Ban on rebates being abolished in California

[NoCal Boy]

Good news indeed.

BTW, if Ian is no longer active with PTC, then the hell with them as well. I could not join PTC being in CA., but my prior views about wishing them success are gone with this development.

The Big 4 (TVG, Youbet, Twinspires and Xpresbet) will likely be the Big 3 minus Xpressbet if and when Magna goes BK and with the ban on rebates in CA being eliminated, I do not see PTC or any small ADW competing effectively with the big boys.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/101930.html

[Indulto]

Good news indeed.

BTW, if Ian is no longer active with PTC, then the hell with them as well. I could not join PTC being in CA., but my prior views about wishing them success are gone with this development.

The Big 4 (TVG, Youbet, Twinspires and Xpresbet) will likely be the Big 3 minus Xpressbet if and when Magna goes BK and with the ban on rebates in CA being eliminated, I do not see PTC or any small ADW competing effectively with the big boys.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/101930.htmlFrom the article:...
Earlier at the meeting, the racing board abolished a rule that banned racetracks from providing customers with rebates of bets. Despite the presence of the rule, the prohibition of rebates was never fully enforced, officials said at Thursday's meeting.

... Jack Liebau, the president of Hollywood Park and a director of the account wagering service Youbet.com, argued for the rule to be repealed.

"Rebates are here and everyone is doing it," he said. "I don't think that it makes any sense for the CHRB to take any action that would discourage people to wager on California races."

As part of the rule-changing process, the abolishment of the rule must be available for public comment for 45 days before it returns to the board for a final vote.This is nothing but sheer speculation on my part, but doesn't it sound as if some entity with inside knowledge this would happen made an offer to buy PTC the company?

[highnote]

From the article:This is nothing but sheer speculation on my part, but doesn't it sound as if some entity with inside knowledge this would happen made an offer to buy PTC the company?


The other question is, if they did know and if they did make an offer to buy PTC, is it legal for them to act on that insider knowledge?

[Indulto]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/49388/chrb-moves-to-rescind-anti-rebate-stance?id=49388&source=rss (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/49388/chrb-moves-to-rescind-anti-rebate-stance?id=49388&source=rss)
CHRB Moves to Rescind Anti-Rebate Stance
By Jack Shinar February 26… Rebates to wagering customers have become so widespread that the California Horse Racing Board is preparing to rescind its rule against the practice. Not wanting to hurt business in an extremely down economy, the board moved Feb. 26 to initiate the relaxation of its longstanding anti-rebate stance and go with the current wagering flow.

… The board took the action after it was revealed that the state's licensed advance deposit wagering companies have been using "rewards programs" to attract customers.

CHRB staff had proposed extending its prohibition on rebates specifically to ADW providers. But the board agreed with the argument of Jack Liebau, president of Hollywood Park and also a director of the ADW company Youbet.com, who spoke against it.

"Rebating is here and everyone is doing it," he said. "I don't think the California Horse Racing Board should take any action that will discourage people from betting on California races. I can't believe you'd do that."

Drew Couto, president of the Thoroughbred Owners of California, said he was informed by CHRB officials that the rebate rule has not been enforced "so we have kind of ignored it."

The owners' group has the power to cut off racing signals to off-track facilities that rebate to customers betting on California races or offer rebates to state residents.

… Craig Fravel, representing Del Mar, said that conditions have changed for racing in the past five years, when one of the main concerns was whether on-track handle would be hurt.

"It has no application," Fravel said of the current rule. "Everybody ignored it."

Moss, in making the motion to rescind the rebate rule, said he was opposed "to anything that stands in the way of business."

Commissioner David Israel said that everyone, including the tracks themselves, will offer rebates to big bettors, known as "whales."

"If you bet substantial amounts at Santa Anita today, and the wagers are being tracked, you can get rebates," Israel said. …

[NoCal Boy]

From the article:This is nothing but sheer speculation on my part, but doesn't it sound as if some entity with inside knowledge this would happen made an offer to buy PTC the company?

Why would one of the large ADWs buy PTC? Wouldn't it be far better (and cheaper) to simply take the customers away from PTC? Obviously Xpressbet is not a buyer. I guess TVG, Twinspires or Youbet could do it. I understand a group of former Youbet customers went over to PTC well over a year ago and Youbet has been making efforts to get some of the larger players back in the fold (including some of the former IRG players).

No Ian then no PTC. It will be just another ADW swallowed up by the big boys.

[Indulto]

Why would one of the large ADWs buy PTC? Wouldn't it be far better (and cheaper) to simply take the customers away from PTC? Obviously Xpressbet is not a buyer. I guess TVG, Twinspires or Youbet could do it. I understand a group of former Youbet customers went over to PTC well over a year ago and Youbet has been making efforts to get some of the larger players back in the fold (including some of the former IRG players).

No Ian then no PTC. It will be just another ADW swallowed up by the big boys.Didn't PTC have a leaner operation and a more comprehensive wagering interface to potentially compete more successfully in a rebate war? Is it possible some entity keeping PTC out of California was willing to let them in sans its existing management?

[highnote]

Didn't PTC have a leaner operation and a more comprehensive wagering interface to potentially compete more successfully in a rebate war? Is it possible some entity keeping PTC out of California was willing to let them in sans its existing management?


I guess we can only speculate.

Sure is getting interesting in horsebetting land.

Plus you have to factor in TVG being bought by a british betting exchange that has been spoken of favorably by some of the SoCal establishment.

[Indulto]

I guess we can only speculate.

Sure is getting interesting in horsebetting land.

Plus you have to factor in TVG being bought by a british betting exchange that has been spoken of favorably by some of the SoCal establishment.If it was a buyout of PTC, why not TVG/Betfair?

[highnote]

If it was a buyout of PTC, why not TVG/Betfair?


Right. Why not?

[Indulto]

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=3945951 (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=3945951)
It's about time
By Bill Finley March 2, 2009... California will likely remove a rule from its books that prohibited its tracks from sending its signal to wagering outlets that provide customers with rebates.

It seems that someone finally figured out that rebates stimulate handle, exactly the reason why they should be embraced and encouraged, not banned.

... Prominent horse owner Jerry Moss, who is also a commissioner with the California Horse Racing Board, proposed at a recent meeting of the agency that the rule be done away with. Moss's timing was perfect. With the economy battering business at racetracks everywhere, Moss argued that no one could afford to stand in the way of anyone wanting to bet on California racing or any wagering firm willing to offer the product. No one seems to be arguing with him.

... It also seems that the rule wasn't being enforced in the first place. Magna Entertainment, the owners of Santa Anita, a track the CHRB was supposedly trying to protect, is even in the rebate business. Magna owns XpressBet, which offers a 2 percent rebate to its biggest customers. That's how silly this thing had gotten.

... Good for Liebau, Moss and the others who took a stand. Horse racing needs to find ways to build its business and needs to take a harder look at things like exchange betting, proposition betting and rebates. Times have changed and they are tough. The game needs every betting dollar it can get its hands on. ....Most of what I didn't quote was Finley's regurgitation of what DT, CG, and JP of HANA have been writing for month's now.

That's all very nice, but where was this turfwriter's support prior to what took place at the CHRB meeting? Front-running has its place, but I like it better on the track.