Zast on Fan groups -- Round 2

[Indulto]

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/Zasts-TrackWords
Manning Up to the Man
By Vic Zast 02/23/2009…the sport’s new fan-based organizations seem more enamored with becoming remoras than representatives of their constituency. Two organizations – Horseplayers Association of North America (HANA) and Thoroughbred Racing Fan Association (Thorofan), in particular, have risen to some level of prominence on a false premise. In recruiting membership, their leaders promised to give horse racing’s followers a forum in which they could speak their mind and flex their muscles.

“We are not driven by a singular agenda but rather by the voice of our fans,” said Michael Amo, Thorofan’s president. Yet, every new press release that emanates from his group’s headquarters seems to be about how darling his fledgling fan club is to the racetracks, breeders and related organizations and insiders.

Two weeks ago, in a Schenectady (NY) Gazette interview, representatives of Thorofan proudly stated that their act’s been endorsed by the New York Racing Association, the National Thoroughbred Racing Association, the New York Breeders Association and Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association – the very organizations whose past and current practices they should be challenging.

“The racing community is embracing us,” said Marilyn Lane, a Thorofan spokesperson. “We’re not going to be an organization where we’re trying to tell them what to do,” she conceded. Yet, what horse racing needs least is to have more people contribute to the fumbling of an industry that’s content with the status quo.

… It’s unfair to the sport’s fans if the product they’re paying for keeps getting less desirable. Likewise, it’s unfair to the beneficiaries of the fans’ economic support when the fans don’t effectively communicate what concerns them.

There is leadership associated with being the devil’s advocate, servitude in cozying up to a system that’s failed. HANA and Thorofan should man up to the promise they made members when they signed up. Listing the Top 20 tracks for gamblers, as HANA did, doesn’t help the next 80 tracks in the country perform better. Claiming education to be the answer, as Thorofan does, is like telling the folks on the Titanic that a guy in a canoe is coming to rescue them.

As expected, neither group has been very effective in recruiting members. Ironically, they’re divided in purpose in the same way the sport is divided by 39 jurisdictions. Furthermore, working alone and in competition with each other, both organizations have diluted their influence as lobbyists. But how sweet the offer to fans that there’s someone looking out for them. What a grand proposition the fan-based groups laid out when they surfaced.

Criticism shouldn’t be divisive, but engaging. To wit, challenging how things get done isn’t exclusive of being a team player. If the fan doesn’t speak out against the man, who will?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Thorofan's board IS the racing industry- and their missioin statement is about the fan supporting and learning about the industry side. IMO a shill just like the NTRA "players'" committee.
I doubt Zast knows much about the groups.

[DSB]

Who is this guy anyway?

"Listing the Top 20 tracks for gamblers, as HANA did, doesn’t help the next 80 tracks in the country perform better."

Ummm.... wrong.

If the group can illustrate just what it is that fans want and expect from a racetrack, it helps EVERY track who takes the time to learn what those things are.

The top 20 tracks were listed that highly not because of flowers in the infield, or especially good nachos, but because of things that are important to the horseplayer. Namely: low takeouts, increased wagering opportunities that increase handle, field sizes, etc.

The 80 tracks that didnt make the top can easily find out why the highly rated tracks did, and try to emulate their reasons for success.

[Grits]

This writer is not a favorite. I cringe when I read what he writes for the Blood-Horse while at Saratoga. But this is probably due to his fawning over the Saratoga social scene. Which seems of far greater interest and importance to him than entries, results, and all that goes on during racing hours.

A real throw back to the days of Saratoga Trunk, I admit I find him a bore, pioneer that he is. Too, as he notes, he does live in Saratoga. Along with how many others during the meet? LOLOL

One can expect such from a blog, but the Blood Horse is in a position to do better.

Zast's bio: (from the Horserace Insider page)

From the perspective of being an owner, an industry pioneer in corporate sponsorship, a track president and fan, Vic Zast writes the "Destinations" column for The Blood-Horse. His five-star ratings of international events have shed light on racing in all corners of the globe - from England, Australia, Hong Kong, Dubai to Japan.

Vic is a regular contributor to MSNBC.com, a columnist for the Illinois Racing News and has written on racing for ESPN.com, National Public radio and The Age, Australia's leading daily.

