View Full Version : SCOTT LAKE FILES FOR BANKRUPTCY
Maryland Owner
03-13-2009, 11:46 AM
Yup - Mr. Lake has filed for Bankruptcy - he filed a voluntary petition in the Eastern District of New York - The petition number is 8-09-71355-ast -
It is a Chapter 11 filing - was filed on 3/04/09
onefast99
03-13-2009, 11:55 AM
Yup - Mr. Lake has filed for Bankruptcy - he filed a voluntary petition in the Eastern District of New York - The petition number is 8-09-71355-ast -
It is a Chapter 11 filing - was filed on 3/04/09
A story that may be worth watching as it unfolds, all that success and a bk? Hmmmm.
JWBurnie
03-13-2009, 12:12 PM
:lol: :) :ThmbUp: :cool: :p :D
kenwoodallpromos
03-13-2009, 01:51 PM
I wish to speak for any older horses he has claimed and run into the ground; Serves you right!! (Another excuse to mention STORMY DO!)
MickJ26
03-13-2009, 02:35 PM
Probably bad news for his assistants, hotwalkers, grooms, etc.
Relwob Owner
03-13-2009, 02:46 PM
A story that may be worth watching as it unfolds, all that success and a bk? Hmmmm.
Definitely strange to say the least.....hard to imagine that it is from just horse racing training....gotta think he got into some other investments that went South.
I do remember a story on TVG a few years ago saying he was getting more into buying at sales....
BIG RED
03-13-2009, 02:49 PM
He just is trying for a piece of the PIE
I'll bet it's business as usual at the Lake barn. Look at the owner of the Philadelphia Inquirer, McClatchy Corp., which filed bankruptcy last month. They're still printing as if nothing happened.
BIG RED
03-13-2009, 03:05 PM
The Boston Globe is too...
LOL, look at this Lake quote from the Blood-Horse:
"When contacted by telephone, Lake told The Blood-Horse: “For you to print something in your magazine about this is a classless move.”"
Here's the link to the story:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/49642/trainer-lake-files-for-bankruptcy
Relwob Owner
03-13-2009, 03:22 PM
LOL, look at this Lake quote from the Blood-Horse:
"When contacted by telephone, Lake told The Blood-Horse: “For you to print something in your magazine about this is a classless move.”"
Here's the link to the story:
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/49642/trainer-lake-files-for-bankruptcy
What goes around comes around.....nothing better than him telling someone else they are classless, considering some of his more prominent owners
onefast99
03-13-2009, 04:17 PM
I'll bet it's business as usual at the Lake barn. Look at the owner of the Philadelphia Inquirer, McClatchy Corp., which filed bankruptcy last month. They're still printing as if nothing happened.
He will have a nice plan set up for him, paying off his creditors a few cents on the dollar. Cash is king will be his new saying as he will pay for everything upon delivery to his facilities. BK is the oldest form of a bailout. I wonder if the owners will stand by him. Should be interesting.
proximity
03-13-2009, 05:33 PM
A story that may be worth watching as it unfolds, all that success and a bk? Hmmmm.
he needs to start over with a legitimate accountant this time around....
Maryland Owner
03-13-2009, 05:45 PM
not paying the trade folks - vets, farriers, van services etc. - all of which are listed as creditors. He should have to liquidate all horses in which he has an ownership interest. Pretty easy to be leading owner or trainer when you don't pay anyone.
Shemp Howard
03-13-2009, 06:21 PM
Re: I wonder if the owners will stick by him.
Methinks it's the owners that are at the root of his problem.
Relwob Owner
03-13-2009, 06:50 PM
Re: I wonder if the owners will stick by him.
Methinks it's the owners that are at the root of his problem.
I dont know....seems to me that he has pretty high profile experienced owners who would pay bills on time----I smell bad investments, maybe ion something outside horse racing?
Mineshaft
03-13-2009, 07:10 PM
Wow this is interesting. I guess having 200 horses at at least $75 a day wasnt paying the bills.
I dont know....seems to me that he has pretty high profile experienced owners who would pay bills on time----I smell bad investments, maybe ion something outside horse racing?
I think Relwob Owner has hit the nail on the head.
JWBurnie
03-13-2009, 07:51 PM
Over extending himself on a couple homes in FL/NY would easily put him in a tough spot. As mentioned before, a couple high priced auction failures won't help either.
