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Tom
02-13-2009, 10:12 AM
More lies from the left.
OBama said we would have 5 days to review the pork bill.
The bill itself calls for 48 hours on line.
Today, it will be voted on, with zero chance for anyone, including the senate, to read this bill, the largest spending bill in history.

Why?

Because Nancy Pelosi is leaving tonight on an 8 day vacation.
Apparently her vacation is more important than our country.
Check Drudge.

Traitors, all.
Liars, traitors, terror enablers...this is your democrat government.

dutchboy
02-13-2009, 10:32 AM
Pelosi's district in Ca will receive 35 MILLION as part of the stimulus bill to protect the habitat of an endangered MOUSE species.

Just don't know what they are thinking. None of it makes any sense to me.

Tom
02-13-2009, 11:08 AM
Yes, Pelsoi is nothing but a thief.

Burls
02-13-2009, 12:33 PM
Yes, Pelsoi is nothing but a thief.Do you secretly have the hots for Nancy, Tom? ...:eek:

Tom
02-13-2009, 12:50 PM
I'm afraid she's already spoken for......

boxcar
02-13-2009, 12:56 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

jognlope
02-13-2009, 01:19 PM
Well I hope the mouse finds the bird that doesn't exist but got $22 million to find it a couple years ago.

jballscalls
02-13-2009, 03:04 PM
Pelosi is the worst, bar none.

bigmack
02-13-2009, 05:26 PM
Be one of the few to read the bill:
http://readthestimulus.org/
All 1588 pages

lamboguy
02-13-2009, 06:44 PM
i read its a joke, just like the internet gambling act and patriot act.

Lefty
02-13-2009, 09:57 PM
The states get money according to their welfare rolls. The more on welfare the more dough they get. When we all become Socialists we'll have to all be capitalists again because there won't be anybody left to tax.

lamboguy
02-14-2009, 05:22 AM
our new president is a professional liar. he is scaring everyone.


i believe in numbers. bush took the stock market down from 10500 to 8500, he brought gold up from $250-$800. i have no clue what is going to happen with the stock market in the future, but i certainly see gold going to the thousands with the way we are heading.

Tom
02-14-2009, 09:59 AM
More lies......

The lying bastard said CAtapillar would be hiring more people back from layoff after the pork bill passed, but the CEO disagreed! Obama is a bold faced liar, FACT!

The jerk said there were no earmork and no pork in the pork bill.....'splain to me the Pelsio louse, Barry, you lying SOS.

This POS is not my president and he is an embarrassment to our formely great nation.

The time is NOW....this POS must be stopped.
Time to break up the union.

lamboguy
02-14-2009, 10:11 AM
i find myself agreeing with tom more and more these days. however please don't just don't give the credit to obama, bush was no better, he was smarter and more devious than barry.

it seems to me that these elected officials hide behind their agenda's. bush hid behind morality, and obama is hiding behind liberalism. both seem to be be on the side of bankers at any cost.

at least with bush he wasn't as open about it as this guy is. he is playing the american public like a fiddle.

Marshall Bennett
02-14-2009, 12:30 PM
Bush was never the two-faced rat-bastard Obama is turning out to be . I was truely willing to give the man a chance too . Hasn't been but a little over three weeks now and he's lost what little respect I ever had for him . Just as I expected , he's allowed his POS puppit masters to ram their agenda up his nose and he's spitting it out all over everyone . This bill will fail , our kids and grandkids will pay dearly , and its completely , 100% HIS fault .

lamboguy
02-14-2009, 12:39 PM
Bush was never the two-faced rat-bastard Obama is turning out to be . I was truely willing to give the man a chance too . Hasn't been but a little over three weeks now and he's lost what little respect I ever had for him . Just as I expected , he's allowed his POS puppit masters to ram their agenda up his nose and he's spitting it out all over everyone . This bill will fail , our kids and grandkids will pay dearly , and its completely , 100% HIS fault .

i beg to differ with that statement, bush hid behind the right to life and morality issues, he got the patriot act passed, banned internet gambling, and on the otherside aproved bancrupcy bills that was in favor of banks, got people to stop gambling on horseracing and internet in favor of gambling on stock markets. under his administration they allowed dirextional shares and double bang etf's to exist to clean people out of their retirement accounts.

he is just as bad, just a little bit more cute.

