Attention: Daily Racing Form, etc.

[Thomas Roulston]

Are the detailed specifications of each racetrack some sort of top secret information or something?

I'm specifically referring to how long it is from the finish line to the start of the first (clubhouse) turn - which you can only seem to obtain by referring to a pre-1982 edition of the American Racing Manual; and if you're looking for said info on a track that has been built or reconfigured since then, you're completely out of luck.

What I'm trying to do is compile a list of all starting positions of two-turn races at top tier or second-tier tracks in which the run from the start to the first turn is less than 330 feet (1/16th of a mile). Among those I have already found include:

1 3/8m on dirt @ Belmont - 183 feet
1m on dirt @ Mountaineer Park - 260 feet
7f on turf @ Mountaineer Park - 260 feet
1m on dirt @ Fort Erie - 260 feet
7f on turf @ Fort Erie - 260 feet
1m40y on dirt @ Fair Grounds - 270 feet

Surely the 1 1/8m start on the Inner Turf Course at Belmont has <330 feet into the first turn, and from what I can see, so would the 1 1/8m dirt start at (the new) Gulfstream, as the run from the wire to the first turn appears to be about 300 feet.

But how do I find this out?

[kenwoodallpromos]

:http://www.allhorseracing.com/racetrack.aspx:

many bettors are connections, track execs and employees, and in the industry. Maybe that is part of why so much info is totally or semi-hidden!
You can PM me if you want help looking up info sources, or ask on this thread.

[RonTiller]

Wouldn't it be nice if every track in North America followed Keeneland's lead and posted a track configuration page with the start and finish of every race distance they run.

http://www.keeneland.com/racing/lists/courses/allitemsalt.aspx

Honestly, we used google and msn satellite maps to check several dozen tracks, especially fair circuit tracks. The detail is phenomenal The scale is at the bottom of the map and you can see where the clubhouse, chutes and toteboard are, so we literally measured the distances on the computer screen and guessed where the finish line would be based on clubhouse and toteboard location. We were also surprised at the number of 4F fair tracks, and several weren't even ovals.

We even called a couple racing offices. One guy asked around while we were on hold and he found out for us.

Ron Tiller
HDW

[point given]

Either the Keeneland or Racing Hall of Fame libraries should have this information on hand. Isn't that the purpose of the library ? I know a couple of years ago when Keeneland reconfigured i emailed their librarian for this information and was rewarded. What I didnot see on their page was that the banking of the turns was changed and its not as banked as before. I noticed that the jocks took the turns a little wider and slower now than before. FYI, i think the Monmouth 1 mile and 1 m 40, start pretty close to the turn as well as the SA mile .

[arno]

At Monmouth the one mile races have a very short run to the first turn.

Boxing the 3 inside posts in an exacta has shown a profit for years at MTH.

Mile and 40 and Mile and 70 do not show a profit.

[cj]

If they run 1m 40y at Mth, that is news to me. 1m 70y yes.

[Thomas Roulston]

Wow - a thread started by me got this many responses?

Wonders never cease! :D

Thanks everybody for your help on this.

And arno: Monmouth actually has a longer run from the finish line to the first turn (440 feet) than most mile tracks (330 feet). As a result, the turns are tighter at Mth than elsewhere - 1,210 feet (on the dirt) as opposed to the more "standard" 1,320 feet; and the turns on Mth's turf course measure only 880 feet, which in part explains why 7 1/2 furlongs on turf has never been run there.

But the track that is most forthcoming of all with info of this sort is Santa Anita: Throughout much of the '90s, the DRF actually ran a chart showing how far behind the pole the starting gate is placed at the most commonly-run distances (in mile races, the gate is positioned a whopping 172 feet before the finish line, from which the horses go once around the track).

And I did e-mail NYRA about the Widener and Inner Turf Courses at Belmont, but as of yet they haven't replied.