CryingForTheHorses
03-13-2009, 08:16 PM
The cost of running a barn is very expensive,I myself have 10 horses and it easily surpasses 10k a month.I hate to imagine what his costs are with all the help and workmans comp etc.Not paying a feed bill one month can turn into a nightmare by the time the next one comes along.I myself dont really know the man but its sad to see anyone who has worked had to go down the tubes.
macguy
03-13-2009, 09:11 PM
The cost of running a barn is very expensive,I myself have 10 horses and it easily surpasses 10k a month.I hate to imagine what his costs are with all the help and workmans comp etc.Not paying a feed bill one month can turn into a nightmare by the time the next one comes along.I myself dont really know the man but its sad to see anyone who has worked had to go down the tubes.
Though I know nothing about Scott Lake's personal finances, I can certainly second the fact that horse racing has got to be the easiest sport to go bankrupt in.
Doesn't matter if your horses are winning or losing, if they are 5K claimers or million dollar stakes horses. Every single day they need to be fed, cleaned, bedded, and cared for. Every single day. 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
Falling behind on just a few bills starts to add up and snowball real fast.
you guys are quick to serve judgement on the guy. accountants steal owners dont pay on time and you havr to carry them for months you have no idea what it takes to run an operation like this. walk in his shoes before you throw stones
TonyK@HSH
03-13-2009, 09:45 PM
you guys are quick to serve judgement on the guy. accountants steal owners dont pay on time and you havr to carry them for months you have no idea what it takes to run an operation like this. walk in his shoes before you throw stones
Not making any excuses for Scott- but he did have an accountant steal him blind by not paying the IRS their just dues. By the time Scott discovered this he was in VERY deep. It's a shame as Scott tried to help this guy- gave him a room in his home only to find out he's been scammed in a big way.
Scott can blame no one but himself as he simply didn't watch his finances closely. Got a bit complacent as the money was rolling in. Now it's easy come- easy go directly to the IRS.
I believe his operation will survive- maybe cut back a little but I do not see owners fleeing.
Best of luck to Scott as he recovers
TonyK
Relwob Owner
03-13-2009, 10:05 PM
Not making any excuses for Scott- but he did have an accountant steal him blind by not paying the IRS their just dues. By the time Scott discovered this he was in VERY deep. It's a shame as Scott tried to help this guy- gave him a room in his home only to find out he's been scammed in a big way.
Scott can blame no one but himself as he simply didn't watch his finances closely. Got a bit complacent as the money was rolling in. Now it's easy come- easy go directly to the IRS.
I believe his operation will survive- maybe cut back a little but I do not see owners fleeing.
Best of luck to Scott as he recovers
TonyK
Color me skeptical.....I have no idea what happened and dont pretend to....however, I will respond to this post....this really doesnt make much sense---you are saying that an accountant didnt have him pay his taxes...if that happened, i would think that given the size and success of his operation, he could work something out and not file bankruptcy.
overthehill
03-13-2009, 11:23 PM
this is purely speculation on my part, but it has been a common strategy of all sorts of financial advisors in the past several year to suggest to their clients that they borrow money thru various means and put that money into the stock market. I wouldnt take much for people who took their advice, saw their stock investments go down by 60-70% and are now facing requests from banks who want to reduce their credit lines to have no choice but to file for a voluntary reorganization. and it might even have anything to do with their normal business operations.
bushwick
03-14-2009, 10:22 AM
This is just a question related to this topic. If I owed taxes and filed BK do I still owe the taxes or not ? I always heard you couldnt get out of taxes.
Relwob Owner
03-14-2009, 10:27 AM
This is just a question related to this topic. If I owed taxes and filed BK do I still owe the taxes or not ? I always heard you couldnt get out of taxes.
That is why I questioned the idea that his accountant swindled him by not having him pay taxes....I am pretty sure that the govt doesnt take the loss as easily as regular creditors which makes me suspect it was some sort of investment thing that has hit so many other people.
onefast99
03-14-2009, 10:52 AM
This is just a question related to this topic. If I owed taxes and filed BK do I still owe the taxes or not ? I always heard you couldnt get out of taxes.
Yes.
