View Full Version : Big Ed taking over Phill Park
How about Auwarter two wins today leading trainer around the corner . Congratulations
dave the horseman
03-10-2009, 08:08 PM
Yeah, how about it.... Vaders gets knocked down, Auwarter steps up.... trains all Vaders horses gets money jocks, funny for a guy who had trouble winning races before vaders got it
Everyone gets their day in the sun .More power to him
Shemp Howard
03-10-2009, 09:26 PM
Must be something in that Philly water.;)
Hmmm, seems like Scott Blasi had some great success when Assmussen was on the shelf. Wonder who is pulling the strings.
Z
Relwob Owner
03-10-2009, 10:04 PM
Hmmm, seems like Scott Blasi had some great success when Assmussen was on the shelf. Wonder who is pulling the strings.
Z
Yep----Funny how big committees like the one at Churchill get together, put out all these new rules and they dont even come close to addressing the real problem-enforcement. It is just too easy for trainers who get in trouble to hand off their stock....gotta find a way to get the owner involved in the punishment somehow-one idea I liked that another poster had was to suspend the horse who blows the test as long as the trainer-----I am open to anything that makes such obvious things like the Assmussen/Blasi deal and those like it and the above deal at Philly undoable
It is just too easy for trainers who get in trouble to hand off their stock....gotta find a way to get the owner involved in the punishment somehow
Agree 100 %
Z
Nacumi
03-11-2009, 07:38 AM
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...John McCaslin. :D
lamboguy
03-11-2009, 11:02 AM
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...John McCaslin. :D
no question johnnie is behind the whole deal
another guy is now training for seeger, looks like some buy by the name of day.
you get good prices with these guys until people catch on.
eddie aurewater paid great in the begining too!!
from now on eddie's prices will be the same as jaynie vaders or mcaslin.
why shouldn't it be its the same thing, just different names.
You better believe it's John McCaslin calling the shots by telephone so "Fast" Eddie Auwarter knows what to do! And it's business as usual in more ways than one ... a McCaslin horse snapped its cannon bone yesterday morning during training hours with house jock Laureano Flores aboard. Flores was taken by ambulance to the hospital with a head injury.
I absolutely HATE these kind of deals, too. When a trainer gets suspended - especially somebody like Vaders, whose suspension is "indefinite" - the stewards should break up the barn, not just pick a name out of the hat and hand him the reins. Not that long ago, the stewards allowed a clown named Bob Helmetag to run Vaders' horses in his name. Check out Helmetag's record for the last five years. He maybe won one or two races ... then as Vaders' body double, he racked up an impressive win and in-the-money percentage that shot him right to the top of The Pha's trainer standings.
I think it's DISGRACEFUL what the stewards have allowed to let happen in this situation. Bullcrap on McCaslin and Vaders calling the shots from home! Teach them a lesson for all the medication positives!
Doc
TonyK@HSH
03-11-2009, 06:37 PM
no question johnnie is behind the whole deal
another guy is now training for seeger, looks like some buy by the name of day.
you get good prices with these guys until people catch on.
eddie aurewater paid great in the begining too!!
from now on eddie's prices will be the same as jaynie vaders or mcaslin.
why shouldn't it be its the same thing, just different names.
Cory Day has been Seegers right hand for several years. Don't expect too much change with Cory at the helm although I'm not sure what happened to Seeger. I didn't see a ruling against him. He did recently have some trouble off the track that may have led to his absence.
Another possibility is that Bob is letting Cory get enough starts as a trainer to become eligible for horsemans medical insurance. Trainers that make X number of starts per year get to share in a group policy. Meidcal insurance has been something that many trainers at mid to small level track have historically not carried due to the high costs.
Tonyk
Medical insurance has nothing to do with this. Seeger's off-track troubles are at the root of it.
bushwick
03-11-2009, 08:46 PM
Just goes to show the horse makes the trainer trainer doesnt make the horse.
Blasi takes Asmussens horses does same as Steve did the guy with Vaders horses does same. If these guys took over for some unknown they wouldnt win like they do now ,but they have the best horses in the right spot. Everyone who wins is not cheating. People are going to believe what they want and that is their perrogative but I believe alot of the negativity is uncalled for.
Relwob Owner
03-11-2009, 08:57 PM
Just goes to show the horse makes the trainer trainer doesnt make the horse.
Blasi takes Asmussens horses does same as Steve did the guy with Vaders horses does same. If these guys took over for some unknown they wouldnt win like they do now ,but they have the best horses in the right spot. Everyone who wins is not cheating. People are going to believe what they want and that is their perrogative but I believe alot of the negativity is uncalled for.
