Quality Road

[CincyHorseplayer]

Since Quality Road has fastest 3yo race of the young season I thought this article was pretty interesting from the Bloodhorse;

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/49498/continuing-down-a-quality-road?id=49498&source=rss

This crop is far more talented thus far than last year's version.

[draynay]

Whoa... wait a minute. I see no Big Brown yet do you? A big Beyer at a mile or a mile and a sixteenth does not excite me that much. Big Browns Florida Derby will be the bench mark for this years crop. I have yet to see any horse this year at two turns post decent fractions except Pampelmousse.

And for the record Smooth Air has now won stakes races at 1 1/8, 1 mile, 7 furlongs and on turf. Let me know when one of the horses from this years crop has done the same. I will wait....

[Tread]

Is this the same Draynay tha promised not to handicap another race if Fresian Fire won the Louisiana Derby?

[DrugS]

Last years 3yo crop was monumentally bad.

[1st time lasix]

Last year's crop was below average in my opinion...thus far this crop seems to be above average.....should be an interesting triple crown campaign if the connections run the races. So many have ducked the Preakness if they don't win the derby.

[draynay]

And yes I will never handicap another race if FF wins the KENTUCKY DERBY.

[draynay]

Last years crop couldn't be too bad considering it produced the finest in 20 years. We will see how long it takes to see another undefeated Derby and Preakness winner. Good luck with that.

[miesque]

Big Brown is the finest horse in 20 years???

I don't think I can fully respond to that without my head exploding.

[eastie]

Big Brown was a turf horse who was so good he could even win the derby and Preakness on his second best surface. He was awesome most times he ran.

[Tread]

Last years crop couldn't be too bad considering it produced the finest in 20 years. We will see how long it takes to see another undefeated Derby and Preakness winner. Good luck with that.

The fact that he WAS undefeated thru the Preakness only further proves the point that the level of other competition was extremely weak. He was not undefeated because he was so much better than any horse the last 20 years, he did it because no one else was very good all spring.

Don't mind Draynay folks, I've read his comments on various Bloodhorse links and he is an extremely misinformed troll who throws ridiculous statements out to get a rise out of people and suck them into a pointless discussion (not unlike many of the posts in the Open Topics forum on this site).

[draynay]

Look... I have my opinion and you are welcome to yours but I will not sit by and let people talk bad about the class of 3 year old horses last year or about Big Brown without saying something.

If you check the stakes races last week most of them were won by the so called weak group 2008. Smooth Air, Sok Sok, Macho Again, etc... showed up and won.

If you want to knock a class knock 2005. But knocking a class the gave us the amazing Big Brown is just silly.

[Bruddah]

Last years 3yo crop was monumentally bad.

If you had made that statement prior to last years Ky Derby, many on this board would have called you "nuts" and asked you to prove your personal assumption. I know, I was challenged and proved my crazy notions prior to the race. Seems many have come to the same conclusion. Where are all the nay sayers now?

This years crop seems to be better, but let's hold off until a week before the Derby, to make a qualitative assesment, of this years crop. :ThmbUp:

[Bruddah]

Last years crop couldn't be too bad considering it produced the finest in 20 years. We will see how long it takes to see another undefeated Derby and Preakness winner. Good luck with that.

You sir are either mis informed or delusional.

Big Brown was far from being the best in the last 20 years. He is what he is, a very fine racehorse. Whose 3yo year of racing was against the weakest crop of 3yo's since 1992.

I am 62+ years and 75+lbs over weight. If I were to race against a group of kindergarten children, I would look like the next coming of Secretariat. The same scenario applies to Big Brown and the 3yo crop he raced against.

Big Brown will now be graded on his ability as a stud, my prediction, a "good grass sire" but not much else. I know the slings and arrows will be coming for this prognostication. :D

[Relwob Owner]

Big Brown is the finest horse in 20 years???

I don't think I can fully respond to that without my head exploding.


No kidding...Big Brown was a very good horse but the mark of a great horse is producing and staying on the track and continuing to win....if you want to keep comparisons to strictly horses that won 2 of 3, then please note Silver Charm and you will realize that your statement is incredibly off base... Silver Charm won the 1998 Dubai World Cup, The Clark, The San Pasqual, The Goodwood, etc..that poster is severely overrating him in my opinion but to each is own.

[Sundown]

Isn't Big Brown the horse that finished 9th in the Belmont? And "finish" is generous. Becoming the first Triple Crown hopeful to finish in last place at Belmont.

Sorry Tread, I took the bait.:bang:

[Relwob Owner]

You sir are either mis informed or delusional.

Big Brown was far from being the best in the last 20 years. He is what he is, a very fine racehorse. Whose 3yo year of racing was against the weakest crop of 3yo's since 1992.

I am 62+ years and 75+lbs over weight. If I were to race against a group of kindergarten children, I would look like the next coming of Secretariat. The same scenario applies to Big Brown and the 3yo crop he raced against.