Marshall Bennett
02-14-2009, 01:00 PM
i beg to differ with that statement, bush hid behind the right to life and morality issues, he got the patriot act passed, banned internet gambling, and on the otherside aproved bancrupcy bills that was in favor of banks, got people to stop gambling on horseracing and internet in favor of gambling on stock markets. under his administration they allowed dirextional shares and double bang etf's to exist to clean people out of their retirement accounts.

he is just as bad, just a little bit more cute.
I don't recall anyone bitching about their retirement accounts when the dow climbed to 14,000 , well into his tenure .

JustRalph
02-14-2009, 01:14 PM
or 57 straight months of GDP growth

lamboguy
02-14-2009, 01:26 PM
I don't recall anyone bitching about their retirement accounts when the dow climbed to 14,000 , well into his tenure .

do you think these people that had their retirement accounts at dow 14k got out or were they still in for the ride?

BlueShoe
02-14-2009, 01:37 PM
"A lie told often enough becomes the truth".
"The goal of Socialism is Communism".
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation".
"The best way to destroy the Capitalist system is to debauch the currency".

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

lamboguy
02-14-2009, 01:42 PM
"A lie told often enough becomes the truth".
"The goal of Socialism is Communism".
"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation".
"The best way to destroy the Capitalist system is to debauch the currency".

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

that is a sure way to take us down, put the people on their knees financially and control them politically.

it's a bad scene for sure if you love this country

Tom
02-14-2009, 03:06 PM
Obama has come closer to realizing Osama's dream of destroying our economy. Those who call for Osama's head should reconsider who our real enemy is. He is in Chicago this weekend.

JustRalph
02-14-2009, 03:20 PM
do you think these people that had their retirement accounts at dow 14k got out or were they still in for the ride?

smart ones did

witchdoctor
02-15-2009, 03:38 PM
I was talking to an administrator at the hospital who was telling me how the stimulus bill would effect them. His biggest concern was the COBRA provision. This is an UNFUNDED mandate and the employer is going to have to pay part of the premium which is going to cost them 2-3 million dollars a year. Fortunately, we are in good enough financial state that we can weather this. It could be a problem for businesses that could be on the boarder of failure.

Something about the idea of the stimulus program seems like it was put together by someone who says "I can't be broke, I still have checks left."

Tom
02-15-2009, 04:29 PM
Bottom line, the bill will hurt more businesses and destroy more jobs than it will create. It was a bad bill, and will do no good. It was only the first of more. It is not a stimulus bill, it is a spend and pork bill, no what lies the president tells you - Obama is nothing but a liar, so consider the source. He relies on weak minds and ignorance, so you just know he has strong support here.

PaceAdvantage
02-15-2009, 10:39 PM
do you think these people that had their retirement accounts at dow 14k got out or were they still in for the ride?Who the hell ever implied the stock market was a place where people NEVER lost money?

The equity and futures markets are JUNGLES. They are pure capitalism in motion, survival of the FITTEST. You are GUARANTEED NOTHING and have to work for EVERYTHING. If you lose money, it's your own damn fault, including those who put EVERYTHING into Madoff or whatever other scam artist if the flavor of the month.

I don't get people these days. It's as if America NEVER suffered an "off" economy before, and America is now a place where NOBODY should EVER lose any money!!!! :lol:

What is going on here?

witchdoctor
02-15-2009, 10:50 PM
I don't get people these days. It's as if America NEVER suffered an "off" economy before, and America is now a place where NOBODY should EVER lose any money!!!! :lol:

What is going on here?

Mike

You know what is happening. We are entitled. The government (or is it Big Brother)will take care of us. :bang:

lamboguy
02-15-2009, 10:53 PM
i am the first to tell you, the job of the markets is to take the most amount of money away from the most amount of people in the shortest amount of time.

