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View Full Version : Vaders loses appeal in PA Court


Nacumi
02-04-2009, 12:17 PM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/49072.htm

But the good news is, she's eligible to apply for a license elsewhere, and back in PA in a couple years. :bang:

sandpit
02-04-2009, 12:23 PM
From the article:

Jayne Vaders, the leading trainer at Philadelphia Park Casino & Racetrack in 2007, lost her appeal Jan. 9 in Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania for an indefinite ban from training due to multiple drug positives.

How can the sport have any credibility when this is the norm? Track mgmt, trainers, breeders, auction houses...none of them give a damn about the fans or the horses...:mad:

The Bit
02-04-2009, 01:00 PM
I just put a post up on my blog about this and couldn't agree with you guys more. I called it a small victory because the problem is obviously much large than just Vaders. She actually responded ( atleast claim to be her ) to a post I made about her last spring/winter.

My feeling is, and I've attended Delaware Racing Commission Meetings, is that they will do whatever it takes to keep people like her out. Just like they did to Mike Gill a few years ago. I really hope they do.

I cannot comment on Maryland, they are in a bad situation and keeping the sport going is probably the biggest concern they have right now.

jotb
02-04-2009, 01:37 PM
Vaders just in the month of Jan 09- 39 starts- 15 wins-7 place- 6 show. That's 38% win and 72% ITM. It looks like Edward Auwarter fills the spot for now.

Joe

Nacumi
02-04-2009, 01:56 PM
Vaders just in the month of Jan 09- 39 starts- 15 wins-7 place- 6 show. That's 38% win and 72% ITM. It looks like Edward Auwarter fills the spot for now.
Joe

Wonder if she left Auwarter the keys to her special medicine cabinet? :lol:
I guess those wins, seconds and shows will help pad her savings account as she moves to a new jurisdiction.

TonyK@HSH
02-04-2009, 07:43 PM
The person behind Vaders was John McCaslin who had his share of 'test' failures during his pretty successful training career. John is still in the barn so expect business as usual (although there may be a short term slowdown) for Ed Auwarter. John is an experienced horseman and knows his way around a horse.
As I see it (by being near the barn almost everyday) Ed is primarily a program trainer with John and the old staff conducting the day to day business. Unless owners decide to flee I believe Ed will enjoy a career year

TonyK

DrugS
02-04-2009, 09:14 PM
Vaders just in the month of Jan 09- 39 starts- 15 wins-7 place- 6 show. That's 38% win and 72% ITM. It looks like Edward Auwarter fills the spot for now.

Not bad - considering her training career started in the Mid 90's - and she lost with her first 56 starters.

PaceAdvantage
02-05-2009, 01:07 AM
Practice makes perfect....

I hear Kiaran is hitting 35% at the moment...according to some, anything over 18% means you're cheating...

DrugS
02-05-2009, 02:26 AM
I wouldn't agree with that at all - and I think win percentage can be a bit of an overrated stat.

Trainers can obviously achieve a high win percentage by aggressively placing horses - and overwhelming fields with superior stock.

IMO, the ones who have an edge are the trainers who consistantly improve new stock - and who consistantly achieve spectacular success from an ROI on the betting dollar standpoint ... though the latter is something that can be dulled over time due to some bettors sending it in on virtually every horse that one of these trainers starts.

For instance ... take a look at the trainer stats of David Wells at Charles Town.

Since '04 .. he is 104-for-256 (40.6% wins) with an ROI of $3.15

Basically, pretty otherworldly numbers. if you bet just $100 on each horse of his .. you'd be ahead $16,000.

Wells is the boyfriend of the great Mid-Atlantic alchemist Steph Beattie. Looking at her stats at Charles Town...

Since '04 .. she is just 280-for-803 (34.9% wins) with an ROI of $2.02

Even though horses running under the name of Wells or Steph Beattie are coming from the same stable ... the ones running under SB's name tend to get hammered by bettors while the ones running under DW's name don't. Until the last year or two anyway ... now everyone pretty much realizes they are the same thing.

In '04 and '05 Wells was 35-for-96 (36%) with a $4.32 ROI. Since that point - he's 69-for-161 (43%) with a $2.43 ROI ... so his win percentage has risen big .. but the ROI has taken a hit because finally have learned that he and Steph are together. Where in 2005 .. the average bettor would have told you that SB is the goddess of juice .. and DW is a fat guy who pitched a perfect game for the yankees.