Big Brown will now be graded on his ability as a stud, my prediction, a "good grass sire" but not much else. I know the slings and arrows will be coming for this prognostication. :D


No slings and arrows here....the younger kid from three Chimneys severely overpaid for BB while trying to make a big splash and I am predicting a flop at stud

[draynay]

No matter how wrong you are....

Big Brown ran the best Derby in history. Winning out of the 20 post ? going 4 wide all the way around? Winning undefeated ? Winning the Derby and Haskell? Beating older stakes winners on grass first time touching it as a 3 year old? Undefeated on Turf and undefeated against older.

In my opinion he is the best in 20 years. You may have your favorite but I have mine. Funny how you think last years crop was so weak ... I guess you didn't see that same crop winning all the stakes races last week did you? You may call Tale of Ekati, Georgie Boy, Smooth Air, Macho Again, Colonel John, and Big Brown a weak group but I think its just plain silly.

[CincyHorseplayer]

No matter how wrong you are....

Big Brown ran the best Derby in history. Winning out of the 20 post ? going 4 wide all the way around? Winning undefeated ? Winning the Derby and Haskell? Beating older stakes winners on grass first time touching it as a 3 year old? Undefeated on Turf and undefeated against older.

In my opinion he is the best in 20 years. You may have your favorite but I have mine. Funny how you think last years crop was so weak ... I guess you didn't see that same crop winning all the stakes races last week did you? You may call Tale of Ekati, Georgie Boy, Smooth Air, Macho Again, Colonel John, and Big Brown a weak group but I think its just plain silly.

The best Derby in history???Pass the bong essai you got smoke coming out of your ears.With over 1/4 mile run to the 1st turn,breaking from the 20 post isn't all out disaster and Secretariat probably has the fastest Derby(??),but numerous other horses within the last 14 years have gotten far closer to a Triple Crown and vs better competition than Big Brown.I thought the field was so weak I took the filly up and down BB in the exacta and got paid handsomely.Why???because the rest of the field WAS weak!!

Were talking 3yo's here,not 4yo.When the horses you mention were 3yo at this time of the year they had won nothing or won slow.Big Brown ran a 106 BSF in a NIX allowance race.That has been eclipsed at the route already and it's mid March before some of the biggest Derby Preps.Tale Of Ekati had run an 84 in the LA Derby,Georgie Boy wasn't in the Derby,Smooth air ran an 86 in the Sam Davis,Macho Again never made the Derby,and Col John had won the Sham with an 86.2 horses have run 113's in routes and a handful have already surpassed the 100 mark.This is already proving a classier crop and the best is yet to come.

[Relwob Owner]

No matter how wrong you are....

Big Brown ran the best Derby in history. Winning out of the 20 post ? going 4 wide all the way around? Winning undefeated ? Winning the Derby and Haskell? Beating older stakes winners on grass first time touching it as a 3 year old? Undefeated on Turf and undefeated against older.

In my opinion he is the best in 20 years. You may have your favorite but I have mine. Funny how you think last years crop was so weak ... I guess you didn't see that same crop winning all the stakes races last week did you? You may call Tale of Ekati, Georgie Boy, Smooth Air, Macho Again, Colonel John, and Big Brown a weak group but I think its just plain silly.


Please refer again to my Silver Charm post....I am not sure if you are overstating things just to get a rise out of people but I believe that the words "Big Brown ran the best Derby in history" are the most ridiculous words I have ever read on this forum....the next most ridiculous are "going 4 wide all the way around"....most Derby winners have tough trips so that assertion is absurd...lastly, the Handicap division is the worst it has been in ages, so of course the 4 year olds that you are referring to are doing well---these days, horses (just like Big Brown) dont run as much past their three year old years because of the high breeding dollars-so, when you compare Big Brown and horses of his generation with those 10 years ago, it is hard to make any assertions because the overall talent pool is so watered down....keep passing that bong man....

[draynay]

Yes he is the one who got stepped on coming out of the gate by a maiden winner bending his shoe and causing him to miss a chance at the Triple Crown. But he went on to go undefeated and won the Haskell which few in the last 30 years can say. How many Derby winners have gone on to win the Haskell? Since the great Alysheba couldn't do it trainers are reluctant to even try. Big Browns talent will become more impressive as years go on and no horse can out of the 12 post at Gulfstream. :cool:

[draynay]

Please refer again to my Silver Charm post....I am not sure if you are overstating things just to get a rise out of people but I believe that the words "Big Brown ran the best Derby in history" are the most ridiculous words I have ever read on this forum....the next most ridiculous are "going 4 wide all the way around"....most Derby winners have tough trips so that assertion is absurd...lastly, the Handicap division is the worst it has been in ages, so of course the 4 year olds that you are referring to are doing well---these days, horses (just like Big Brown) dont run as much past their three year old years because of the high breeding dollars-so, when you compare Big Brown and horses of his generation with those 10 years ago, it is hard to make any assertions because the overall talent pool is so watered down....keep passing that bong man...

I guess you just explained why Curlin won at all last year! He beat Wanderin Boy and other listless characters. Every time he faced tough competition in his career he lost. He got beat last year in the Breeders Cup by a 3 year old that had won one race all year.

