Mike Watchmaker

[cees with dees]

This is a perfect example as to why this guy is completely incompetent.
He has this theory that horses that run in the Dubai World Cup don't come back to the U.S the same and he used Curlin as an example.
The two races Curlin lost on return were on synthetic and grass and Watchmaker said Curlin was all out to beat Wanderin Boy and that Darley thing who's name escapes me.
A little news for you Mike. The aforementioned race that Curlin won, the leader completely bottomed the field and with several other closers in the race, Curlin was the only horse to make up ground. Looked like a great effort to me.
The question of the decade is: when will any station get a handicapper that has a reasonable opinion???
Ben

[the little guy]

The question of the decade is: when will any station get a handicapper that has a reasonable opinion???
Ben


I laughed.

[ralph_the_cat]

first of all, its only normal for a horse that goes through the effort of going to Dubai and back, or similar situations that horses go through can cause stress and its normal for a horse to get knocked down a bit after the effort, but its nothing new,nor worth spewing over like Mike Watchmaker, theres plenty of horses out there that can handle it just fine, Curlin handled it fine IMO, and I agree that trip isnt the reason why he got beat... Mike had Todd Pletcher on the show via phone about a year or more ago, and instead of asking legit questions, he brought up this topic to Todd, Todd had that horse, forget its name, that he ran over there, and Mike and his big mouth drilled the point across to Todd that if the horse was a "bigger earner" that Todd wouldnt have made the trip, because he would worry the effort would take too much out of the horse, by the end of the show, Todd just agreed, but I could tell by his voice, he was a little pissed at Mike and his mouth, legit point? yes, BUT Overstated by Mike... YES< the loud mouth prick needs to chill, all he ever talks about is the Dubai bounce... shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jballscalls]

part of being a handicapper and a gambler is being wrong......alot. I'm sure 'completely incompetant" is a bit of a strong label.

[ralph_the_cat]

part of being a handicapper and a gambler is being wrong......alot. I'm sure 'completely incompetant" is a bit of a strong label.

you brought up before that you didnt watch much tv didnt you, or maybe you dont even have a tv right now?... I ask you, have you ever seen Mike Watchmaker on tv?... I dont rip on TVG guys at all, some I find to be entertaining, but Mike Watchmaker is a loud mouth know-it-all-but-really-knows-little-jerk... Im sure hes good at something, just not tvg stuff...

[cj's dad]

part of being a handicapper and a gambler is being wrong......alot. I'm sure 'completely incompetant" is a bit of a strong label.

You guys in the biz sure do stick together (TLG excluded)- can we agree on 90 % incompetent ?

I put MW right up there with Hammerin' Hank Goldberg - who does this guy know ??

[Track Collector]

Guys, the solution is quite simple. If the talking heads annoy you, simply change the sound on your computer/tv to mute. Or if you do leave the sound on, just think of it as a comedy routine. After all, YOU have the power to decide what you listen to. :bang:

While it works for me, none of my handicapping decisions are based on or influenced by what any of these people have to say.

[the little guy]

You guys in the biz sure do stick together (TLG excluded)- can we agree on 90 % incompetent ?



My comment was directed at the line that no station has a competent handicapper.....and nothing else.

[cj's dad]

You miss my point which is that most on here who are in the business will not criticize a fellow announcer/h'capper, etc...you have been critical of others who are "in the biz" and I find that refreshing.

My comment was directed at the line that no station has a competent handicapper.....and nothing else.

[BUD]

whats the big deal if we disagree..

Maybe in a year or 2 I will develop my biases and dislikes-------

And I knew for certain no show had any handicappers on..I Think I would quit handicapping The horses, watch The odds board after The talking head has been on and handicap The public handicapper..

God Bless anyone freekin nuts enough to put themselves on the line race in and out day in and out---------

Sire excluded from that---he sends me his picks daily-------He gets my gratitude not my wrath..

[SMOO]

I put MW right up there with Hammerin' Hank Goldberg - who does this guy know ??

Good point.

[bitter]

i agree, but DRF gives this guy a long leash and they seem to promote him pretty reuguarlly. I think the guy just wastes air and time with his races of the week column in the DRF for the weekend stakes, and when i saw he was a rep for drf @ the NHC i was laughing my ass off, i don't think he's a good capper and i don't read his work but the guy just goes out on a limb and prays he's right more often then not, i would rather just throw darts

[toetoe]

Catralph,

Can we get to the nitty gritty ? Watchmaker deliberately tries to make his hair worse than Steve Crist's ( :eek: ). I repeat, WHO wants it more ?

[whyhorseofcourse]

IMHO Mike should take the ear ring out of his ear.
Not sure the point of it, but my opinion of him would be much higher if it was not there.

[OTM Al]

Since Mike does appear on TVG I will take it that this is a tangential TVG bashing thread and assume it must be February already.....