Couldnt disagree more----I dont feel as if what you are contending makes any sense. If a trainer hands off the horse to some random trainer or several different trainers, I could see it. However, when trainers hand off to the same person repeatedly(Asmussen) or a trainer that never had much previous success at all, then it can be assumed that the training is the same, so it is the trainer making the horse.....I agree that everyone who wins does not cheat . However, when a trainer gets caught, blows a test or is ruled off and the horses go to one consistent place and suddenly does well, then you dont need to be a genius to connect the dots....
Boy you have a lot of anger either you are a owner or trainer that never wins or a gambler that keeps getting beat by Ed .If so why not just give your horses to him to train or bet on his horses either way solves the problem.
Anger? I don't own any horses, and I haven't placed a bet at Philly in weeks. To me, it's very unappealing wagering fare. Why don't you check Ed's winning/in-the-money percentage before he was crowned King of the Vaders Barn and tell me what you think. Did a bolt from above suddenly give Ed magical training powers that heretofore were hidden? You actually think that a guy who toiled on the bottom fringes of the Jersey circuit for years suddenly discovered the magical elixir that makes horses win? I don't think I'm stating anything that isn't absolutely obvious.
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 08:45 AM
Anger? I don't own any horses, and I haven't placed a bet at Philly in weeks. To me, it's very unappealing wagering fare. Why don't you check Ed's winning/in-the-money percentage before he was crowned King of the Vaders Barn and tell me what you think. Did a bolt from above suddenly give Ed magical training powers that heretofore were hidden? You actually think that a guy who toiled on the bottom fringes of the Jersey circuit for years suddenly discovered the magical elixir that makes horses win? I don't think I'm stating anything that isn't absolutely obvious.
You could not be more on the ball......you dont seem angry at all to me-your posts indicate someone who gets frustrated when things are obviously out of wack or unfair and yet noone seems to care or be willing to do anything about it. I am constantly amazed at the "look the other way" types who try to ignore what is right in front of them. Sad thing is that many of these types of people are the ones who own the horses.....
lamboguy
03-12-2009, 09:25 AM
the impropriortories of the game may or may not exist.
what this game needs is a governing body with some teeth to it. whether there are bad things going on or not. it will legitify the sport and gain more interest in the sport as well as monitor it for the future.
a 2 for 96 trainer his whole life that turns into a high profile trainer smells to high hell. its the system that allows this to happen, its high time we change the system.
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 09:44 AM
the impropriortories of the game may or may not exist.
what this game needs is a governing body with some teeth to it. whether there are bad things going on or not. it will legitify the sport and gain more interest in the sport as well as monitor it for the future.
a 2 for 96 trainer his whole life that turns into a high profile trainer smells to high hell. its the system that allows this to happen, its high time we change the system.
Agreed----However, with all the layers in place and powers the way they are, it almost seems impossible. Those "safety guidelines" put out by the people at Churchill were just pathetic-they spent so much time looking at the problems and came out with most vanilla, generic guidelines I have ever seen that even a novice cheater could get around.....
onefast99
03-12-2009, 10:54 AM
You better believe it's John McCaslin calling the shots by telephone so "Fast" Eddie Auwarter knows what to do! And it's business as usual in more ways than one ... a McCaslin horse snapped its cannon bone yesterday morning during training hours with house jock Laureano Flores aboard. Flores was taken by ambulance to the hospital with a head injury.
I absolutely HATE these kind of deals, too. When a trainer gets suspended - especially somebody like Vaders, whose suspension is "indefinite" - the stewards should break up the barn, not just pick a name out of the hat and hand him the reins. Not that long ago, the stewards allowed a clown named Bob Helmetag to run Vaders' horses in his name. Check out Helmetag's record for the last five years. He maybe won one or two races ... then as Vaders' body double, he racked up an impressive win and in-the-money percentage that shot him right to the top of The Pha's trainer standings.
I think it's DISGRACEFUL what the stewards have allowed to let happen in this situation. Bullcrap on McCaslin and Vaders calling the shots from home! Teach them a lesson for all the medication positives!
Doc
Before you take pot shots at a trainer like Helmetag make sure what you are saying is correct because it makes you out to be a rumor monger at best. Bob was the go to trainer that had the horses in his name, very rarely did they ever get trained by Helmetag, they were put in his name because McCaslin didnt have a trainers license. Helmetag is one of the nicest people you will ever meet at the racetrack, he is a genuine horseman and did someone a favor. If Bob knew what these horses were getting that were winning wouldnt he use it on his own stock? Vaders got what she deserved, but in no way was Helmetag a body double. Go back to your source and ask them to tell you the entire truth!
onefast99
03-12-2009, 10:58 AM
the impropriortories of the game may or may not exist.
what this game needs is a governing body with some teeth to it. whether there are bad things going on or not. it will legitify the sport and gain more interest in the sport as well as monitor it for the future.
a 2 for 96 trainer his whole life that turns into a high profile trainer smells to high hell. its the system that allows this to happen, its high time we change the system.