Big Brown like it or not accomplished more than most and did while running on feet that were barely held together. Quit running the champ down there is no reason for it.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Yes he is the one who got stepped on coming out of the gate by a maiden winner bending his shoe and causing him to miss a chance at the Triple Crown. But he went on to go undefeated and won the Haskell which few in the last 30 years can say. How many Derby winners have gone on to win the Haskell? Since the great Alysheba couldn't do it trainers are reluctant to even try. Big Browns talent will become more impressive as years go on and no horse can out of the 12 post at Gulfstream. :cool:


Real champions need no such rationalizations.

[Relwob Owner]

Real champions need no such rationalizations.


ditto....

[draynay]

The best Derby in history???Pass the bong essai you got smoke coming out of your ears.With over 1/4 mile run to the 1st turn,breaking from the 20 post isn't all out disaster and Secretariat probably has the fastest Derby(??),but numerous other horses within the last 14 years have gotten far closer to a Triple Crown and vs better competition than Big Brown.I thought the field was so weak I took the filly up and down BB in the exacta and got paid handsomely.Why???because the rest of the field WAS weak!!

Were talking 3yo's here,not 4yo.When the horses you mention were 3yo at this time of the year they had won nothing or won slow.Big Brown ran a 106 BSF in a NIX allowance race.That has been eclipsed at the route already and it's mid March before some of the biggest Derby Preps.Tale Of Ekati had run an 84 in the LA Derby,Georgie Boy wasn't in the Derby,Smooth air ran an 86 in the Sam Davis,Macho Again never made the Derby,and Col John had won the Sham with an 86.2 horses have run 113's in routes and a handful have already surpassed the 100 mark.This is already proving a classier crop and the best is yet to come.

According to Thoro Graph and my own eyes Big Brown ran the best Derby ever. You will never see another horse win from the 20 post and you will never see another horse win on their 4 th start. NEVER. Big Brown did what is clearly not possible and the future will prove that to be true. Its a shame it often takes time to appreciate our champions.

[Robert Fischer]

Big Brown was good horse and had some awesome races.
My two favorite are the Florida Derby overcoming the wide post bias that was supposed to eliminate him, and the Haskell where he beat a run-away speed horse that he never should have caught going against a heavy speed bias.
He lost the triple crown on a freak accident where a horse stepped on his shoe.

However of recent horses, I think Barbaro might have beat him and Bernardini was no slouch either.

The 2008 crop was weak overall. Smooth Air, Macho, Ekati, col john, pyro etc... were all gradeIII horses.

This year hasn't sorted itself out yet. Friesan Fire is the one horse that appears to be a good derby horse for sure if he remains sound.
Quality Road, Dunkirk, I Want Revenge, Desert Party could all be good derby horses or they could be duds. Have to wait and see.:ThmbUp:

[draynay]

Big Brown was good horse and had some awesome races.
My two favorite are the Florida Derby overcoming the wide post bias that was supposed to eliminate him, and the Haskell where he beat a run-away speed horse that he never should have caught going against a heavy speed bias.
He lost the triple crown on a freak accident where a horse stepped on his shoe.

However of recent horses, I think Barbaro might have beat him and Bernardini was no slouch either.

The 2008 crop was weak overall. Smooth Air, Macho, Ekati, col john, pyro etc... were all gradeIII horses.

This year hasn't sorted itself out yet. Friesan Fire is the one horse that appears to be a good derby horse for sure if he remains sound.
Quality Road, Dunkirk, I Want Revenge, Desert Party could all be good derby horses or they could be duds. Have to wait and see.:ThmbUp:

Tale of Ekati and Colonel John would like to know how many G1 races they have to win before you will stop calling them Glll horses? :rolleyes:

[Relwob Owner]

Please refer again to my Silver Charm post....I am not sure if you are overstating things just to get a rise out of people but I believe that the words "Big Brown ran the best Derby in history" are the most ridiculous words I have ever read on this forum....the next most ridiculous are "going 4 wide all the way around"....most Derby winners have tough trips so that assertion is absurd...lastly, the Handicap division is the worst it has been in ages, so of course the 4 year olds that you are referring to are doing well---these days, horses (just like Big Brown) dont run as much past their three year old years because of the high breeding dollars-so, when you compare Big Brown and horses of his generation with those 10 years ago, it is hard to make any assertions because the overall talent pool is so watered down....keep passing that bong man...

I guess you just explained why Curlin won at all last year! He beat Wanderin Boy and other listless characters. Every time he faced tough competition in his career he lost. He got beat last year in the Breeders Cup by a 3 year old that had won one race all year.

Big Brown like it or not accomplished more than most and did while running on feet that were barely held together. Quit running the champ down there is no reason for it.

Your argument is so weak that you are now having a discussion with yourself about Curlin....I will say this-at least curlin danced in every dance and never ducked anyone.....Your Haskell point is absurd....Not all Derby horses run in the Haskell because some have gone in other races(Travers, etc) and some are actually planning on saving some gas so they can run as 4 and 5 year olds....The young guy from Three Chimneys already blew his money buying the Breeding rights and wasnt thinking long term as a result....plus, they ran in the Haskell because largely because they knew it would come up easier than the Travers, which it did (and the IEAH dopes and Mr. Babe used the heat as an excuse).......Big Brown was a nice horse who couldnt keep it together physically enough to become great....your love of him is strange-he isnt a champ at all....deal with it and get over that horse man....

