I like Larry Jones, but he deserves to fetch a nice price, not be one of the faves, at this point or in six weeks.

Yeah, like Tale of Ekati???? A horse like that could never beat older horses and win a graded race.

rastajenk

03-23-2009, 11:39 AM

Still waiting for "the class" to be vindicated....So far they have one GI win (via DQ).

Tread

03-23-2009, 11:56 AM

at 8 furlongs

GaryG

03-23-2009, 12:00 PM

I can't believe the class of last years 3yo crop is still being debated. It was one of the worst in recent years, case closed.

draynay

03-23-2009, 12:50 PM

Yeah, like Tale of Ekati???? A horse like that could never beat older horses and win a graded race.

Tale of Ekati won multiple graded stakes at 2 and 3. He also won multiple G1 races at 3. Does he not deserve any respect at all?

He accomplished a lot more than Sham and they named a race after him ???

Just remember that a 3 year old that had won one race ALL YEAR came over and whipped Curlin and all the other OLDER horses. So please stop telling me how weak the 3 year old horses were last year. :bang:

supercap

03-23-2009, 03:17 PM

Tale of Ekati won multiple graded stakes at 2 and 3. He also won multiple G1 races at 3. Does he not deserve any respect at all?

He accomplished a lot more than Sham and they named a race after him ???

Just remember that a 3 year old that had won one race ALL YEAR came over and whipped Curlin and all the other OLDER horses. So please stop telling me how weak the 3 year old horses were last year. :bang:

Run on the dirt Curlin whips that 3 yearolds ass!

draynay

03-23-2009, 03:51 PM

Run on the dirt Curlin whips that 3 yearolds ass!

Yes ... we know ... if Curlin races on the dirt HE likes and the distance HE likes he will win against Wanderin Boy and Brass Hat.

Funny... Curlin made a career out of beating tired older horses but when he faced a decent 3 year old he got whipped. Good thing he didn't face the best 3 year old last year it would have been ugly. Twice he had to face a talented field last year and both times he lost.

Curlin couldn't win on poly and couldn't win on grass he was a one trick pony who accomplished much when his competition all retired. It wasn't the surface that beat him it was the talented horses that beat him. Stop blaming the surface better horses on that day beat him fair and square. :cool:

joanied

03-23-2009, 04:38 PM

I can't believe the class of last years 3yo crop is still being debated. It was one of the worst in recent years, case closed.

Wether or not last year's crop was a 'bad' bunch or not...that was then, this is now...I agree, GaryG...the subject of last year's horses has been beat to death!

Dahoss9698

03-23-2009, 05:12 PM

Yes ... we know ... if Curlin races on the dirt HE likes and the distance HE likes he will win against Wanderin Boy and Brass Hat.

Funny... Curlin made a career out of beating tired older horses but when he faced a decent 3 year old he got whipped. Good thing he didn't face the best 3 year old last year it would have been ugly. Twice he had to face a talented field last year and both times he lost.

Curlin couldn't win on poly and couldn't win on grass he was a one trick pony who accomplished much when his competition all retired. It wasn't the surface that beat him it was the talented horses that beat him. Stop blaming the surface better horses on that day beat him fair and square. :cool:

Curlin was a one trick pony? He traded decisions with horses like Hard Spun and Street Sense as a 3 year old, and destroyed them both in the Classic that year. What 3 year olds last year could run with Hard Spun or Street Sense, besides Big Brown?

draynay

03-23-2009, 06:08 PM

Curlin was a one trick pony? He traded decisions with horses like Hard Spun and Street Sense as a 3 year old, and destroyed them both in the Classic that year. What 3 year olds last year could run with Hard Spun or Street Sense, besides Big Brown?

Curlin lost most of his tough races. Yes he won the Preakness by a few inches but Street Sense was a one track horse and yes he won the Breeders Cup but he took to the slop and Hard Spun did not or he would have been long gone. He won in Dubai but lets face it there was no one there.

Curlin lost in the Derby, Belmont, Haskell, Turf, and the did not hit the board in the last Breeders Cup. 5 tough races all losses.

Street Sense was a very good horse at Churchill and a little more average on other tracks. Hard Spun was talented but more suited as a sprinter or miler.

For the record... Big Brown won as many triple crown races as Hard Spun, Curlin, and Street Sense COMBINED. ;)

DrugS

03-23-2009, 06:09 PM

Curlin was a one trick pony? He traded decisions with horses like Hard Spun and Street Sense as a 3 year old, and destroyed them both in the Classic that year. What 3 year olds last year could run with Hard Spun or Street Sense, besides Big Brown?

War Pass had the talent to anyway ... much like Big Brown ... he was a real profile of soundness.

DrugS

03-23-2009, 06:12 PM

For the record... Big Brown won as many triple crown races as Hard Spun, Curlin, and Street Sense COMBINED. ;)

Sarava won more than Skip Away, Holy Bull, and Ghostzapper combined.

