View Full Version : Nicanor
cj's dad
01-28-2009, 01:30 PM
Debuts this Saturday @ Gulfstream Park.
If this is old news I apologize in advance.
xfile
01-28-2009, 01:41 PM
Debuts this Saturday @ Gulfstream Park.
If this is old news I apologize in advance.
I thought I heard the same thing on HRTV a little while a go,
cj's dad
01-28-2009, 02:04 PM
I thought I heard the same thing on HRTV a little while a go,
Bingo !!
Nacumi
01-28-2009, 02:43 PM
Gulfstream Park - January 31st, 2009 - Race 8
Estimated Local Post Time: 4:43 PM Race Type: Maiden Special Weight
Breed: Thoroughbred
Age Restriction: Three Year Old
Purse: $40,000
Distance: One Mile
Surface: Dirt Post Horse Name Age Sex Weight Jockey Name 1 Unbridled Cardinal (KY) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7694583&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Julien R. Leparoux 2 Big Flirt (FL) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7690134&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Gelding 122 Pascacio Lopez 3 Andiron (KY) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7726665&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Eibar Coa 4 Nicanor (KY) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7732815&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Edgar S. Prado 5 Warrior's Reward (KY) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7733684&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Calvin H. Borel 6 Allrightsreserved (KY) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7742324&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 John R. Velazquez 7 Boyhood Dream (FL) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7709844&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 E. T. Baird 8 Il Postino (KY) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7742329&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Cornelio H. Velasquez 9 Trust the Deputy (FL) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7714544&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Alan Garcia 10 Dubinsky (KY) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7707889&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Javier Castellano 11 Single Malt (KY) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7747853&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Rene R. Douglas 12 Audeamus (PA) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7882866&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Elvis Trujillo AE Stayonit (FL) (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqpHorseMPPByHorse.cfm?refno=7818788&sap=HPEF&BT=TB) 3 Colt 122 Eibar Coa
GlenninOhio
01-28-2009, 05:16 PM
I'd be interested in any insights on how trainers decide whether to run a first time starter short or long.
This is a different situation than many given that we're talking a one-turn mile at GP, which many view as a longer sprint rather than a route. Plus we all know the talent demonstrated by this colt's full brother.
One reason I ask is that my trainer will NEVER run a first time starter long (2 year old or 3 year old) first out.
Thanks.
Nacumi
01-28-2009, 05:57 PM
Of our three homebreds to race, all broke their maidens at a mile +: the first did it in a two-turner on the dirt, was DQ'd, then officially broke the maiden the next start on the dirt in a one-turn mile. He subsequently switched to the turf and is currently a 2-other than allowance and minor stakes horse.
His full sister broke her maiden on the turf at a mile and a 16th, but will likely go longer. The third baby, a half-brother, broke his maiden in a two-turn turf mile, after trying twice on the dirt going 3/4s and 7/8ths. He is built like a more short coupled sprinter/miler, but has lots in the tank going longer.
They're trained for the grass, and off the farm, so going longer is an advantage for them, by routine and pedigree. It's really predicated on running style and aptitude, but we've bred primarily routers.
Our best racemare (now a broodmare) broke her maiden at a mile on dirt, but flourished on the turf, winning from 5/8ths to a mile and a 16th. Her last year racing was primarily spent sprinting on the grass, but she was a very good miler based on good middle speed figures.
joanied
01-28-2009, 08:48 PM
Nacumi,
Thanks so much for posting the field....now I don't gotta look it up:jump:
Have a safe trip, Nicanor...win, loose or draw!!!
joanied
01-28-2009, 08:52 PM
Debuts this Saturday @ Gulfstream Park.
If this is old news I apologize in advance.
Hey cj's dad....we don't mind old news from an old dude;) :D
:) :) :)
FantasticDan
01-29-2009, 02:27 PM
The CBS evening news is doing a piece on Nicanor tonite towards the end of the broadcast..
http://www.equibase.com/static/entry/GP013109USA-EQB.html
Nic is the ML second choice at 4-1..
joanied
01-29-2009, 05:33 PM
The CBS evening news is doing a piece on Nicanor tonite towards the end of the broadcast..
http://www.equibase.com/static/entry/GP013109USA-EQB.html
Nic is the ML second choice at 4-1..
