Heavy exercise riders... Unsoundness

[macguy]

I was just reading the Asmussen thread, and got to wondering about exercise riders.

What is the average weight for exercise riders these days?

I know the population as a whole is getting larger and, unlike the old days, there probably aren't a lot of 14 and 15 year old boys working at the racetrack exercising horses.

Are heavier exercise riders being used these days? (I would think so.)
How heavy is too heavy (140? 150? 160?).
Do you figure the size of exercise riders perhaps has anything to do with the general unsoundness of today's racehorses?

[DSB]

I was just reading the Asmussen thread, and got to wondering about exercise riders.

What is the average weight for exercise riders these days?

I know the population as a whole is getting larger and, unlike the old days, there probably aren't a lot of 14 and 15 year old boys working at the racetrack exercising horses.

Are heavier exercise riders being used these days? (I would think so.)
How heavy is too heavy (140? 150? 160?).
Do you figure the size of exercise riders perhaps has anything to do with the general unsoundness of today's racehorses?

In the old days, there weren't nearly as many women and hispanics galloping horses.

Today, they have filled the void. Not much difference in weight from the old days, just who's doing the exercising.

My opinion is that the increasing unsoundness of the breed comes from breeding, not weight of exercise riders.

[Brogan]

I really don't remember many exercise boys catching my eye as being "big" way back when.

Nowadays, its a different story...there are definitely some I see on a regular basis that I'd never consider putting on one of my horses. Unfortunately, once you start weeding out the incompetents, the drunks, the unreliables and the inexperienced, your choices start getting pretty slim.

A good exercise boy that can really communicate to you what is going on with your animal is worth his weight (pun intended) in gold.

[LIH]

Like all good horseman know, it is not always necessarily the weight of a rider inasmuch as the way one carries his weight. I have seen 120 lb and under riders throw their weight around heavy and unballanced, and also watched a 150 lb rider be as balanced and poised as poetry on top of a horse. I am not a believer in high speed workouts, two minute licks and breeze work with heavy weighted riders atop. This being said, I've also seen far too many featherweights not be able to breeze one in the morning as well. There are far too many "jock weight" excersize riders come off the track with a smile that they got one to go a half in 50, without realizing they did the first quarter in 23, and finished up in 27. It's all about balance, and the hands.

[Brogan]

Not having a "clock in their head" is a common problem with exercise boys.

A few years ago, we sent out a horse with the intention of having him two minute lick. (Just in case some don't know, that's a mile in two minutes...faster than a gallop, slower than a work). What we got was entirely something else.

All the fractions were wildly uneven, the full mile went in 1:47, the clockers caught a 6F piece fast enough to get us a published work...and that wasn't even the fastest 6F part of that adventure.

Luckily, the horse returned in one piece, but haven't used that rider much since.

[ralph_the_cat]

Like all good horseman know, it is not always necessarily the weight of a rider inasmuch as the way one carries his weight. I have seen 120 lb and under riders throw their weight around heavy and unballanced, and also watched a 150 lb rider be as balanced and poised as poetry on top of a horse. I am not a believer in high speed workouts, two minute licks and breeze work with heavy weighted riders atop. This being said, I've also seen far too many featherweights not be able to breeze one in the morning as well. There are far too many "jock weight" excersize riders come off the track with a smile that they got one to go a half in 50, without realizing they did the first quarter in 23, and finished up in 27. It's all about balance, and the hands.

good post...

You want a light rider that can carry his or her weight well when you work a horse at higher speeds... 2 minute lick etc...