Dahoss9698

03-23-2009, 07:24 PM

Curlin lost most of his tough races. Yes he won the Preakness by a few inches but Street Sense was a one track horse and yes he won the Breeders Cup but he took to the slop and Hard Spun did not or he would have been long gone. He won in Dubai but lets face it there was no one there.

Curlin lost in the Derby, Belmont, Haskell, Turf, and the did not hit the board in the last Breeders Cup. 5 tough races all losses.

Street Sense was a very good horse at Churchill and a little more average on other tracks. Hard Spun was talented but more suited as a sprinter or miler.

For the record... Big Brown won as many triple crown races as Hard Spun, Curlin, and Street Sense COMBINED. ;)

So on one hand, you say you can't blame Curlin's 4th in the BC this past year on the surface. But the year before you say he took to the track (surface)and another horse didn't. So it's okay to excuse it then? That's an interesting way of backing up your opinion.

By no means am I saying Curlin was a superstar. But he drowns all but two 3 year old males on the dirt last year. I'll ask again, what other 3 year old last year could compete with him on dirt?

the little guy

03-23-2009, 07:51 PM

That bum Curlin couldn't have warmed up Tale of Ekati........and forget about even comparing him to Da' Tara ( who also won more TC races that Skip Away, Holy Bull, and Ghostzapper combined ).

Bruddah

03-23-2009, 08:02 PM

That bum Curlin couldn't have warmed up Tale of Ekati........and forget about even comparing him to Da' Tara ( who also won more TC races that Skip Away, Holy Bull, and Ghostzapper combined ).

Me thinks TLG has been smoking something funny and nipping at old Jack Daniels.

I know you must be speaking with a forked tongue. ;)

philcski

03-24-2009, 09:45 AM

Explain this to me....

This year...

Friesan Fire has not run 1 1/8th

Friesan Fire has never run below a 1:13 for 6 furlongs

Friesan Fire has never run below a 1:37 mile

Friesan Fire has never posted a Beyer over 100 on a fast track

Friesan Fire has not won a Grade 1

Yet... this is the choice by many to win the Derby ? Derby winners don't post times this slow and a horse with no foundation going a 1 1/8th has almost no shot of winning the Derby... I wonder if its EVER been done. Anyone know for sure?

Friesan Fire is a good horse but he has won against horses he will not face in the Derby. His splits suggest he is a good horse but no
Derby winner. :)

How many mile and an eighth races have been available for 3yo's so far this year?

How many mile or mile and a sixteenth races at FG have had a split under 1:12 this year? How many of them went under 1:37 either to the mile, or final time? Why don't you look that up and get back to me.

How many Grade 1 races have been available for 3yo's to this point?

As a smart guy once told me, unless you do the research you end up sounding like an IDIOT.

In the meantime, why don't you go beat your head against a wall to figure out why "no Derby winner had raced 5 weeks out prior to Barbaro in 2006 since Needles" or some other nonsense debunked.

draynay

03-24-2009, 10:07 AM

How many mile and an eighth races have been available for 3yo's so far this year?

How many mile or mile and a sixteenth races at FG have had a split under 1:12 this year? How many of them went under 1:37 either to the mile, or final time? Why don't you look that up and get back to me.

How many Grade 1 races have been available for 3yo's to this point?

As a smart guy once told me, unless you do the research you end up sounding like an IDIOT.

In the meantime, why don't you go beat your head against a wall to figure out why "no Derby winner had raced 5 weeks out prior to Barbaro in 2006 since Needles" or some other nonsense debunked.

We will put you down for Friesan Fire for the Derby! Bet him big ! Hey come back after the Derby and tell us how much you bet on him to win. Thanks. ;)

philcski

03-24-2009, 10:16 AM

We will put you down for Friesan Fire for the Derby! Bet him big ! Hey come back after the Derby and tell us how much you bet on him to win. Thanks. ;)

Where in my post did I say that I was betting Friesan Fire in the Derby?

03-24-2009, 10:41 AM

Where in my post did I say that I was betting Friesan Fire in the Derby?

It is easier for him to make stuff up than to respond to your valid points.

Bruddah

03-24-2009, 12:15 PM

philcski

03-24-2009, 01:21 PM

Is it hard for you to argue against facts? Respond with facts only please.

Exclusive Native has TWO Derby winners despite being just an OK sire. Mr. Prospector, an absolute legend, had hundreds of runners before getting a Derby winner after he died. Elusive Quality was a miler who supposedly only got milers that couldn't go a mile and a quarter, and now he's got a Derby winner AND a BCC winner AND another leading TC contender. Boundary (!!) is the sire of the reigning Derby champion. It's pretty easy to make up a ton of "rules" for a race that is run once a year, especially when you convienently choose a 20 year period to study... even when your facts are accurate and well thought out (unlike his.)