Fantastic Dan.... thanks you...this is well, fantastic:jump: We don't watch the network news, I woulda missed it....so I'll set it to record.
Hope it's a feel good story!!!
FantasticDan
01-30-2009, 12:14 AM
The CBS news story was fine, but had a couple odd errors.. they said Barbaro's first victory was at Gulfstream (it wasn't, of course), and then they showed video of Lentenor as a foal and gave the distinct impression that's the stage of development he was now at. Bizarre.
jognlope
01-30-2009, 11:02 AM
His odds today on equibase are 4/1 and only Dubinsky has shorter odds, 2/5
OTM Al
01-30-2009, 11:02 AM
I salivate at the potential for a skewed betting line in this one. He was made 2nd choice on the ML at only 4-1 from what I read. The PPs will be closely looked at for this one.
Nacumi
01-30-2009, 01:49 PM
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/darley_137420.pdf
Thanks to WHOBET for posting these.
After quick review, I have to say I like Frankel's horse (#3), a half-brother to the Cliff's Edge, who didn't show much in his debut on the fake stuff in SoCal, and Pat Reynolds' horse (#10.) I was a huge Toccet fan, and would like to see his get do well and be better managed than he was. ;)
This guy ran a huge BRIS number in his last start, beaten 5 at the same distance. He'll be tough.
Always fun to watch the maidens, especially at Gulfstream.
joanied
01-30-2009, 05:34 PM
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/darley_137420.pdf
Thanks to WHOBET for posting these.
After quick review, I have to say I like Frankel's horse (#3), a half-brother to the Cliff's Edge, who didn't show much in his debut on the fake stuff in SoCal, and Pat Reynolds' horse (#10.) I was a huge Toccet fan, and would like to see his get do well and be better managed than he was. ;)
This guy ran a huge BRIS number in his last start, beaten 5 at the same distance. He'll be tough.
Always fun to watch the maidens, especially at Gulfstream.
There's a few in this race to watch...I hope Nicanor wins, but I also like Bobby's horse....Andiron...he has two in this one...like the Zito horse also...and I see Wesley Ward has 2 in...they'll probably set the pace then fade...:D
point given
01-30-2009, 05:51 PM
dAt: KEESEP 2007 $180.0k (16/77) SireAvg: $119.9k StudFee:$35,00
2008-2009 391 15% 39% -0.47
1st time str 159 4% 25% -0.87
Debut >= 1m 23 4% 35% -1.79
4 % first time starters of 159, i hope he outruns his trainers pedigree. OTOH Matz has been hot the past few days, mostly on the turf though.
joanied
01-30-2009, 06:12 PM
The CBS news story was fine, but had a couple odd errors.. they said Barbaro's first victory was at Gulfstream (it wasn't, of course), and then they showed video of Lentenor as a foal and gave the distinct impression that's the stage of development he was now at. Bizarre.
I did record it (so we didn't have to watch CBS news & Katie:eek: ) and like you, FantasticDan...thought it was just an OK piece.
Yep...they got thier facts wrong, but hey, what do they care...they did not have to show Barbaro's breakdown again :mad: ...they spent too much time on rescue, which really has nada to do with Nicanor....that was Barbaro's fan club...they could do a nice story ON horse rescue...but they won't...and when I saw the video of Lentenor...why in hell did they show him as a baby (IF that even WAS Lentenor) It was a story about Nicanor...and they showed maybe 10 seconds worth of him.
My review::ThmbDown:
joanied
01-30-2009, 06:14 PM
Point Given....
Hope you are right...wouldn't be surprised if Matz tells Prado not to worry about a win...