Mineshaft
03-14-2009, 10:59 AM
Back taxes or taxes is not Bankruptable. Maybe someone can help me out here but i think thats the way it is.
Cangamble
03-14-2009, 11:37 AM
Back taxes or taxes is not Bankruptable. Maybe someone can help me out here but i think thats the way it is.
I believe you are right. It is the same in Canada and the US I believe. But if you owe the government and also owe a lot of creditors as well, and you don't have the assets or means to pay them off, or even the interest off, you can still go bankrupt and not take care of the non government creditors (I know that is a simple example).
In Ontario, I believe that a trainer can't run an operation until they are cleared from bankruptcy. Not that they could do it regardless. It is pretty hard to deal with a feed man you just stiffed for thousands, and other feed companies won't be inclined to deal with someone who stiffed another feed man.
JWBurnie
03-14-2009, 11:49 AM
In Lake's defense, I'm sure he had a fair number of clients go belly up and he was stuck holding the bill. I think a lot of trainers are dealing with that issue, and more now than ever.
I'm surprised a guy like Mike Gill, whose primary business was mortages, hasn't gone belly-up. He's still claiming horses like there's no tomorrow.
sally
03-14-2009, 12:59 PM
This is just a question related to this topic. If I owed taxes and filed BK do I still owe the taxes or not ? I always heard you couldnt get out of taxes.
The way I understand it... the government will SPEND a million dollars just to GET the 10 thousand you owe them...
we all fear the tax man...:eek:
JustRalph
03-14-2009, 04:24 PM
Tax Bankruptcy
http://www.irsproblem.org/content.php/filing-bankruptcy/5
Relwob Owner
03-14-2009, 04:54 PM
I am not really buying the story that he is floating out there....for him to have gone that long without paying taxes and not asking seems a little odd....I also dont think aproblem of this magnitude would be a result of owners not paying...I would think he would cut themoff before it got this bad....I smell bad investments.....
proximity
03-14-2009, 07:58 PM
. It's a shame as Scott tried to help this guy- gave him a room in his home only to find out he's been scammed in a big way.
you mean the accountant actually wasn't legitimate?:rolleyes:
TonyK@HSH
03-14-2009, 09:23 PM
Color me skeptical.....I have no idea what happened and dont pretend to....however, I will respond to this post....this really doesnt make much sense---you are saying that an accountant didnt have him pay his taxes...if that happened, i would think that given the size and success of his operation, he could work something out and not file bankruptcy.
In the spirit of full disclosure I should note that I am a friend of Scott's but that doesn't change the facts I presented. I certainly understand the skepticism though I'm pretty sure the main points of my post are correct. I know that Scott and his attorneys have been working with the IRS but I think the combination of IRS repayment and the cost of maintaining his business are too much.
The bankruptcy filing was intended to 'restructure' the debt so that he could continue to run his business and repay the liabilities. I'm sure Scott understands that the IRS debt will not be forgiven.
Hey- Scott has no one to blame but himself for the position he's in. He's well aware of that. Through the years he's pissed away a lot of discretionary income but it really was his ex-friend/accountant that proved the final nail in the coffin.
TonyK
stewartn
03-17-2009, 02:39 AM
Tony is correct and all the bad investment theories and other speculation floating around are completely baseless. The bottom line is Scott owes A LOT of money to the government and it wasn't possible to continue operating his business while carrying debt and also paying off the government. Poor business practices certainly played a big role in this process but the damage was done by his "friend" years ago and the subsequent debt and penalties finally caught up with him.
Any owner that bails based on the real circumstances is making the wrong move and Scott is better off without them.
I am an owner and have absolutely no plans to take a single horse from Scott or his team.
Everyone should stop the gossip.
PaceAdvantage
03-17-2009, 02:41 AM
I thought I removed the more flagrant "rumor masquerading as fact" posts. If I missed anything, please let me know ASAP.
Maryland Owner
03-17-2009, 02:35 PM
Sorry but I have NO sympathy for Scott. Even if his accountant stole from him , it was Scott's responsibility to oversee his affairs. Three of the largest creditors are mortgage companies - perhaps he and Jenny lived way beyond their means ? Scott has known about the IRS issue for some time and yet he continued to claim horses for his own stable (Home Team Stables) - that is the height of hypocrisy. Not paying the vets, farriers, feed folks, and the van drivers is downright despicable. I wish they could pull his license until those debts are paid. Let's see how much charachter he has - let's see if he downsizes house(s), cars, and other lifestyle niceties. Let's face it, the IRS issue was/is part of a much larger problem - Scott and Jenny live a lifestyle and run a stable they cannot afford. If he is a honorable guy, I am sure we will see a dispersal of the Home Team Stables horses.