This One's For Phil paid 11/1 going 1st time Dutrow. What is his price in that spot if O' Connell still was listed as the trainer? I think he's a 40/1 or 50/1 shot for her.

Besides the consistant form reversals and gaudy ROI's .. I think another sign of a trainer who is taking an edge is when a horse is claimed off of them or moved away from them ... and said horses consistantly tend to fall apart. Sometimes right away ... others might hang in there for a few races before vanishing from the planet.

NY BRED
02-05-2009, 05:52 AM
I've posted a possible solution before on this issue, and I'll try again.

If you disqualify the horse from its finishing position and demand reimbursement
from the owner(s) these issues could ultimately disappear, especially when the trainer is suspended.

I know this is a rough penalty to all parties, but it will not only create a level
playing field but will ultimately create a safer world for the Thooroughbred.

jotb
02-05-2009, 08:26 AM
Practice makes perfect....

I hear Kiaran is hitting 35% at the moment...according to some, anything over 18% means you're cheating...

I don't think you replied to me. Anyway, I only pointed out her stats because she lost the appeal on Jan 9th. These stats were just for the month of Jan 09. With all the problems that she was facing the horses were still crossing the finish line first at a good clip. I think Kiaran is winning at 27% this year but I could be wrong. I don't think everyone winning over 18% is automatically a cheater. However, when a trainer constantly wins over 30% of their races year in and year out, I would think it's more than just training involved. These type of trainer's have some type of edge. Owners can make a trainer's job much easier when they allow trainer's to jam their horses in spots where the horses just outclass the bunch. This helps trainer's to win many more races.

Some trainer's will not win many races just because of their owners. Many owners in the game are in denial when it comes to their stock. They think their horses are much better than they are. Their horse runs well for a MDN10K (maybe 4th) and then they run the horse in MSW company next out. Then you have owners that pressure the trainer into running the horse back too soon just because there's a race in the book. You don't run a horse when they need time between races. Then you have some owner's push the trainer to run a horse in a NW4L when the horse is eligible for a NW2L. If you don't think this happens, I would be more than willing to show examples. Then you have some owner's that will make the trainer run at a distance that he or she is not capable of getting. I witnessed a trainer that put a horse in (because of the owner) at the distance of 8.5F. The filly in her career never ran past 5F. The filly was running at the 4k level and getting beat pretty bad. Not only was she in at the 8.5F but she was in an ALW race. When owners and trainers do the things above it helps trainers like Beattie to win many more races.

Joe

Mineshaft
02-05-2009, 09:23 AM
I don't think you replied to me. Anyway, I only pointed out her stats because she lost the appeal on Jan 9th. These stats were just for the month of Jan 09. With all the problems that she was facing the horses were still crossing the finish line first at a good clip. I think Kiaran is winning at 27% this year but I could be wrong. I don't think everyone winning over 18% is automatically a cheater. However, when a trainer constantly wins over 30% of their races year in and year out, I would think it's more than just training involved. These type of trainer's have some type of edge. Owners can make a trainer's job much easier when they allow trainer's to jam their horses in spots where the horses just outclass the bunch. This helps trainer's to win many more races.

Some trainer's will not win many races just because of their owners. Many owners in the game are in denial when it comes to their stock. They think their horses are much better than they are. Their horse runs well for a MDN10K (maybe 4th) and then they run the horse in MSW company next out. Then you have owners that pressure the trainer into running the horse back too soon just because there's a race in the book. You don't run a horse when they need time between races. Then you have some owner's push the trainer to run a horse in a NW4L when the horse is eligible for a NW2L. If you don't think this happens, I would be more than willing to show examples. Then you have some owner's that will make the trainer run at a distance that he or she is not capable of getting. I witnessed a trainer that put a horse in (because of the owner) at the distance of 8.5F. The filly in her career never ran past 5F. The filly was running at the 4k level and getting beat pretty bad. Not only was she in at the 8.5F but she was in an ALW race. When owners and trainers do the things above it helps trainers like Beattie to win many more races.

Joe




Exactly 100% correct. It use to be i thought it was the trainers fault for running some of these horses where they were spotted but now im leaning towards the owners getting the final say. Basically there are some people either owners or trainers who have no clue where to spot there horses.

onefast99
02-05-2009, 09:48 AM
Interesting how fast everyone forgets Levines big splash at Monmouth this summer he was winning at a 60% clip. Seems since the state came in and took some samples he dropped off quite a bit.

supercap
02-05-2009, 12:17 PM
Practice makes perfect....