While the economy is in the crapper no one will add any additional costs to their payroll especially the cost of more enforcement. You are correct we do need a monitoring board for those who have cheated or are suspected of cheating. But right now is the wrong time to put a task force or ruling committee together.
Just got home for lunch it never ceases to amaze me .Horses win races not trainers never seen a trainer win a horse race in my life.Give them same horses Ed was 2 for 90 with to John or Jayne or Pletcher and they would have been 2 for 90.Good horses make good trainers .
toetoe
03-12-2009, 01:44 PM
impropriortories
As an inventor of words myself, I bow to you, Sir. What does it m--- no never mind. I don't even need to know. :D .
Just got home for lunch it never ceases to amaze me .Horses win races not trainers never seen a trainer win a horse race in my life.Give them same horses Ed was 2 for 90 with to John or Jayne or Pletcher and they would have been 2 for 90.Good horses make good trainers .
Sure they do, that is why some guys win 2% off the claim and other guys win 40%.
john del riccio
03-12-2009, 02:21 PM
Boy you have a lot of anger either you are a owner or trainer that never wins or a gambler that keeps getting beat by Ed .If so why not just give your horses to him to train or bet on his horses either way solves the problem.
No, he has been around the block, you'll wake up soon enough....
John
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 02:30 PM
Sure they do, that is why some guys win 2% off the claim and other guys win 40%.
Precisely....the "horse makes the trainer"argument has so many holes in it, I dont know where to start....
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 02:40 PM
Just got home for lunch it never ceases to amaze me .Horses win races not trainers never seen a trainer win a horse race in my life.Give them same horses Ed was 2 for 90 with to John or Jayne or Pletcher and they would have been 2 for 90.Good horses make good trainers .
OK-explain this----Recently,Stephanie Beattie had a horse named Melodic Escapade claimed from her that was running Beyers in the 60's with the most recent one being a 62.....the new trainer had a few starts with the horse and did nothing in either-the first was a class jump, where she had a 44 Beyer but then dropped down to where she was claimed from Beattie and ran a 35---Beattie claimed her for 5K....a month later, the horse won a31K a other than race with a 70 Beyer and last Sunday won an open 5K race with a Beyer that was probably around 70......please explain this to me and back up your point.
Also, you may remember a sprinter named Shake You Down about 5(?)years ago---ran Beyers in the 90 range, Lake claimed him and won over a million running Beyers in the 110 range.
Lava Man.....well, you should know-----please explain all of these improvements and how trainers dont matter.....
Your blindness to this concept keeps you from giving trainers any credit and also keeps you from seeing shady things occurring-----both things display a definite lack of understanding of basic things that go on in the game we all love.
onefast99
03-12-2009, 03:34 PM
trainers make a huge difference, but I still wouldnt claim one off Lake or Pletcher or Breen.
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 03:47 PM
trainers make a huge difference, but I still wouldnt claim one off Lake or Pletcher or Breen.
me neither.....nowhere to go but down in most cases
Before you take pot shots at a trainer like Helmetag make sure what you are saying is correct because it makes you out to be a rumor monger at best. Bob was the go to trainer that had the horses in his name, very rarely did they ever get trained by Helmetag, they were put in his name because McCaslin didnt have a trainers license. Helmetag is one of the nicest people you will ever meet at the racetrack, he is a genuine horseman and did someone a favor. If Bob knew what these horses were getting that were winning wouldnt he use it on his own stock? Vaders got what she deserved, but in no way was Helmetag a body double. Go back to your source and ask them to tell you the entire truth!
Hey onefast99, I have seen with my own eyes the care - or lack of - that Helmetag gives his horses. To call him a "genuine horsemen" could not be further from the truth. Sure, he's a nice guy, but so are most trainers. Helmetag was indeed a body double for Vaders. If you ever get the opportunity to get on the backstretch of Philly Park, take a stroll over to Helmetag's barn and see for yourself. Ask the people who are in the barn with him what they think. I'm not making any of this up. And here's a trivia question for you - when was the last time Helmetag won a race? Any idea of his record the last few years? You can't use the time he was filling in for Vaders. I don't mean this post as an attack on Helmetag personally, just that to say he's a "genuine horseman" is laughable.
onefast99
03-12-2009, 04:20 PM
Hey onefast99, I have seen with my own eyes the care - or lack of - that Helmetag gives his horses. To call him a "genuine horsemen" could not be further from the truth. Sure, he's a nice guy, but so are most trainers. Helmetag was indeed a body double for Vaders. If you ever get the opportunity to get on the backstretch of Philly Park, take a stroll over to Helmetag's barn and see for yourself. Ask the people who are in the barn with him what they think. I'm not making any of this up. And here's a trivia question for you - when was the last time Helmetag won a race? Any idea of his record the last few years? You can't use the time he was filling in for Vaders. I don't mean this post as an attack on Helmetag personally, just that to say he's a "genuine horseman" is laughable.