Vic makes his home in Chicago and lives in Saratoga Springs in August.

[Grits]

DSB, I didn't answer your question I know. But reading the column led me to feel, he may not be any more enlightening here than when I look at what he has to say while in Saratoga.

[DSB]

DSB, I didn't answer your question I know. But reading the column led me to feel, he may not be any more enlightening here than when I look at what he has to say while in Saratoga.

Thanks, Grits

Apparently not being familiar with this guy may be a good thing.....

If this piece is representative of his work, I doubt I'd agree with him on much anyway......

[MaryAinMI]

Who is this guy anyway?

"Listing the Top 20 tracks for gamblers, as HANA did, doesn’t help the next 80 tracks in the country perform better."

Ummm.... wrong.

If the group can illustrate just what it is that fans want and expect from a racetrack, it helps EVERY track who takes the time to learn what those things are.

The top 20 tracks were listed that highly not because of flowers in the infield, or especially good nachos, but because of things that are important to the horseplayer. Namely: low takeouts, increased wagering opportunities that increase handle, field sizes, etc.

The 80 tracks that didnt make the top can easily find out why the highly rated tracks did, and try to emulate their reasons for success.

I wish you were right, but I honestly don't think so. The bottom 80 tracks won't really benefit, because every venue is different, every track owner has a different agenda, every State Racing Commission has more or less clout and interest - plus the tracks need more than the betting fan to survive.

Take Beulah Park - whose owner, during some kind of purse/handle/whatever tiff with the horsemen or the State, blurted out, loudly, something to the effect that "The worst horses in the world run here. The absolute worst." He's not going to look at the top 20 tracks and say Wow!! That's all I have to do to be a "better track." It ain't gonna happen.

Vic Zast is a good guy. He makes you look at the problems of the industry across the board. The problems are not just about betting fans. Racing is not just about people who think the NTRA is A-OK.

[DSB]

I wish you were right, but I honestly don't think so. The bottom 80 tracks won't really benefit, because every venue is different, every track owner has a different agenda, every State Racing Commission has more or less clout and interest - plus the tracks need more than the betting fan to survive.

Take Beulah Park - whose owner, during some kind of purse/handle/whatever tiff with the horsemen or the State, blurted out, loudly, something to the effect that "The worst horses in the world run here. The absolute worst." He's not going to look at the top 20 tracks and say Wow!! That's all I have to do to be a "better track." It ain't gonna happen.

Vic Zast is a good guy. He makes you look at the problems of the industry across the board. The problems are not just about betting fans. Racing is not just about people who think the NTRA is A-OK.

You've taken about the most extreme example possible - Beulah Park - to make your point. The fact is, there will be tracks lost in the coming years, and there would have been many lost already if not for an infusion of non-racing revenue - primarily slots profits -to those struggling venues.

I don't think Beulah Park is representative of the 80 tracks that didn't make the top 20 in the poll. If I had said "the majority of the 80 tracks", instead of every track, would that be accurate? Or do you think that the majority of those 80 tracks are doomed to failure no matter what they do?

For argument's sake, don't you think that a track like Beulah, apparently having nothing to lose because they are doomed to failure anyway, couldn't try to improve business by, say, having a "loss leader" bet like a pick 3 with a 12% takeout? I know that I looked into Retama's similar bet because it was a wager I thought could offer an advantage because of the low take. Are you saying that they couldn't, or shouldn't, experiment with 10 cent tri's and supers? Such bets have apparently increased handle elsewhere.

Beulah has base wagers of $2 for all of their bets except a 25 cent pick 6, according the stats supplied by the Racing Form.

Now, admittedly, it's not likely that any of that would make a difference to me, personally, until the caliber of racing and size of pools increased.

However, I don't think a track - any track despite its financial situation - can go wrong by trying to give bettors what they want. Isn't that supposed to be the business they're in?

If you're suggesting that racetracks don't need to pay attention to what's important to bettors and try to accommodate them, because none of it will make any difference, I think you are extremely incorrect.

As far as "Vic Zast being a good guy", well that may well be the case. I don't know him. He may give a large chunk of his income to charity, be great with his kids, and feed his dog prime steak.

