The new welfare state

[JustRalph]

From http://www.askheritage.org/

The Liberal Welfare State
The 1996 welfare reform bill changed the way government treated welfare. But last week the Left reverted back to the liberal welfare state in the “stimulus” bill. Hidden in the bill was a massive increase in welfare spending. While the 1996 reforms gave states more money if they moved people OFF welfare, the new policy gives states more money if more people stay ON welfare.

Here are the facts on the new welfare policies in this bill:

• Total welfare spending in the bill for programs providing cash, food, housing, and medical care to the poor is over $260 billion or roughly one third the cost of the bill. This represents about $6,700 in new welfare spending for every poor person in the United States.

• But that is just the cost for the first two years. The "stimulus" bill hides the real cost behind a budgetary gimmick that pretends all the new welfare spending will end in two years, even though clearly much of the new welfare spending is intended and designed to be permanent.

• The added cost is another half trillion dollars. The overall 10 year cost of the "stimulus" bill in welfare spending alone will be nearly $800 billion. This new spending amounts to around $22,000 for every poor person in the U.S

more at the link

snip:

The bill contains expansions to food stamps, the earned income tax credit, the refundable child credit, Medicaid eligibility standards, Pell grants, and Title I education grants. But probably most disconcerting is President Obama's "Make Work Pay" refundable tax credit, which will provide up to $500 in cash to low income adults who pay no income taxes, including able-bodied adults without dependent children. This policy is designed solely to redistribute wealth from taxpayers (middle and upper class individuals) to low-income individuals.

[JustRalph]

More commentary on the bill and such

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed021309a.cfm

The bill reverses the bipartisan and highly successful welfare reforms of 1996 and drastically expands the welfare state. For instance, it will start rewarding states for adding people to their welfare rolls, rather than for helping them find gainful employment. And contrary to long-established practice, it will entitle able-bodied adults without children to receive cash assistance.

It does extreme violence to the concept of federalism—bailing out states that have spent irresponsibly at the expense of taxpayers in states that have been fiscally prudent.

It greatly shifts the responsibility and power over health care delivery and decision making from individuals to government. Among other things, it would create a new federal health board to decide which medical services are "effective" in America, paving the way for government effectively to overrule the clinical decisions of private physicians.

It deliberately censors religious speech and worship on school campuses by prohibiting use of any "stimulus" funds for facilities that are used for sectarian instruction, religious worship, or a school of divinity.

[boxcar]

This bill strongly supports my long-held position that the State is not this benevolent, altruistic entity that the democratic party loves to portray itself as, and that so many mind-numbed, robotic and naive liberals believe it to be. Instead, it's a morally corrupt and self-serving entity whose primary goal is the expansion of its own voting base and, therefore, of its power at the terrible expense of the people's liberties. Welcome to totalitarianism.

Boxcar

[The Judge]

will never see it. What happens to all this money for the poor? The poor never see it. What are these poor people doing dining out at the "Top Of The Mark", sending their kids to Harvard or struggling day to day to stay alive and keep food on the table.

Must remember there will be alot more poor people in the very near furture maybe they would like a little money. I know they should work for it, tell that to Wall Street. I just saw the news last night people who were once middle class out of work 2 years willing to take any job. An announcement of minimum wage jobs get a overflow response I mean 100's of applications for 1-2 jobs, why is this if welfare is so great.

More money doesn't change the requirements 5 years and no more welfare.

If the poor were getting all this money that they are accused of getting they wouldn't be poor. Sort of like the schools and the lottery money, in California the lottery was voted in because the public was lied to. We were told that all the lotto money would go to schools. This would be new money and no old money would be taken away all lies same as this . Poor people won't see a dime more of money.

[Tom]

Eliminate the middle man....get a job.

[The Judge]

how many are you hiring this week?

[dutchboy]

The stimulus bill is not just for the poor. Paul Allen who co founded Microsoft is estimated to receive several hundred million if not close to a billion dollars in tax savings.

[NJ Stinks]

More commentary on the bill and such

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed021309a.cfm


It does extreme violence to the concept of federalism—bailing out states that have spent irresponsibly at the expense of taxpayers in states that have been fiscally prudent.