Maybe he didnt have owners to pay the bills and he was forced to do this, I was at his barn in early February if what you say has any truth to it and I'm not saying it didnt happen, but he sure did change as his barn 35 was in decent shape and the horses weren't standing in any muck.
dave the horseman
03-12-2009, 04:20 PM
relwob, you are right on the money, that claim of melodic is a perfect example
awesomehandicapper
03-12-2009, 05:01 PM
The trainer you speak of regarding the melodic claim is a good friend of mine.
During her (melodic last race for $5,000) she was about to stop at the 1/8 pole exactly where she stopped for my friend when he had her but everything kicked into place and melodic took off. Melodic is a pretty sound horse. Cole doesn't take back horses very often but he took her back.
There is a trainer at CT , Kevin Joy, who was about a 3% trainer last few years. Now he is a 40% win trainer all of a sudden and he lost all his stalls and has no visable horses. How?
These people get away with this because stewards are alseep at the wheel. Management is afraid of bad publicity so the obvious is let alone. Eventually this will destroy racing. Until they find a way to cut out the snake venom , the snail venom, the blood doping it will go on forever making some rich and driving the honest guys out.
The first time a story appears in a newspaper or on a TV show about this
AND compares this cheating to the slots and suggests that since they are
cheating with the horses why wouldn't they cheat with the slots? That day the you know what will hit the fan and all the horse racing cheats will be gone next day.That is something you can bet on. :bang:
onefast99
03-12-2009, 05:10 PM
The trainer you speak of regarding the melodic claim is a good friend of mine.
During her (melodic last race for $5,000) she was about to stop at the 1/8 pole exactly where she stopped for my friend when he had her but everything kicked into place and melodic took off. Melodic is a pretty sound horse. Cole doesn't take back horses very often but he took her back.
There is a trainer at CT , Kevin Joy, who was about a 3% trainer last few years. Now he is a 40% win trainer all of a sudden and he lost all his stalls and has no visable horses. How?
These people get away with this because stewards are alseep at the wheel. Management is afraid of bad publicity so the obvious is let alone. Eventually this will destroy racing. Until they find a way to cut out the snake venom , the snail venom, the blood doping it will go on forever making some rich and driving the honest guys out.
The first time a story appears in a newspaper or on a TV show about this
AND compares this cheating to the slots and suggests that since they are
cheating with the horses why wouldn't they cheat with the slots? That day the you know what will hit the fan and all the horse racing cheats will be gone next day.That is something you can bet on. :bang:
Maybe her stopping at the 1/8th pole was attributed to flipping her palate the jock may have reached up under her belly and gave her a good whack that usually gets them to blow out air and flips the palate back.
awesomehandicapper
03-12-2009, 05:19 PM
You are probably right. She flipped her palate. Why didn't I think of that. :lol:
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 05:24 PM
Maybe her stopping at the 1/8th pole was attributed to flipping her palate the jock may have reached up under her belly and gave her a good whack that usually gets them to blow out air and flips the palate back.
Yeah, thats it.....-a shame that the trainer who had her before didnt have the insight to instruct the jock to do that------good lord, take your blinders off. Here is the horse's paper-the before and after with Beattie speaks for itself. BTW-Beattie is at almost 50 percent for the meet-must be good hay
Pletcher 250 horses ,one trainer he trains all these horses knows their individual problems? Lake has to have almost same amount horses in fla maryland pen new york he is training these horses their lucky if they see them at all.Give me a break,tell me about the ones these smart guys claim that never run again there are plenty of them but do not here you tell me about them. There are pleny of them ,these guys grind up owners money like nobodys business. Pletcher had a horse run gulf the other day 500,000 2 year old ran three times fouth time was four 20,000 mdn .Thats just one in many many ground up millons of dollars down the drain.But Pletcher keeps getting the horses it's a numbers game. Pletcher Lake give me a break I look at the whole picture not one home run here and there.No one person trains over 40 horses and really knows whats going on much less 100 or 200 in 4 differant places.
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 05:34 PM
Pletcher 250 horses ,one trainer he trains all these horses knows their individual problems? Lake has to have almost same amount horses in fla maryland pen new york he is training these horses their lucky if they see them at all.Give me a break,tell me about the ones these smart guys claim that never run again there are plenty of them but do not here you tell me about them. There are pleny of them ,these guys grind up owners money like nobodys business. Pletcher had a horse run gulf the other day 500,000 2 year old ran three times fouth time was four 20,000 mdn .Thats just one in many many ground up millons of dollars down the drain.But Pletcher keeps getting the horses it's a numbers game. Pletcher Lake give me a break I look at the whole picture not one home run here and there.No one person trains over 40 horses and really knows whats going on much less 100 or 200 in 4 differant places.
timp---I think after reading some of the posts back and forth, I think some posters may be talking about apples and oranges-at the bigger tracks, I can see some of your points about the quality of the horses and who gets them having a bigger impact. However, you may not be as aware of the situation at some of the smaller tracks, like Charlestown and Philly. It is mind-boggling the way things are allowed to happen and it is right in front of everyone's faces.