CryingForTheHorses
03-17-2009, 05:51 PM
Geeze Id be terrified at hiring someone who wasnt a CPA,The little I do know about American taxs make me very happy to have my guy.I also cant believe that once again a millionare has a millonares bills.To think he is going bankrupt with all the "BIG" money that he made.He should have kept a closer eye on what was going on rather then let someone handle his business.Spending like there was no tomorrow makes for bills that needed to be paid yesterday..I knew a hotwalker years ago at Woodbine,The guy would always be bummin 5 bucks..Geeze he won a million dollar lotto...He left for 2 years and came back broke!!!..I didnt feel sorry for him...I dont feel sorry for this guy either...
Relwob Owner
03-17-2009, 07:31 PM
Sorry but I have NO sympathy for Scott. Even if his accountant stole from him , it was Scott's responsibility to oversee his affairs. Three of the largest creditors are mortgage companies - perhaps he and Jenny lived way beyond their means ? Scott has known about the IRS issue for some time and yet he continued to claim horses for his own stable (Home Team Stables) - that is the height of hypocrisy. Not paying the vets, farriers, feed folks, and the van drivers is downright despicable. I wish they could pull his license until those debts are paid. Let's see how much charachter he has - let's see if he downsizes house(s), cars, and other lifestyle niceties. Let's face it, the IRS issue was/is part of a much larger problem - Scott and Jenny live a lifestyle and run a stable they cannot afford. If he is a honorable guy, I am sure we will see a dispersal of the Home Team Stables horses.
Pretty harsh but I gotta say that I agree with everything you are saying......
Mineshaft
03-17-2009, 09:22 PM
Sorry but I have NO sympathy for Scott. Even if his accountant stole from him , it was Scott's responsibility to oversee his affairs. Three of the largest creditors are mortgage companies - perhaps he and Jenny lived way beyond their means ? Scott has known about the IRS issue for some time and yet he continued to claim horses for his own stable (Home Team Stables) - that is the height of hypocrisy. Not paying the vets, farriers, feed folks, and the van drivers is downright despicable. I wish they could pull his license until those debts are paid. Let's see how much charachter he has - let's see if he downsizes house(s), cars, and other lifestyle niceties. Let's face it, the IRS issue was/is part of a much larger problem - Scott and Jenny live a lifestyle and run a stable they cannot afford. If he is a honorable guy, I am sure we will see a dispersal of the Home Team Stables horses.
Agree 100%
No wonder this country is in a recession. Instead of paying debt off he buys more horses. Nice idea Lake...
startngate
03-18-2009, 12:12 AM
Sorry but I have NO sympathy for Scott. Even if his accountant stole from him , it was Scott's responsibility to oversee his affairs. Three of the largest creditors are mortgage companies - perhaps he and Jenny lived way beyond their means ? Scott has known about the IRS issue for some time and yet he continued to claim horses for his own stable (Home Team Stables) - that is the height of hypocrisy. Not paying the vets, farriers, feed folks, and the van drivers is downright despicable. I wish they could pull his license until those debts are paid. Let's see how much charachter he has - let's see if he downsizes house(s), cars, and other lifestyle niceties. Let's face it, the IRS issue was/is part of a much larger problem - Scott and Jenny live a lifestyle and run a stable they cannot afford. If he is a honorable guy, I am sure we will see a dispersal of the Home Team Stables horses.First of all, unless you have seen the entirity of Mr. Lake's personal finances and know the truth of what went on with his 'accountant' you can't really make these claims. It's possible the lifestyle he was leading was totally consistant with the money he believed he was making and had in the bank. If the accountant was hiding things, or worse yet embezzling money, it's entirely possible that until everything blew up he just didn't know.
Do you believe all of the folks that invested with Madoff were living beyond their means too? As it turns out they were but most of them, including some very smart people, had no clue their money was gone.