[Robert Fischer]

Tale of Ekati and Colonel John would like to know how many G1 races they have to win before you will stop calling them Glll horses? :rolleyes:
1 legit one ? ;)

EDIT- I'll give Ekati credit for winning a pretty good race at a Mile in the Cigar.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Tale of Ekati and Colonel John would like to know how many G1 races they have to win before you will stop calling them Glll horses? :rolleyes:

This thread isn't about Big Brown and 2008's 3yo crop.

The title is "Quality Road" and it's in a forum devoted toward the triple crown chase,not triple crown chases gone by.

Start a thread on the racing discussion part and make your case about BB if that is indeed your only intent.

[draynay]

Your argument is so weak that you are now having a discussion with yourself about Curlin....I will say this-at least curlin danced in every dance and never ducked anyone.....Your Haskell point is absurd....Not all Derby horses run in the Haskell because some have gone in other races(Travers, etc) and some are actually planning on saving some gas so they can run as 4 and 5 year olds....The young guy from Three Chimneys already blew his money buying the Breeding rights and wasnt thinking long term as a result....plus, they ran in the Haskell because largely because they knew it would come up easier than the Travers, which it did (and the IEAH dopes and Mr. Babe used the heat as an excuse).......Big Brown was a nice horse who couldnt keep it together physically enough to become great....your love of him is strange-he isnt a champ at all....deal with it and get over that horse man....

I think you need to get some facts straight. Very few have ever won the Derby and the Haskell. Many do not even try since the great Alysheba couldn't do it. The winner of the Travers was Colonel John... maybe you should look what happend the last time Colonel John met Big Brown on the same track. Fact is after the Haskell Big Brown took on older Graded Stakes winners including Proudinsky who just won another stakes race over the weekend. Big Brown stepped on turf for the first time as a 3 year old and beat 3 horses that had just won Graded Stakes several weeks earlier.

Like it or not Big Brown accomplished things you will never see again. ;)

[Relwob Owner]

I think you need to get some facts straight. Very few have ever won the Derby and the Haskell. Many do not even try since the great Alysheba couldn't do it. The winner of the Travers was Colonel John... maybe you should look what happend when the met each other on the same track. Fact is after the Haskell Big Brown took on older Graded Stakes winners including Proudinsky who just won another stakes race over the weekend. Big Brown stepped on turf for the first time as a 3 year old and beat 3 horses that had just won Graded Stakes several weeks earlier.

Like it or not Big Brown accomplished things you will never see again. ;)

You puzzle me....you say I should get my facts straight but nothing you said proved anything I said incorrect. I didnt dispute the fact that few horses have won the Derby and the Haskell. Big Brown did avoid the Travers because they knew it would come up tougher...your Derby/Haskell win obsession is weak because it is a route that not every horse takes....yes, Big Brown beat Colonel John and yes, Colonel John is still running while the horse of your dreams is on the sidelines and will never run again....

You seem obssessed with Big brown and the Haskell...how could you not be when Big Brown was beating the likes of Coal Play, Cool Coal Man, Alaazo, Nistle's Crunch, Atoned and Magical Forest????? What a bunch of worldbeaters....also kind of speaks to the fact that the Haskell aint what it used to be...

Meanwhile, Colonel John was beating Da Tara(crushed BB in Belmont and dont even start crying about the shoe), Court Vision, Macho Again and Tale of Ekati...some of those names sound familiar as they are examples you have used of the strong 3YO crop that is now so good in the handicap division

Simply put, the Haskell was terrible....he beat a terrible group of horses so your Derby/Haskell theory doesnt hold water....


your fascination with Big Brown is bizarre and nothing i will say will change the fact that you love him----get some posters, DVD's and videos of the Haskell and anything else you can get your hands on pertaining to Big Brown and it seems like you will be set for life...

Now, anyone got anything to say about Quality road????

[draynay]

You puzzle me....you say I should get my facts straight but nothing you said proved anything I said incorrect. I didnt dispute the fact that few horses have won the Derby and the Haskell. Big Brown did avoid the Travers because they knew it would come up tougher...your Derby/Haskell win obsession is weak because it is a route that not every horse takes....yes, Big Brown beat Colonel John and yes, Colonel John is still running while the horse of your dreams is on the sidelines and will never run again....

You seem obssessed with Big brown and the Haskell...how could you not be when Big Brown was beating the likes of Coal Play, Cool Coal Man, Alaazo, Nistle's Crunch, Atoned and Magical Forest????? What a bunch of worldbeaters....also kind of speaks to the fact that the Haskell aint what it used to be...