95% of all people betting on the markets get cleaned out. even mutual funds catch you. its a game made for the house, and there is always someone on the otherside of your trade. the buy and hold strategy has busted many people out.

now pace, do you really think there are that many people out there that are astute as yourself in trading these markets? the one thing i am sure of is that you know is that the longer you hold any financial instrument the better shot you have of getting slamed.

during the bush administration they have promoted "long term capital gains". the capital gains are 15% of the win as long as you hold the baby for a year. in this market 5 minutes may be to long to hold a hot potato.

the people that used to bet high on sports and casino games over the internet are now forex traders. and etf traders, and direxional share traders.
all those intstuments have one thing in common, they have a lot of juice behind them.

do you really think an unsofisticated trader has a chance at that game?

how many people put there money into "safe investments" in their 401k's that have become 101k's?

answer: alot

Lefty
02-15-2009, 11:31 PM
The stock market is gambing, to be sure. But over time it has a 10% gain. My wife has a 401k and despite the fact that her company has stopped matching funds, we're still contributing to it. She has about 8 yrs before she can retire, so we're willing to take the gamble.

so.cal.fan
02-15-2009, 11:45 PM
Has anyone noticed she may have beginning Alzheimer's?
I'm serious.....she is half daft sometimes....doesn't make sense.
A couple of friends were talking about this the other day, one mentioned all the crazy statements she has made.
She may be losing her marbles. For real. :eek:

PaceAdvantage
02-16-2009, 01:38 AM
now pace, do you really think there are that many people out there that are astute as yourself in trading these markets? the one thing i am sure of is that you know is that the longer you hold any financial instrument the better shot you have of getting slamed.Believe me, I'm not all that astute.

PaceAdvantage
02-16-2009, 01:39 AM
Has anyone noticed she may have beginning Alzheimer's?
I'm serious.....she is half daft sometimes....doesn't make sense.
A couple of friends were talking about this the other day, one mentioned all the crazy statements she has made.
She may be losing her marbles. For real. :eek:It's about time someone other than McCain gets accused of this...

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 02:30 AM
Who the hell ever implied the stock market was a place where people NEVER lost money?

The equity and futures markets are JUNGLES. They are pure capitalism in motion, survival of the FITTEST. You are GUARANTEED NOTHING and have to work for EVERYTHING. If you lose money, it's your own damn fault, including those who put EVERYTHING into Madoff or whatever other scam artist if the flavor of the month.

I don't get people these days. It's as if America NEVER suffered an "off" economy before, and America is now a place where NOBODY should EVER lose any money!!!! :lol:

What is going on here?

What is happening is that most employers no longer offer retirement benefits. This loss has forced people to put money in 401(k)'s that employers make enticing by matching a percentage of an employee's contributions. As you said, employees are now GUANTEED NOTHING. People that would have never invested a dime in something they know little about or want no part of, are now stuck between a rock and a hard place.

That the prior administration wanted people to gamble with their Social Security check too is beyond pathetic. :mad: (I didn't want to let Tom down! :ThmbUp: )

PaceAdvantage
02-16-2009, 02:47 AM
What, they're not gambling with Social Security NOW? Come on man...nothing is guaranteed in this world. Even under Obama.

Investing does NOT guarantee a return, nor should it. I don't get where these people are beginning to think they are OWED something?

Who told these people to put ALL (or most) of their money into Madoff? Why would anyone do such a thing?

(I'll tell you the answer.....GREED!!)

JustRalph
02-16-2009, 07:29 AM
That the prior administration wanted people to gamble with their Social Security check too is beyond pathetic. :mad: (I didn't want to let Tom down! :ThmbUp: )

another liberal half truth. I have seen this everywhere since the market tanked.

The Bush plan would have only involved 2 percent of Social Security for any one person. And it would have not effected anyone over the age of 50 depending on which version went through. Not to mention in one version of the plan, it was completely voluntary.

cj's dad
02-16-2009, 07:38 AM
Slightly off topic but it was brought up this AM on a local radio station that the BO commemorative Half Dollars with BO's likeness which are being hawked on TV by Montel Williams as a must have for this historic event are really Kennedy Half dollars with an Obama decal pasted on top.

Cost = $19.95 + S&H.

What symbolism !!

Tom
02-16-2009, 07:44 AM
Hey NJ......how much of what I put into SS over the years do you suppose I will ever get back?

Right now, I still have 60% of my retirement fund left. With a chance to recover the rest.

JustRalph
02-16-2009, 08:06 AM
What symbolism !!