I have no problem letting a 140lb rider gallop a horse lightly or just for a back jog, most of the time, its better, the rider tends to have more strength and can keep the horse at a slower more controlled pace... but once you start hitting 150lbs, thats just too much IMO, even at low speeds, the lower the speeds, the more tight their head is when their jogging, theirs heads will usually be tucked under or pulled to the left to maintain the low speed, thats an unnatural position, you dont want to put extra weight on a horse when hes traveling in a position thats not natural... also, some horse tend to start galloping side ways when they are asked to gallop slow, again, I wouldnt want a 150+lbs rider galloping a horse like that... it can be bad enough with a light rider... sometimes its better to just give the horse his head and pick up some speed, so hes galloping in a more natural position, tough calls sometimes... weight should always be a factor when figuring out what the horse is going to do on the track in the morning, when not approached in the right manner, a simple morning out can cause problems... Overall, IMO, there are heavier excercise riders today than in years past... I blame that on the McDonalds and Wendy's... which are located too close to most racetracks these days... speaking of which, I could really go for a JR, Bacon Cheeseburger....

[JustRalph]

Check out this video and tell me who is riding Eight Belles in this workout

0qlzRZGBSvg

[ralph_the_cat]

you dont know?...:faint: or are you trying to make a point?... ;)

[JustRalph]

you dont know?...:faint: or are you trying to make a point?... ;)

just makin a point

[macguy]

just makin a point


That's kind of what I was wondering.

There's no doubt in my mind that pretty near any 4 year old horse or older is more than capable of carrying the full weight of an adult human, but I would think it would be a little stickier of an issue with the 2 and 3 year olds.


Seems to me at most tracks these days it's not uncommon to see more than a few 6' - 160, 170 pounders galloping around the racetrack.

[ManeMediaMogul]

Larry Jones and Bruce Headley are two fine trainers who are grown men and gallop their own horses. Both are known for giving their horses careers and not just meets.

[DanG]

Great points about a well balanced seat vs. a passenger out of rhythm with the animal; but…

Pure physics says it can’t help to have more force when the leg strikes the surface…doesn’t it? We have all seen the overmatched 35-1 shot make a harness type brush after losing their rider. A burst they could never make with a passenger if shot from a howitzer.

Impossible to say in absolute terms but I fail to see how Rosie O'Donnell in the saddle ultimately helps the cause.

Having said that; the scale of weights MUST be raised to somehow reflect the natural evolution on humans. The sparse food we allow these grown men and women to consume is barbaric. :ThmbDown:

[GaryG]

Having said that; the scale of weights MUST be raised to somehow reflect the natural evolution on humans. The sparse food we allow these grown men and women to consume is barbaric. :ThmbDown:Trainers have become ridiculously paranoid about weight. Not too long ago a high weight of 126 was standard in hcp races. I was hoping something would get done a couple of years ago when HBO did that special with Randy Romero and Shane Sellers. Randy is the best rider to ever come out of Louisiana. It is tragic what he did to keep making the weight. Sure don't see any change (I hate that bleeping word) on the horizon either.

[DanG]

Trainers have become ridiculously paranoid about weight. Not too long ago a high weight of 126 was standard in hcp races. I was hoping something would get done a couple of years ago when HBO did that special with Randy Romero and Shane Sellers. Randy is the best rider to ever come out of Louisiana. It is tragic what he did to keep making the weight. Sure don't see any change (I hate that bleeping word) on the horizon either.
Well said Gary;

NY in particular has had a reputation of being fanatical; just ask Pincay who literally tortured himself when he tried the NYRA circuit.

I notice a drop off in my concentration when I sleep 4 hours instead of the usual 7. :eek: I can’t imagine trying it after working horses before sunrise / running multiple laps in a rubber suit / locking myself in a 100’ degree sweat box / throwing up a perfectly good breakfast and then limiting my water intake for fear of making weight. Enough already… :bang:

[LIH]

Wonderful post everyone, nice to read comments that are intelligent, and knowledgeable. I applaud you all.