Meanwhile, Colonel John was beating Da Tara(crushed BB in Belmont and dont even start crying about the shoe), Court Vision, Macho Again and Tale of Ekati...some of those names sound familiar as they are examples you have used of the strong 3YO crop that is now so good in the handicap division

Simply put, the Haskell was terrible....he beat a terrible group of horses so your Derby/Haskell theory doesnt hold water....


your fascination with Big Brown is bizarre and nothing i will say will change the fact that you love him----get some posters, DVD's and videos of the Haskell and anything else you can get your hands on pertaining to Big Brown and it seems like you will be set for life...

Now, anyone got anything to say about Quality road????

Big Brown did not skip the Travers because it may come up tougher... it was skipped because after the Haskell Big Browns feet were BLEEDING. In order for them to have any chance to make it to the Breeders Cup they HAD to keep him on turf to protect his feet. As you know that did not work either.

Like I said before the Haskell is very hard to win after a difficult Triple Crown run. Many now skip it BECAUSE THE GREAT ALYSHEBA was unable to win the race. Big Brown came back and won showing great heart and catching a fresh runaway speed horse.

Knock the Haskell if you wish but you need to understand why it has been skipped by many over the years. If Alysheba couldn't do it many to this day will not even try. :cool:

[Watcher]

Meanwhile, Colonel John was beating Da Tara(crushed BB in Belmont and dont even start crying about the shoe), Court Vision, Macho Again and Tale of Ekati...some of those names sound familiar as they are examples you have used of the strong 3YO crop that is now so good in the handicap division
Didn't BB destroy all of those horses sans Da Tara?

[miesque]

I think at least some of us can agree on one thing, either the poster in question honestly and truly believes with unwavering faith that Big Brown is the best horse in the past twenty years, or that the sole purpose of his posts is to f*** with people for his own amusement. I have my own idea as to which one of the two it is, but either way, its evident that arguing to the contrary of his assertions is an exercise in futility.

[draynay]

I will compare Big Browns numbers to any other 3 year old over the last 20 years. Name the horse. :cool:

[tucker6]

I will compare Big Browns numbers to any other 3 year old over the last 20 years. Name the horse. :cool:
barbaro

[tucker6]

barbaro
or AP Indy

[draynay]

barbaro

Barbaro 7 races 6 wins 2,302,000.00 Earnings

AP Indy 11 races 8 wins 2,979,000.00 Earnings

Big Brown 8 races 7 wins 9,614,000.00 :eek:

Big Brown wins again !!!

[tucker6]

Barbaro 7 races 6 wins 2,302,000.00 Earnings

AP Indy 11 races 8 wins 2,979,000.00 Earnings

Big Brown 8 races 7 wins 9,614,000.00 :eek:

Big Brown wins again !!!
well, money means nothing. Secretariat won $1.3M, and even in today's money, would not approach $9.6M. Can BB hold Sec's jock strap?? We both know that answer. Methinks the mares would laugh at BB in the breeding shed if they had AP Indy as an alternative choice.

Both Barbaro and AP Indy raced much better competition than BB, with similar records. Rather than show individual records, which is deceptive, try showing the lifeline win/place/show percentage of the horses each of these horses faced in the TC.

[Relwob Owner]

Didn't BB destroy all of those horses sans Da Tara?


right, but my point was that those were referred to by him as being part of a "good crop" of 3 year olds earlier on and I was comparing the fields in the Haskell and the Travers....

[draynay]

well, money means nothing. Secretariat won $1.3M, and even in today's money, would not approach $9.6M. Can BB hold Sec's jock strap?? We both know that answer. Methinks the mares would laugh at BB in the breeding shed if they had AP Indy as an alternative choice.

Both Barbaro and AP Indy raced much better competition than BB, with similar records. Rather than show individual records, which is deceptive, try showing the lifeline win/place/show percentage of the horses each of these horses faced in the TC.

My comment was Big Brown was the best we have seen in 20 years. I am not looking to defend him all day. You can say what you want his record speaks for itself. His Florida Derby and Kentucky and Preakness performances will go down as 3 all time great performances.

But !!! ... Lets get back to Quality Road. I think he could be the beast we have all been looking for.

[Relwob Owner]

Big Brown did not skip the Travers because it may come up tougher... it was skipped because after the Haskell Big Browns feet were BLEEDING. In order for them to have any chance to make it to the Breeders Cup they HAD to keep him on turf to protect his feet. As you know that did not work either.

Like I said before the Haskell is very hard to win after a difficult Triple Crown run. Many now skip it BECAUSE THE GREAT ALYSHEBA was unable to win the race. Big Brown came back and won showing great heart and catching a fresh runaway speed horse.

Knock the Haskell if you wish but you need to understand why it has been skipped by many over the years. If Alysheba couldn't do it many to this day will not even try. :cool:

Hey genius---they were going to pick the Haskell or the Travers and they chose the Haskell....there is no way they would have run in the Travers anyways because it was three weeks later and his feet obviously couldnt handle that. So, before the two, they chose the Haskell because it would come up easier and it did, as is proved by who ran behind him....oh, by the way, the horse that finished third in the Haskell finshed 11th in the Travers....chew on that for a bit....