The perfect representation of the man

ezhillatl
02-16-2009, 08:50 AM
With your idea with a tax cut alone by the way with the last eight years where tried didnt work!!!! Where are losing about 700,000 jobs a month when you put in those who dont get empolyment benfits. That why the old head are losing way before Obama was even thought about> WAke up dude!!!!

cj's dad
02-16-2009, 09:59 AM
The next post; will you try speaking ENGLISH !!!



With your idea with a tax cut alone by the way with the last eight years where tried didnt work!!!! Where are losing about 700,000 jobs a month when you put in those who dont get empolyment benfits. That why the old head are losing way before Obama was even thought about> WAke up dude!!!!

Lefty
02-16-2009, 11:43 AM
ezh, how many times do it has to be explained that tax cuts didn't cause this problem. The people got more money and they stimulated the economy. More money came into Treasury Coffers than the previous admin. None of you, have explained to me how having MORE money caused this problem.
Bad loans to people who couldn't pay, and greedy unions caused this problem. Car companies have more people drawing a big retirement than they do working.
In these bad times, the unions not willing to comprimise. Yesterday, the UAW walked out on talks with GM. Just a bunch of patriots. Also, the congress, voted themselves a raise. They gripe about corporations, and ceo salaries and vote themselves a raise.
If Obama had just cut payroll taxes, corp taxes and capital gains tax instead of this dumbass spending pkg, we'd be out of this mess in no time. They are gonna follow this spendingf pkg with an even bigger one. So now, there's no end in sight.

delayjf
02-16-2009, 11:48 AM
What is happening is that most employers no longer offer retirement benefits. This loss has forced people to put money in 401(k)'s that employers make enticing by matching a percentage of an employee's contributions.
Why do you feel that its your employers job to take care of your retirement. That what I hate about the liberal mindset - they could build monuments to their sense of entitlement.

35 MILLION as part of the stimulus bill to protect the habitat of an endangered MOUSE species.

35 MILLION to guard some rates- what are they going to do hire Blackwater??? :bang:

Lefty
02-16-2009, 11:53 AM
Right, delay. The matching funds was a bonus the companies offered when things were good.
Madoff had the second largest Ponzi scheme in history. The Federal govt operates the biggest Ponzi Scheme. It's called Social Security.

lamboguy
02-16-2009, 12:02 PM
Right, delay. The matching funds was a bonus the companies offered when things were good.
Madoff had the second largest Ponzi scheme in history. The Federal govt operates the biggest Ponzi Scheme. It's called Social Security.

i am not sure lefty, but i think they have even a bigger ponzi deal than the social security, its called selling treasury bonds to china. i just wonder why would china actually buy up the debt of this country knowing ahead of time that they are not going to get paid back?

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 01:28 PM
What, they're not gambling with Social Security NOW? Come on man...nothing is guaranteed in this world. Even under Obama.

Investing does NOT guarantee a return, nor should it. I don't get where these people are beginning to think they are OWED something?

Who told these people to put ALL (or most) of their money into Madoff? Why would anyone do such a thing?

(I'll tell you the answer.....GREED!!)

Just curious, PA. Do you know somebody who has not received a SS check due them since SS was introduced in 1934? Your 'sky is falling' is opinion based on what? I can't find it in the PP's.

I agree 100% about the Madoff investors.

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 01:38 PM
another liberal half truth. I have seen this everywhere since the market tanked.

The Bush plan would have only involved 2 percent of Social Security for any one person. And it would have not effected anyone over the age of 50 depending on which version went through. Not to mention in one version of the plan, it was completely voluntary.

Bush's plan was a loser. Why do you think AARP was deadset against it?

The question you should be asking yourself is why Bush was for it? SS may run out of funds in 2040. Yet Bush made privatization his first big project of his second term? Gimme a break, JustRalph.:rolleyes:

riskman
02-16-2009, 02:32 PM
Why do you feel that its your employers job to take care of your retirement. That what I hate about the liberal mindset - they could build monuments to their sense of entitlement.

I agree. This also applies to military, Federal ,State and City Governments or are they exceptions under your way of thinking? Everyone who woks should take of themselves. Correct?

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 02:42 PM
Hey NJ......how much of what I put into SS over the years do you suppose I will ever get back?