Should he have known? Most people would agree the answer is yes, but look at all the athletes, celebrities and the like that have been taken by their handlers. Their responsibility? You bet, and they all will (or have) paid the price. So will Scott. Sorry, but I'm skeptical at this point (based on published reports) that this is anything more than Mr. Lake putting his trust in someone and having it all blow up on him. Until facts come out that indicate it was more than that, I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
As for what he is going to have to do in the bankruptcy, that's really not going to be up to him. It's really up to the judge and his creditors. I haven't read the filing, but if it's a personal bankruptcy, I'm sure you will see substantial asset sales ordered by the judge in the case, and you will also see deals cut with the rest of his creditors. That's what a bankruptcy filing does, and this is a Chapter 11 not a 7, so it's a reorganization, not a liquidation. The goal in a re-org is to pay off all the creditors as much as is possible.
Most States also have financial responsibility rules that could be used to suspend him if the bankruptcy doesn't prevent them from doing so. Personally, I'd hate to see that, as the only chance he has to get through this is if he keeps working.
Since I don't know the timing of everything that has happened, I can't speak to the purchasing of horses. It may very well have just been a bad financial idea, or it could have been something more sinister. Are there any outside partners in Home Team Stables? If so, then there is no reason why the partnership couldn't continue to buy with the partnership assets. Also, if Home Team is an LLC, then it would not be subject to the bankruptcy itself, but Scott's equity in the LLC could be attached. All depends on how everything is set up. It's probably spelled out in the filing, but I haven't read it.
It will all come out in the hearings and they are usually made public. It will be interesting to follow the proceedings.
Sailwolf
03-18-2009, 03:12 AM
Tax Bankruptcy
http://www.irsproblem.org/content.php/filing-bankruptcy/5
This information is correct
Sailwolf CPA and tax person
Relwob Owner
03-18-2009, 10:24 PM
First of all, unless you have seen the entirity of Mr. Lake's personal finances and know the truth of what went on with his 'accountant' you can't really make these claims. It's possible the lifestyle he was leading was totally consistant with the money he believed he was making and had in the bank. If the accountant was hiding things, or worse yet embezzling money, it's entirely possible that until everything blew up he just didn't know.
Do you believe all of the folks that invested with Madoff were living beyond their means too? As it turns out they were but most of them, including some very smart people, had no clue their money was gone.
Should he have known? Most people would agree the answer is yes, but look at all the athletes, celebrities and the like that have been taken by their handlers. Their responsibility? You bet, and they all will (or have) paid the price. So will Scott. Sorry, but I'm skeptical at this point (based on published reports) that this is anything more than Mr. Lake putting his trust in someone and having it all blow up on him. Until facts come out that indicate it was more than that, I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.
As for what he is going to have to do in the bankruptcy, that's really not going to be up to him. It's really up to the judge and his creditors. I haven't read the filing, but if it's a personal bankruptcy, I'm sure you will see substantial asset sales ordered by the judge in the case, and you will also see deals cut with the rest of his creditors. That's what a bankruptcy filing does, and this is a Chapter 11 not a 7, so it's a reorganization, not a liquidation. The goal in a re-org is to pay off all the creditors as much as is possible.
Most States also have financial responsibility rules that could be used to suspend him if the bankruptcy doesn't prevent them from doing so. Personally, I'd hate to see that, as the only chance he has to get through this is if he keeps working.
Since I don't know the timing of everything that has happened, I can't speak to the purchasing of horses. It may very well have just been a bad financial idea, or it could have been something more sinister. Are there any outside partners in Home Team Stables? If so, then there is no reason why the partnership couldn't continue to buy with the partnership assets. Also, if Home Team is an LLC, then it would not be subject to the bankruptcy itself, but Scott's equity in the LLC could be attached. All depends on how everything is set up. It's probably spelled out in the filing, but I haven't read it.
It will all come out in the hearings and they are usually made public. It will be interesting to follow the proceedings.
I think that what you are saying does make some sense in parts. However, Maryland Owner's post is not that different than yours-neither one of you really knows exactly what is going on and s0 neither of you can say for sure what the deal is.....however, I disagree with your assertion that he cant make those claims.....sure he can and that is what the forum is for....just like you can respond like you did.