Really? Those fiscally prudent states like Alaska get back $1.84 (2005 figures - the last year available) in federal spending for every $1 Alaska sends to Washington in federal taxes paid. Somebody has to pay for that. Like New Jersey. Yep, in NJ we get back only 61 cents for every dollar we send to Washington.

In 2005, NJ paid $86B in federal taxes and got back $59B. Had we gotten back even a dollar for every dollar we sent to Washington in federal taxes in 2005, instead of having a cumulated long-term state deficit of about $36B in 2009, we would have eliminated most of our deficit in 2005 alone. Meanwhile, Alaska in 2005 paid 5B in federal taxes to Washington and got back $9B in federal spending. No wonder Alaska has a stinking surplus and NJ doesn't! :rolleyes:

NJ gets screwed every year. We get back less percentage-wise than any other state. Normally, I wouldn't even mention it but lately all I hear from conservatives is how "fiscally prudent" states shouldn't have to bail out irresponsible states.

What a bunch of BS. :mad:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

[DJofSD]

Well, what are you NJStinks, a liberal or a conservative?

On one hand you want to give away every one else's money but then when it comes down to the fiscal state of New Jersey, you're not so willing to give it away. Now you want parity.

If you were a true liberal, you'd proudly proclaim great example of the State of New Jersey is setting for the rest of the county but you seem to be singing a different tune.

[slewis]

Rather then crying about subsidization of the poor, you right wingers (and left) should be a tiny bit more pissed at YOUR Gov't (and dont say OBAMA, because the first bill was pushed through with not only NO oversight but NO RECOURSE for funds accountability, with a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION)
for putting EVERYONE in this situation.

They continue to spit at US citizens (this latest trip to Italy by Pelosi is a joke)
and all I hear are debates about liberal this and conservative that.

Get real.

[DJofSD]

Rather then crying about subsidization of the poor, you right wingers (and left) should be a tiny bit more pissed at YOUR Gov't (and dont say OBAMA, because the first bill was pushed through with not only NO oversight but NO RECOURSE for funds accountability, with a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION)
for putting EVERYONE in this situation.

They continue to spit at US citizens (this latest trip to Italy by Pelosi is a joke)
and all I hear are debates about liberal this and conservative that.

Get real.Tiny bit pissed? Tiny bit? I'm ready to revolt. I'm looking for a demostration to join and I'm hoping the Rick Santelli tea party comes to San Diego this summer.

I have no love for Arnold. I just read in the LAT he's not going to attend the conservative's convention. Good. He'll save the state some money by not having to pay O/T for the body guards.

I put all of the politians into the same bucket as the W$ brokerage houses and the irrresponsible CEO's. And it's one hellava smelly bucket too. They're all liars and theives.

I would have absolutely loved to be a fly on the wall when the Pontif upbraided Nancy.

[slewis]

Tiny bit pissed? Tiny bit? I'm ready to revolt. I'm looking for a demostration to join and I'm hoping the Rick Santelli tea party comes to San Diego this summer.

I have no love for Arnold. I just read in the LAT he's not going to attend the conservative's convention. Good. He'll save the state some money by not having to pay O/T for the body guards.

I put all of the politians into the same bucket as the W$ brokerage houses and the irrresponsible CEO's. And it's one hellava smelly bucket too. They're all liars and theives.

I would have absolutely loved to be a fly on the wall when the Pontif upbraided Nancy.

I noticed that the media has squashed this story a bit DJ, but did you hear about the two busloads of forclosed owners who went to the homes of CEO's of BOA and Citi in wealthy Greenwich CT and put their furnature on the front lawns?
Funny thing is that they were pouding on what they thought was the front door of one of the residents and a neighbor came out and said "that's not where he and his family live, that's the caretakers house, his house is that Super mansion on the top of the hill"!!!

Riots in the streets are not too far down the road......

[JustRalph]

Tiny bit pissed? Tiny bit? I'm ready to revolt. I'm looking for a demostration to join and I'm hoping the Rick Santelli tea party comes to San Diego this summer.