Nacumi
01-31-2009, 05:25 PM
Let's hope he didn't bleed, or scope full of mucous. By the way he went and the way was eased, I hope they try him on the grass next time. :(
Grits
01-31-2009, 06:15 PM
http://racing.bloodhorse.com/article/49033.htm
SmartyJ
01-31-2009, 06:28 PM
Doesn't sound serious, hope for the best.
FantasticDan
01-31-2009, 06:44 PM
Given the post race report, I consider the race a toss for him, and also hope we see him on the grass next time out.
joanied
01-31-2009, 07:02 PM
Looks like Nicanor's first time out didn't go well...he got into trouble at the break, grabbed a quarter and was wrapped up. Hope this sisn't a bad omen...he sure did look good when he made that move up to fifth place...at least he got some education about being between horses...and his only move did look awful good...I beleive he's a talented colt....hope the injury heals fast and there are no more set backs for him.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/49033/nicanor-injured-slightly-in-debut
Grits
01-31-2009, 07:08 PM
The very least CBS Evening News could've done was send someone to cover the colt's race, WHO KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT THE SPORT.
"He hurt his foot" according to the reporter, "he finished tenth. Not today."
But damn, even Matz when questioned could've identified and explained "a quarter.":faint:
A reporter suffering inept never goes over well.
joanied
01-31-2009, 07:24 PM
The very least CBS Evening News could've done was send someone to cover the colt's race, WHO KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT THE SPORT.
"He hurt his foot" according to the reporter, "he finished tenth. Not today."
But damn, even Matz when questioned could've identified and explained "a quarter.":faint:
A reporter suffering inept never goes over well.
Grits....what do you expect from:ThmbDown: CBS...or the other networks for that matter... I didn't see the report, but I am not surprised after that rather stupid peice they had on Nicanor the other night.
I agree that Matz should have explained the injury...but maybe he was simply in a slight state of shock that Nicanor got hurt in his first start and was sorta not thinking at the time they interviewed him...
but CBS, NBC and ABC combined do not give a s**t about horse racing.
DeltaLover
02-01-2009, 07:55 AM
EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES
The FACT is that the bettors lost thousands of dollars betting in a very MEDIOCRE at least horse that was followed by the hype of a great racehorse cultivated by his connections with absolutely NO RESPECT to the average horse player.
In this game NOBODY seems to realize that the BOSS is the bettor, who fuels it with his hard earned buck (that nobody seems to care about) creating super trainers , jockeys owners who are THINKING DAY AND NIGHT how to MILK HIM MORE AND MORE AND MORE with any possible way, like DRUGS, FALSE NEWS, FIXED RACES, INCREASED TAKEOUTS and so many other things...
Grits
02-01-2009, 08:40 AM
Your 9th post. Come back when you've managed to read some of the threads here at the site.
No one, I'm sure not a soul here, told you to bet this horse. If you followed the hype, betting a colt's first time start--I don't care if his name was Jesus--that is YOUR fault. Not anyone elses. If you keyed him seven ways from Sunday in every gimmick available, again, YOUR ignorance, not anyone elses.
And nothing was cultivated by his connections. They didn't tell you their horse was the second coming either. Quite the contrary, actually. They know the chances on that one.
Come back when you can be constructive rather than destructive.
EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES
The FACT is that the bettors lost thousands of dollars betting in a very MEDIOCRE at least horse that was followed by the hype of a great racehorse cultivated by his connections with absolutely NO RESPECT to the average horse player.
In this game NOBODY seems to realize that the BOSS is the bettor, who fuels it with his hard earned buck (that nobody seems to care about) creating super trainers , jockeys owners who are THINKING DAY AND NIGHT how to MILK HIM MORE AND MORE AND MORE with any possible way, like DRUGS, FALSE NEWS, FIXED RACES, INCREASED TAKEOUTS and so many other things...
098poi
02-01-2009, 08:58 AM
Grits,
Although not quite as harsh I had the same feeling as you when reading that post. Justified or not the Barbaro story caught fire with the public much like the death of Princess Diana. It is only natural that there would be much interest in in Barbaro's siblings. I can only imagine that Nicanor's connections have been bombarded with interest and questions for a long time now. I can't blame them for any hype. I wish Nicanor the best on his next time out!