If a trainer was hitting at 49 percent at the big tracks, you can bet that someone in management would take notice. After your last post, i started agreeing with you about the big outfits and realizing we might be in two different worlds----trust me, you dont want to be in the Charlestown world, it will drive you nuts:)
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 05:43 PM
The trainer you speak of regarding the melodic claim is a good friend of mine.
During her (melodic last race for $5,000) she was about to stop at the 1/8 pole exactly where she stopped for my friend when he had her but everything kicked into place and melodic took off. Melodic is a pretty sound horse. Cole doesn't take back horses very often but he took her back.
There is a trainer at CT , Kevin Joy, who was about a 3% trainer last few years. Now he is a 40% win trainer all of a sudden and he lost all his stalls and has no visable horses. How?
These people get away with this because stewards are alseep at the wheel. Management is afraid of bad publicity so the obvious is let alone. Eventually this will destroy racing. Until they find a way to cut out the snake venom , the snail venom, the blood doping it will go on forever making some rich and driving the honest guys out.
The first time a story appears in a newspaper or on a TV show about this
AND compares this cheating to the slots and suggests that since they are
cheating with the horses why wouldn't they cheat with the slots? That day the you know what will hit the fan and all the horse racing cheats will be gone next day.That is something you can bet on. :bang:
I spend a lot of time thinking of ways anyone could do something up there and the idea of the slots tie in is intriguing--it would require someone up there actually working and the odds of that are slim......
JWBurnie
03-12-2009, 06:55 PM
The only voice I feel I have as an owner when entered to run against the above named trainers is to scratch (which I have never done). Problem, if there are too few entries, you get 10 days for the scratch. Do you think owners/trainers would collectively all scratch their horses if they were running against one of the trainers above? CT would hear that loud and clear. A couple one horse races and they would have to listen.
The scratches at the gate by the CT state vet has gone to a new level. Should be interesting, he recently scr. a Runco and R. Brown horse at the gate in the same race. He won't be there long if he makes it a habit of scr. their entries.
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 07:10 PM
The only voice I feel I have as an owner when entered to run against the above named trainers is to scratch (which I have never done). Problem, if there are too few entries, you get 10 days for the scratch. Do you think owners/trainers would collectively all scratch their horses if they were running against one of the trainers above? CT would hear that loud and clear. A couple one horse races and they would have to listen.
The scratches at the gate by the CT state vet has gone to a new level. Should be interesting, he recently scr. a Runco and R. Brown horse at the gate in the same race. He won't be there long if he makes it a habit of scr. their entries.
Good idea....I think something like that is the only way to get their attention----the Vet scratches have been eye openers and I think, a good thing.
It is amazing how short sighted the management is at tracks like this----they are afraid that cathcing anyone would make them work and get bad publicity-in the long run, they would benefit because more people would own---I constantly get questioned by my friends why I own at such a poorly managed, poorly monitored track.
awesomehandicapper
03-12-2009, 07:27 PM
The State Vet is a whole other ballgame. Most horses are scratched and work off list in 7 days. how bad are they? just 7 days later and they are fine.
Jockey wants to scratch a horse and he says no and they delay racing while they change rider .he wants to scratch a horse and Jock says horse is fine and he scratches horse. They delay racing. This is a planned scenario by the powers to be. The people in power know he is not playing with a full deck.
They know about the cheating trainers. They also know it will destroy racing and that would not be so bad to these people who would rather see a golf course where the track is. But let Brian Gumble come down and do a story and associate the race cheating with the slot machines and they will change things immediately. First the stewards would be the fall guys and thrown out and replaced. Horse players can be screwed with . They love punishment.
BUT screw around with the slots and those little old ladies will go nuts. Heaven forbid if they ever thought that those machines were fixed. Hell hath no fury. So until Brian decides to take a trip to CT and have a great story it will continue. :bang:
Relwob Owner
03-12-2009, 08:45 PM
The State Vet is a whole other ballgame. Most horses are scratched and work off list in 7 days. how bad are they? just 7 days later and they are fine.
Jockey wants to scratch a horse and he says no and they delay racing while they change rider .he wants to scratch a horse and Jock says horse is fine and he scratches horse. They delay racing. This is a planned scenario by the powers to be. The people in power know he is not playing with a full deck.
They know about the cheating trainers. They also know it will destroy racing and that would not be so bad to these people who would rather see a golf course where the track is. But let Brian Gumble come down and do a story and associate the race cheating with the slot machines and they will change things immediately. First the stewards would be the fall guys and thrown out and replaced. Horse players can be screwed with . They love punishment.