Like the other poster said, you are so obviously incorrect and over the top with every post and must be spewing nonsense to mess with others and that the only way to shut you down is to stop responding and I am going to take that advice......

[tucker6]

My comment was Big Brown was the best we have seen in 20 years. I am not looking to defend him all day. You can say what you want his record speaks for itself. His Florida Derby and Kentucky and Preakness performances will go down as 3 all time great performances.

But !!! ... Lets get back to Quality Road. I think he could be the beast we have all been looking for.
what's the matter draynay? Not able to defend BB in my last post?? Humor me one last time, or is the play too rough for BB, so you're taking your ball and going home.

I like QR to win the Preakness and Belmont, but I'm not sure he can handle the larger field of the KD. Time will tell.

[Relwob Owner]

what's the matter draynay? Not able to defend BB in my last post?? Humor me one last time, or is the play too rough for BB, so you're taking your ball and going home.

I like QR to win the Preakness and Belmont, but I'm not sure he can handle the larger field of the KD. Time will tell.

I think you got him......


Quality Road----I know I am gonna get hammered for this, but I dont think there is any way he gets top 6 in the Derby....I dont think he can get the distance and I think many forget that two back, he lost to allowance horses---a race like the Preakness on a speed favoring track maybe, but the other two will be tough, I believe.....

[PaceAdvantage]

If you had made that statement prior to last years Ky Derby, many on this board would have called you "nuts" and asked you to prove your personal assumption. I know, I was challenged and proved my crazy notions prior to the race. Seems many have come to the same conclusion. Where are all the nay sayers now?

This years crop seems to be better, but let's hold off until a week before the Derby, to make a qualitative assesment, of this years crop. :ThmbUp:Nobody called you nuts. Just wanted to know how you came about your decision, plus it was still early in the year. Some of us had reservations.

Still, a 3yo did win the BC Classic....:lol:

[draynay]

what's the matter draynay? Not able to defend BB in my last post?? Humor me one last time, or is the play too rough for BB, so you're taking your ball and going home.

I like QR to win the Preakness and Belmont, but I'm not sure he can handle the larger field of the KD. Time will tell.

Smooth Air has won stakes races at 7 furlongs, 1 mile. 1 1/8th and on turf. Why don't YOU list all the horses Barbaro and AP Indy faced that did that.... I'll wait.....

[Bruddah]

No matter how wrong you are....

Big Brown ran the best Derby in history. Winning out of the 20 post ? going 4 wide all the way around? Winning undefeated ? Winning the Derby and Haskell? Beating older stakes winners on grass first time touching it as a 3 year old? Undefeated on Turf and undefeated against older.

In my opinion he is the best in 20 years. You may have your favorite but I have mine. Funny how you think last years crop was so weak ... I guess you didn't see that same crop winning all the stakes races last week did you? You may call Tale of Ekati, Georgie Boy, Smooth Air, Macho Again, Colonel John, and Big Brown a weak group but I think its just plain silly.


That sorry group of 3yo's now make up a sorry group of older horses, in the Handcap division. In other words, they are running against each other, and horses that are worse than they are. Any handicapper knows this. The Handicap Division for older horses is weak, weak weak. Thank goodness the crop of 2008 will be retired or just gone this year, or no later than next year.

[plainolebill]

I agree, this is a very slow bunch of older horses. The three year olds are running faster than them and it's only March, I can't remember that happening before.

[draynay]

[/B]


That sorry group of 3yo's now make up a sorry group of older horses, in the Handcap division. In other words, they are running against each other, and horses that are worse than they are. Any handicapper knows this. The Handicap Division for older horses is weak, weak weak. Thank goodness the crop of 2008 will be retired or just gone this year, or no later than next year.

You crack me up. Last year Curlin ran against a bunch of nobodies and got Horse of the Year. Silver Charms accomplished his glory at 4 when others retired. People keep calling this a weak class but the stats say different. The class of 2005 was MUCH weaker and produced NO BIG BROWN. Cowboy Cal, Smooth Air, Game Face, Sok Sok and others have already won stakes races this year and proved that last years class is stronger than many before it. Lets see what this year produces because I see no Big Brown. :rolleyes:

[Tread]

I warned you guys

:bang:

[draynay]

I warned you guys

:bang:

Thanks for the warning Tread... I just don't agree that last year was a weak class and it makes little sense to bash Big Brown and what he accomplished is that so radical that you feel you have to "warn" people. :confused:

[Relwob Owner]

I warned you guys

:bang:


you were right on the money....

[draynay]

I agree, this is a very slow bunch of older horses. The three year olds are running faster than them and it's only March, I can't remember that happening before.

Maybe you need to watch this......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnomqXMqBmY

This is a prime example of a 3 year old in March running faster than older horses.

If you want to watch Big Browns Maiden race you can do that too. That is an example of a 2 year old running faster than older horses. :cool:

How soon we forget....