Santelli wasn't the first to mention a tea party

www.conservativeteaparty.com

[BlueShoe]

Quote,"riots in the streets are not too far down the road...".
Thats why I have been scanning the sporting goods store ads looking for ammo sales.In the 1930's depression people had resourcefulness and backbone and did the best they could.In todays entitlement mindset environment this is not the case,and like the man said,we could see some civil unrest.That would be an excuse for the administration to enact controls in the name of "restoring order".Btw,has anyone heard anything about Obama's plans to create a national police force?He mentioned this during the campaign.That would be the final straw for many;hire a bunch of unemployed goons,and create a modern Gestapo.

[Tom]

how many are you hiring this week?

We hired one this week.
Jobs are out there. You have to be very lame not be able to find one.
Oh, you might not get the dream job you want, or you might take a pay cut, or you might have to actually work, but jobs are out there.

[Tom]

Rather then crying about subsidization of the poor, you right wingers (and left) should be a tiny bit more pissed at YOUR Gov't (and dont say OBAMA, because the first bill was pushed through with not only NO oversight but NO RECOURSE for funds accountability, with a REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION)
for putting EVERYONE in this situation.

They continue to spit at US citizens (this latest trip to Italy by Pelosi is a joke)
and all I hear are debates about liberal this and conservative that.

Get real.


HALF TRUTH.
It was written by a democrat congress, and Obama did more to push it than Bush did, or least they were equally to blame. And all any of your dems in the majority had to do was put oversight into it. Make it QUARTER TRUTH.

[NJ Stinks]

Well, what are you NJStinks, a liberal or a conservative?

On one hand you want to give away every one else's money but then when it comes down to the fiscal state of New Jersey, you're not so willing to give it away. Now you want parity.

If you were a true liberal, you'd proudly proclaim great example of the State of New Jersey is setting for the rest of the county but you seem to be singing a different tune.

Maybe you need to change your glasses, DJof SD. I said: "Normally, I wouldn't even mention it but lately all I hear from conservatives is how "fiscally prudent" states shouldn't have to bail out irresponsible states."

I understand NJ is wealthier than most states and has to pay much more if the entire country is going prosper. But I take exception to conservatives trying to BS me about "fiscally prudent" states like Alaska. Got it? I doubt it. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

Alaska is being fiscally prudent here, because like everything else OBama says, you have to read the fine print. the entitlement aspect of the programs tied into this slice of pork for the freezer state would actually cost Alaska more money in the long run on program they are not interested in maintaining.

[riskman]

The masses are starting to wake up. The figures below came from a poll at AOL today.

Poll Results:
What do you think of the stimulus plan so far?
Thumbs Down 64% 78,414
Thumbs Up 36% 43,562

Total Votes: 121,976

[boxcar]

I can't wait until this Marxist Moron in Washington overreaches. Then a lot more people will get it also.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

Box.............that is a great Avatar!!!

[boxcar]

Box.............that is a great Avatar!!!

Thanks, JR.

Boxcar

[slewis]

HALF TRUTH.
It was written by a democrat congress, and Obama did more to push it than Bush did, or least they were equally to blame. And all any of your dems in the majority had to do was put oversight into it. Make it QUARTER TRUTH.

Tom,

That's BS.... Reps or Dems (and trust me, I, unlike you, have NO allegiance to either) could have shown some B**LS and voted no. ESPECIALLY MCCAIN who stated that the PORK had to stop. They INCLUDED pork (including breaks to NASCAR) in the bill. Let's piss more money away to China and every other country that will buy our debt.
All I'm saying is that the political system is so seriously damaged that "rooting" for one side and knocking the other is a TOTAL waste at this point.
But even worse, with the EXTREME crisis we are in, it's dangerous.

So go on, keep smashing the left and others will keep blaming the right and I'll remind you of a guy named Nero.

One more thing, for you or anyone else reading this who disagrees.
This country was never originally set up to run the way things go down today.
For example: Lobbyist = Bribery. How this "tool" continues to be legal in our Republic is the epitome of what's wrong today.