I agree that the idea that this was just his accountants fault is suspicious. Plus, Mr. Lake's general behavior and way of conducting business and drastically improving horses have pissed a lot of people off in the Mid Atlantic and the backlash from those happy to see his troubles is the result if that.
I have no idea what his deal is: I do know that when someone comes out with an excuse or reason for something right away, there is usually more there---he could have easily just said nothing.
My two cents...
startngate
03-19-2009, 09:39 AM
I think that what you are saying does make some sense in parts. However, Maryland Owner's post is not that different than yours-neither one of you really knows exactly what is going on and s0 neither of you can say for sure what the deal is.....however, I disagree with your assertion that he cant make those claims.....sure he can and that is what the forum is for....just like you can respond like you did.Not exactly ... I repeatedly in my post said I don't know what's going on ... Maryland Owner essentially put forth a statement of fact ....
Scott and Jenny live a lifestyle and run a stable they cannot afford.My argument was that someone can't make that claim unless they have seen the entirity of Mr. Lake's finances, and that I was willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt until facts came out proving otherwise. He might be right. I'm not close enough to the situation to know, however he didn't offer up any proof to back up the claim. Sure, everyone has the right to post pretty much whatever they want to on a message board as long as it's within the rules, and IMO differing opinions are fine. I just thought the above statement was a bit of a stretch without something backing it up.
I have no idea what his deal is: I do know that when someone comes out with an excuse or reason for something right away, there is usually more there---he could have easily just said nothing.I don't either and that's why I'm not willing to hang him in a forum, or let him off the hook for that matter. I just pointed out that some people, both here and elsewhere, might be making some incorrect assumptions about what is going on if they don't know the whole story. Unfortunately racetrack rumors abound, and stories like this take on a life of their own. This is one of the reasons why he had to say something, to calm down the speculation. I agree with you in that I doubt what we have heard reported in the media is the whole story. I do think his BloodHorse quote was out of line (the classless comment), as he should have expected the turf reporters to be calling.
Relwob Owner
03-19-2009, 07:12 PM
Not exactly ... I repeatedly in my post said I don't know what's going on ... Maryland Owner essentially put forth a statement of fact ....
My argument was that someone can't make that claim unless they have seen the entirity of Mr. Lake's finances, and that I was willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt until facts came out proving otherwise. He might be right. I'm not close enough to the situation to know, however he didn't offer up any proof to back up the claim. Sure, everyone has the right to post pretty much whatever they want to on a message board as long as it's within the rules, and IMO differing opinions are fine. I just thought the above statement was a bit of a stretch without something backing it up.
I don't either and that's why I'm not willing to hang him in a forum, or let him off the hook for that matter. I just pointed out that some people, both here and elsewhere, might be making some incorrect assumptions about what is going on if they don't know the whole story. Unfortunately racetrack rumors abound, and stories like this take on a life of their own. This is one of the reasons why he had to say something, to calm down the speculation. I agree with you in that I doubt what we have heard reported in the media is the whole story. I do think his BloodHorse quote was out of line (the classless comment), as he should have expected the turf reporters to be calling.
Good points.....whatever happens, it will be interesting to see what happens and how the bankruptcy plays out.....
Seems like it's been a rough couple of months for Mr. Lake.
onefast99
03-20-2009, 07:52 AM
Good points.....whatever happens, it will be interesting to see what happens and how the bankruptcy plays out.....
I am sure he will opt for a pennies on the dollar payout to those creditiors he listed in the bk filing. He will need to prove that he is not personally liable for any of the debt and if that is the case he reorganizes and moves forward. The major problem then is the vendors who took it on the chin in bk court will not do business with him unless they are paid by cash or certified check. This undoubtedly will slow Scott down and directly affect every owner he has in his barn.
Relwob Owner
03-20-2009, 08:12 AM
I am sure he will opt for a pennies on the dollar payout to those creditiors he listed in the bk filing. He will need to prove that he is not personally liable for any of the debt and if that is the case he reorganizes and moves forward. The major problem then is the vendors who took it on the chin in bk court will not do business with him unless they are paid by cash or certified check. This undoubtedly will slow Scott down and directly affect every owner he has in his barn.
Definitely....plus, any new vendors he tries to work with are going to be the same way.....I was at Laurel Wednesday and lots of people were talking about it and very few felt bad for him....
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