BUT screw around with the slots and those little old ladies will go nuts. Heaven forbid if they ever thought that those machines were fixed. Hell hath no fury. So until Brian decides to take a trip to CT and have a great story it will continue. :bang:
Well, the good thing is that the slot people need the racing in order to keep things going so I dont see any golf courses coming....I believe there was a pretty strong agreement that racing has to exist there for slots to---the problem is that the slots people could care less about what goes on on the horse racing side of things. So, they have no interest in any issues and the horse people dont want to get off their butts and do anything. Plus, the people in charge are so used to their own power, they will never change anything. What do you expect from a place that has active trainers(Runco and Grams, I believe) on the committee that writes the races????
lamboguy
03-12-2009, 11:11 PM
make believe north american horse racing runs the same way as japan. get me the comission, i will get the horse business 3 times the handle in 2 years, and ten times the handle in 5 years.
people bet big on the big racing day's like breeder's cups, triple crown's and major stakes programs at any track because they think those races are completely on the level, and highly competitive.
do the same thing for claiming races and they will line up from here to shang-hai to get into these racetracks, or play them at home on their internet connections.
what does it take to get the message.
we have guys that own horses on this board that think they are getting screwed. how many others out there think the same way as these guys?
probably alot more potential owners and players out there,''
why give somebody the shot to think they are getting cheated. the casino's spend millions to insure the security of their operations. with out it you will have no one infront of those slot machines except for thugs.
berube in tampa runs the joint like the gestapo, his handle has qudrupled. he don't let people take advantage of late bells or computerised batch betting before the bell. try doing bad things in his tampa bay track, he will throw you out of the joint. he threw out 5 jockeys because he thought they were trying to bag a few races. they are still barred, and the handle went up more. people like that because they think they are betting into a legitamate operation. he doesn't hand out stalls to questionable trainers either. people like that and they support his handle. berube works hard too, he walks all around the joint and knows all the trainers and riders personally. some guys don't like him, like the cheats. he figured out he's not in a personality business, he's in the gambling business, and no one is going to take down his hard work.
the jocks @ tampa are all whipping and driving every single race. if there are any form reversal's or favorites that don't try, everyone gets called in, and if you get called in you better have a good reason why the horse changed from one race to the next. he will get you everytime if you are trying to cheat him. he takes things personally.
bottom line, if tampa can do it, anyone can.
proximity
03-13-2009, 12:01 AM
OK-explain this----Recently,Stephanie Beattie had a horse named Melodic Escapade claimed from her that was running Beyers in the 60's with the most recent one being a 62.....the new trainer had a few starts with the horse and did nothing in either-the first was a class jump, where she had a 44 Beyer but then dropped down to where she was claimed from Beattie and ran a 35---Beattie claimed her for 5K....a month later, the horse won a31K a other than race with a 70 Beyer and last Sunday won an open 5K race with a Beyer that was probably around 70......please explain this to me and back up your point.
.
the two lowest beyers in the horse's pps just happened to be when the other trainer was training it!! only like 89-1 odds against this happening. :rolleyes:
(and of course when the other owner was owning it too.....)
Relwob Owner
03-13-2009, 09:06 AM
the two lowest beyers in the horse's pps just happened to be when the other trainer was training it!! only like 89-1 odds against this happening. :rolleyes:
(and of course when the other owner was owning it too.....)
Yeah, it is "strange" how that owner gets the best out of every single horse....must be that fact that he spots all of his horses well, as people who cant see what is right in front of them claim is the case.
It is amazing when you go up to Charlestown, every single person knows exactly what is going on and noone in management will do anything about it. What is equally sad is that the trainers who would never do anything to blow a test get screwed just because they are honest.
onefast99
03-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Yeah, thats it.....-a shame that the trainer who had her before didnt have the insight to instruct the jock to do that------good lord, take your blinders off. Here is the horse's paper-the before and after with Beattie speaks for itself. BTW-Beattie is at almost 50 percent for the meet-must be good hay
Just making an assumption, I have seen this a lot lately.
onefast99
03-13-2009, 11:31 AM
Yeah, it is "strange" how that owner gets the best out of every single horse....must be that fact that he spots all of his horses well, as people who cant see what is right in front of them claim is the case.
It is amazing when you go up to Charlestown, every single person knows exactly what is going on and noone in management will do anything about it. What is equally sad is that the trainers who would never do anything to blow a test get screwed just because they are honest.