I agree that trainers are ridiculously paranioid about the weight factor issue. I see no change in the future for the scale of weights being overhauled, IMHO that will never go over big, especially with the increasing issues about racehorse unsoundness that are now developing into a full scale general public awareness issue. Racehorse unsoundness has always been around. I remember getting off my big horse back in 1982, being a nervous wreck, telling my boss, "something is just not right", and being horrified day after day, as he hoisted me aboard, making no change in my mounts training schedule. After weeks, when my "feelings" and intuitions were disregareded, and me being told I was too "emotionally attached" to the animal as so to have any kind of rational decision making abilities because I was not on the decision making end of the business, and didn't have to answer to "demanding owners" or "expensive feed bills", I watched my big horse, after being sent out for just "one more race, then he'll get a break", get a break allright. He broke both front legs off. I will never forget it, it damaged me, and I still remember that horses big beautiful kind brown eyes. He gave everything his all, everytime. Even his gallops in the morning were honest, and happy, and given as an answer to me when I would ask him, "what do you got today big boy"". He answered, over and over again. He was no Derby winner, but one hell of a state bred, who won all the big stakes that were around back then for him. I will never forget him, he was one of the many along the way who taught me what racehorse courage was. What racehorse desire was, what racehorse will is. It is an amazing thing to be in on, and a privaledge to be around. I will never forget him. He was the bomb. He was sick. He was amazing.

No one clear cut reason stands alone for all the racehorse unsoundness there is today, yet as with many things, it is a combination of many factors merging into the "perfect storm" of a full blown state of emergency within our industry. But make no mistake people, it has always been around, always been a problem, there is just more of it, and with a new brand of calousness, and widespread ignorance. People want in the game without doing their homework, not doing the time, nor paying their dues, and also, by NOT LISTENING TO THE SIGNS THAT SHOULD GUIDE THEM upon lessons they should be learning. True horseman listen to the signs, and the clues, and respond for the better good of the Thoroughbred, not the chance at winning an almighty dollar. All of us good horseman know there is a VERY fine line between the delicate balance of decisions made to get a horse to a race, and blatent cruelty in ignoring signs to the detreiment of the Thoroughbred and the riders on their backs. One more injection to a joint, one more race, and I'll give him time off. Drop him down where he can win, don't train him for 3 days, give him some of this, or that, to get him off the vets list, cover ups, lies, meds,non truths, fix em up, send them out there, and hope someone takes him, and ON AND ON AND ON. There are less and less true horseman out there training, breeding, riding, and caring for out wonderful animals. When that happens, a govering body devoid of any true integrity emerges. In lots of instances this proves catastrophic. I hope the concern for the Thoroughbred Racehorse and the love and passion of this animal remains the only focus of any decisions made and that the powerful people within our industry are guided by these emotions when making their choices. We all can do something, even in small ways, and I hope that we can see a turn upward starting from this day forward. It is imperitive for it's survivial. When a living breathing animal is involved, choices for his well being has to be made first and foremost.

[Imriledup]

Horses with exercise riders weighing over 160 seem to just be in galloping mode. Boys that big don't normally work a horse for huge speed, most of the time, the bigger 'boy' is just out there for a gallop. When a trainer works for speed, he'll do so with a jock or a lighter exercise rider. I think that if you saw a lot of trainers working horses in 100 for 5 furlongs with a 160 lb rider, you would see more injuries than the heavy boy just along for a light gallop.

[barn11]

Like all good horseman know, it is not always necessarily the weight of a rider inasmuch as the way one carries his weight. I have seen 120 lb and under riders throw their weight around heavy and unballanced, and also watched a 150 lb rider be as balanced and poised as poetry on top of a horse. I am not a believer in high speed workouts, two minute licks and breeze work with heavy weighted riders atop. This being said, I've also seen far too many featherweights not be able to breeze one in the morning as well. There are far too many "jock weight" excersize riders come off the track with a smile that they got one to go a half in 50, without realizing they did the first quarter in 23, and finished up in 27. It's all about balance, and the hands.

Absolutely right about ability being more important than just weight. Especially if part of that weight is made up of a brain. Rather have a 150 lb rider pull my horse up because he doesn't feel right than a 120 lb pinhead not notice. For me it just comes down to a little common sense. I will take weight in to account when breezing a smallish 2yo filly much more than an older, bigger horse. And their level of fitness. Extra weight at the end of a breeze when the horse may be getting tired is way more dangerous than on a maintanence move for a fitter horse. But give me riding ability and a few more pounds over some no riding lighter rider ANY DAY