I simply don't agree with his statement "Listing the Top 20 tracks for gamblers, as HANA did, doesn’t help the next 80 tracks in the country perform better" is correct.

Just because I don't agree with him doesn't mean that I want to assassinate his character.

Finally, I don't agree with your contention that "tracks need more than the betting fan to survive. "

A more accurate statement would be "tracks will need more than the betting fan to survive if they continue to utilize their current business model."

It's going to take reductions in takeout rates and a long, hard battle to bring fans back into the game, as well as bring new fans into the game.

Once the game is fair to bettors, as it once was, racing will be able to do that.

It can be done. It just takes the will of the status quo to get onboard.

[SMOO]

Who is this guy anyway?

"Listing the Top 20 tracks for gamblers, as HANA did, doesn’t help the next 80 tracks in the country perform better."

Ummm.... wrong.

If the group can illustrate just what it is that fans want and expect from a racetrack, it helps EVERY track who takes the time to learn what those things are.

The top 20 tracks were listed that highly not because of flowers in the infield, or especially good nachos, but because of things that are important to the horseplayer. Namely: low takeouts, increased wagering opportunities that increase handle, field sizes, etc.

The 80 tracks that didnt make the top can easily find out why the highly rated tracks did, and try to emulate their reasons for success.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[chickenhead]

It seems as if he wanted to write a piece critical about Thorofan, and for some reason (that he never backed up in the article), decided to include HANA as a target.

There are things that HANA could be criticized for, but cozying up to the industry, and/or not being vocal enough about some of the issues important to the sports taxpayers are not them.

Unless I'm missing what his criticism actually is, it comes across as either confused or dishonest.

[OTM Al]

Curmudgeonly might be a better word for it. Its not a bad site, but some of the writers seem to have a lot of anger in them......

[highnote]

Curmudgeonly might be a better word for it. Its not a bad site, but some of the writers seem to have a lot of anger in them......


One of my favorite quotes is by H.G. Wells -- "Righteous indignation can be traced to envy."

Maybe that applies to that article?

[DeanT]

You've taken about the most extreme example possible - Beulah Park - to make your point.

Just a quick interjection on Beulah. We were contacted by a few tracks who did not make the top twenty and Beulah was one of them. They asked about what they can do to get better and are passing along criteria to the higher ups to see if they can implement some new measures to make their product more player friendly. I was impressed to hear from them, and it is exactly the feedback we are looking for with the track ratings. Thumbs up to Beulah for being proactive, in a difficult situation in Ohio.

[highnote]

Just a quick interjection on Beulah. We were contacted by a few tracks who did not make the top twenty and Beulah was one of them. They asked about what they can do to get better and are passing along criteria to the higher ups to see if they can implement some new measures to make their product more player friendly. I was impressed to hear from them, and it is exactly the feedback we are looking for with the track ratings. Thumbs up to Beulah for being proactive, in a difficult situation in Ohio.


I grew up in Ohio. The best thing that Beulah could do is move their track to Kentucky. :D

All kidding aside, what they should do is use this tough economic environment to their advantage and tell the state that either the state gives them flexibility and less and regulation or they'll close the track down, thereby, depriving the state of jobs that generate tax revenue. The last thing Ohio wants is fewer jobs for its citizens and lower tax revenues.

This may not be the exact way to go about it -- but that's the basic idea.

[Indulto]

http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog.php/Zasts-TrackWords/comments/02-23-2009manning-up-to-the-man/#comments
COMMENTS

Michael Amo, Chairman of Board--Thorofan says:… Radicalism may be a tool, but should not be the only tool in your toolbox. Our industry has been too divisive for too long. Conflict has been king. “Lets give peace a chance.” Fans with strong and reasoned voices can be constructively critical. We can speak “with the man” and get change. Perhaps fan organizations can be the new platform for cooperative and collaborative discussion and improvement. Thorofan wants to work with ALL STAKEHOLDERS, including the media. How about it?Vic says:… Radicalism? You’ve got to be kidding me? I’d like to see Thorofan put forth an opinion or speak up as fast to the establishment when its constituents, the fans, aren’t happy with something as Michael Amo did in commenting on my essay. Is that a radical idea? I remind all, here’s what I wrote - “Challenging how things get done isn’t exclusive of being a team player” and “It’s unfair to the beneficiaries of the fans’ economic support when the fans don’t effectively communicate what concerns them.”dsp says:… Could you summarize exactly what your criticism of HANA is? Because it certainly wasn’t in any way put forth in your article.Vic says:… I wrote the column to encourage fan-based organizations to carry through on their promise that they would serve as the voice of the fan, not to be critical of any specific organization.

