Trump Casino Group In Financial Trouble

[trying2win]

It says in the article below that Donald Trump's casino company is expected to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Hooray I say! I hope more casinos in Canada and the U.S. go broke. In my opinion, they are a blight on society.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20090218/ten-us-trump-casino-1dc2b55.html

Part of the reason casinos are going broke this year allegedly is the economy. Could be. Perhaps part of the reason as well, is more people are getting wise to the fact that if one is a regular customer of casinos, you're going to lose in the long run....and that is a fact, because of the 'house edge' on every bet in casino games.

A lot of naive people throw away money on casinos and lottery tickets hoping to 'get rich quick'. Reality sets in after awhile for many of these folks when they start to wonder how come they keep losing money in the long run. They start to ask intelligent questions, check out things like 'house edges', takeouts, realities of winning in the long run etc. Seems to me, if one is going to gamble, they might as well do it on parimutuel events. That's where some bettors have at least a possibility of profiting in the long run, because one is betting against fellow handicappers, and not the house. For example, for those that don't know, betting on the horses is a game of skill and luck, where a shrewd bettor can gain an edge. On the other hand, if one is betting on casino games and lotteries, they are strictly games of luck, and the edge always favors the 'house' in the long run.

Anyway, changing the subject slightly, I was wondering something. If one or many casinos in Atlantic City are in financial trouble this year, does that mean that New Jersey thorougbred racetracks won't be getting any subsidy from New Jersey casinos this year? If so, I wonder what will happen to the fortunes of these racetracks then?

T2W

[Bruddah]

But here's the rub. Of all business ventures, if managemnt can't be solvent and make profits with a "Cash Cow" Casino, then there are only a few reasons why. 1) they have no business 2) The Casino's base operating costs for it's business model are over inflated. 3) Tony and the Boys are walking out the back door Wid Da Kash! 4) The management is inbred 4 by 4.

I know, I damn sure wouldn't hire a Casino executive to run any business that requires real skills. That includes "The Donald" and his blown up, manufactured reputation. Supposedly, he has a Wharton MBA. I think it was handed to him out of the back door, in the trash compactor room. If his father hadn't been a good business man, "The Donald" never would gotten beyond a Central Park bench. :lol: :rolleyes:

[proximity]

But here's the rub. Of all business ventures, if managemnt can't be solvent and make profits with a "Cash Cow" Casino, then there are only a few reasons why. 1) they have no business 2) The Casino's base operating costs for it's business model are over inflated. 3) Tony and the Boys are walking out the back door Wid Da Kash! 4) The management is inbred 4 by 4.

I know, I damn sure wouldn't hire a Casino executive to run any business that requires real skills. That includes "The Donald" and his blown up, manufactured reputation. Supposedly, he has a Wharton MBA. I think it was handed to him out of the back door, in the trash compactor room. If his father hadn't been a good business man, "The Donald" never would gotten beyond a Central Park bench. :lol: :rolleyes:

this post is 100%.

can't make money with a casino?

there should be a law that if we ever have to read another headline like this again then every "executive" of the casino should have to pay back every single cent he/she ever made working there. thngs are set up for just a handful of people to make money.... and a handful that already has all the money they'll ever need at that.

[onefast99]

Trump resigned from the board of directors at Trump Entertainment. Value of the casino is about 2b they owe around 1.8b. Not in a good position right now. NJ is also at fault for not allowing casinos to go into vacation areas and limiting them to AC. Asbury park was to get a Jai Alai fronton and horsebook it never happened. Greed wasnt good in AC.

[garyoz]

The problem is leverage (the amount of debt). Capital structure issue--although I'm sure operations are soft.

[onefast99]

The problem is leverage (the amount of debt). Capital structure issue--although I'm sure operations are soft.
Most of these casinos borrow heavy off of their credit lines or commercial loans. The problem is there are very few players left that will take on risk paper like casinos. Once the economy comes back the casinos will make money again. One of the positives is people may gravitate to the racetrack instead of AC.

[rrbauer]

One of the positives is people may gravitate to the racetrack instead of AC.

Wishful thinking at best. People learned about losing at the track long before they learned about losing at casinos. Once racing lost its monopoly on legal gambling the downward spiral began. The spiral continues and the people in charge are in mixed states of denial, delusion and dumbfoundment.