I hear Kiaran is hitting 35% at the moment...according to some, anything over 18% means you're cheating...

So are we to believe Kiaran is not a cheater? Maybe you can let us in on who does and doesnt. Let me know your formula for cheating!

cj
02-05-2009, 12:29 PM
Overall, he is winning at 20% with a 1.91 per $2 bet the last five years. In the last year, he is winning at 24%, but at a lower 1.80 ROI.

With new acquisitions the past five years, he is winning at 18% with an ROI of 1.67 per $2. In the past year, it is 10% with a horrid ROI of 0.64 per $2. I couldn't find a single new horse with a big move up.

DrugS
02-05-2009, 01:12 PM
Invasor for starters.

PaceAdvantage
02-05-2009, 06:55 PM
Just checked NTRA...McLaughlin is currently at 27%. The stat I saw posted a few days ago had him over 30%...I guess he had a few losers lately...

Anyway, my reply was aimed at the two who claimed that anyone over 18% and anyone over 30% was obviously cheating.

Do I think McLaughlin is cheating? Absolutely not.

But I would like to hear from the guys who posted that over 18 or over 30 is an automatic black mark.

supercap
02-05-2009, 09:59 PM
Just checked NTRA...McLaughlin is currently at 27%. The stat I saw posted a few days ago had him over 30%...I guess he had a few losers lately...

Anyway, my reply was aimed at the two who claimed that anyone over 18% and anyone over 30% was obviously cheating.

Do I think McLaughlin is cheating? Absolutely not.

But I would like to hear from the guys who posted that over 18 or over 30 is an automatic black mark.

Thanks for clarifying

jotb
02-06-2009, 06:27 AM
Just checked NTRA...McLaughlin is currently at 27%. The stat I saw posted a few days ago had him over 30%...I guess he had a few losers lately...

Anyway, my reply was aimed at the two who claimed that anyone over 18% and anyone over 30% was obviously cheating.

Do I think McLaughlin is cheating? Absolutely not.

But I would like to hear from the guys who posted that over 18 or over 30 is an automatic black mark.

You had to check the NTRA for his stat. Don't you trust me? LOL

Joe

PaceAdvantage
02-06-2009, 06:41 PM
You had to check the NTRA for his stat. Don't you trust me? LOL

JoeWithout a doubt...trust but verify! :lol:

JAMES GILL
02-08-2009, 03:23 AM
mr bit . Mike was held back from stalls not raceing .,because he claimed the horses to excessive ,to meet there game ,

He later purchased a farm near delware and ran his horses there . again read up your behind times way behind

phatbastard
02-08-2009, 05:33 AM
so now, eddie auwater has become an overnight genius at training horses...Dr John M has an eye for talented trainers i guess...jeez this guy has been knocking around forever.....

timp
02-13-2009, 07:00 PM
TONY K PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE ENVIOUS WISH YOU HAD THE JOB HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PUT IT MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR OWN HORSES MAYBE THEY WOULD RUN BETTER

jotb
02-14-2009, 09:32 AM
so now, eddie auwater has become an overnight genius at training horses...Dr John M has an eye for talented trainers i guess...jeez this guy has been knocking around forever.....

All of a sudden Auwater wins 5 races halfway through the month of Feb. Auwater didn't win a race in 2007 and only win 2 in 2008. He's won 67 races since 1999. If he continue's winning at this clip, I'm pretty sure he will produce more than 67 wins by year's end. What a joke!

Joe

lamboguy
02-14-2009, 09:41 AM
mike auerwater+jayne vayders----------the ghost of johnnie mccaslin has appeared!!

Nacumi
02-14-2009, 06:48 PM
That ghost looked pretty solid in the paddock today, as he has all the other times Mr. Auwarter has 'saddled' a winner in the past two weeks. :confused:
Business as usual, as in monkey, at the PHA. In any other legitimate racing jurisdiction, this stuff wouldn't be tolerated. :bang:

proximity
02-14-2009, 07:53 PM
TONY K PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE ENVIOUS WISH YOU HAD THE JOB...