If our founding fathers and great leaders could see this, they are surely turning in their graves at the mess that's been created.
But even worse, now that the mess HAS been created, the greed is ever more rampant then ever.

[ddog]

slewis


there are a set of people on both sides that can't give it up.

they "know" they are screwed big-time , in many cases by their own kind but they are locked into a mindset that makes them powerless to do anything about it.

it's just a way for them to pass the time until they get to hop on the big welfare gravy train they profess to despise, if they are not already on it via the middle/upper middle class welfare already doled out via the massive deficts we run year after year after year.

[boxcar]

Tom,

That's BS.... Reps or Dems (and trust me, I, unlike you, have NO allegiance to either) could have shown some B**LS and voted no. ESPECIALLY MCCAIN who stated that the PORK had to stop. They INCLUDED pork (including breaks to NASCAR) in the bill. Let's piss more money away to China and every other country that will buy our debt.
All I'm saying is that the political system is so seriously damaged that "rooting" for one side and knocking the other is a TOTAL waste at this point.
But even worse, with the EXTREME crisis we are in, it's dangerous.

So go on, keep smashing the left and others will keep blaming the right and I'll remind you of a guy named Nero.

One more thing, for you or anyone else reading this who disagrees.
This country was never originally set up to run the way things go down today.
For example: Lobbyist = Bribery. How this "tool" continues to be legal in our Republic is the epitome of what's wrong today.

If our founding fathers and great leaders could see this, they are surely turning in their graves at the mess that's been created.
But even worse, now that the mess HAS been created, the greed is ever more rampant then ever.

Geesh, SL, this is one of your better posts. I actually agree with most of it.

Permit to expand a little on your 'lobbyist" objection you raise, which is a good one. But it's not the root cause of the problem. It's symptomatic.

The Good Book says that "the root of all evil is the love of money." (The good Lord certainly has a way with words, doesn't he? He really knows how to nail things down succinctly and solidly -- how to get to the crux of all the evil in the world -- what the driving force behind all evil is. But I digress.)
I submit to you, sir, that our political system -- in this great "free" society is corrupt long before anyone is elected to office at any level of government; for the the very first thing any candidate for elected office urgently seeks and desperately relies upon in order to achieve power are campaign contributions.. Our political system is corrupted by this ardent and incessant pursuit of financial support before it even leaves the gate! Think about the implications behind this inescapable fact. Once a candidate accepts money from someone else, isn't the recipient obligated to his donors? Isn't he or she beholding to his donors? The political fund raising system and campaign contribution system are analogous to the capitalistic, free market relationship between a corporation and its investors, i.e. shareholders. People do not contribute money to a campaign unless they expect something in return. So, when the candidate finally gets elected, he is not the elected official of "all" the people. Yes, in theory he is but practically speaking he's not because he has to fulfill his obligations to the people and corporations who made it possible for him to achieve power -- if he has an aspirations for getting re-elected. His power is not his own. It's been bought and paid for! And this, sir, is why America is practically in a free fall decline -- on many levels. The entire political system had become over these many decades corrupted beyond comprehension, I'm afraid. And I see no end in sight. The entire system would need a massive overhaul -- in fact probably gutted in order to start from the bottom up. But do you see anyone leading the charge for this kind change? Is there any hope for this kind of change? Oh...yeah...We have elected Mr. Hope and Change, haven't we? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[BlueShoe]

The following quote has been attibuted to several men,including Thomas Jefferson and Barry Goldwater.It matters not the originator;what matters is its grim message that today just may be prophetic.
"A govenment big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have".

[slewis]

Boxcar,


I certainly dont see the guy elected making those changes, or even steps in the right direction.
When this banking crisis started..(you can check my posts) I stated that we have no idea of the severity of this problem.
I say this with confidence because of the 18 yrs I spent in the banking business.

So far, this new admistration is making ALL THE WRONG DECISIONS.
(My opinion).

Here's what I would do:

Let the real estate market tank 30%.
Rasie interest rates slightly to get out the weak.
Let the Govt take over foreclosed property (pay) the mortgage holder, heck we are bailing him out anyway, at least we'd hold a real asset.. the land which could be sold later.