[slewis]

A wealthy friend of mine who plays the ponies (and who I used to give a lot of solid plays to) told me that my handicapping, like the US economy, had recently gone very bad.


As a gift, he told me that he arranged a dinner for me with a renowned handicapper of which I would be able to ask any questions on racing and handicapping, thus getting my game back on track.

I told him "Great! , Jessica Pacheco"? .."No", he said.. "Mike Watchmaker".

Guess I too will be needing a large bailout.:lol:

[cj]

Since Mike does appear on TVG I will take it that this is a tangential TVG bashing thread and assume it must be February already.....

That is a stretch, don't you think?

I wouldn't want to have to give my opinion on races publicly, especially when I may not have a strong one, but even so Mike's opinion leaves a lot to be desired.

[JustRalph]

Lately he has grown on me for being a loud voice for the "Horseplayer"

I posted a note about it around here somewhere......he talked about M Gill etc.......... I never really paid attention to his handicapping......... then again I don't pay attention to anybody on TV's capping...........

[rrbauer]

These, let's piss on someone, threads amuse me. They don't make anyone any money. They don't advance the handicapping process. And, they appear to appeal to people who, simply put, have too much time on their hands. 1 min 35 sec. wasted in my response!

[Lasix67]

I'm not a big WM fan either, but when you have to talk over Matt C. on the same show, well I guess I would get loud too.
I really wish there was an educational and informative show either on tv or maybe satellite radio that would have some talent that I could get into. I actually enjoy a couple of HRTV's host at times and even though he's dry, I have learned alot of angles by watching Rich P. when he's on TVG in the morning and he explains his handicapping lunch box contents. He turned me on to an outstanding book written by Mark Cramer called Kinky Handicapping, which I think is very difficult to find, but if you can get your hands on it then do so.

[point given]

You guys in the biz sure do stick together (TLG excluded)- can we agree on 90 % incompetent ?

I put MW right up there with Hammerin' Hank Goldberg - who does this guy know ??
Steve Crist i believe .

[Lasix67]

I never play talking heads selections for the simple reason this game is para-mutual and why would anyone want to give plays out to the broad audience if there professional handicappers. Are we all playing against one another and the take out?

[Grits]

IMHO Mike should take the ear ring out of his ear.
Not sure the point of it, but my opinion of him would be much higher if it was not there.

For some reason, this would have, probably, the very least to do with my opinion of this man. I just don't get that an earring could carry this much weight.

Now, if he gave out $20+ horses on a regular basis, he could have an earring through his nose and I'd still be watching and listening. Anytime!

[the little guy]

I never play talking heads selections for the simple reason this game is para-mutual and why would anyone want to give plays out to the broad audience if there professional handicappers. Are we all playing against one another and the take out?


Some of us like our jobs and they're happy giving out their selections.

[jballscalls]

You guys in the biz sure do stick together (TLG excluded)- can we agree on 90 % incompetent ?

I put MW right up there with Hammerin' Hank Goldberg - who does this guy know ??

We do stick together.........on the boards. If i disagree or don't like someone in the industry i surely wont say so on a forum board. I'll just remain silent. Big believer in if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. "Don't poo poo where you eat"

My original point was that there is obviously something to be said for the Dubai bounce, but obviously many horses have bucked the trend. I just didn't think "completely incompetant" was a good term for someone who just has a differing opinion.

[the little guy]

The bottom line is that the next best thing to being loved is being hated.....it's when nobody notices you that you are superfluous. If I were Watch, I would be happier that people were writing about how much I sucked than paying no attention to me at all. At least the person who started this thread, and others, read what he writes. Better than being ignored.

[PaceAdvantage]

I put MW right up there with Hammerin' Hank Goldberg - who does this guy know ??In the words of one John McEnroe -- You can NOT be serious!?!?!

Hammerin Hank is in a class all by himself. NOBODY can touch him...nobody...

[cj]

We do stick together.........on the boards. If i disagree or don't like someone in the industry i surely wont say so on a forum board. I'll just remain silent. Big believer in if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. "Don't poo poo where you eat"

My original point was that there is obviously something to be said for the Dubai bounce, but obviously many horses have bucked the trend. I just didn't think "completely incompetant" was a good term for someone who just has a differing opinion.

I don't really agree about the Dubai bounce. I think many times things like that are just a convenient way for bettors and handicappers to explain away losses they don't understand. I am not trying to say it never contributes to a horse's condition, but all too often it is an easy excuse when there are other more subtle reasons to explain a poor performance.

[PaceAdvantage]

Like in Curlin's case...he was overrated and beat up on some really sucky fields as an older horse.

All the Big Brown haters are now going to come after me, but then again, BB came in last for HOY, behind even Zenyatta...but I digress...