[Tread]

Thanks for the warning Tread... I just don't agree that last year was a weak class and it makes little sense to bash Big Brown and what he accomplished is that so radical that you feel you have to "warn" people. :confused:

Oh don't misunderstand, the warning was not specific to this line of discussion, it was given based on many different opinions I've read of yours over the last few weeks on different web sites on many different topics that all boil down to one thing. I'm glad you are in the pools and I'm not about to argue your mis-informed points with you (the most laughable of which was that GP and CD tracks play the same way, try that one on any trainer and see how hard they laugh).

[draynay]

Oh don't misunderstand, the warning was not specific to this line of discussion, it was given based on many different opinions I've read of yours over the last few weeks on different web sites on many different topics that all boil down to one thing. I'm glad you are in the pools and I'm not about to argue your mis-informed points with you (the most laughable of which was that GP and CD tracks play the same way, try that one on any trainer and see how hard they laugh).

I am not looking for an argument I am looking for you to discuss your angles. If you see something others don't clue us in. If you think GP and CD are not playing hard and fast let me know because so far horses that do well at Gulfstream seem to do well at Churchill since both favor speed.

I have been going to the Derby since 1969 and to Gulfstream since 1982. I am always willing to learn Tread. Place your angles on the table and lets see what you got..... ;)

[Relwob Owner]

Oh don't misunderstand, the warning was not specific to this line of discussion, it was given based on many different opinions I've read of yours over the last few weeks on different web sites on many different topics that all boil down to one thing. I'm glad you are in the pools and I'm not about to argue your mis-informed points with you (the most laughable of which was that GP and CD tracks play the same way, try that one on any trainer and see how hard they laugh).


I know it is hard but you helped me do it.....everyone needs to just ignore this guy....I am pretty new and came out pretty strong---I quickly realized that like evertything, there is a good way and a bad way to exist on this Forum----seems to me that this guy is all about the bad way as he spits out pointless and unreasonable arguments---if everyone stops replying, maybe he will stop too?

[draynay]

I know it is hard but you helped me do it.....everyone needs to just ignore this guy....I am pretty new and came out pretty strong---I quickly realized that like evertything, there is a good way and a bad way to exist on this Forum----seems to me that this guy is all about the bad way as he spits out pointless and unreasonable arguments---if everyone stops replying, maybe he will stop too?

Ignore me? Why? Is is so bad to have another opinion? What is different about horse racing than any other sport ? My best friend just called to tell me how my team in the March Madness pool is going to get stomped and that their defense is not all that. Yes my team is Memphis. We talked trash to each other for a half an hour. During football season I have to hear about West Virginia non stop and he has to listen to me rant about the Buckeyes !!!

Ignore me? For what because I may not like your picks? Or I may have a different angle than you? This is horse racing its a sport have some fun !!!

I am not mean to anyone and I don't call anyone names so what's the problem? I am here to talk horses if we all had the same opinions there would be no need to have this board. :cool:

[Cat Thief]

Everyone knows Draynay and his obsession I think. I just want to tell him he better quit handicapping because guess who will win the derby? And you said you would quit handicapping if he won it FF for the win

[draynay]

If Friesan Fire wins the Derby I will never handicap another race. That is a promise.

To be honest the only way Friesan Fire hits the board is if he jumps the fence. :D

[1st time lasix]

I have just put Draynay on "ignore" ........it is clear to me that he is dillusional. Hopefull Big Brown and his connections will represent the beginning of the end of the steroid, drug issue era in racing. To say he was the best horse in twenty years withpout tonge in cheek suggests that Mr Drayney tends to indulge frequently in the same.

[plainolebill]

Maybe you need to watch this......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnomqXMqBmY

This is a prime example of a 3 year old in March running faster than older horses.

If you want to watch Big Browns Maiden race you can do that too. That is an example of a 2 year old running faster than older horses. :cool:

How soon we forget....

Excuse me, what does Big Brown have to do with the 4yos that are running today except that he towered over this bunch of slugs? There are several 3yos that have run faster than any of the older horses this year at both sprint and route distances.

Funny you should mention Cowboy Cal, he couldn't beat any of this year's top 3yos without a headstart or a towrope.

[GaryG]

The subject of BB's ability and the quality of that 3yo crop were discussed ad nauseum last year. This inew crop is certainly worthy of discussing, but what in hell does BB have to do with it?

[Relwob Owner]

Excuse me, what does Big Brown have to do with the 4yos that are running today except that he towered over this bunch of slugs? There are several 3yos that have run faster than any of the older horses this year at both sprint and route distances.

Funny you should mention Cowboy Cal, he couldn't beat any of this year's top 3yos without a headstart or a towrope.


Just a warning....dont get sucked in with this guy....I did earlier in this thread and it was definitely not worth the time....

[draynay]

Excuse me, what does Big Brown have to do with the 4yos that are running today except that he towered over this bunch of slugs? There are several 3yos that have run faster than any of the older horses this year at both sprint and route distances.

Funny you should mention Cowboy Cal, he couldn't beat any of this year's top 3yos without a headstart or a towrope.

I was simply responding to the man that said "when was the last time you saw 3 year old horses running faster than older horses in March?"

My answer was Big Brown at the Florida Derby and a 2 year old Big Brown winning his Maiden at the Spa. :cool:

[CincyHorseplayer]

I was simply responding to the man that said "when was the last time you saw 3 year old horses running faster than older horses in March?"