Robert Fischer
02-01-2009, 09:03 AM
EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES
The FACT is that the bettors lost thousands of dollars betting in a very MEDIOCRE at least horse that was followed by the hype of a great racehorse cultivated by his connections with absolutely NO RESPECT to the average horse player.
In this game NOBODY seems to realize that the BOSS is the bettor, who fuels it with his hard earned buck (that nobody seems to care about) creating super trainers , jockeys owners who are THINKING DAY AND NIGHT how to MILK HIM MORE AND MORE AND MORE with any possible way, like DRUGS, FALSE NEWS, FIXED RACES, INCREASED TAKEOUTS and so many other things...
It's a fine line.
One of the hardest things about playing the horses is dealing with reality.
Everybody wants to escape reality. Or at least numb the pain / blur the lines a little, and take the edge off. Horse racing can be a great escape. Some horseplayers play and gamble for the high.
But horseplaying is really about reality. You have to have an accurate understanding of the reality of the situation. This is horseplaying in a nutshell. You may be able to immerse yourself into the game, and that provides an escape, but within the game - reality. Dealing with reality is a psychological battle, and the enviornment is extremely challenging - greed , stress, nervousness,fear, excitement and in this case emotional attraction to a horse.
The "average bettor" SHOULD be treated well, I agree. These guys that still come to the track or OTB should be getting free parking, free coffee, COMPS, a small rebate, a flier to come back again, and a smile.
I was at the Monmouth Stakes for the specially written "Big Brown turf race", and a bunch of fans came to the track that wouldn't normally come out to Monmouth Park. What an opportunity! However there was no free parking / admission passes being handed out for Next Saturday, no attempt to bring these new customers BACK AGAIN.
Other than comps and a smile there isn't anything anyone can really do for the "average bettor".
DeltaLover
02-01-2009, 09:19 AM
No one, I'm sure not a soul here, told you to bet this horse.
I don't think that I mention anywhere in my post that some 'soul' here told me to bet the horse, in contrary I am referring to his connections and implicitly to the racing press that didn't inform bettors any better...
YOUR ignorance, not anyone elses.
1) Please try to be more polite.
2) The problem relays NOT IN MY PERSONAL IGNORANCE (which can very well be the case) but (by your standards) in the IGNORANCE OF THE BETTING PUBLIC who bet this mediocre horse as if he was the second coming of his big brother. So implicitly you are accusing for ignorance the best handicapper in this game, the consensus of the public opinion
And nothing was cultivated by his connections
I will not agree with that statement, since both Matz and Prado although the certainly knew their horse did not belong in that company, was very green and immature were very optimistic about its chances creating a false favorite, although they knew very well that he would have become the heavy favorite of the race.
This is exactly what is wrong in this situation! The totally wrong information spread about this horse's condition that resulted in a huge fiasco and loss of thousand dollars from the uninformed bettor.
Please make your comparisons with the similar industry of Stock Market and think of would have happened in a similar case....
Grits
02-01-2009, 09:36 AM
Delta, not anything on four legs in this sport is a LOCK, and if you and others assumed such, again, that was your mistake.
If you choose to rely on what comes out of a trainer and a jockey's mouth, rather than looking closely at every entry in the race, again, your mistake.
This horse was a story, Delta. He is part of an ongoing story of a racehorse who died. That's all, at this point, Nicanor is. A sibling to a famous racehorse.
The stock market--I'm aware of those problems already, but a good CFA wouldn't have made the same mistake in the market that some made in this particular racehorse.
098, I wish any and every horse (and his connections) the best in this game every time they step on a racetrack. Of course, I didn't feel any different about Nicanor. I didn't anticipate his winning, not at all. I only hoped for him to get a good and safe trip first out.
I don't believe I was terribly harsh. But yes, I was angered that someone would come in, sight unseen, and start railing and blaming others for their own call.
And Robert, I'm sorry, but I don't feel this horse was the blame for another screed on the product.