[jballscalls]

I don't really agree about the Dubai bounce. .

which is just fine. This game is full of excuses and factors for why horses do run well or don't run well.

I"m not even a huge proponent of the dubai bounce theory, i just thought the initial post with "completely imcompetant" was a little excessive.

[cj]

I don't think Curlin really regressed at all after his trip.

9 Curlin 4yo c Ky 7-5 P 106/2 106

Bel 09/27/08 10.0 | 100 111 97 111 | 117| | 109*
Sar 08/30/08 9.0 | 133 107 122 107 | 100| | 111*
Beli 07/12/08 11.0 | 123 108 110 106 | 105| | 104
CD 06/14/08 9.0 | 103 108 99 108 | 113| | 108*
NAS 03/29/08 *10.0 | | | | X*
NAS 02/28/08 *10.0 | | | | 117*
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mth 10/27/07 10.0 | 116 119 113 119 | 123| | 120'*
Bel 09/30/07 10.0 | 114 115 112 115 | 117| | 117*
Mth 08/05/07 9.0 | 116 114 113 108 | 106| | 113
Bel 06/09/07 12.0 | 88 102 88 101 | 108| | 105'


His figures were lower, but I believe in each case (on dirt) it was because of the pace. The pace was very slow in June and September, making a fast figure nearly impossible to achieve. That was, as you say, because the competition was really bad. In the other dirt race, the pace was brutal. I'm sure that lowered his overall figure as well.

[BUD]

jessica--------andy and eric-I will throw jb into that trio-----the kid is entertaining----damned better than I----- the mountain couple---These are the best ive seen---OK I'm biased to Jess cause she is hot:p Then our NY team well the Wife thinks the little guy is Cute......I think the NY team is educational and fun......... The Mountain Couple they are good to---


But me I am boring----------I loathe pissing on the sport and people I love----Plus when you have limited time your perspective is all effed up---you turn out to be a better guy---when your time short, why waste it on being a ball buster

[Marshall Bennett]

I've always enjoyed listening to Watchmaker . Most of the time he makes a lot of sense . I'm not sure about Curlin though , I beleive that is more of a personel opinion of his , short of facts to back it up . I do however beleive he has a thorough knowledge of the racing industry .

[slewis]

[QUOTE=the little guy]The bottom line is that the next best thing to being loved is being hated.....QUOTE]

I know that feeling.:lol:

[the little guy]

I know that feeling.:lol:


I was going to ask you, until you changed the quote, which was harder on you.....being hated or being ignored.

[slewis]

I don't think Curlin really regressed at all after his trip.

9 Curlin 4yo c Ky 7-5 P 106/2 106

Bel 09/27/08 10.0 | 100 111 97 111 | 117| | 109*
Sar 08/30/08 9.0 | 133 107 122 107 | 100| | 111*
Beli 07/12/08 11.0 | 123 108 110 106 | 105| | 104
CD 06/14/08 9.0 | 103 108 99 108 | 113| | 108*
NAS 03/29/08 *10.0 | | | | X*
NAS 02/28/08 *10.0 | | | | 117*
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mth 10/27/07 10.0 | 116 119 113 119 | 123| | 120'*
Bel 09/30/07 10.0 | 114 115 112 115 | 117| | 117*
Mth 08/05/07 9.0 | 116 114 113 108 | 106| | 113
Bel 06/09/07 12.0 | 88 102 88 101 | 108| | 105'


His figures were lower, but I believe in each case (on dirt) it was because of the pace. The pace was very slow in June and September, making a fast figure nearly impossible to achieve. That was, as you say, because the competition was really bad. In the other dirt race, the pace was brutal. I'm sure that lowered his overall figure as well.

Dont know if this will paste:

Here is my data....... and I agree with you.

HorseDatepaceinfo ADistFigureInfo B TrackCURLIN9/27/20085gš11//4:1glue onSY 8/30/20086sqš11//82+fibpatchesF 7/12/2008T 13//8><5 F 6/14/200812 11//81 F 10/27/20011 11//4:1/2 SY 9/30/20075š11//42+ F 8/5/20076 11//83+ F 6/9/20079?11//24 F 5/19/2007PIM 13//63 F 5/5/200720 11//46 F

[slewis]

guess it didnt paste.....

[BlueShoe]

Rather like Mike W. and often catch "Blinkers Off"Every network needs at least one typical smart ass New Yorker.He does come up with some insightful comments,as does Matty.These guys broadcast on Friday AM and have to make selections for the weekend,without knowing track conditions,scratches,or odds.Not an easy task,guys.Believe that that for 2008 both MC and MW finished with a profit on their picks,which is quite admirable given the conditions.

[BUD]

AS we can not red board---

unless you put your picks out there so we can see and some can say they are genius or the work of fools---unless you earn that right----TLG the Watchmakers---The TVG'ers should be off limits the -----again unless you EARNED the right to criticize-----

Again criticizing without earning that right should be frowned upon as much as RED BOARDING just my opinion..

shoot I hope thats understandable.....