[onefast99]

Wishful thinking at best. People learned about losing at the track long before they learned about losing at casinos. Once racing lost its monopoly on legal gambling the downward spiral began. The spiral continues and the people in charge are in mixed states of denial, delusion and dumbfoundment.
I have noticed that some of the older casinos where the younger player doesnt go to like resorts and the taj are in trouble. Borgata gets it fair share of younger gamblers as well as Ceasers and Harrahs Marina. I think the older AC gambler may look at going to the racetrack more often.

[trying2win]

No one has answered the question yet from the last paragraph of my first post in this thread. It's about New Jersey casino subsidies to thoroughbred tracks in this state for this year. Do you think these racetracks will be out of luck in 2009 in regards to receiving any subsidies?

T2W

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~"Never think if you can solve a problem. Think how you solve it."

--Norman Vincent Peale

[JPinMaryland]

this post is 100%.

can't make money with a casino?

there should be a law that if we ever have to read another headline like this again then every "executive" of the casino should have to pay back every single cent he/she ever made working there. thngs are set up for just a handful of people to make money.... and a handful that already has all the money they'll ever need at that.

what are you, a communist?

[proximity]

what are you, a communist?

quite the contrary. i'd be all for you or me being able to set up our own casinos wherever we want to with little or no government interference. unfortunately that is not the environment these casinos (and racinos) operate in.

[onefast99]

No one has answered the question yet from the last paragraph of my first post in this thread. It's about New Jersey casino subsidies to thoroughbred tracks in this state for this year. Do you think these racetracks will be out of luck in 2009 in regards to receiving any subsidies?

T2W

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~"Never think if you can solve a problem. Think how you solve it."

--Norman Vincent Peale
It ends in 2011.

[onefast99]

Anyway, changing the subject slightly, I was wondering something. If one or many casinos in Atlantic City are in financial trouble this year, does that mean that New Jersey thorougbred racetracks won't be getting any subsidy from New Jersey casinos this year? If so, I wonder what will happen to the fortunes of these racetracks then?

T2W[/QUOTE]
It is ending in 2011. Hopefully the powers that be will bring the slots into the Meadowlands and Monmouth park.

[Brogan]

I think what he's trying to ask is if the casinos are in financial trouble, will they be able to make this year's payment to the subsidy fund.

[DSB]

I think what he's trying to ask is if the casinos are in financial trouble, will they be able to make this year's payment to the subsidy fund.

I don't recall ever reading that the subsidy is conditional upon the balance sheets of the casinos.

[trying2win]

ONE FAST, BROGAN, DSB:

Thanks for your help. Yeah, it should be interesting to see later this year when the New Jersey thoroughbred tracks ask the New Jersey casinos..."When will I receive my subsidy this year."? I know I'm being facitious in the following scenarios, but, will the standard reply be?:

1. The cheque will be in the mail and you should receive it in a few days.

2. We're a little short on cash in the bank right now. However, we'll see if we can get a loan from somewhere, in order to keep our previous commitment to you.

3. Would you believe all I can give you for now is an I.O.U.? We seem to have a problem with cash flow at the moment.

- It's quite possible when previous agreements were made on subsidies to New Jersey racetracks, that casinos would automatically put money aside for that purpose in a trust account.

T2W

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~"There is a very easy way to return from a casino with a small fortune. Go there with a large one."

--Jack Yelton

[Brogan]

I don't recall ever reading that the subsidy is conditional upon the balance sheets of the casinos.

The obligation to contribute to the subsidy is not the same as having the cash available to actually make the payment. Of course the casinos are committed to and bound by the current agreement to make the payments. If it wasn't paid in full at the time of the agreement, it's feasible that some of the contributing parties may say they don't have the cash available when its due.

Welcome to NJ racing!

[garyoz]

Good point--it could just be another accruing liability. Also under bankruptcy payments need to be approved by the presiding judge--possibly he/she could just decide to let the cash stay in the business and payments (plus interest) made after emerging from bankruptcy. Of course, this is only one of the casinos--not sure what percent of the subsidy. Don't know much about the subsidy, except I'd guess in these economic times the New Jersey could have better uses for casino taxes (speculation).