I'm tired of whining, and never ending complaining. Never in my life, have I seen folks whine so much. More of the same old, same old, but this time let's blame one horse.
Next year, maybe, attend the Super Bowl. Take up poker . . . whatever.
Give up horseracing if you are so desperate you have to find fault and blame in one horse (and base your conclusions about the sport on this one) when thousands step on racetracks across North America everyday.
I'm sorry, but THIS is wrong. One has to look at every entry in a horse race.
kenwoodallpromos
02-01-2009, 09:42 AM
"He broke really fast and unfortunately grabbed his left quarter.
Nicanor stumbled at the start and was bumped."
Sounds like Barbaro's first fewe races unfortunately.
Bubba X
02-01-2009, 09:43 AM
I don't think that I mention anywhere in my post that some 'soul' here told me to bet the horse, in contrary I am referring to his connections and implicitly to the racing press that didn't inform bettors any better...
1) Please try to be more polite.
2) The problem relays NOT IN MY PERSONAL IGNORANCE (which can very well be the case) but (by your standards) in the IGNORANCE OF THE BETTING PUBLIC who bet this mediocre horse as if he was the second coming of his big brother. So implicitly you are accusing for ignorance the best handicapper in this game, the consensus of the public opinion
I will not agree with that statement, since both Matz and Prado although the certainly knew their horse did not belong in that company, was very green and immature were very optimistic about its chances creating a false favorite, although they knew very well that he would have become the heavy favorite of the race.
This is exactly what is wrong in this situation! The totally wrong information spread about this horse's condition that resulted in a huge fiasco and loss of thousand dollars from the uninformed bettor.
Please make your comparisons with the similar industry of Stock Market and think of would have happened in a similar case....
This is the essence of posting at a high level. I am rapting for more.
Bubba X
02-01-2009, 09:45 AM
"He broke really fast and unfortunately grabbed his left quarter.
Nicanor stumbled at the start and was bumped."
Sounds like Barbaro's first fewe races unfortunately.
How so?
Pace Cap'n
02-01-2009, 10:15 AM
This is the essence of posting at a high level. I am rapting for more.
A special Eclipse award to Bubba for most creative gerund.
joanied
02-01-2009, 10:28 AM
EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES
The FACT is that the bettors lost thousands of dollars betting in a very MEDIOCRE at least horse that was followed by the hype of a great racehorse cultivated by his connections with absolutely NO RESPECT to the average horse player.
In this game NOBODY seems to realize that the BOSS is the bettor, who fuels it with his hard earned buck (that nobody seems to care about) creating super trainers , jockeys owners who are THINKING DAY AND NIGHT how to MILK HIM MORE AND MORE AND MORE with any possible way, like DRUGS, FALSE NEWS, FIXED RACES, INCREASED TAKEOUTS and so many other things...
Can't add too much about your post, DeltaLover...the replies were right on. You sure seem a bitter person and look to blame others for your own actions.
Matz never said Nicanor would run a great race, in fact, said he hoped Nicanor could be as good as Barbaro was...and Prado only said the colt was working great and felt good.
Everyone that follows racing, especially the story of Barbaro, knew that Nicanor was going to get a lot of action at the windows, and that the money bet on him was pretty much all sentimental money. And anyone that has half a brain, knows you never know what a first time starter will do.
Man...if ya can't stand the heat....get out of the kitchen!!!!
:faint:
WinterTriangle
02-01-2009, 12:10 PM
What does "a grabbed quarter" injury look like?
Can anyone describe it to me or are there photos of what this kind of injury looks like?
David-LV
02-01-2009, 12:30 PM
EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES
The FACT is that the bettors lost thousands of dollars betting in a very MEDIOCRE at least horse that was followed by the hype of a great racehorse cultivated by his connections with absolutely NO RESPECT to the average horse player.
In this game NOBODY seems to realize that the BOSS is the bettor, who fuels it with his hard earned buck (that nobody seems to care about) creating super trainers , jockeys owners who are THINKING DAY AND NIGHT how to MILK HIM MORE AND MORE AND MORE with any possible way, like DRUGS, FALSE NEWS, FIXED RACES, INCREASED TAKEOUTS and so many other things...