Stop ALL immigration and no H-1b visas unless absolutely necessary.
Fire all banking executives.

That's just a start.

[slewis]

Oh, one more important rule/law...


Anyone who walks away from a mortgage because the property value has dropped... cannot get a mortgage from any bank for 20 yrs.......

[DJofSD]

The Good Book says that "the root of all evil is the love of money."

If you're going to take quotations from the Bible and twist them to make a point you're going to be challenged.

The meaning behind the message is that greed is at the root of the evil that man falls victim to. Having money and seeking money is not bad. If you didn't do so, how would you pay your debts?

[boxcar]

If you're going to take quotations from the Bible and twist them to make a point you're going to be challenged.

The meaning behind the message is that greed is at the root of the evil that man falls victim to. Having money and seeking money is not bad. If you didn't do so, how would you pay your debts?

You read something into the passage that's not there. I never said, nor does the bible say anywhere that having money or making money is evil. But seeking after money for the mere sake of having it or to satisfy selfish ambition certainly implies a love for it, doesn't it!? So, sir, how have I twisted anything?

Eccl 4:8
8 There was a certain man without a dependent, having neither a son nor a brother, yet there was no end to all his labor. Indeed, his eyes were not satisfied with riches and he never asked, "And for whom am I laboring and depriving myself of pleasure?" This too is vanity and it is a grievous task.
NASB

Eccl 5:10
10 He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves abundance with its income. This too is vanity.
NASB

Tell me, sir, how many people do you think believe that the possession of a large amount of money will buy or guarantee their happiness? There are more than a few people in this world who believe that it would be a very good thing to acquire large amounts of money -- as though money was some kind of ironclad insurance policy to combat unhappiness and misery. These people love money.

Then there are people who desire large amounts of money for personal gain -- for personal ambition -- such as the acquisition of power in political office.

So, yes...the love of money is the root of all evil in this world because of deluded people's perception of what they think money will buy them in this life. There are many people who make money their only treasure in this life because they believe this life is all there is. So, let's all eat, drink and be merry -- and the more money we have to do that with, so much the better.

Boxcar

[DJofSD]

Yes, let's eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we all may die. Or, in other words, live in the moment (like dogs do).

Life is like a sh*t sandwich -- the more bread you have, the less sh*t you eat.

Good punting today!

[boxcar]

Yes, let's eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we all may die. Or, in other words, live in the moment (like dogs do).

Life is like a sh*t sandwich -- the more bread you have, the less sh*t you eat.

Wow! I had no idea that you had such profound, inspiring philosophical gems to share with the world. I'm nearly awe-stuck. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Tom]

See, now this is why I love this place so much! :lol:

[ddog]

Boxcar,


I certainly dont see the guy elected making those changes, or even steps in the right direction.
When this banking crisis started..(you can check my posts) I stated that we have no idea of the severity of this problem.
I say this with confidence because of the 18 yrs I spent in the banking business.

So far, this new admistration is making ALL THE WRONG DECISIONS.
(My opinion).

Here's what I would do:

Let the real estate market tank 30%.
Rasie interest rates slightly to get out the weak.
Let the Govt take over foreclosed property (pay) the mortgage holder, heck we are bailing him out anyway, at least we'd hold a real asset.. the land which could be sold later.

Stop ALL immigration and no H-1b visas unless absolutely necessary.
Fire all banking executives.

That's just a start.


http://buchanan.org/blog/2009/02/pjb-courage-mr-holder/


By Patrick J. Buchanan

Lecturing a conscript conclave of Justice Department bureaucrats, Attorney General Eric Holder last week called America a “nation of cowards” for not spending more time talking about race.

Reading his speech, however, one recalls the sage counsel of Pat Moynihan to President Nixon in 1970: This whole subject might benefit from a long period of “benign neglect.”

One point Holder did allude to, without specifics, was this:

“It is not safe for this nation to assume that the unaddressed social problems in the poorest parts of the country can be isolated and will not ultimately affect the larger society.”

Fair point. And what are some of those social problems?

THE REST AT THE LINK ABOVE