TONY K FRONTING FOR A JUICE TRAINER??:lol:

TonyK@HSH
02-14-2009, 10:04 PM
TONY K PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE ENVIOUS WISH YOU HAD THE JOB HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PUT IT MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR OWN HORSES MAYBE THEY WOULD RUN BETTER

Timp- don't know who you are but you do have a point- my stock had a very bad year at Pha, including the one I totally ate when I claimed from Vaders. But then again that was not the only one I ate last year finishing the year winning only @ 16%. Definitely a down year.
But that doesn't change the facts- maybe John is a genious. I know he is a very capable horseman. My point is that with Jane on the sidelines the show will go on. Not becuase Ed just became a better hand but because John is still running the show.
And BTW, I'll pass on the job as I like the track too much. Being ruled off for bad tests in a year or so is not my definition for gainful employment.

Tony

ralph_the_cat
02-14-2009, 10:58 PM
TONY K PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE ENVIOUS WISH YOU HAD THE JOB HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PUT IT MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR OWN HORSES MAYBE THEY WOULD RUN BETTER

Your first post was this?... wow, what garbage, I hope pace makes it your last...

Relwob Owner
02-15-2009, 02:09 AM
I've posted a possible solution before on this issue, and I'll try again.

If you disqualify the horse from its finishing position and demand reimbursement
from the owner(s) these issues could ultimately disappear, especially when the trainer is suspended.

I know this is a rough penalty to all parties, but it will not only create a level
playing field but will ultimately create a safer world for the Thooroughbred.


I will also propose a penalty that I think I have posted before----the current system stinks and allows the trainers to hand off to their "assistants" and I am sure just get the money under the table.

Why not punish the owner? That would force the owners to hold their trainers accountable. Beiong an owner myself, I would have no problem with it at all. In the crooked Mid Atlantic circuit right now, a guy like Robert Cole can have one of his trainers fail a test and just move onto another trainer. I hear so many owners almost brag how they look the other way. However, if the owner's whole operation was put in jeopardy if one of their trainer had multiple positives, it would improve things-can you think of anyone besides owners who would oppose this?

Where there is smoke there is fire and with Cole, Beattie, Wells, etc. there is an inferno

Relwob Owner
02-15-2009, 08:54 AM
Just checked NTRA...McLaughlin is currently at 27%. The stat I saw posted a few days ago had him over 30%...I guess he had a few losers lately...

Anyway, my reply was aimed at the two who claimed that anyone over 18% and anyone over 30% was obviously cheating.

Do I think McLaughlin is cheating? Absolutely not.

But I would like to hear from the guys who posted that over 18 or over 30 is an automatic black mark.


Over 18 or over 30 are obviously two different things-I have stated that over 30 should set off alarm bells and I stand by that-However, like everything, you do have to analyze it on a daily basis-If it is a trainer that is experienced, and gets good regularly, it is believable-if it is someone who comes out of nowhere and suddenly racks up huge numbers and improves huge amounts(around 44 percent win off the claim), then yes, I would suspect them of doing something strange......

timp
02-15-2009, 11:04 PM
why is it garbage? because its not kicking someone around like the rest of you want a be.O now you want to rule me off the blog .quite an interesting group .everything is drugs horse runs good drugs.ever think of checking the rulings to find out what they were for of course not i did enough for now dont want to feed you to much at one time you wont be able to take it bye for now timp

timp
02-15-2009, 11:19 PM
WHAT DID THEY DO THAT YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE BARRED FROM RACING GILL CLAIMS A LOT OF HORSES SOME FROM LEADING TRAINERS THAT ARE USED TO HAVING THEIR WAY. NOW HERE COMES SOMEONE THAT CLAIMS THAT HORSE OF THEIRS THATS RUN OUT OF LINE KEEPING THEM HONEST THEY DONT LIKE THAT GO CRYING TO RACING OFFICE LIKE LITTLE BABY GOT THEIR TOY TAKEN AWAY SO NOW MAN WHO PUTS UP MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TAKES BEST CARE OF THE HORSES CANT GET STALLS AT THESE TRACKS ARE YOU KIDDING ME THIS IS THE BIGGEST JOKE IN THE WORLD WHAT AN INJUSTICE UNBELIEVEABLE . NOW MISS VADERS WHAT CRIME DID SHE COMMIT POSSITIVES FOR TO MUCH CLEMBUTERAL OOH GOD THATS A BAD ONE GIIVE ME A BREAK MORE LATER BYE FOR NOW TIMP

timp
02-15-2009, 11:28 PM
LEVER MIND WHERE TO ENTER A HORSE THEY COULDNT EVEN PUT A VETRAP ON ONE AND SOME OF THEM ARE THE BIG PERCENTAGE TRAINERS YOU GUY S FOLLOW AROUND TIMP

PaceAdvantage
02-16-2009, 02:33 AM
Come on timp. Learn to use the shift key, will ya? Damn....