You give the owner too much credit, ease up on the owner stuff. It is a tough game many owners dont even know their horses are running until the day of the race! You bring up some interesting points but bashing the trainers and owners is a pure waste of time.
onefast99
03-13-2009, 11:35 AM
You are probably right. She flipped her palate. Why didn't I think of that. :lol:
I guess you never heard of that before. It happens a lot, horses are very nervous animals and the palate can easily be flipped. Ask a vet when they scope a horse after a race what one of the most common reasons why a horse loses its action,its airway obstruction.
onefast99
03-13-2009, 11:37 AM
Yeah, thats it.....-a shame that the trainer who had her before didnt have the insight to instruct the jock to do that------good lord, take your blinders off. Here is the horse's paper-the before and after with Beattie speaks for itself. BTW-Beattie is at almost 50 percent for the meet-must be good hay
Whatever she is using, if it is illegal, they havent found it yet. When they do I will post how brilliant you were for pointing this out. Yes we do have cheats in this business and they are innocent until proven guilty.
onefast99
03-13-2009, 11:40 AM
Pletcher 250 horses ,one trainer he trains all these horses knows their individual problems? Lake has to have almost same amount horses in fla maryland pen new york he is training these horses their lucky if they see them at all.Give me a break,tell me about the ones these smart guys claim that never run again there are plenty of them but do not here you tell me about them. There are pleny of them ,these guys grind up owners money like nobodys business. Pletcher had a horse run gulf the other day 500,000 2 year old ran three times fouth time was four 20,000 mdn .Thats just one in many many ground up millons of dollars down the drain.But Pletcher keeps getting the horses it's a numbers game. Pletcher Lake give me a break I look at the whole picture not one home run here and there.No one person trains over 40 horses and really knows whats going on much less 100 or 200 in 4 differant places.
Thats why you dont claim from him. The cost of a horse has nothing to do with his ability to run,The Green Monkey proved that.
JWBurnie
03-13-2009, 11:44 AM
Whatever she is using, if it is illegal, they havent found it yet. When they do I will post how brilliant you were for pointing this out. Yes we do have cheats in this business and they are innocent until proven guilty.
Yeah, as innocent as A-rod was 2 months ago. Be serious. If they don't know what they're testing for, how the hell are they going to find it?
onefast99
03-13-2009, 11:51 AM
Yeah, as innocent as A-rod was 2 months ago. Be serious. If they don't know what they're testing for, how the hell are they going to find it?
Agree 100%, but still no ones been found guilty as of yet.
JWBurnie
03-13-2009, 12:03 PM
I would like to see spit barn test results made public. There is no doubt in my mind that you would see %'s / No.'s that would be out of line b/w the above named trainer's hores, and those that play by the rules. No doubt in my mind. Do you think results are being compared? Hell no, they're looking for specific drugs and levels in each individual sample. If it's outside the box..."we don't see nothing but then again we didn't look".
supercap
03-13-2009, 01:14 PM
Pletcher 250 horses ,one trainer he trains all these horses knows their individual problems? Lake has to have almost same amount horses in fla maryland pen new york he is training these horses their lucky if they see them at all.Give me a break,tell me about the ones these smart guys claim that never run again there are plenty of them but do not here you tell me about them. There are pleny of them ,these guys grind up owners money like nobodys business. Pletcher had a horse run gulf the other day 500,000 2 year old ran three times fouth time was four 20,000 mdn .Thats just one in many many ground up millons of dollars down the drain.But Pletcher keeps getting the horses it's a numbers game. Pletcher Lake give me a break I look at the whole picture not one home run here and there.No one person trains over 40 horses and really knows whats going on much less 100 or 200 in 4 differant places.
If you read about Pletcher makes you think he knows all about every horse. They gush over how he can handle all these horses and know all their problems. Give me a break his help are the real grunts . If you compare his succes rate versus what he spent on horses in the sales ring the real truth would be told.
awesomehandicapper
03-13-2009, 01:29 PM
First of all there is no test for snake venom. no test for snail venom.no test for blood doping. Not accusing anyone of this but look into these drugs and especially the blood doping. this is an excellent way to elevate the red blood cells.Red cells produce oxygen . Gives the horse and oxygen tank on his back so when all the other horses are getting tired, the super horse opens the value on the tank, literally. They also have the chamber which 90% of trainers do not have access to. It costs $600 a treatment in the CT area and you need at least three treatments for it to be effective. How many owners can pre race a horse for $1800 , not including transportation to the chamber.
So lets review: Firstly these peole are very good horsepeople. So they claim a horse. give it 30 days. Put in chamber four or five times. Five days before a race they blood dope. elevate red cells to the sky. Inject a little snail venom into the leg bothering the horse. Stick on the threadmill. A little swim around the pool. Takes money , money and more money but it gets the job done.
While the rest of the trainers are doing up the horse in uptight.
That is how the game is played now. Great for the betters. just stay with the super trainers. You will collect 50% of the time. great odds.
It is still the greatest game around even with the cheaters.
supercap
03-13-2009, 01:43 PM
First of all there is no test for snake venom. no test for snail venom.no test for blood doping. Not accusing anyone of this but look into these drugs and especially the blood doping. this is an excellent way to elevate the red blood cells.Red cells produce oxygen . Gives the horse and oxygen tank on his back so when all the other horses are getting tired, the super horse opens the value on the tank, literally. They also have the chamber which 90% of trainers do not have access to. It costs $600 a treatment in the CT area and you need at least three treatments for it to be effective. How many owners can pre race a horse for $1800 , not including transportation to the chamber.