Agreed,
Why is it every time a much publicized horse like Nicanor runs in the toliet the powers that be always come up with some kind of Mickey Mouse excuse.
Maybe the horse really is not that good, remember The Green Monkey.
If something really happened at the gate don't you think that E. Prado would have pulled up the horse?
Food for thought, just my opinion. http://www.homebased2.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
_______
David
PaceAdvantage
02-01-2009, 01:03 PM
EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES
The FACT is that the bettors lost thousands of dollars betting in a very MEDIOCRE at least horse that was followed by the hype of a great racehorse cultivated by his connections with absolutely NO RESPECT to the average horse player.
In this game NOBODY seems to realize that the BOSS is the bettor, who fuels it with his hard earned buck (that nobody seems to care about) creating super trainers , jockeys owners who are THINKING DAY AND NIGHT how to MILK HIM MORE AND MORE AND MORE with any possible way, like DRUGS, FALSE NEWS, FIXED RACES, INCREASED TAKEOUTS and so many other things...I guess you don't pay much attention to the morning line. For such "great racehorse hype," how come he was 4-1 in the morning line?
It's not like there was a bunch of superstars in the race. The ML favorite was 7/2.
Nicanor was 8/5 or so at one point, but drifted up at the end to close at 2-1 I believe. You act as if he went off at 3/5 and caused a vicious minus show pool.
JustRalph
02-01-2009, 04:35 PM
I believe the Grabbed a quarter claim. He didn't look comfortable the whole trip........held his head high etc........
joanied
02-01-2009, 05:01 PM
I believe the Grabbed a quarter claim. He didn't look comfortable the whole trip........held his head high etc........
me too, Just Ralph...once his rider felt something not right...he began to wrap up...no way Matz would make a false claim or try to find an excuse anyway....the man has too much class. Hope it's not a major issue and heals fast.
JustRalph
02-01-2009, 05:05 PM
I learned a lesson at Keeneland last year about Matz
If he is at the window the race before one of his horses is running............
Bet the Horse............ :bang: :bang: I think he is a guy who knows when he is going to win
Just a little FYI
DeltaLover
02-01-2009, 06:07 PM
Nicanor was 8/5 or so at one point, but drifted up at the end to close at 2-1 I believe. You act as if he went off at 3/5 and caused a vicious minus show pool.
Actually he opened at 2-5 and closed to 9-5
PaceAdvantage
02-01-2009, 06:59 PM
As they were going into the gate, he was 2-1. If he settled at 9/5, not much difference. You still act as if this was some 1/10 favorite who ran last (like Big Brown).
jognlope
02-01-2009, 07:20 PM
its when the back hoof clips the front hoof and scrapes off tissue
joanied
02-02-2009, 10:26 AM
I learned a lesson at Keeneland last year about Matz
If he is at the window the race before one of his horses is running............
Bet the Horse............ :bang: :bang: I think he is a guy who knows when he is going to win
Just a little FYI
I think maybe Matz didn't visit the windows before this one:)
Robert Fischer
02-02-2009, 11:35 AM
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7630/lentanorvn7.jpg
lentanor looks more like a nice turf horse
WinterTriangle
02-02-2009, 11:48 AM
its when the back hoof clips the front hoof and scrapes off tissue
Thanks, jognlope.
Isn't a grabbed quarter the same injury Big Brown sustained (when he "avoided" running against Curlin in the Breeder's Cup?) A big 3-4 inch gash.
I guess I'm also trying to compare it, in my mind, to the kind of hoof injuries (quarter crack / wall separation both front hoofs) that Big Brown ran on, when he was winning his early races.
Theory: Sentiment and like/dislike for a horse/trainer seems to play a part in how "we" perceive whether a horse should be "excused" or not.... for a bad performance on the track?
jognlope
02-02-2009, 12:03 PM
Wall separation is just that. My horse had that and an abscess that took up half of his hoof and recovered. Abscesses can cause wall separation, but they are easy to treat, just drain. Nice vet bill that was.