Nacumi
02-16-2009, 09:24 AM
Come on timp. Learn to use the shift key, will ya? Damn....

And some punctuation, too. My head hurts after that stream of consciousness rant all in caps...;)

jotb
02-25-2009, 08:40 AM
All of a sudden Auwater wins 5 races halfway through the month of Feb. Auwater didn't win a race in 2007 and only win 2 in 2008. He's won 67 races since 1999. If he continue's winning at this clip, I'm pretty sure he will produce more than 67 wins by year's end. What a joke!

Joe

Chalk up another 4 wins for Auwarter since Feb 14.


2-14 OMAHA BEACH- Wins by almost 8L coming off a 102 day layoff at 14-1
2-16 SECRET TIME- Wins coming back in 9 days and pays $9.00
2-16 KOURAGES KELLY- Wins stepping up from 7.5k to 12.5k and pays $8.80
2-23 TIGER DANCER- Wins coming back in 8 days at 28-1

Auwarter has 10 wins from 41 races (24%) in a month's time. Hitting the board at 49%. Not too shabby for a guy that won only 2 races in the last 2 year's.

Joe

timp
02-25-2009, 01:46 PM
Does him winning races bother you for some reason. Give him a horse to train maybe he will win a couple for you .Has some decent horses to train now so he's winning. Do you find that annoying. TIMP

cj
02-25-2009, 02:14 PM
Does him winning races bother you for some reason. Give him a horse to train maybe he will win a couple for you .Has some decent horses to train now so he's winning. Do you find that annoying. TIMP

I think it is amazing how there are all these undiscovered superior trainers out there just waiting for the right break.

Not4Love
02-25-2009, 02:44 PM
Not only Auwarter. Has anyone noticed the new guy Jevon Crumley? He is a new trainer for Gill. His horses are doing the same thing.

timp
02-26-2009, 04:53 AM
Whats that winning ?Boy i'll tell you guy's are something I could have a field day with your comment's . What is it you think these guy's are doing to these horses .Some magical potion nobody else has I guess. More to come later i'm sure. TIMP

supercap
02-26-2009, 10:18 AM
I think it is amazing how there are all these undiscovered superior trainers out there just waiting for the right break.
Just trainers waiting for the right break, no such thing as superior!

john del riccio
02-26-2009, 05:31 PM
Whats that winning ?Boy i'll tell you guy's are something I could have a field day with your comment's . What is it you think these guy's are doing to these horses .Some magical potion nobody else has I guess. More to come later i'm sure. TIMP

I think you will find that most folks here are knowledgeable about thi stype of thing. many of us are or were involved in the game from BOTH sides of the rail.
If you think that Auwater has always been a hi percentage trainer but just didnt have the stock, you are flat wrong. Mclaslin, Vaders, Autwater, Harry Lipshitz, it doesn't matter. What does matter is what is behind the scnes that you & I do not have access to. Its really as simple as that.

John

timp
02-26-2009, 06:15 PM
John what is it you think is behind the scenes. Some kind of wonder drug that only select trainers have. These guys have horses that they claimed for 25000 that go down to 7500 win easily then come back up to 15000 win easily now all you see is horse won for 7500 now 15K . This is nothing but spotting your horse.If they lose the horse they have the money to go get another one but most time they won't because guy's like you believe they have the magic potion and won't claim there horse. Got to go now TIM P

onefast99
02-26-2009, 06:28 PM
John what is it you think is behind the scenes. Some kind of wonder drug that only select trainers have. These guys have horses that they claimed for 25000 that go down to 7500 win easily then come back up to 15000 win easily now all you see is horse won for 7500 now 15K . This is nothing but spotting your horse.If they lose the horse they have the money to go get another one but most time they won't because guy's like you believe they have the magic potion and won't claim there horse. Got to go now TIM P
Race enhancers that are undetectable by the current testing procedures. Thats the answer no one wanted to post.

overthehill
02-27-2009, 07:43 AM
you guys are great. sounds like you could have made a lot of money betting on him.