Right now, I still have 60% of my retirement fund left. With a chance to recover the rest.

Figure you contributed (paid or pay) about 6% of your wages to SS during your working life if you are not self-employed. (If you were self-employed, you paid around 12% on your net profit (after all deductions). So somebody who averages $50,000 in wages for 35 years contributed the following in SS taxes:

$50,000 x 35 = $1,750,000 x 6% = $105,000

The average life expectency in the US is 78 (men and women combined). Assuming you are eligible to collect SS at 66 (it's 65 currently and 67 if you were born in 1960 or later), you will receive at least the average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker which is is about $1,153* in 2009.

$1,153 x 12 = $13,836 per year in SS benefits

Since we can assume you collect SS for 12 years based on life expectency:

12 years x $13,836 per year = $166,032 in SS benefits paid out in a lifetime

So there's your answer, Tom. you should get back well over 100% of your SS contributions if you live to normal life expectency (which is only going to go up in future years).

Still, I wish you luck with the retirement fund.:ThmbUp:

* http://www.denverpost.com/theeconomy/ci_11611311

Tom
02-16-2009, 02:44 PM
SS may run out of funds in 2040. Yet Bush made privatization his first big project of his second term? Gimme a break, JustRalph.:rolleyes:

Duh.
That means people contributing at the time were never going to see a cent of that money from SS. What, you want him to wait they all have put in 50 grand for nothing?

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 02:50 PM
ezh, how many times do it has to be explained that tax cuts didn't cause this problem. The people got more money and they stimulated the economy. More money came into Treasury Coffers than the previous admin. None of you, have explained to me how having MORE money caused this problem.

Lefty, you continue to ignore two big reasons why "More money came into Treasury Coffers than the previous admin".

Namely, inflation and our population explosion. Everybody has a higher tax base and there are more of us.

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 03:07 PM
Duh.
That means people contributing at the time were never going to see a cent of that money from SS. What, you want him to wait they all have put in 50 grand for nothing?

The key word is "may". As in it may run out of funds. SS has not run out of funds ever since 1934. It came close in 1982 but the fact is nobody missed a check.

If SS can deliver from 1934 through 2009, I think we can find a way to get it through another 75 years. But then I'm an optimistic SOB! Unlike the GOP! :lol:

Floyd
02-16-2009, 03:07 PM
Why do you feel that its your employers job to take care of your retirement. That what I hate about the liberal mindset - they could build monuments to their sense of entitlement.


Actually, I feel that it's my employers' job to take care of my retirement because when they hired me, as part of my compensation package, they signed a contract stating that they would provide me with a pension. That is just as much a part of my compensation package as my paycheck is.
That's what I hate about the neo-con mindset, they could build monuments to their self-serving hypocrisy.

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 03:13 PM
Madoff had the second largest Ponzi scheme in history. The Federal govt operates the biggest Ponzi Scheme. It's called Social Security.

SS invests contributions received from workers in government securities. These investments insure the SS fund does not run out of money and does not need further funding from other sources. You can read about it here if you care to:

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html#n2

delayjf
02-16-2009, 03:27 PM
That's what I hate about the neo-con mindset, they could build monuments to their self-serving hypocrisy.
Well good for you. But what percentage of US employees have a signed contract expressly stating that the employer will provide the employee a pension? "Self Serving" isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?

delayjf
02-16-2009, 03:40 PM
SS invests contributions received from workers in government securities. These investments insure the SS fund does not run out of money and does not need further funding from other sources. You can read about it here if you care to:

While that's true, but what if those Government securities are worthless??When the Social Security system starts to falter due to insufficient contributions to pay for all the benefits of retiring baby-boomers, probably around 2017, it will start cashing those securities and will expect the U.S. Government to pay it back, with interest. The problem is, the government doesn't have the money.

Floyd
02-16-2009, 03:45 PM
Well good for you. But what percentage of US employees have a signed contract expressly stating that the employer will provide the employee a pension?
Looks like it went from 62% in 1979 to around 10% now. (http://www.ebri.org/pdf/publications/facts/0607fact.pdf)
How's that whole "Ownership Society" working out for you?

JustRalph
02-16-2009, 03:49 PM
Bush's plan was a loser. Why do you think AARP was deadset against it?