So lets review: Firstly these peole are very good horsepeople. So they claim a horse. give it 30 days. Put in chamber four or five times. Five days before a race they blood dope. elevate red cells to the sky. Inject a little snail venom into the leg bothering the horse. Stick on the threadmill. A little swim around the pool. Takes money , money and more money but it gets the job done.
While the rest of the trainers are doing up the horse in uptight.
That is how the game is played now. Great for the betters. just stay with the super trainers. You will collect 50% of the time. great odds.
It is still the greatest game around even with the cheaters.
What is your opinion of pinfiring a horse? It is an archaic method of almost branding a horses shins to make them swell and heal. Trainers talk about it like they are giving aspirin to horses it is actually very painful and all we think about are drugs! Why is this legal ?
JWBurnie
03-13-2009, 01:52 PM
What is your opinion of pinfiring a horse? It is an archaic method of almost branding a horses shins to make them swell and heal. Trainers talk about it like they are giving aspirin to horses it is actually very painful and all we think about are drugs! Why is this legal ?
It's proven to work but it's down right torture. You're better off remodeling the shins with a series of 1/8 works, rather then to put your horse through pinfiring. Ever seen pictures? It should be required that any owner/trainer that wants their horse pinfired should have to assist in doing so. And witness what the horse goes through. Awful. From what I hear there are few vets that still perform the procedure, or have the equipment.
supercap
03-13-2009, 02:06 PM
It's proven to work but it's down right torture. You're better off remodeling the shins with a series of 1/8 works, rather then to put your horse through pinfiring. Ever seen pictures? It should be required that any owner/trainer that wants their horse pinfired should have to assist in doing so. And witness what the horse goes through. Awful. From what I hear there are few vets that still perform the procedure, or have the equipment.
I was watching an interview with Zito last spring and he was saying so an so bucked shins so we had him pinfired and turned out! I agree maybe pinfire the shins of the trainer to let them feel how good it is!
Its true if you see it with your own eyes not what the nitwits in the office hearsay.Iknow from directly watching with my own eyes.No one stole feed to feed his horses.
Hey Tim P, you're not in his barn 24-7, are you?
onefast99
03-13-2009, 04:11 PM
Thank you! :)
You should stick a cover over your keyboard, no need for your attacks on Bob.:liar:
I don't have a vendetta against Bob ... I like him. I just think he doesn't take good care of his horses. Maybe that's the racetrack's fault for not checking more carefully. As long as the racing office fills races, they often turn a blind eye to what goes on in the barns.
onefast99
03-13-2009, 04:30 PM
I don't have a vendetta against Bob ... I like him. I just think he doesn't take good care of his horses. Maybe that's the racetrack's fault for not checking more carefully. As long as the racing office fills races, they often turn a blind eye to what goes on in the barns.
I still dont get the attacks if you like the guy. I dont understand what the racing office has to do with how people keep their barns!
Are you kidding? The racing office/management should absolutely be involved in how trainers keep their barns and care for their horses.
onefast99
03-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Are you kidding? The racing office/management should absolutely be involved in how trainers keep their barns and care for their horses.
Lets put this topic to a new thread, okay, it will get lost here. I do agree the racing office has to be involved in some fashion, but to what extent?
proximity
03-13-2009, 05:08 PM
You give the owner too much credit, ease up on the owner stuff. It is a tough game many owners dont even know their horses are running until the day of the race! You bring up some interesting points but bashing the trainers and owners is a pure waste of time.
no, you are not giving the owner he is talking about enough "credit". not nearly enough.
and lol at this guy not knowing his horses are running until the day of the race!!
i can just hear kevin joy calling him up: "hey mr c, it's me kevin!! we got one going in the 5th tonight!! i think he's got a "shot"!!":rolleyes:
Relwob Owner
03-13-2009, 06:02 PM
no, you are not giving the owner he is talking about enough "credit". not nearly enough.
and lol at this guy not knowing his horses are running until the day of the race!!
i can just hear kevin joy calling him up: "hey mr c, it's me kevin!! we got one going in the 5th tonight!! i think he's got a "shot"!!":rolleyes:
Yeah, I am pretty sure good ole Mr. C knows when he his horseys are running----as far as owners go, he attracts all the heat he gets with his behavior at the track and his stats that definitely make it appear something is up---I would imagine he probably likes the attention and the fact that he knows he is getting over on everyone----but, as Scott Lake proved today, what goes around tends to come around
Been working most of day come home to see you still are spreading your gossip. I believe you are on the backside just haven't figured out who you are,and I know your not going to come out under your rock.But I will find out, got a couple ideas, heard your comments made the backside some people are not happy.You my friend are saying things that are not true causing trouble.
I'm shaking in my boots, Timp! :jump:
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