OTM Al
02-02-2009, 02:33 PM
lentanor looks more like a nice turf horse
Thought Nic kinda looked a little turfy as well when I say him in the paddock. That longish lean look. Of course he is still fairly young, so that could change. Looked beautiful too, very well turned out, but I was betting against him with both hands. Had the second place finisher, but alas, not the first....
Robert Fischer
02-02-2009, 03:28 PM
Thought Nic kinda looked a little turfy as well when I say him in the paddock. That longish lean look. Of course he is still fairly young, so that could change. Looked beautiful too, very well turned out, but I was betting against him with both hands. Had the second place finisher, but alas, not the first....
Agreed. He did look nice although not the dominant type of animal barbaro was, and should be decent on turf.
I loved the 11 ( 44-1 horse who finished 3rd), and i didn't even play the trifecta or the dime super. free $9,000 lesson on wagering :(
Robert Fischer
02-02-2009, 08:23 PM
free $9,000 lesson on wagering
wow looked at it again, and that tri was 12k for a DOLLAR.
Not4Love
02-02-2009, 08:32 PM
Depends on the horse, and how he's training. Breeding comes into play also. I would expect a Carson City, or Elusive Quality to want to sprint, but a Dynaformer, or A.P.Indy can be expected to go long. The mare's pedigree has a great bearing on this too.
Given the different circumstances, such as the conformation, pedigree, and how the horse is training I would not hesitate to start one long first out.
Bill Mott is especially good at this.
I'm a trainer, and one of the many things I've learned is not to say no to anything. I wouldn't want to prevent a horse from showing his best, and having a good experience in his first race, just because a run of a mile or more doesn't fit the rules in the training program.
OTM Al
02-02-2009, 08:41 PM
wow looked at it again, and that tri was 12k for a DOLLAR.
I couldn't figure out how to go deep inside the race so I played the pick 3. Had 5 in leg 1, 6 in leg 2 (not Nic) and 3 in the Donn and couldn't get a single one of them home, though I did have the 2nd placers in the first 2 legs. Don't wish to even talk about the Donn....I knew there was good money there, but just couldn't find it. My success at GP this year has been exclusively on the green. Not going to get value in a succession of races like that again til derby day.
Gorgeous George
02-04-2009, 05:41 AM
this is another case of people hyping up a horse because of its breeding. Nicanor will probaly be another mediocre horse that might win the odd race, being barbaro's brother doesnt automatically mean that he is special. There are numerous examples of special horses who have brothers that dont sparkle.
PaceAdvantage
02-04-2009, 07:27 AM
Don't be such a killjoy man...life is short!
joanied
02-04-2009, 10:24 AM
Don't be such a killjoy man...life is short!
I agree:ThmbUp: Hey Gorgeous George...we are all aware of the list of siblings that don't measure up...who cares...it's FUN following Nicanor and it's good for racing...don't be such a party-pooper...enjoy the ride:jump:
WinterTriangle
02-04-2009, 10:59 AM
There are numerous examples of special horses who have brothers that dont sparkle.
But it's fun to watch 'em grow... young horses often improve overnight and its THRILLING to watch that.
Mr. Hot Stuff, (Tiznow) and 1/2 to Colonel John, finally got the job done this week at SA R5. Paid $20 for the win :jump: (ran the quarter in :23-2/5, making up six+ lengths in the stretch, and galloped out lengths ahead.)
Lost his first 4 starts, then Harty notices the horse has a change in attitude, in the barn. "He became confident, and would stand at the front of the stall," Harty said.
So, he throws Mr Hot Stuff into a race 2 weeks after another loss----and voila!:jump:
I would LOVE to see the moment, if it happens, that Nicanor becomes "full of himself". He's not there yet. Might never be, but if it happens, totally worth the wait. :)
jognlope
02-04-2009, 12:59 PM
Even Forego was a late bloomer....
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