The question you should be asking yourself is why Bush was for it? SS may run out of funds in 2040. Yet Bush made privatization his first big project of his second term? Gimme a break, JustRalph.:rolleyes:

Amazing, you said all of that and didn't address any of my points.

What's new...huh?

delayjf
02-16-2009, 04:33 PM
I agree. This also applies to military, Federal ,State and City Governments or are they exceptions under your way of thinking? Everyone who woks should take of themselves. Correct?

In the military, you have to put in 20 years before the benefit kicks in. When it does you get 50% of your base pay. Short of that and you get zero. I'd be happy to pay for my own retirement and health care if the Gov agrees to pony up for all the overtime I put in, which would include all the deployments and 60 hr weeks - which are SOP by the way. I think the guys at Blackwater start at around 100k - sounds good to me. :ThmbUp:

Secretariat
02-16-2009, 04:49 PM
The stock market is gambing, to be sure. But over time it has a 10% gain. My wife has a 401k and despite the fact that her company has stopped matching funds, we're still contributing to it. She has about 8 yrs before she can retire, so we're willing to take the gamble.

Good luck Lefty, and I sincerely mean that. I wouldn't count on a 10% gain though.

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 05:36 PM
Amazing, you said all of that and didn't address any of my points.

What's new...huh?

Nothing. You insist Bush's SS privatization plans were misunderstood and I insist they were a risk not worth taking. Unless you don't need SS checks to begin with.

Tom
02-16-2009, 06:00 PM
Actually, I feel that it's my employers' job to take care of my retirement because when they hired me, as part of my compensation package, they signed a contract stating that they would provide me with a pension. That is just as much a part of my compensation package as my paycheck is.
That's what I hate about the neo-con mindset, they could build monuments to their self-serving hypocrisy.
So how is that contract different than the ones people signed to repay mortgages and then defaulted on?

Tom
02-16-2009, 06:05 PM
Figure you contributed (paid or pay) about 6% of your wages to SS during your working life if you are not self-employed. (If you were self-employed, you paid around 12% on your net profit (after all deductions). So somebody who averages $50,000 in wages for 35 years contributed the following in SS taxes:

$50,000 x 35 = $1,750,000 x 6% = $105,000

The average life expectency in the US is 78 (men and women combined). Assuming you are eligible to collect SS at 66 (it's 65 currently and 67 if you were born in 1960 or later), you will receive at least the average monthly Social Security benefit for a retired worker which is is about $1,153* in 2009.

$1,153 x 12 = $13,836 per year in SS benefits

Since we can assume you collect SS for 12 years based on life expectency:

12 years x $13,836 per year = $166,032 in SS benefits paid out in a lifetime

So there's your answer, Tom. you should get back well over 100% of your SS contributions if you live to normal life expectency (which is only going to go up in future years).

Still, I wish you luck with the retirement fund.:ThmbUp:

* http://www.denverpost.com/theeconomy/ci_11611311

Where does the money come from? There is none in the account and we have a 55 trillion dollar deficit in promises. It WILL run out...it HAS run out.
But using your example, hands down putting all that money in real investments would yield far more.

Floyd
02-16-2009, 06:09 PM
So how is that contract different than the ones people signed to repay mortgages and then defaulted on?
One would be an employment contract and the other would be a loan contract.

boxcar
02-16-2009, 06:47 PM
One would be an employment contract and the other would be a loan contract.

And both, smarty pants, = a binding contract. Therefore, in this sense there is no difference.

Boxcar

Floyd
02-16-2009, 07:07 PM
And both, smarty pants, = a binding contract. Therefore, in this sense there is no difference.

Boxcar
...and the point being?

lamboguy
02-16-2009, 07:11 PM
my prediction is that if they let this thread live it will break every single record on pace advantage for number of post's.

boxcar
02-16-2009, 07:26 PM
...and the point being?

If you have to ask, then the fog you're in is so thick that it can't be cut.

Boxcar

Floyd
02-16-2009, 07:31 PM
my prediction is that if they let this thread live it will break every single record on pace advantage for number of post's.
See what we can accomplish together when we cooperate? Strength in numbers! E Pluribus Unum!

Floyd
02-16-2009, 07:43 PM
If you have to ask, then the fog you're in is so thick that it can't be cut.