The brunt of my attention fell to Thorofan, because in recent weeks this organization has been active in distributing news releases of how successful it has been in securing the endorsements of the establishment.

It seems to me that HANA is insufficient in that it serves only a slice of horse racing’s market. In addition, a Top 20 poll of horseplayer-accommodating racetracks that is organized by one man is an opinion editorial, not a reflection of consensus, which is normally the focus of a populist organization.

By cozying up to the establishment, fan-based organizations provide the establishment with the false impression that it has the support of fans. In effect, these organizations are encouraged by the establishment because they pose no threat and foster no specific action. In turn, the establishment gets off easy, feels little outside pressure to reform and avoids facing the challenges of change.

If Thorofan and HANA had promoted themselves as fan clubs for horse racing, it would make sense for them to be part of the problem. But they told members that they’d be advocates for their interests, and a greater display of this promise is what’s necessary now to enable them to be effective. Imagine what a strong grassroots lobby might accomplish?I have to confess to being a Vic Zast fan. If I didn’t read his columns regularly, I never would have encountered this particular article which made me wince because it wasn’t worthy of someone with his talent and accomplishments. I assumed HANA would be lodging its own objection at the site.

OA,
As far as HRI columnists are concerned, I don’t think any turf writer comes across as a nicer guy than John Pricci. Christine writes with an edge as well as Zast, but is more subtle and self-deprecating. Moran’s infrequent HRI columns are a subset of those at his own site and perhaps shouldn’t be lumped in with the other three for your purposes.

Both Zast and Moran seem to have a talent for phrases that express irony and expose injustice and/or ineptitude in sometimes exquisite and other times excruciating fashion. Obviously, they are an acquired taste.

Grits,
I also didn’t care much for his B-H columns, but as you pointed out, it had a different audience.

[OTM Al]

OA,[/font]
As far as HRI columnists are concerned, I don’t think any turf writer comes across as a nicer guy than John Pricci. Christine writes with an edge as well as Zast, but is more subtle and self-deprecating. Moran’s infrequent HRI columns are a subset of those at his own site and perhaps shouldn’t be lumped in with the other three for your purposes.

Both Zast and Moran seem to have a talent for phrases that express irony and expose injustice and/or ineptitude in sometimes exquisite and other times excruciating fashion. Obviously, they are an acquired taste.

Yes, he does come across that way, but perhaps actions always haven't matched words. Don't ask because I'm not going to tell. I do agree though that he generally is the best of the bunch and for the most part has been a decent guy. Can't say as I've ever read Christine. Not sure what that says about me or what she writes.

Zast I generally don't have a problem with, but he looks to be catching the same disease as Moran. Its a disease frequent to sports writers from all sports unfortunately. They begin to think that they are the protectors of the sport and any change to the way they remember it being is some sort of blasphemy. It's worse than ever now because of the old print types being pushed out by the electronic media. They hate that. And they begin to get mean and hateful. You are forgiving to call their works edgy. I call them angry and self pitying. These men have great skill. What they once did was a difficult thing to do despite the "dream job" sort of aspect many people who aren't in the industry put on them. So yes, they can still turn a phrase, but how often are they really doing it for the purpose of betterment of the sport and how often are they doing it out of anger.

Michael Kay was talking about just such an issue about baseball writers a week or so ago. Said a lot of the old time writers have absolutly no joy left for the game and all they have left is bitterness and they are furious with the new wave of electronic media. Sounded pretty familiar to me. We need a turf writer that still at least express the joy like Peter Gammons does for baseball. There is enough bitterness already.

[chickenhead]

dsp - deathspiral

as always, my thoughts are my own.

[Indulto]

dsp - deathspiral

as always, my thoughts are my own.Your latest comment there seems to have done the job nicely. I suspect he will have something nice to say about HANA next time.