My answer was Big Brown at the Florida Derby and a 2 year old Big Brown winning his Maiden at the Spa. :cool:

GaryG just told you.3yo's have run faster at sprint and route than older horses this year.

Do you have a nagging wife and live in a trailer???Because only hillbillies argue like this and to this extent on half baked points.You've been blown apart on nearly all your points and completely ignored the post I had comparing the 3yo's and their accomplishments as of 3/18/08 and 3/18/09.

[draynay]

GaryG just told you.3yo's have run faster at sprint and route than older horses this year.

Do you have a nagging wife and live in a trailer???Because only hillbillies argue like this and to this extent on half baked points.You've been blown apart on nearly all your points and completely ignored the post I had comparing the 3yo's and their accomplishments as of 3/18/08 and 3/18/09.

And 3 year old horses LAST YEAR ran faster than older so what is the point?

Cindy ... I have no problem posting accomplishments of last years 3 year old class. Why don't you tell me all the great things accomplished by the class of 2005.

If you want to continue to bash last years class of Tale of Ekati, Smooth Air, Colonel John, and Big Brown go ahead but to say it was the weakest in many years is just wrong. Check out the class from 2005. Please..... :bang:

[Robert Fischer]

If you want to continue to bash last years class of Tale of Ekati, Smooth Air, Colonel John, and Big Brown go ahead but to say it was the weakest in many years is just wrong. Check out the class from 2005. Please..... :bang:

Big Brown was top class, but Tale of Ekati, Smooth Air, Colonel John just aren't crop leading type of horses. They are all nice grade 3 types that plenty of fans like. In a weak year you could argue that they are G2 and that your expectations have to come down a little to match the division, but they are a poor example of the quality of a crop. None of those 3 should be in the exacta in any decent Kentucky Derby.

[draynay]

Big Brown was top class, but Tale of Ekati, Smooth Air, Colonel John just aren't crop leading type of horses. They are all nice grade 3 types that plenty of fans like. In a weak year you could argue that they are G2 and that your expectations have to come down a little to match the division, but they are a poor example of the quality of a crop. None of those 3 should be in the exacta in any decent Kentucky Derby.

Colonel John and Smooth Air nice Grade 3 types? Maybe you should watch the
Breeders Cup again and remember they finished 2 lengths behind the Horse of the Year. Not bad for Grade 3 types. :rolleyes:

[Robert Fischer]

Colonel John and Smooth Air nice Grade 3 types? Maybe you should watch the
Breeders Cup again and remember they finished 2 lengths behind the Horse of the Year. Not bad for Grade 3 types. :rolleyes:

Colonel and Smooth Air were total non factors in the BC. The "HOY" was 4th. The race had a bunched up finish over a synthetic course...

They aren't grade I horses. Name some gradeI horses if you want to brag up a crop.

[CincyHorseplayer]

And 3 year old horses LAST YEAR ran faster than older so what is the point?

Cindy ... I have no problem posting accomplishments of last years 3 year old class. Why don't you tell me all the great things accomplished by the class of 2005.

If you want to continue to bash last years class of Tale of Ekati, Smooth Air, Colonel John, and Big Brown go ahead but to say it was the weakest in many years is just wrong. Check out the class from 2005. Please..... :bang:

This is the triple crown trail thread.

Were talking about this year's 3yo crop,not last year's except as a reference point.

The only going on and on about it is you.We get your point.And nobody is remotely interested in the 2005 crop,nobody but yourself mentioned it.

[Robert Fischer]

curlin , hard spun , bernardini, friesan fire
could all crush smooth air, ekati or colonel john going 10 furlongs on the dirt
it wouldn't even be a contest.

dunkirk and desert party , and possibly i want revenge, or quality road might belong on that list as well... at least they actually have potential.

those "3 amigos" you mentioned have reached their potential. ;)

[Relwob Owner]

This is the triple crown trail thread.

Were talking about this year's 3yo crop,not last year's except as a reference point.

The only going on and on about it is you.We get your point.And nobody is remotely interested in the 2005 crop,nobody but yourself mentioned it.


I will say it again....by responding, you are giving this guy exactly what he wants.....I know it is tough because he is just so ignorant and off base, but responding is pointless.....

[draynay]

I will say it again....by responding, you are giving this guy exactly what he wants.....I know it is tough because he is just so ignorant and off base, but responding is pointless.....

I am off base ? Look all I am saying is there is nothing wrong with the class of 2008. It was not weak and Tale of Ekati, Smooth Air, Colonel John, and Big Brown are proof of that. How many G1 races do Tale of Ekati and Colonel John have to win before they are considered quality horses ???

[Cat Thief]

Well we will see Dray but he has the foundation and the money and the b reeding so what else do you want?? I have to tell you I did love Big Brown

[Robert Fischer]

Good work today from Quality Road. According to the write up he went 7 furlongs with a very fast last quarter.

Fl. Derby rival Dunkirk had his own big work as well.

This could be a special year for the Kentucky Derby