Boxcar
Step it up a little, Boxcar.

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 07:43 PM
Where does the money come from? There is none in the account and we have a 55 trillion dollar deficit in promises. It WILL run out...it HAS run out.
But using your example, hands down putting all that money in real investments would yield far more.

I knew you weren't listening! :p

I posted this on the previous page of this thread:

SS invests contributions received from workers [and their employers] in government securities. These investments insure the SS fund does not run out of money and does not need further funding from other sources. You can read about it here if you care to:

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html#n2

chickenhead
02-16-2009, 08:00 PM
SS invests contributions received from workers in government securities. These investments insure the SS fund does not run out of money and does not need further funding from other sources.

The government only has two sources of money to pay back those securities that the fund has invested in, tax dollars and the printing press. It's accounting gimmickry to say a fund even exists..the entirety of the money in the SS trust fund has been spent.

The fact that the gov't has given an IOU against it means little, the people the gov't borrowed from (us) are the same people the gov't will have to tax (either explicitly or implicitly) to pay it back.

The government will never run out of money, they own the presses, and they can tax as much of our GDP as they can get away with. That isn't actually a solution to anything, however.

Lefty
02-16-2009, 08:24 PM
lamby, you're post suggests you don't have a clue what a ponzi scheme is.

stinks, When SS was started we had about 80 workers for every 1 retiree. That number much less, now and will conyinue to dwindle unil it collapses under its own weight. A classic Ponzi scheme.

I tell my kids and grandkids to make invets in their retirement now, because SS prob won't be there for them.

lamboguy
02-16-2009, 08:47 PM
lamby, you're post suggests you don't have a clue what a ponzi scheme is.

stinks, When SS was started we had about 80 workers for every 1 retiree. That number much less, now and will conyinue to dwindle unil it collapses under its own weight. A classic Ponzi scheme.

I tell my kids and grandkids to make invets in their retirement now, because SS prob won't be there for them.

i agreed on ss being a pozi scheme, i just said that selling the debt overseas might be bigger. other than that i am cluesless about alot of things and i don't spell that great, and neither do i handicap that well either!

Lefty
02-16-2009, 08:58 PM
lamby, Don't feel bad about the spelling. I am a great speller but my fingers don't always type what my brain tells me. King of the typos, that's me.

boxcar
02-16-2009, 09:01 PM
Step it up a little, Boxcar.

I would...but then you'd fall even farther behind and become irrevocably lost.

Boxcar

Floyd
02-16-2009, 09:13 PM
I would...but then you'd fall even farther behind and become irrevocably lost.

Boxcar

C'mon, Boxcar, we can't set a record if you don't even pull your own weight!
Bring your "A" game, we've got work to do!

NJ Stinks
02-16-2009, 09:32 PM
The government only has two sources of money to pay back those securities that the fund has invested in, tax dollars and the printing press. It's accounting gimmickry to say a fund even exists..the entirety of the money in the SS trust fund has been spent.

The fact that the gov't has given an IOU against it means little, the people the gov't borrowed from (us) are the same people the gov't will have to tax (either explicitly or implicitly) to pay it back.

The government will never run out of money, they own the presses, and they can tax as much of our GDP as they can get away with. That isn't actually a solution to anything, however.

Chickenhead - and I say that respectfully :) - no matter where you expect your retirement income to come from, you are relying on the US government to come through if your bank or financial institution fails (insured by FDIC and all that). Or you can worry that a foreign bank doesn't fail if that's where you put your money.

You can worry until the cows come home about something you can't control. I prefer thinking positively about the USA. It causes less stress.

boxcar
02-16-2009, 09:38 PM
C'mon, Boxcar, we can't set a record if you don't even pull your own weight!
Bring your "A" game, we've got work to do!

"We"? Gotta mouse in your pocket, do ya?

Boxcar

chickenhead
02-16-2009, 09:52 PM
You can worry until the cows come home about something you can't control. I prefer thinking positively about the USA. It causes less stress.

Lots of people hope positive thinking will keep everything chugging right along, I wish them luck. It's probably the defining characteristic of our country today.

I'll stick with attempting to be prepared as best I can, I actually find that less stressful than relying on hope, though likely it won't make much difference.