On the general subject matter -I seem to recall that not much changed in a barn because of a trainer suspension. Unless they booted the trainer out of town completely which they did in new york from time to time. and then one year at the meadowlands i think there was a trainer named Diane Coven who was winning at a 30% clip and was close to leading the meet in winner. I had never heard of her before or after. My first year of betting there wa a New York trainier who had 2 or 3 horses that put together winning streaks of over 6 races each. The next year he was gone. I heard he went to califronia and was assistant trainer to a celebrated trainer there.

But then again once in awhile a barn just comes alive with really good stock and then win everything in sight. it also depends on how much stock they have to work with. When angel penna was training for phipps family. I remember being surprised reading that he had 40 2 year olds in training when he had maybe run 3 of them. He just had a lot of good stock to choose from that year.

jotb
02-27-2009, 08:28 AM
John what is it you think is behind the scenes. Some kind of wonder drug that only select trainers have. These guys have horses that they claimed for 25000 that go down to 7500 win easily then come back up to 15000 win easily now all you see is horse won for 7500 now 15K . This is nothing but spotting your horse.If they lose the horse they have the money to go get another one but most time they won't because guy's like you believe they have the magic potion and won't claim there horse. Got to go now TIM P

What is behind the scenes? You mean to say who is behind the scenes? I guess Marcos Zulueta, Happy Got Lucky Stable, Chick Ridge LLC, E and G stables, Par 3 Stables, Theodore Pagano and Bruno Mannello, Sure Shot Stables, William Hopkins & Bruno Mannello, Maltese Cross Stables, and Edie and the Bullet, all got together and decided to let Edward Auwarter train their horses. So many trainers to choose from and the best guy for the job is Auwarter. Now that Auwarter has the stock he can now get the services of jockey Frankie Pennington. The last time he rode Pennington before taking over was in 2005. Who was Jayne Vader's go to rider? I guess Auwarter can play the claiming game now that he has some owners behind him. The owners just sit back now and let Auwarter do his magic while Vader's finds another occupation until she gets her license back.

Relwob Owner
02-27-2009, 09:02 AM
Does him winning races bother you for some reason. Give him a horse to train maybe he will win a couple for you .Has some decent horses to train now so he's winning. Do you find that annoying. TIMP


The same thing that annoys him annoys me-where there is smoke, the is fire-anyone who follows racing knows that when numbers spike due to a new owner/trainer and it happens on a consistent basis, something is up----the reason people like us are bothered is because we have been doing this long enough to know something nefarious is going on-take your blinders off

timp
02-27-2009, 05:17 PM
Let's put the horses Ed was training in vaders barn and we'll see how they do.Horses win races you have slow horses no one makes them faster. Timp

proximity
02-28-2009, 03:47 AM
you have slow horses no one makes them faster. Timp

scott lake does. (met a miner)

kevin joy does. (git r done granny)

timp
02-28-2009, 06:23 AM
These horses had back class had talent to begin with .Take a maiden can't hit the board 10000 . Let's see then . Your up pretty early there. Timp

jotb
02-28-2009, 08:49 AM
scott lake does. (met a miner)

kevin joy does. (git r done granny)

The only thing Kevin Joy did for Robert Cole was put a saddle on Git r done Granny.

Joe

Relwob Owner
02-28-2009, 09:17 AM
These horses had back class had talent to begin with .Take a maiden can't hit the board 10000 . Let's see then . Your up pretty early there. Timp


You might want to tighten up your knowledge of "back class"-first, it is usually used to describe horses who have had more than 5 starts, which is Git R Done's total(only three before Cole claimed her for $7500). Next, I wouldnt call a horse running 9th and 6th in MSW races at Ctown as having "back class".......

This horse was improved 27 Beyer points off the claim-as another poster said, the trainer in that case puts a saddle on the horse so it would lead one to wonder what causd that type of improvement? Wow, that owner seems to improve his horses, regardless of the trainer.....hmmmmmmmm


People like you who are blind to this make me laugh----I can just picture you on the couch as McGuire broke the home run record, saying, "man, he must have worked so hard to get so much bigger-what a great American story of hard work"

Wake up man

JWBurnie
02-28-2009, 12:10 PM
From what I'm hearing on the backside, Cole has a hyperbaric chamber at his training facility/farm in PA. He will allow other trainers/owners to use the chamber (at a cost, I'm sure) on one condition.....if you use it, you can't run that horse against any of his stock.

JC Squared Racing
02-28-2009, 02:39 PM
As quoted earlier Jimmy knows his way around a horse!