Thanks to the kind PM that gave my day that mojo again---I sooo appreciate it...

[OTM Al]

That is a stretch, don't you think?

I wouldn't want to have to give my opinion on races publicly, especially when I may not have a strong one, but even so Mike's opinion leaves a lot to be desired.

You've probably missed my monthly joke on TVG bashing so I understand how this flew over your head. I love Mike's columns as it tells me who the wise guy horse is and therefore which is probably best avoided. I do think he's far better at handicapping than people are giving him credit for.

[turfnsport]

Anyone that can tolerate spending 30 minutes a week with Matt Carothers, having every sentence interrupted and come back for more each week is okay in my book.

[miesque]

Am I the only one who thinks Joanne Jones...

Out of all of the on-air hosts/analysts at both TVG and HRTV that is the one that I have an issue with because there is something about that monotone voice of hers that goes on and on and on with little value added that it feels like pure torture. Everyone else I am fine with although I certainly do prefer some hosts/analysts over others, but that is the case with anything. I do realize that different people have different tastes, as is evident with the comments on this thread. I actually like watching Blinkers Off and Against the Odds each week, but I will also have to admit that Matt Carothers is my favorite TVG analyst and Jeff Siegel is my favorite HRTV analyst so I will obviously enjoy those shows more then someone who can't stand those guys.

[BlueShoe]

If you are not a fan of Joanne J. then be sure to miss the Fairplex meet in September.She is a major host,and her comments every race do get you thinking about a trip to the concession stand or about another track.However,she does seem like a nice lady personality wise.If you dont like Matty,then listening to "58 flat" would be torture.If you like him,then his 60 minutes of non stop yacking would be entertaining.

[jballscalls]

We had a race at PM recently where there was a horse named Foxy Lady running. So as they turned for home Foxy Lady started to reel in the longtime frontrunning leader. so me being a Jimi Hendrix fan said "and it's Blanding in front by 3 to Foxy Lady who says 'here i come baby, i'm coming to getcha!!'"

I figure everyone knows that song and especially that part of the song!! So HRTV shows the replay and afterwards JJ says "Well that was.......an interesting racecall" clearly not enjoying my sense of humor LOL I was so hurt!!

Luckily Kurt Hoover saved me and said "that was a great Jimi Hendrix reference" and she said "oh ok!!"

all that being said, Joanne gives us lots of good attention at PM on Wednesday, so she's cool in my book!

[classhandicapper]

The bottom line is that the next best thing to being loved is being hated.....it's when nobody notices you that you are superfluous. If I were Watch, I would be happier that people were writing about how much I sucked than paying no attention to me at all. At least the person who started this thread, and others, read what he writes. Better than being ignored.

I agree about being ignored, but not about being hated.

I hate being ignored because I think I've come up with a few original insights and techniques over the decades that others published or got credit for later on. I've also being hated on a few message boards for telling others how wrong they are and that's not fun either. ;)

[Grits]

I would stand Joanne Jones up against anyone at TVG or HRTV all day long. She's as, or more--knowledgable than any of the aforementioned. Its been noted before, she grew up in the game...........it ain't like she just walked in the door a couple of years ago.

As evidenced here, and at the DRF expo; she's good at her job. When all is said and done, the knowledge being more important than the voice.

I think she's sharp! And I respect her.

http://www.drf.com/expo/2007/speakerbios.html

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-32749.html

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-12375.html

Mike Watchmaker should, indeed, be flattered he's up to what 3 pages now?

Still, he's trailing the infamous Mike Gill who, on this website alone, is up to 3 threads of his own...............go figure. Somehow, there's something odd in this. A guy whose been in the game ALL his life, trailing to a guy whose ego needs stroking.

[Grits]

Madonna lamented long ago, the kiss of death is to be ignored.

Regardless how bad or how good the press.......you're dead if you're ignored.

[toetoe]

But first --- is she experienced ?

[cj]

I can see classhandicapper posted in the thread. Is it worthwhile? Should I take him off ignore?

[Tom]

Who???;)


Joanne Jones - truly a voice made for newspapers. She is the Matt of HRTV...both= volume down.

[Grits]

Tom, its kinda like being with an ugly woman. You can put a bag over her head. One for yourself too, in the event hers falls off. With an ugly voice, same deal.

You've got two options. Duct tape her mouth or put ear plugs in your ears . . . . . whichever you decide, bud, you're good to go.

Now, if she suffers both. You don't know how to pick 'em, and you'll have to work on that. ;) LOLOLLLLLLLLLL

Who???;)


Joanne Jones - truly a voice made for newspapers. She is the Matt of HRTV...both= volume down.