Floyd
02-16-2009, 09:56 PM
"We"? Gotta mouse in your pocket, do ya?

Boxcar
Nope. Just happy to see you.

timp
02-17-2009, 12:03 AM
You tell them boss agree with you 100%

boxcar
02-17-2009, 12:22 AM
Lots of people hope positive thinking will keep everything chugging right along, I wish them luck. It's probably the defining characteristic of our country today.

I'll stick with attempting to be prepared as best I can, I actually find that less stressful than relying on hope, though likely it won't make much difference.

Smart man, Chick, 'cause "hope" ain't gonna get you through the really tough times that are dead ahead. I suppose it's okay to hope for the best, but pragmatically to actually prepare for the worst.

Boxcar

gopony
02-17-2009, 12:32 AM
Where does the money come from? There is none in the account and we have a 55 trillion dollar deficit in promises. It WILL run out...it HAS run out.
But using your example, hands down putting all that money in real investments would yield far more.

Yeah, we could invest it in some of those AAA bonds from Citigroup or Merrill Lynch.

:lol:

Or maybe some Treasury Notes.

:lol::lol:

boxcar
02-17-2009, 01:27 AM
Nope. Just happy to see you.

As you rightfully should be; but that doesn't mean I want to partner up with you, pardner. ;)

Boxcar

Floyd
02-17-2009, 10:54 AM
As you rightfully should be; but that doesn't mean I want to partner up with you, pardner. ;)

Boxcar

Good move on your part. You can't lose if you don't play!

boxcar
02-17-2009, 11:16 AM
Good move on your part. You can't lose if you don't play!

You would have done better if you had added: ...on the losing team.

Boxcar

Floyd
02-17-2009, 12:20 PM
You would have done better if you had added: ...on the losing team.

Boxcar

I didn't want to rub your nose in it.

boxcar
02-17-2009, 12:34 PM
I didn't want to rub your nose in it.

Quit flattering yourself. You don't have what it takes to do that.

Boxcar

Floyd
02-17-2009, 12:47 PM
Quit flattering yourself. You don't have what it takes to do that.

Boxcar

Then what's that all over your nose, little fella?

boxcar
02-17-2009, 12:57 PM
Then what's that all over your nose, little fella?

What you think you see is only the product of your overworked, stressed out imagination.

Boxcar

Floyd
02-17-2009, 01:03 PM
What you think you see is only the product of your overworked, stressed out imagination.

Boxcar
And you said you weren't gonna play....

boxcar
02-17-2009, 01:19 PM
And you said you weren't gonna play....

You're mistaken again; for playing suggests competing. Surely you don't think you qualify as competition? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

JustRalph
02-17-2009, 01:53 PM
Time Out!!!

Time Out!!!


Let's move on please................... :bang:

Floyd
02-17-2009, 02:08 PM
Time Out!!!

Time Out!!!


Let's move on please................... :bang:

Oh, cmon. We were this close, THIS CLOSE I tell you, to the "I'm rubber, you're glue" gambit.
Since you got that badge, Ralph, you're no fun at all.

mostpost
02-17-2009, 06:56 PM
Time Out!!!

Time Out!!!


Let's move on please................... :bang:

I agree with JustRalph.
Nice going Floyd, you made me agree with JustRalph. Arrggghhh.

Floyd
02-17-2009, 07:08 PM
I agree with JustRalph.
Nice going Floyd, you made me agree with JustRalph. Arrggghhh.
Oh, jeez. I'm sorry.
It was just so much fun to play Poke the Fascist.

JustRalph
02-17-2009, 09:11 PM
I agree with JustRalph.
Nice going Floyd, you made me agree with JustRalph. Arrggghhh.

Come over to the Dark Side.........http://icons.iconarchive.com/icons/artua/star-wars/Darth-Vader-icon.jpg ........ :lol:

boxcar
02-17-2009, 10:54 PM
Oh, jeez. I'm sorry.

Yes, you are one sorry dude --more than you'll ever realize.


It was just so much fun to play Poke the Fascist.

Ah...so that's what you were up to -- engaging in a little solitaire-like fun. With all that heavy pokin' and proddin' (probably in unspeakable places, too), I hope you didn't bring any irreparable harm to yourself.

Boxcar