Relwob Owner
02-28-2009, 03:33 PM
From what I'm hearing on the backside, Cole has a hyperbaric chamber at his training facility/farm in PA. He will allow other trainers/owners to use the chamber (at a cost, I'm sure) on one condition.....if you use it, you can't run that horse against any of his stock.


Ive heard that too...I think Beattie has one of her own--other high profile trainers in the mid atlantic have used it as well and some havent done too well---I have heard that condition too and always thought that if you use it, and cant run against his stock, it will be hard to find a race to be in since he has so many.

Anypone have any feedback on the chamber? I have heard the usual amount of pros and cons and have heard many good points raised about the effect on the animals

timp
02-28-2009, 04:50 PM
Do you believe in witchcraft and magic potions also? Gamblers like you when you can't handicap the race everything is fixed or doping going on.Just because you can't handicap the winner something is wrong .Got to blame someone right. Timp

JWBurnie
02-28-2009, 05:50 PM
Do you believe in witchcraft and magic potions also? Gamblers like you when you can't handicap the race everything is fixed or doping going on.Just because you can't handicap the winner something is wrong .Got to blame someone right. Timp

If witchcraft/magic potions = Balco....yes, I believe in them.
This has nothing to do with handicapping.

proximity
02-28-2009, 07:25 PM
. Your up pretty early there. Timp

actually, i had just stumbled in late. ;)

Relwob Owner
02-28-2009, 07:39 PM
Do you believe in witchcraft and magic potions also? Gamblers like you when you can't handicap the race everything is fixed or doping going on.Just because you can't handicap the winner something is wrong .Got to blame someone right. Timp


This has nothing to do with handicapping, Mr. "Back Class".....again, take off your blinders......you must have also thought nothing was strange when Bernie madoff's investments kept making money regardless of the stock market----wake up and smell the coffee.


Next time Cole or Beattie improves a horses' Beyer 20 plus points in less than two weeks, please tell me why.


By the way, I am a good handicapper and juding from your attacking emails, you are an irrational fool

Relwob Owner
02-28-2009, 08:20 PM
If witchcraft/magic potions = Balco....yes, I believe in them.
This has nothing to do with handicapping.


Ditto.....

timp
03-01-2009, 11:03 AM
My attacking emails ? I'm not the one calling people irrational fool .I attacked no one more like defended a few of these trainers that some of you are falsely accusing of doping horses. Timp

proximity
03-01-2009, 11:29 AM
.I attacked no one

you broke your attacking maiden in your very first post on this board when you attacked tony k. and all he did was tell the truth and CORRECTLY predict that the show would go on with e.a. as "trainer".

jotb
03-01-2009, 11:41 AM
My attacking emails ? I'm not the one calling people irrational fool .I attacked no one more like defended a few of these trainers that some of you are falsely accusing of doping horses. Timp

The thread was about Jane Vader's. Why did she lose her license? Who has taken over for Vader's? Are you still going to try and convince us that Auwarter is calling the shots and Vader's/McCasin are completely out of the picture? I don't know too many owners in the game that are used to winning at 25% with a certain trainer and then give their horses over to someone that wins only 7% of the time. Auwarter wins 2 races in 2 years and now wins 2 races (yesterday) in 1 day.

timp
03-01-2009, 12:00 PM
Jane Vaders suspended for series of minor incidents.None involving doping horses.No she no longer is involved in the training of the horses or their care.Ed winning races is as I said before horses win races not trainers. As far as TonyK was adressing his attack on Ed ,Vaders and John . Timp

jotb
03-01-2009, 12:53 PM
You can try and sell that to others. She did something that was ILLEGAL. Don't justify her violations by using the word MINOR.

lamboguy
03-01-2009, 01:05 PM
there was a harness guy that was suspended for 3 years using some drug called sulfoxin. the guys name is brewer. i know nothing about it, but i am told there was no test for it and the horses ran great on the stuff. my guess is that it is some type of painkiller, painkillers are never any good for the horse in long or short run. truthfully it is being cruel to the horse, the suspension in my opinion was not long enough. it should have been 30 years.

i have no idea how eddie awrwater became so good, because whenever i saw his name i would never even look at his horse. some of the horses he has won have not been jam ins, they have been step ups.

please set me straight how this guy becomes an overnight sensation! and also please tell me what he adds to this sport. how can this sport possibly expect to keep its customers with this type of inconsistent form.